[Troll]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

And if you are criticised for unsportsmanlike behavior throughout your whole carrier, it wouldn't harm to once in a while let others pass fairly when there isn't even a chance to keep them behind. And the main competitor is out already and those guys are no threat in the championship anyway.

I agree on almost all points except the last. If you let people pass you when you're racing, then you tend to finish near the back. You fight within the rules which is what he did this time. The rest was stupid and in fairness, he shouldn't have got a point out of the race.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Troll

If you let people pass you when you're racing, then you tend to finish near the back.

If he had let Heidfeld pass, he would have finished fourth. Like this he didn't finish at all. Sometimes it's smarter to recede.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

If he had let Heidfeld pass, he would have finished fourth. Like this he didn't finish at all. Sometimes it's smarter to recede.

True but I think that once he'd decided not to take the slicks he was committed to making it as difficult as possible for people to pass him. The real mistake was not taking slicks.

[Otto Benz]

This weekend made Michael look like a retard. Or like his brother.

X-D

So hold on, according even to you, Alonso's behaviour in qualifying is comparable with that of Schumacher in the season finisher in 1997

I am saying that if you complain about Alonso sanction, what kind of useful sanction got Michael in 1997? It was just to say he was sanctioned. Even ferrari keep Michael points.

Alonso had at least 3 goes at running the other guy off. In any event, Schumacher got disqualified from the World Championship for what he did and Alonso only got pushed back a few places. And yet somehow you claim that the FIA are biased against Ferrari? The mind boggles!

He was disqualified but he lose what whit that? If you want to make an accurate comparison, I can't find any debris of the RedBull car on track, right?! Rewach several Schu incidents... not necessary those fighting for the championship, as it seems to be allowed to crash for that, just 'race incidents' like sending HHF to the wall at Canada and so.. when Schu went with it just because 'I haven't seen him on the mirrors'.

[Troll]

The headline on News24 is "Renault blame Alonso's damaged nut." That's definitely his problem.

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/N...979795,00.html

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by nbnz

MS had to go into the chicane or get hit by De La Rosa.

so Pedro is the culprit now… didn’t even you think about it or is it plain red-mode speech?, NRN, Michael has no one to blame but himself.

BTW, Someone who posts regularly in this thread owes Kimi an apology.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by angelmb

so Pedro is the culprit now… didn’t even you think about it or is it plain red-mode speech?, NRN, Michael has no one to blame but himself.

BTW, Someone who posts regularly in this thread owes Kimi an apology.

Kimi is a great driver. I mean that's obvious - all the great drivers rear end backmarkers in the rain.

BTW, I don't think anyone was implying that De la Rosa was the culprit; just that there wasn't space for two cars through the chicane and Schumacher was ahead before so he didn't have to concede after.

[nbnz]

Originally Posted by angelmb

so Pedro is the culprit now… didn’t even you think about it or is it plain red-mode speech?, NRN, Michael has no one to blame but himself.

Originally Posted by Troll

BTW, I don't think anyone was implying that De la Rosa was the culprit; just that there wasn't space for two cars through the chicane and Schumacher was ahead before so he didn't have to concede after.

Troll is exactly correct in his interpretation of my comment. And no, I don't have "red-mode speech", if you saw above I have already said my opinion that MS was stupid for not changing tyres earlier, he bought the problems on himself, but in my view he was within his rights to maintain his position. And I would say the same if MS was the chaser.

[Otto Benz]

MS had to go into the chicane or get hit by De La Rosa

As you say it, it looks like DLR overtaking move was dangerous because the only way for MS to avoid DLR was going through the chicane. And that wasn't the case!! There were other options like behave as other drivers behave when they are overtaked. But overtaking him .. with Schumi, that is a do or die. He thinks that no-one can or has the rights to overtake him.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

As you say it, it looks like DLR overtaking move was dangerous because the only way for MS to avoid DLR was going through the chicane. And that wasn't the case!! There were other options like behave as other drivers behave when they are overtaked. But overtaking him .. with Schumi, that is a do or die. He thinks that no-one can or has the rights to overtake him.

Since there wasn't enough room for two cars through the chicane and Schumacher was ahead at the entrance to the chicane, the chicane belonged to Schumacher. He had only two options at that point: 1) Turn in and take DLR and himself out or 2) Stop the car completely which was probably not possible without going through the chicane anyway.

Schumacher was ahead going into the chicane so he was entitled to be ahead after the chicane. Point final and if it wasn't, Schumacher would have been sanctioned by the stewards.

BTW, wasn't it interesting how the McLaren got smoked lap after lap in the drag down the main straight? Even with the slipstream effect, it was slower in a straight line and braking.

[Otto Benz]

Originally Posted by Troll

Since there wasn't enough room for two cars through the chicane and Schumacher was ahead at the entrance to the chicane, the chicane belonged to Schumacher. He had only two options at that point: 1) Turn in and take DLR and himself out or 2) Stop the car completely which was probably not possible without going through the chicane anyway

Stop the car completely? As you wrote, he smoked the 'Pedro's McLaren' under braking, so it was possible for him to do a superduper braking , or at least slow the car enough to don't go through the chicane. But that means to suffer a fine overtaking and must embarrass him. So going through the chicane was at least, a overtaking in disguise.


Yet another Nick's overtaking try on Schumacher.


Define to be ahead at the 'entrance of the chicane' :-o
Lap 6/60





Only God knows that a miracle saved us from a dismal carnage !!

Originally Posted by Troll

BTW, wasn't it interesting how the McLaren got smoked lap after lap in the drag down the main straight? Even with the slipstream effect, it was slower in a straight line and braking

But DLR never used the slipstream effect in all the length of the straight. He was side by side on the finish line already, or even early. As soon as he went to Schumi side, it was clear that the resistence to the air was bigger than in the Ferrari. In equal cars the top speed is relative to the front and mostly rear wings and how much you aero load them because the other factors trend to be identical. As you could see Pedro (as Juan Pablo) uses the latest wings while Kimi prefers the old wings because the way the front wing handles the front of the car. On the speed trap Kimi was always faster than DLR, and sometimes up to 10km/h faster. Because the wings can't flex again, right?


I mean ... NOT that kind of flex!!



Different wings and loads, different top speeds

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

Define to be ahead at the 'entrance of the chicane' :-o

Pity those pictures stop there so that it's impossible to put them in context. Who knows where the cars were relative to each other at the actual chicane. The view I saw was from the front and Schumacher seemed to be ahead. That's the way the French commentators (who are not Schumi fans) called it.

As for the wing debate, I'm not that interested in McLaren insider info. I just thought it was interesting that they were so much slower than the Ferrari despite the grip advantage.

[Otto Benz]

Originally Posted by News

Niki Lauda says Robert Kubica could have easily avoided his disqualification from the Hungarian Grand Prix and kept the two points he looked set to win on his Grand Prix debut.

Lauda claims that Kubica should have worked harder at the end of the race to try to pick up as much rubber and gravel on his tyres to avoid being underweight.

"It was a rookie's mistake. You need to try and pick up lots of rubber and gravel in the final stages of the race to avoid having an underweight car. However, he was focusing on getting the car home in seventh and forgot about this procedure."

Read it as: a car is running underweight on several stages of the race and the FIA hasn’t a procedure to fix/catch this.

[TETENAL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzzBgKaUB-s

[Troll]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzzBgKaUB-s

Well there you go Otto. Clear as daylight. Not only does that video show that Schumacher was ahead but it shows that he couldn't go through the chicane without causing an accident because De la Rosa left the braking too late and went wide. No debate on that one - according to the rules, Schumacher was entitled to stay ahead. Which is why he wasn't punished.

PS I don't know what those photos are that you posted but clearly they are not of the same incident. At no point was the McLaren ahead.

[Otto Benz]

Originally Posted by Tetenal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzzBgKaUB-s

Thanks Tetenal but sadly this is all I can see:


I find MacOSX unimpressive ..

Originally Posted by Troll

according to the rules, Schumacher was entitled to stay ahead

Please could you post the full rule ?

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Troll

…according to the rules, Schumacher was entitled to stay ahead…

That is what I don't get… is there such a rule that lets the drive in front to behave however he likes just to stay ahead the guys behind him?… I mean, a driver has a limit to change lines to avoid an overtake, it is something that have been spoken until dead at drivers meetings, so how the hell is gonna be a driver able (legally speaking of course) to just jump a chicane under any pretext when all he was really looking for is to avoid an overtake action?. It is a given that getting a pole is great, but there is a long way until a ''you are ahead therefore you are entitled to stay ahed at any cost' rule.

[angelmb]

Oh, BTW, youtube and the alikes suck BIG TIME, if that is what they like to call the Web 2.0 thing we are all doomed…

[Otto Benz]

By that you don't need to slow at all, cut the chicane and go ahead because you were ahead. We have seen countless actions i.e at Gilles Villeneuve where a driver cut the chicane and back off and let the other pass, despite being in front all the time. And we have seen two drivers cutting the chicane too..

DC: "Should do I allow Rubens pass?"
Pits: "No! He also cut the chicane!"

[Otto Benz]

Originally Posted by Troll

Not only does that video show that Schumacher was ahead but it shows that he couldn't go through the chicane without causing an accident because De la Rosa left the braking too late and went wide.

I disagree. To brake late is a typical resource to overtake, right? Too late? Because the overtaken doesn't want to concede any inch more than a Mac Plus has. And of course, DLR went through the chicane without any problem. And I can't remember that DLR tyres smoked at any time on late braking on the chicane. It wasn't muscle overtaking at all!

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Oh, BTW, youtube and the alikes suck BIG TIME, if that is what they like to call the Web 2.0 thing we are all doomed…

It may suck, but less so than OS 9. There might be a lot of crap on it that never should be shown in public, but without it, we would never have a chance to objectively review and discuss this scene.

I'm a really big fan of Michael Schumacher. And as such I say that I don't care about the rules. He should have let De La Rosa pass, because there wasn't the slightest chance that he would pass anyway (and he did so just a lap later). At least just to avoid this discussion. And I'm really really angry that they didn't switch to slicks. That cost him valuable points against Alonso.
I don't know whether Michael loses clear thinking during race action. Judging from his brother he might well (although Ralf seems to lack clear thinking all the time). But I absolutely expect clear thinking from Brawn and Todt all the time. When your driver is losing >4 seconds per lap with 12 laps to go, and he's had been driving his wing off already, then your going to save points be pitting and switching to slicks for god's sake! You would expect the Spaniard and the Italian to lose their temper, not the German and the Briton.
If last week's performance would be an indicator, then Ferrari doesn't deserve the driver's title. I hope Michael pulls it through anyway. And then ends his career. I'm sick of his lame excuses. As a fan.

[Otto Benz]

It may suck, but less so than OS 9

There was one time when Mac users were proud of him. Anyway I don't want a internet-driven computer experience. We'll become all utter fools.

And I'm really really angry that they didn't switch to slicks. That cost him valuable points against Alonso.

Just figure Alonso didn't DNF .. It'll be looking like 2005. Closing and then losing it again. Even Alonso had several bad races to help Schumi closing! Kimi didn't enjoy that luxuries.

If last week's performance would be an indicator..

I don't think this weekend is an indicator. I think that Bridgesone still has the advantage. This weekend Michelin just had the best of the 'wrong' tyres. Or is Jenson going to win the next one? :-/

then Ferrari doesn't deserve the driver's title.

I understand what you mean but that is a funny sentence X-D

I hope Michael pulls it through anyway. And then ends his career. I'm sick of his lame excuses. As a fan.

But I can't see a reason for him to leave. Well, probably one reason. As the never ending Kimi's rumor says he'll going to Ferrari, I don't know if Michael could be worried or not. In theory Kimi was promised equal treatment to Schumi, but in practice the Ferrari gang has no practice to do that since more than 12 years ago. All on that scuderia was made around him and they'll support him at fullest. After all, Kimi'd be driving a car that has zero input from him. Of course what should worry Schumi is Massa running that 'close' to him, I am sure then that Kimi'd destroy him. As plain as that. And that, I fear, is a luxury that Michael doesn't want to feel.

But one week we heard that Ross was going a one sabatical year, then he wasn't. Todt was going to say his decision late. The drivers line-up was going public at Monza, then it wasn't... I am sure that Luca di Montezemollo knows that M. Schumacher is not the future of ferrari.

Don't understand that I believe any of these rumors. For me is all rubbish journalism with some sources as reliable as Kimi's dog. Last week there was an exclusive Kimi interview... that was from 2004 !!

Seems that Schumi father agrees

Originally Posted by on the news..

Michael Schumacher's father, Rolf Schumacher, believes his son will continue for another year. "He (Michael) has not decided yet if he will quit or not. My feeling tells me he will continue, but I cannot speak for Michael. He has to decide it completely on his own

Bonus !!

First Jenson win, James Allen live!! Warning, dangerous levels of disturbing noise!!!!
http://www.antisocialists.com/pub/de...ames_allen.mp3

[Spliff]

I used to lilke Villeneuve back when he was still rookie-fresh, but these days he seems as if he's gone off his meds. Maybe his claims about Schumacher are true, but his whining about it smacks of sour grapes. Let the sports journalists expose the lies. Villeneuve needs to focus solely on restoring his racing abilities.

Villeneuve slates Schumi 'lies'

BBC SPORT
Villeneuve slates Schumi 'lies'
Jacques Villeneuve has accused Michael Schumacher of a series of dirty tricks and lying to fans and fellow drivers.

The ex-champion said Schumacher would "never" attain the hero status of other great drivers such as Ayrton Senna and thought he was "bigger than the sport".

"Michael isn't a great champion because he's played too many dirty tricks and isn't a great human being," Villeneuve said in a scathing personal attack.

Villeneuve claimed Schumacher would be quickly forgotten when he retired.

The Canadian has had a cool relationship with Schumacher since the German tried to drive his rival off the track while they were disputing the world championship in 1997.

That collision, in which Schumacher came off the worse, was just one a series of incidents highlighted by Villeneuve as examples of the seven-time champion's lack of "class" and "integrity".

In an interview to be published next week in F1 Racing magazine, Villeneuve said: "I think the problem is that you don't ever see his true personality.

"He's a racer - but a pure racer, nothing but a racer and, because of that, I think the day he hangs up his helmet people will just forget him.

"Senna, by contrast, will never be forgotten. Some of that is the James Dean factor, of course, because he was killed in action at a young age, but not all of it.

"I don't even think Michael will live on in people's memories as strong or as long as [Alain] Prost has - certainly not as strong or as long as [Nigel] Mansell has.

"Those people attained a hero status that Michael never has and never will."

Villeneve said Schumacher displayed his true character in the controversial incident in qualifying at Monaco this year, when he deliberately parked his car to prevent title rival Fernando Alonso beating his qualifying time.

"Senna played dirty tricks too but he did it with more class, more integrity.

"When he took Prost out [in the Japanese Grand Prix] at Suzuka in 1990, he said he was going to do it before the race," said Villeneuve, who is expected to retire from F1 following BMW Sauber's decision to drop him last month.

"So, unlike Michael, who ridiculously insisted he was innocent at Monaco this year, Senna said, 'Yes, I did it. But I told you before the race that I was going to do it.'

"That's very different from what Michael did at Monaco and Jerez [in 1997] and Adelaide [in 1994 where he collided controversially with Damon Hill].

"Senna wasn't lying to the fans. Michael was. And the sad thing is that, of course, the fans accept it - they swear black is white, in fact - just so that they can go on respecting the sport they love. And Michael takes advantage of that loyalty."

Villeneuve was also infuriated by Schumacher's behaviour when the F1 drivers discussed the Monaco incident at a Grand Prix Drivers' Association meeting at the British Grand Prix.

"He lies not only to fans but to his fellow drivers, too," said Villeneuve.

"At the GPDA meeting at Silverstone he lied to us and he didn't even have the decency to appear embarrassed about it. He just stared in our eyes and lied.

"And we all knew we were being lied to but very few of us bothered to say anything.

"It's quite sad, really - because the reason Michael did what he did is that he thinks he's better than the rest of us.

"He thinks he's bigger than the sport, too, but he isn't. And when he retires, and no-one really remembers him, that will become clear."
Story from BBC SPORT:
BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula One | Villeneuve slates Schumi 'lies'

Published: 2006/08/18 07:46:18 GMT
© BBC MMVI

[ajprice]

Originally Posted by Spliff

Villeneuve needs to focus solely on restoring his racing abilities.

Or on his music career...

Villenueve's Myspace page

[Troll]

I couldn't be bothered to look for the rule. I was involved in motor racing a few years back though and 2 rules that always applied - 1) The car that is doing the overtaking must concede the racing line if it is not in front. 2) If you gained an advantage by cutting the corner, you have to concede position - ONLY if you gained an advantage. The only time you ever have to give way is when you're being lapped.

Schumacher was ALWAYS ahead. Therefore, the line through the chicane belonged to him. DLR was obliged to concede. It was up to him to move out of the way. DLR had overdone the braking though and he was so overcommitted that he didn't even manage to stay on the racing line that he was supposed to concede. He was in the wrong on both counts. Schumacher cut the corner to avoid a collision but was in exactly the same position after the corner as he was before - in front. DLR can't argue that Schumacher gained an advantage because the positions never changed - DLR was never ahead. You really should find a way to watch the video, guys because it's clear as daylight - DLR braked too late and was out of control, forcing Schumacher to cut the corner.

The proof is in the pudding anyway. No sanctions were brought against Schumacher.

[Otto Benz]

Just to break the summer break... to say that I agree with Jacques is an understatement.


It doesn't say Fly Emirates!!

You want the journos to do what? Hugh!!

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Spliff

Let the sports journalists expose the lies.

Media doesn't know a thing about what is going @ Drivers Meetings. So, hardly they could expose Schu lies.

Another F1 drivers have talked about such meeting, so far they concur with Jacques version.

I had read this J.V. stuff but "didn't care" to reflect it here because you know, I am so biased against M.S. that I could even damage Jacques' credibility.

It has to be true!, because Schu told you so! doesn't work anymore. So, what gives Michael, it hurts to be wrong, doesn't it ?

[Otto Benz]

To be involved in any racing series doesn't mean you can go moving your racing series rules or guidelines to other series. Brake testing a driver is fine in go-karts but is an offense in F1.

[Otto Benz]

Schumi at Silverstone GPDA meeting? There He was as good as his racing tries on DTM.

;-)

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

To be involved in any racing series doesn't mean you can go moving your racing series rules or guidelines to other series. Brake testing a driver is fine in go-karts but is an offense in F1.

Not true. Formula 1 is governed by the same International Sporting Code that applies to other formulae.

This is a silly debate though. You admit that you haven't seen the video, yet you argue that Schumacher should have let DLR through. If everyone let everyone else past, it wouldn't be racing. They could just as well put the cars on a dynamometer and then give the points out to the best car! Even if you are slower than the car behind you, you are entitled to keep him behind you provided you don't weave excessively and provided you leave space on the straights for him to get past. Until you've actually seen the video, you shouldn't be commenting!

BTW, you still haven't answered the question about what those photos you posted were supposed to be of. They certainly are NOT of the incident we're talking about. Did you try to mislead us or was your source trying to mislead us?

[Otto Benz]

As any proper site, we also have an online poll !!

#### Macnn Formula 1 Poll ####

Question: Which was the team complaining about Renault's mass damper?

- FIAT
- Ferrari I think
- probably both
- not sure which but one of these I am sure
- It was Jacques Villeneuve (heard that)

Prize: Any pointless Fiat.

#### Macnn Formula 1 Poll ####

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

As any proper site, we also have an online poll !!

#### Macnn Formula 1 Poll ####

Question: Which was the team complaining about Renault's mass damper?

- FIAT
- Ferrari I think
- probably both
- not sure which but one of these I am sure
- It was Jacques Villeneuve (heard that)

Prize: Any pointless Fiat.

#### Macnn Formula 1 Poll ####

From what I've read, it was BMW that complained about the system. Ferrari would obviously not complain about the mass damper system because they (and McLaren and Red Bull) have a mass damper system too. BMW doesn't.

Everything is Ferrari or Schumacher's fault in your books. I'm surprised you didn't blame Ferrari for Honda running two fuel tanks.

[Otto Benz]

He he. I could complain that they didn't check the other two cars on the podium at Imola then :-D

I wonder how much is left to complain for BMW after they were caught still flexing. Ferrari's mass damper proved to be a second-rate so they don't suffer a lot as they didn't rely too much on it in comparison to renault. Advantages of carbon copying.

McLaren doesn't use mass dampers, it has a more complex system.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

Ferrari's mass damper proved to be a second-rate so they don't suffer a lot as they didn't rely too much on it in comparison to renault.

This is true. Renault designed the car around the mass damper system.

Personally I think it's a stupid decision. The Citroen 2CV has a mass damper so why shouldn't an F1.

[Otto Benz]

LATEST NEWS !!

FIA self-destroys its technical department

After the court decision of minimizing Renault's chances for the rest of the season and full-sizing ferrari ones, now the FIA is coming full circle. Although the FIA has rejected the claims that the ban of renaults mass dampers (a 2005 and 2006 legal system until) was manipulating the World Championship (it wasn't.. hu?!) they released a press note to clarify that:

FIA press note about massively damping the 2006 championship.

We are heavily concerned that banning the Renault's Mass Damper (RMD) should give a interesting point to the championship. In fact, it should give interesting points to Michael Schumacher.

So we want to clarify several points to put our integrity beyond any doubt and to magnify our know how of the highest level of motorsports to the public knowledge .

- Clearly when Renault showed us the mass damper and we told them 'go ahead with it' we didn't know what the heck a mass damper was, but it looked beautiful if you ask me. So we instantly faxed to Ross and asked him what a mass damper was. He replied that that was a good idea and asked me to send him the blue prints.

- There is no reason to believe that ferrari was behind the curtain about the legality of RMD. The fact that they weren't on the 2005 season run and now they're the team to obtain a bigger, if not definitively advantage, is no reason to believe it.

- The rumors about ferrari using Michael Schumacher as a mass damper himself are totally wrong, silly and unacceptable. We knew that it was probably leaked by Flavio Briatore as they don't get together since the playboy called names to Michael at Monaco, exactly 'son of a bitchhh'

- Flavio's petition to prove that by running the ferrari without Michael Schumacher and see how much it hurts its competitiveness are unacceptable to the FIA.

- Most of the simulations done by our technical department showed that ferrari could be a bit slower without MS, but the most optimistic simulations underestimated how quick Massa is. So we think, without need to on-track test, that Ferrari isn't using Michael Schumacher as a mass damper.

- This doesn't meant that ferrari's mass damper was way less efficient than Renault's mass damper.


The FIA technical department checked any car for mass damper solutions. We understand that there is no team left using mass damper actually.
Results as follows for immediate publication

Renault
Introduced on late 2005 it features an incredibly efficient and complex mass damper that allowed the team to win several races and titles. It was banned now.

McLaren-Mercedes
We knew that the silver camp withdrew from the mass damper a long time ago because they used a very much complex suspension. Any reminiscence of 'mass' damper was definitively erased with the departure of Juan Pablo.

Ferrari Marlboro
Used a copycat mass damper but it proved to be much less successfull than Renault's. In some way it allowed Massa to be really competitive because forced Michael Schumi to drive using Alonso's style. Not used anymore.

Honda Honda
When checked by the FIA, it was a big surprise to see that the Honda 06 featured a double mass damper but only on Jenson car. Probably developed using all the Japanese expertise on any kind mass dampers. There is no need of a second mass damper unit on Rubens as we heard that his ankles are used as mass dampers. A feature well know in current latin drivers.

Toyota
As Renault they used the mass damper lately mainly as a last try to look any sort of competitive. It worked well, specially on Ralf car as Jarno found it difficult to setup as in his own words, the car behaved very much like Alonso's Renault.

Williams
No mass damper needed to improve competitiveness. Instead of spent money and resources developing it, Williams chose to place a photo of Patrick Head inside the FW28 cockpit. It worked well the first race.

RedBull
Nothing to worry about the current mass damper. Square face DC said the team is just waiting for Adrian Newey's new car to be utterly competitive and that just a Newey's new front wing could do more than any of recent efforts of RedBull technical team for the last two seasons.

BMW
Any try to build and make run a mass damper efficiently were a major fault when C.Bangle was appointed as mass damper chief design.

Midland
No money and resources to copycat a mass damper.

ToroRosso
As applies to RedBull, but just one year latter.

SuperAguri
Have you seen their motorhome!?? So don't mind about mass dampers!

[Otto Benz]

Originally Posted by Troll

"This is true. Renault designed the car around the mass damper system.

Personally I think it's a stupid decision. The Citroen 2CV has a mass damper so why shouldn't an F1."

Finally we agree !!

[Otto Benz]

Charlie clarifies nothing.

F1 race director and safety delegate, Charlie Whiting was requested at GPDA meeting. Here he was asked about Schumi move at Hungaroring. He went to clarify nothing at all. As part involved spaniard DLR asked him; the other drivers were all attending. Michael Schumacher, although present and attending, said no word on the meeting.

Originally Posted by At GPDA meeting

DLR: Schumi move missing the chicane, was legal?
Charlie: (thinking) ummm, yes

Other drivers start to speak themselves loudly

DLR: So no matter of what, a driver can miss a chicane at any time even if other is overtaking him?
Charlie: ummm yes
DLR: Why?
Charlie: yes, it is legal

More noise from the drivers astonished at Charlie clarifications. Note he didn't reply DLR question.

DLR: so if this is ok, every one could do that.. but then, how many times can you miss it?
Charlie: em, well not many.

After that drivers gave up and left with the opinion that some one can miss chicanes and some others can't do it.

This is an embarrassing attitude by the FIA not only for the forthcoming Monza chicanes. Charlie was unable to clarify the incident at all. And in the way he was speaking, it looked like he was fooling everyone, has no idea at all (that is impossible so I think he was lying) or he was drunk. Not to say that there wasn't a single mention to 'he was entitled ..' or any rule to support his asserts.

A prove of:
how much power Schumi-Ferrari packet has?
how little sense FIA has nowadays?
how bad they did at Hungaroring?
all them together?

To blazes with the code? Then mistrust the FIA! Seems that what bodes ill for Schumi bodes ill for Charlie.



Charlie can't understand his circus



Another kind of Circus Charlie



Charlie keeps Maylander at bay.

It's a mixed result because we wanted to try to get Michael in front of Fernando. I'm not sure what else we could have done, we had the fastest car and best tyres but the safety car came at the wrong time. source Ross Brawn

He was right saying that not much could be done. But then he has no really reason to complain about the time the SC was deployed. In fact it was a so delayed deployment that the cynical would like to say it happened at a time it'll do the less damage to him!

Originally Posted by FIA Official database supplier

Things might have been worse. If there had been an early Safety Car in Turkey, as there should have been, the Ferrari strategies might have gone awry and Alonso might even have won the race. We will never know because in the end there was a Safety Car just as the frontrunners were going into the pitstop windows

Lewis Hamilton, the Black Pearl

Weren't you watching the GP2 race? On the second lap Hamilton spun and dropped back to 16th. He then drove a blinder to overtake everyone ahead of him with the exception of winner. One more lap (or two more corners) and Zuber would have fallen victim of Hamilton as well. There was Hamilton doing an spectacle as the rest of the field looked more or less like obtuse drivers!

Just if you though that Schumi trying for 12 laps on Alonso was somewhat hot.



Puppet-size driver delivers giant performance!

Congratulations to Felipe on his first win. He did the most of the combination chassis, engine and tyre available to him. The package worked really well.

As Todt uses to say.


It looks like our rim shields!!!


And what's your story Schumi?

About catching Massa,
"I managed to close it a bit before the safety car but nevertheless he didn't make a mistake and brought it home." (source Schumi)

Let us examine that claim for a moment mates, shall we? He said exactly that at Malaysia. This can't be true, he relies on others mistakes and misfortunes, isn't that? As comparison, did all the drivers in front of Lewis Hamilton mistakes that eased his way? And all on same chassis, same engine, same tyre. I mean that this kind of speaking by Schumi does nothing to help him.


Schumi also went wide at turn 8, he said the car was heavy and tricky to drive. DLR was driving a Exxon-Mobil tanker and complained of none. And he did a superb job keeping lighter cars behind him.


A turkey race for Schumi




I think we've all arrived at a very special place


Then another disgraceful race for Kimi as second-rate driver Speed smashed in his car, and many others. Shooot Speed has his own view of the incident:

"All happened on the first corner. I was arriving and saw debris all over there. The first though was that a fighting was on just there! So which one better than me, as american, to do justice!? The USA anthem was all over my cockpit and as soon as I saw so many cars and drivers on the incident I said "Come on, men! Who wants some? Form an orderly line, I'll have you all one by one. Come on, who's first?" I started to push whichever was in front of mine. I think I did it competitively. (source unconfirmed)

A poor driver but a driver nonetheless. He managed to smash Kimi's McLaren and also clonked DLR's McLaren. I am sure his driving abilities caused an impression on Ron Dennis.



I wonder Speed, can you live with this?


BMW shined again on the weekend. But as used, that was fireworks prior to the race. Just to let people thinking they are doing it rightly. Probably there will come a time when they have a chance to do it right. Ah, that was the old Toyota joke. Or it was Jenson joke?


A final note that made me laugh. Here is Ron Dennis speaking about releasing Juan Pablo:
"We have no problem with releasing Juan Pablo early, we just don't see that we should be doing that and paying him at the same time. Source Ron Dennis

What the f*** is Chrysler thinking? Every man has a price which he will willingly accept. Do they want to run Juan Pablo for free just because all them are under the DaimlerChrysler arm? Isn't Chrysler enough to hurt Daimler shares?

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

To blazes with the code? Then mistrust the FIA! Seems that what bodes ill for Schumi bodes ill for Charlie.

If you're going to insist on this, why don't you show us the code? Why don't you at least make a plan to watch the video. DLR was BEHIND and he was overcommitted. He barely managed to stay on the track! Schumacher had nowhere to go but off the track. A lesser driver would probably have taken the corner and destroyed his car - which would have suited Benetton, I mean Renault, down to the ground. So, if we follow your rule then the easiest way to get past someone is just to blast up the inside, force them off the track and then make them concede the place after the corner.

The facts are simple. Schumacher was always ahead of DLR.

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

A turkey race for Schumi

I don't know who made the mistake in the pits - Schumacher or the Ferrari team. Either way, Schumacher was 8 seconds ahead before the safety car came out and Alonso gained another 3 from the pit queue. There was a lot of luck involved in his 2nd place. But that's part of racing too. Let's see if he can keep it up to the end.

[TETENAL]

I don't like your humour. It sounds like bitter sarcasm. And since one doesn't know which quotes are real and which ones you made up there's no point in reading your drivel at all.

[Otto Benz]

It's easy, the real quotes has the source and the name of the quoted, the funny quotes has the '(source unconfirmed)' It has been that way since the first days.
That is, source Ross Brawn and source Schumi are for real. Source unconfirmed, when talking about Speed are humour, after all his driving habilites are joke since his A1 days.
But then, you maybe don't know what a A1 is !

The source of the GPDA meetings isn't quoted, because that meetings are private and don't go to the media. But my boy was there :-P

And what was wrong with my humour? I have seen much worse things.

Originally Posted by Troll

I don't know who made the mistake in the pits - Schumacher or the Ferrari team. Either way, Schumacher was 8 seconds ahead before the safety car came out and Alonso gained another 3 from the pit queue. There was a lot of luck involved in his 2nd place. But that's part of racing too. Let's see if he can keep it up to the end.

I think no one did a mistake, nor Schumi nor ferrari. Schumi said there is nothing he can do about it. And Ross was very polity saying that switching cars on pitlane wasn't going to be a very popular movement.

[Otto Benz]

Originally Posted by Troll

If you're going to insist on this, why don't you show us the code? Why don't you at least make a plan to watch the video. DLR was BEHIND and he was overcommitted. He barely managed to stay on the track! Schumacher had nowhere to go but off the track. A lesser driver would probably have taken the corner and destroyed his car - which would have suited Benetton, I mean Renault, down to the ground. So, if we follow your rule then the easiest way to get past someone is just to blast up the inside, force them off the track and then make them concede the place after the corner.

The facts are simple. Schumacher was always ahead of DLR

I am complaining because the FIA delegate can't clarify the incident and in your views you seem to be able !!

[Otto Benz]

2007 Formula 1 calendar

Australia March 18
Malaysia April 08
Bahrain April 15
Spain May 13
Monaco May 27
Canada June 10
United States June 17
France July 01
United Kingdom July 08
Germany July 22
Hungary August 05
Turkey August 26
Italy September 09
Belgium September 16
China September 30
Japan October 07
Brazil October 21


Imola and European GP are out. If Imola manages an upgrade of the track, it could be reinstalled two weeks ahead of SpanishGP. Check the gap from Bahrain to Spain, almost one month!!

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

I am complaining because the FIA delegate can't clarify the incident and in your views you seem to be able !!

Which part of "It was legal" don't you understand? That seems perfectly clear to me. Besides, why do they need to clarify anything. It's patently obvious what happened. No protest was lodged either so there was no "incident". The FIA doesn't have to explain how the rules apply to every single overtaking move in every single race. Anyway, where did you get that dialogue from if the meetings are in camera?

[The Mick]

Originally Posted by Otto Benz

2007 Formula 1 calendar

Australia March 18
Malaysia April 08
Bahrain April 15
Spain May 13
Monaco May 27
Canada June 10
United States June 17
France July 01
United Kingdom July 08
Germany July 22
Hungary August 05
Turkey August 26
Italy September 09
Belgium September 16
China September 30
Japan October 07
Brazil October 21


Imola and European GP are out. If Imola manages an upgrade of the track, it could be reinstalled two weeks ahead of SpanishGP. Check the gap from Bahrain to Spain, almost one month!!

I'll gladly take Imola or Nurburgring dropping in favor of returning to Spa.

[TETENAL]

One race dropped in Germany is a strong hint at Schumacher ending his career this year.

[Otto Benz]

The FIA says it is launching an investigation into how and why Mehmet Ali Talat was invited to present the winner's trophy at the Turkish Grand Prix. Race winner Felipe Massa received his trophy from Talat, who was introduced and captions on television "President of the Northern Turkish Republic of Cyprus".

There is no doubt that this was a deliberate piece of political theatre by the Turkish authorities. Cyprus became an independent country in 1960 but tensions between the Greek Cypriot majority and the Turkish-Cypriot minority resulted in an outbreak of violence in 1963 and the deployment of a United Nations peace-keeping force the following year. In 1974 a Greek-sponsored attempt to seize control of the island resulted in Turkish troops invading the north. Greek Cypriots control the only internationally-recognized government but in 1983 Rauf Denktash dcelared the north to be independent with the formation of what was called the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. This is only recognized by Turkey. The entire island entered the European Union in May 2004, although EU obligations and rights apply only to the area under control of the government while being suspended in the Turkish-controlled zone.

Not surprisingly the Cypriot government denounced the F1 display as being "an unacceptable and provocative piece of theatre".

The FIA's reaction is that political neutrality is fundamental to its role as the governing body of international motor sport and that it will accept "no compromise or violation of this neutrality".

But it remains to be seen whether the Turks will lose their race. Commercial matters in F1 are only nominally controlled by the FIA and the race is Turkey is a nice little earner for FOM, which is unlikely to be much interested in this political kerfuffle.

One has to feel a littl sorry for the Turkish sporting authorities as they cannot easily say no to their government but at the same time cannot easily say no to the FIA.

There is little question that the act was provocative. The big question is why it happened and whether the FIA has the power to punish the Turks or whether the whole business will be fudged in the interests of commercial arrangements.

If I am not wrong, one precedent of a politically incorrect behaviour on a podium ceremony done on purpose was in Jerez 1997 and it was the end of F1 races at Jerez. Luckily they still enjoy a lot of testing.

[Otto Benz]

Originally Posted by Troll

Which part of "It was legal" don't you understand?

Which part of 'yes, it is legal' is a decent reply to the question 'Why?' ??
We're talking of the race director and safety delegate, not a reply of any dictatorial fan !!

The FIA was asked why it was legal and they didn't reply to that, which it seems is fine for you but not for me. The FIA failed to demostrate the legality with any rule. I am wrong?

I got the quote from a current F1 driver of course.

Originally Posted by Tetenal

One race dropped in Germany is a strong hint at Schumacher ending his career this year.

And one more at Italy ! But then, these were the countries with two races and it was expected.

There is also Mr. Todt that came to say he sees Massa as a new champion. Maybe he is easing his way at Ferrari if Schumi left, or he is easing the job for his son if Massa has to look for a team the next season, because Felipe Massa has said he doesn't want the test role if Kimi and Schumi race together in 2007.

Next week at Monza we'll know all !!

[angelmb]

If you're going to insist on this, why don't you show us the code?

Which one?, the same you didn't care to show here?

I don't know who made the mistake in the pits - Schumacher or the Ferrari team.

Nobody, only Michael can blame himself about not being able to overtake Felipe before the SC scenario.

I am complaining because the FIA delegate can't clarify the incident and in your views you seem to be able !!

Of course, not only it was unable to give an appropriate 'why it was legal' but it seems is behavior was 0% polite… imagine a guy asking for help at the Software boards, 'hey folks my Safari keeps crashing… what's up?', and all he/she gets is a 'meh, you don't want to mess with Safari, shut up already', nice huh?

2007 Formula 1 calendar

…

damn-it!, Indianapolis still there?… (*)

(*) funny thing such smile is dubbed brick LOL

Besides, why do they need to clarify anything.

HAHA, maybe because DLR asked about it !?, give me a break !! (*)

(*) and this one is dubbed 'sleep'… you sleeping when Otto posted about it ?

One race dropped in Germany is a strong hint at Schumacher ending his career this year.

Nichtsdestoweniger denke ich dass er die italienische Strecker eher als die deutsche vermissen wird !!!!!!!!!!

something like …nevertheless I guess he is going to miss the italian track way more than the german one… My apologies, german is a hard language… for hard people.

If I am not wrong, one precedent of a politically incorrect behavior on a podium ceremony done on purpose was in Jerez 1997 and it was the end of F1 races at Jerez.

Oh sure, it was Pedro Pacheco, mayor of Jerez. Andy Warhol told once that "In the future everyone will be famous for fifteen minutes", this dude had enough with one minute to ruin Jerez future as F1 race track.

There is also Mr. Todt that came to say he sees Massa as a new champion.

How long until Jean sees his fiancé as World Champion ?

[Otto Benz]

My apologies, german is a hard language… for hard people.

Kidding about my uncle Norbie Haug and his heavy silver machines !?!

[Troll]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Nobody, only Michael can blame himself about not being able to overtake Felipe before the SC scenario.

Of course. To say anything else would be ridiculous. By the same token, pretending that Alonso didn't gain 8 seconds from pure luck would also be ridiculous.

HAHA, maybe because DLR asked about it !?, give me a break !!

What difference does that make? The safety reps aren't there to discuss whether moves are legal. DLR knows the rules. If he thinks they were infringed, he can complain. Know why he didn't? Because he knew he was wrong. As you'd see if you joined the 21st century and watched the video.

Besides, those sessions are closed, so I call bullsh1t on the quote.