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German ruling says Dresden was a holocaust
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typoon
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Apr 12, 2005, 09:28 PM
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...2/ixworld.html

Wednesday 13 April 2005
German ruling says Dresden was a holocaust
By Hannah Cleaver in Berlin
(Filed: 12/04/2005)

German prosecutors have provoked outrage by ruling that the 1945 RAF bombing of Dresden can legally be termed a "holocaust".

The decision follows the refusal by the Hamburg public prosecutor's office to press charges against a Right-wing politician who compared the bombing raids to "the extermination of the Jews".

German law forbids the denial or playing down of the Holocaust as an incitement to hatred.

So delicate is the subject of the slaughter of Jews under Hitler that any use of the word "holocaust", or comparison with it, faces intense scrutiny and sometimes legal action.


But prosecutors have declined to pursue further the case of Udo Voigt, the chairman of the far-Right NPD, who likened the RAF's raids to the Nazis' "final solution".


Rudigger Bagger, a spokesman for the Hamburg public prosecutor, said the decision took into account only the criminal, not the moral, aspects of the case.

But he cited as a legal precedent a ruling by the federal constitutional court that favoured free speech in political exchanges, if defamation was not the prime aim of the argument.

Holger Apfel, the NPD's leader in the Saxon regional parliament, caused a scandal in January when he shouted down a commemoration of the Dresden bombing, prompting many others to walk out in disgust.

His outburst was covered by parliamentary privilege but Mr Voigt applauded and repeated the statements elsewhere.

Paul Spiegel, the president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, criticised the decision by prosecutors not to take action. He said the statements were incitement and allowing them to stand opened the door to further such comments.

"Morally, I have no understanding of this," he said. "One can ban such remarks if you use the law consistently. It is questionable whether statements that are clearly incitement come under freedom of expression."

Although the NPD is despised by other parties, German politicians reluctantly accepted the ruling.

Dieter Wiefelsp�etz, the interior spokesman for the Social Democrat Party described the phrase "holocaust" in the context of Dresden as an "exploitation of the victims". But he supported the decision not to prosecute.

Attitudes towards the Allied bombing campaign, which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, are changing. Estimates of the death toll in Dresden in February 1945 hover at about 35,000. All the same, some historians claim that as many as 500,000 people were killed in the raids.

Strictly speaking, the word "holocaust," which comes from the ancient Greek for "burnt", might seem apt for Dresden, much of it immolated by the fires started by the RAF's incendiary bombs.

But its primary meaning is now so closely linked to the Nazis' treatment of the Jews that such etymology appears to be in bad taste.

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TETENAL
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Apr 13, 2005, 04:20 AM
 
Your title is a little bit misleading. According to the article the prosecution didn't "rule Dresden was a holocaust", they are just not taking legal action against people who say that.

I guess the Telegraph is "outraged" because it doesn't want to be reminded of its country's own war-crimes.
     
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Apr 13, 2005, 06:56 AM
 
The ruling says claiming `Dresded was a holocaust (by bombs)' is not illegal.

(Background info: Denying the crimes during the Third Reich is a crime.)
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DeathToWindows
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Apr 14, 2005, 11:28 AM
 
well, considering that the term holocaust means "death by fire" it's semantically appropiate for several instances of bombing during the second world war... dresden, tokyo...

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Shaddim
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Apr 14, 2005, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by DeathToWindows
well, considering that the term holocaust means "death by fire" it's semantically appropiate for several instances of bombing during the second world war... dresden, tokyo...
True. However, compared to Tokyo, Dresden was a small brush fire.
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Apr 14, 2005, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
True. However, compared to Tokyo, Dresden was a small brush fire.
I wouldn't call 35000 casualties (mostly refugees, women and children) a brush fire. The death toll in Tokyo was around 85000 (if I remember correctly), so it was roughly half to a third of the size.
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Shaddim
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Apr 14, 2005, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
I wouldn't call 35000 casualties (mostly refugees, women and children) a brush fire. The death toll in Tokyo was around 85000 (if I remember correctly), so it was roughly half to a third of the size.
The conservative estimates for Tokyo are 120K, compared to 35K for Dresden. That's well in excess of 3x.

Yes, Dresden was horrible, but what LeMay did was a bonified "War Crime".
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Apr 15, 2005, 04:25 AM
 
I agree. But in my opinion, also Dresden is a war crime. If you are counting bodies in the thousands, then it doesn't make `much of a difference' (I don't wanna sound cynical, so I added quotation marks).
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Apr 15, 2005, 04:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
The conservative estimates for Tokyo are 120K, compared to 35K for Dresden. That's well in excess of 3x.

Yes, Dresden was horrible, but what LeMay did was a bonified "War Crime".
Killing 1 person is a bone fide war crime, if there is no military justification for the death.
     
   
 
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