[baw]

Screenshot: http://toshi3.cocolog-nifty.com/.sha...es/ssintel.jpg

Experimental build of SheepShaver for Intel Macs are now available.

SheepShaver

[Big Mac]

Interesting find, baw, I guess this project is related to Sheep Shaver, which was an OS 9 environment for BeOS.

[parsec_kadets]

I distinctly remember Steve Jobs standing in front of a picture of a tombstone with OS 9 written on it. Is that not a big enough clue that you need to move on?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by parsec_kadets

I distinctly remember Steve Jobs standing in front of a picture of a tombstone with OS 9 written on it. Is that not a big enough clue that you need to move on?

That was at a developers' conference. The point was, "don't write apps for OS 9 anymore." It didn't mean that all attempts at backward compatibility and trying to run old apps should be abandoned.

Some people need to run old software. Some people also have old games they like to run for nostalgia. Deal with it.

[leperkuhn]

Hey lets get emotional about it.

Relax.

Originally Posted by parsec_kadets

I distinctly remember Steve Jobs standing in front of a picture of a tombstone with OS 9 written on it. Is that not a big enough clue that you need to move on?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by leperkuhn

Hey lets get emotional about it.

Relax.

He's probably one of these people that lobbies for Apple to remove Classic from 10.5 even on PPC Macs. "If I don't use it, then no one should be able to! Simply not installing it on my machine is not an option - it must DIE DIE DIE!!!!!"

[baw]

Originally Posted by parsec_kadets

I distinctly remember Steve Jobs standing in front of a picture of a tombstone with OS 9 written on it. Is that not a big enough clue that you need to move on?

ANd your problem is? I have a lot of software that only runs in Classic (lots of old games).

[clarkgoble]

Games like Strategic Conquest...

[goofticket]

All of my graphics software is on my G3. I don't have a problem with it at all.
once I'm done and need to print something, I can.
My older PS printer is shared with my Intel imac and everything prints perfectly.
While it would be nice to use them on the Intel imac, I am more than willing to wait until patches, udates and even upgrades are done...then i will buy the Adobe Creative Suite & Quark.
I did this back when OS 7 showed up, when OS 8 showed up and when I loaded OSX 10.1.5 on my G3.
So if you need Classic or OS9, keep your old machine and network it to the new mac.
I gues tossing out the baby with the bathwater applies here.

[Horsepoo!!!]

BasiliskII Intel version now up:
http://www.gibix.net/projects/basilisk2/

[pliny]

Scrabble on ( is good too, is there an X version???

[lookmark]

Very cool. Glad to see a form of "Classic" will live on for those who need it.

This will be helpful for educational institutions in making a smoother transition.

[Dork.]

I'd like to see you do this on your intel iMac:

Run an OS 9 emulator
which runs Win 95 via Virtual PC for OS 9
which runs a C64 emulator

[baw]

lol

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by lookmark

Very cool. Glad to see a form of "Classic" will live on for those who need it.

This will be helpful for educational institutions in making a smoother transition.

I dunno, this won't be anywhere near as easy to set up as Classic was. I mean, with Classic you just installed one package and then the first time you launched a Classic app you'd wait for the environment to start up, but after that Classic apps pretty much looked and worked like any other OS X app, just with an uglier interface and icon. With SheepShaver you have to:

1. happen to have a copy of 9.0.4 around somewhere (since 9.1 and later don't work with SheepShaver)

2. get a Mac OS ROM file, either by ripping it from an old machine or by pulling it out of one of a minor obscure OS update with TomeViewer (keeping in mind that you have to find the right ROM file for it to work - only a small subset of the Mac OS ROMs floating around out there are compatible with SheepShaver)

3. create a disk image - of course, you then have to convert to .img format because the default .dmg format won't work with SheepShaver

4. get 9.0.4 onto the disk image somehow

5. configure SheepShaver by editing an invisible text file with an editor, since SheepShaver has no GUI

6. now, every time you want to run an app, you have to explicitly start SheepShaver, then find the app in the emulated Finder, then finally launch it

7. every time you want to transfer files into the emulated environment you have to do so through disk images

8. you have to deal with other assorted issues like no sound (at least on my G5), etc.

I dunno, the learning curves and gotchas are too numerous for educational institutions to make much use of this, I think. If they've got to run a whole full-system emulator just to make their apps work, they might as well just go to Windows.

[lookmark]

Ah, I was skimming a bit; I missed a lot of those details. Yeek.

I should say instead: it's good that one day there may be a decent "Classic" alternative for those who really need it.

Btw, as someone who is forced to use Outlook Express in Classic at work I'm rather pleased that Classic is quietly being phased out via the Intel Macs; however, I think it's also good for computing in general and specific groups in specific if SheepShaver (or some other OS 9 emulator) is available, and becomes easier to use for mere morals.

[Eriamjh]

I want OS8.

[baw]

Just got SheepShaver running. Pain in the butt to get going though and somewhat unstable.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by parsec_kadets

I distinctly remember Steve Jobs standing in front of a picture of a tombstone with OS 9 written on it. Is that not a big enough clue that you need to move on?

I can't play Dark Castle, Pirates! Gold, Super Maze Wars, Civilizations, and Bolo on OS X.

[Targon]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

He's probably one of these people that lobbies for Apple to remove Classic from 10.5 even on PPC Macs. "If I don't use it, then no one should be able to! Simply not installing it on my machine is not an option - it must DIE DIE DIE!!!!!"

Yeah well go buy an old PowerMac G4 to run Mac OS 9x.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Targon

Yeah well go buy an old PowerMac G4 to run Mac OS 9x.

Yeah, because I have just unlimited space in my tiny apartment. Not!

[TheSpaz]

I love not using OS 9. What in the world would people need to keep using OS 9 for anyway? I think it's time to start saving your money and upgrading your old software and get with the times... if you have enough money to go out and buy an Intel Mac, then why not just upgrade your apps or just deal with not using them. I haven't found the need for 1 single OS 9 App in my everyday workflow. I have iLife which gives me all the tools I need for music, movies, and photos. I have TextEdit which isn't a bad word processor. Safari is the only browser I need. Mail is fine. QuickTime, DVD Player, iChat... I just don't think that Apple would leave anything out. I also have Illustrator, Photoshop and all other design Apps at work.

[SMacTech]

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I love not using OS 9. What in the world would people need to keep using OS 9 for anyway? I think it's time to start saving your money and upgrading your old software and get with the times...

Why are you being so narrow minded? I have 2 reasons which I am quite sure you wouldn't think of.

Trust me, I have NO love for OS 9, but I do need it.

[jasong]

I keep a copy of OS 9 around just to annoy TheSpaz.

[baw]

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I love not using OS 9. What in the world would people need to keep using OS 9 for anyway? I think it's time to start saving your money and upgrading your old software and get with the times... if you have enough money to go out and buy an Intel Mac, then why not just upgrade your apps or just deal with not using them. I haven't found the need for 1 single OS 9 App in my everyday workflow. I have iLife which gives me all the tools I need for music, movies, and photos. I have TextEdit which isn't a bad word processor. Safari is the only browser I need. Mail is fine. QuickTime, DVD Player, iChat... I just don't think that Apple would leave anything out. I also have Illustrator, Photoshop and all other design Apps at work.

Good for you. You deserve a cookie.

[andgarden]

Baw,

Is that running in Rosetta? How's the speed?

[baw]

SheepShaver is compiled for Intel. However, MacOS 9 isn't very stable within SheepShaver. I couldn't open SimpleText without OS 9 crashing.

[andgarden]

Hmm. I'd expect Transitive's hand coded JIT (Rosetta) to do a much better job than a generic emulator. Is there any way to make it work in Rosetta?

[baw]

Checked, there is not an option to force it into Rosetta that I can see.

[macintologist]

I'm sure someone can get a hack going that forces Rosetta to open the "Classic" application that OS X PPC uses.

Someone will figure it out.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by macintologist

I'm sure someone can get a hack going that forces Rosetta to open the "Classic" application that OS X PPC uses.

Someone will figure it out.

It's not possible AFAIK. Rosetta is a binary translator. It works on individual binaries. It doesn't have the ability to emulate a whole virtual machine.

[clarkgoble]

Nope. Rosetta is actually fairly limited in what it can handle.

[joejoe]

Originally Posted by baw

Just got SheepShaver running. Pain in the butt to get going though and somewhat unstable.

How? Can you share?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by jasong

I keep a copy of OS 9 around just to annoy TheSpaz.

I keep a copy of 10.3 to annoy TheSpaz.

[macintologist]

I want to be able to run OS 9 so I can play Oregon Trail. ;-)


(not kidding)

[Weyland-Yutani]

I would like to be able to use OS 9 in a virtual machine (or being able to boot up in OS 9) - not as Classic, although I'd make due with Classic. Reason being TIE Fighter doesn't work with Classic. Most of the other games do though so that's ok.

I'm sad to see TIE Fighter disappear into the ether along with OS 9. Nothing has come after it to replace it.

cheers

W-Y

[leperkuhn]

or any of the older games that are still fun, like diablo2, warcraft 2, descent..

I like old games so I might be in a minority here.

[Detrius]

Originally Posted by leperkuhn

or any of the older games that are still fun, like diablo2, warcraft 2, descent..

I like old games so I might be in a minority here.

Ummm, I know that at least Diablo II and Descent have OS X versions available. I wouldn't be surprised if Warcraft 2 did as well.

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Yeah, because I have just unlimited space in my tiny apartment. Not!

Mac mini (used) + KVM = OS 9 fun

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

Mac mini (used) + KVM = OS 9 fun

Erm, so now I'm supposed to buy a whole machine solely to run OS 9 software, and it would be a machine that doesn't even boot OS 9?! No thanks.

Also, you're forgetting that a KVM switch isn't an option if your main machine is an iMac or laptop. Some of us can't exactly afford G5 towers in order to have a separate monitor (and want more power than a Mac mini provides). Also, if you use a Bluetooth mouse and/or keyboard, well, that won't work with your KVM switch. If you have USB devices such as a printer, etc, same problem. Want to transfer files between OS 9 and OS X? PITA. All in all, not worth it...

Finally, another thing that makes the whole "just buy an old Mac" idea stupid is that old machines eventually do die, as nothing lasts forever. Plus, it's a pain in the ass, and wastes a massive amount of space. It's a ridiculous argument.

Hell, even the PITA that is SheepShaver is better than getting a whole separate machine.

[macintologist]

If you're so dying to run OS 9 natively and supposedly don't have any room in your apartment, then buy an old used Powerbook G3

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=281407

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

That was at a developers' conference. The point was, "don't write apps for OS 9 anymore." It didn't mean that all attempts at backward compatibility and trying to run old apps should be abandoned.

Some people need to run old software. Some people also have old games they like to run for nostalgia. Deal with it.

Thanx God for SheepShaver! I'm one of those classic Mac users that need Mac OS 9, dude! I'm with U!

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by macintologist

If you're so dying to run OS 9 natively and supposedly don't have any room in your apartment, then buy an old used Powerbook G3

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=281407

1. which will cost $$$

2. which will eventually die

3. which will be a PITA because you have to use a separate keyboard&mouse, separate display (if you have an iMac or a laptop as main machine, or if you use a digital monitor that the PBG3 can't handle)

4. which can't use your Bluetooth stuff

5. which won't print to your USB printer without you swapping cables

6. which will be a PITA to transfer files back and forth b/w it and your OS X machine

Did you even read my post?

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I love not using OS 9. What in the world would people need to keep using OS 9 for anyway? I think it's time to start saving your money and upgrading your old software and get with the times... if you have enough money to go out and buy an Intel Mac, then why not just upgrade your apps or just deal with not using them. I haven't found the need for 1 single OS 9 App in my everyday workflow. I have iLife which gives me all the tools I need for music, movies, and photos. I have TextEdit which isn't a bad word processor. Safari is the only browser I need. Mail is fine. QuickTime, DVD Player, iChat... I just don't think that Apple would leave anything out. I also have Illustrator, Photoshop and all other design Apps at work.

You don't know what you are talking about... so, let me tell you my story.
I work with Audio Production and for that case I am using a G4 Dual, with OS 9.2, why? I do a lot of my audio editing on ProTools, Why I don't go ahead and buy a Mac OS X upgraded version of ProTools? because if I do that I will have to pay for all of my plug-ins again!! I have more than 200 plug-ins, half don't exist no more for OS X, and almost the other half need complete upgrades! without mentioning the plug-ins that are so old, that I don't even remember where I bought them, so, I am stuck with OS 9... until one day I quit my job and forget about Audio and start working on something else! believe me, out there is a lot of people stuck with OS 9, like small printing companies, that most of their hardware are too old for Tiger compatibility. wake up and smell the coffee, OS 9 will lived for ever...

[TheSpaz]

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

You don't know what you are talking about... so, let me tell you my story.
I work with Audio Production and for that case I am using a G4 Dual, with OS 9.2, why? I do a lot of my audio editing on ProTools, Why I don't go ahead and buy a Mac OS X upgraded version of ProTools? because if I do that I will have to pay for all of my plug-ins again!! I have more than 200 plug-ins, half don't exist no more for OS X, and almost the other half need complete upgrades! without mentioning the plug-ins that are so old, that I don't even remember where I bought them, so, I am stuck with OS 9... until one day I quit my job and forget about Audio and start working on something else! believe me, out there is a lot of people stuck with OS 9, like small printing companies, that most of their hardware are too old for Tiger compatibility. wake up and smell the coffee, OS 9 will lived for ever...

Maybe if you did update and bought something other than ProTools like Logic Pro, then you'd probably have the plug-ins you need included with Logic. I don't know what kind of audio you do but, I have Logic Express and I have a band and I can get some decent sound out of it using the plug-ins that were included with Logic Express. There are also TONS of free plug-ins available for download and maybe even some of your old plug-ins are updated for OS X Compatibility and are even better than they were in OS 9.

On the other hand, you could get a new computer with Tiger and play around with it and still use your G4 for Audio.

You don't have to listen to me... I'm just throwing ideas out there.

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

iCab 3 (Beta 382), running on Mac OS 8.6... running on SheepShaver 2.3, on Windows XP Pro SP2.

Yes, i DO realize that this section on the forum is really about Mac OS 9... but i wanted to show you all that even I have a use for an even OLDER (and maybe even more stable) Mac OS than 9.x

What i use it for:
1) Graphics (Photoshop 4 & 5).... i already own these apps... i'm not out to spend another $100-$300 for another creative suite of apps i know i'm not really gonna use.

2) Playing old games (Prince of Persia 2....but i've yet to try Full Throttle, Marathon Trilogy, and Wolfenstein 3D)

3) ........I also use it because i STILL feel that Mac OS 8.6 is better than Windows XP! (minus support for Unicode and all the GUI eye-candy)

4) Working on the Windows XP/Vista/Royale Kaleidoscope scheme I recently released, now that my PowerMac 6100 is being repaired.....by me....

5) HERITIGE... i'm PROUD of my Legacy Mac roots! I've been a Mac "Addict" since PowerPC was first put in the Mac! Sure, back in 1995, the computer was slow, and software was limited... but I would not have the knowledge of networking and multiple operating systems that I have now if it weren't for everything I've experienced, Pre-OSX.

[JKT]

Out of curiosities sake, for 1) why not get and use the GIMP instead (free OSS)?

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

gimp.... wow... i never knew they had a Windows port of it.... but still, i'm too stubborn to abandon my trusty Photoshop 4 & 5!!!

[leperkuhn]

Originally Posted by JKT

Out of curiosities sake, for 1) why not get and use the GIMP instead (free OSS)?

Because it sucks.

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by baw

SheepShaver is compiled for Intel. However, MacOS 9 isn't very stable within SheepShaver. I couldn't open SimpleText without OS 9 crashing.

So it's accurate emulation then?