[Doofy]

Originally Posted by subego 

He's illustrating a logical inconsistency, or a double standard, depending upon how you want to slice it.

I know he's talking about a logicial inconsistency. But why? I'm not even discussing the difference between bi and gay - I'm only discussing straight vs not straight. It's not my problem if whoever wrote the OP article doesn't know the difference between bi and gay, is it?

F me, you lot are hard work.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

It's not my problem if whoever wrote the OP article doesn't know the difference between bi and gay, is it?

You tell me. I'm not the one getting questioned.

[Jawbone54]

I usually steer clear from the Political/War Lounge, but I had to chime in on this one...

I pluck my eyebrows (if I didn't, they would become overgrown and cover most of the Southeastern U.S.), I own an iPad (thanks, Doofy), I use a facial moisturizer at times (shaving dries my face out), I trim my arm/chest hair, and I am "particular about the landscape of my home," but I am not nor have I ever been attracted to a dude. What I'm saying is that I'm not exactly lumberjack material.

BUT...If a guy lifts weights, plays football, and eats molten lava for breakfast, he's still at least bisexual the moment he starts "experimenting" with guys. I'm in the guys-don't-experiment camp, and I'm convinced so-called straight girls experiment only to make onlooking guys more interested in them. There's a few easy classifications: heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, and asexual.

Guy who likes women? Hetero. Guy who likes women, but starts "snogging" other guys? Hello, bisexual.

Also, thanks to Doofy for introducing "snogging" into the Jawbone lexicon.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Guy who likes women? Hetero. Guy who likes women, but starts "snogging" other guys? Hello, bisexual.

Also, thanks to Doofy for introducing "snogging" into the Jawbone lexicon.

Let me clarify the Brit meaning of "snogging". 'Tis just kissing (albeit a very low class word to use, favoured by chavs and other assorted lowlife). Hence, I can see the laugh factor.

As example of said laugh, here's a real life situation I've seen: Bloke A ribbing bloke B for being a bit pansy - "give us a kiss you big puftie", etc.. Bloke B, for a laugh, lurches forward and plants one on bloke A. Bloke A falls over in shock. Everyone laughs. Everyone knows there's no actual intent and neither bloke fancies other blokes in the slightest, thus no actual "experimentation". Everyone carries on drinking.

I wouldn't do it, but I can appreciate how it can happen as a laugh without any actual gayness/bi-ness occurring.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Yeah, yeah, heard it all before.

"I'm a vegetarian except when I eat chicken".
"I'm an anarchist except on Wednesdays when ER is on".

Still, a new one for the file:
"I'm straight except when I smoke pole".

I think you made my point for me! Do you REALLY only consider someone a vegetarian if they've NEVER tried meat? To me that definition of vegetarian is too strict and so is your definition of straight.

If you talking about people who sleep with guys on wednesdays, then of course they are bi or gay but you were saying before is that if someone has EVER tried dick then they're not straight. (And I've never heard the preferences broken down into those two categories before: straight and not-straight. You really are reading and writing your own book.)

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

If you talking about people who sleep with guys on wednesdays, then of course they are bi or gay but you were saying before is that if someone has EVER tried dick then they're not straight.

No straight bloke would ever contemplate trying sausage in the first place. Period.

Every straight bloke knows this.

[besson3c]

Abe allowed some dude to smoke his sausage, does that make him gay?

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No straight bloke would ever contemplate trying sausage in the first place. Period.

Every straight bloke knows this.

Of course they wouldn't contemplate it! I never said that!


They'd do it without thinking and try to put it out of their minds by protesting on the internet over and over that they'd never ever do such a thing and that no other straight guy could possibly do it either ;-]

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

They'd do it without thinking and try to put it out of their minds by protesting on the internet over and over that they'd never ever do such a thing and that no other straight guy could possibly do it either ;-]

Oh dear. You used the "everyone who doesn't think that everyone is gay is gay" argument.

Discussion over.

[andi*pandi]

His exwife is. Or maybe she's bi, by the rules of this thread. She's nice, either way.

I'm more in favor of a 3-strikes rule of experimentation, and after that you've crossed the line.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Oh dear. You used the "everyone who doesn't think that everyone is gay is gay" argument.

Discussion over.

Well you have to admit that straight people that go on and on about gay people always turn out to be closet cases later. Normal straight people don't even hardly discuss the subject and certainly don't claim to be experts on what other straight people do and what experiences they've had etc. Why would you be so hard line on what would get you thrown out of the straight and narrow club if you weren't freaked out by something inside yourself calling you to cross it? Normal straight people say they've thought about it or tried something once or twice in college and it didn't do anything for them. They don't stand at the door to heterosexuality checking everyone for any signs of impurity. Or they might say they never tried it but they don't go on about how no straight guy has ever touched another guys balls ever.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

His exwife is. Or maybe she's bi, by the rules of this thread. She's nice, either way.

I'm more in favor of a 3-strikes rule of experimentation, and after that you've crossed the line.

Wait, what? Whose ex-wife? You've lost me.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Why would you be so hard line on what would get you thrown out of the straight and narrow club if you weren't freaked out by something inside yourself calling you to cross it?

Have you read a Doofy post before? Everything's black and white. I'm not sure why you'd expect this issue to be any different, unless you also suspect he's a closet liberal, Muslim, woman, carnivore, techno music fan.

[screener]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Have you read a Doofy post before? Everything's black and white. I'm not sure why you'd expect this issue to be any different, unless you also suspect he's a closet liberal, Muslim, woman, carnivore, techno music fan.

Gay, Bi.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Well you have to admit that straight people that go on and on about gay people always turn out to be closet cases later.

I'm not going on and on about gay people. I'm talking about straight people.

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Normal straight people don't even hardly discuss the subject

Unless they're in a thread being argued with by someone who hasn't got the slightest clue about what they're on about.

Originally Posted by mrtew 

and certainly don't claim to be experts on what other straight people do and what experiences they've had etc.

Yet you, as a bi, are claiming to be an expert on what straight people do and what experiences they've had.

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Why would you be so hard line on what would get you thrown out of the straight and narrow club if you weren't freaked out by something inside yourself calling you to cross it?

I gave my opinion. Several gay people and a few straight people accepted that opinion. You, for some reason, don't.

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Normal straight people say they've thought about it or tried something once or twice in college and it didn't do anything for them.

No they don't.

Originally Posted by mrtew 

They don't stand at the door to heterosexuality checking everyone for any signs of impurity.

You have mental issues.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Have you read a Doofy post before? Everything's black and white.

So, Lammy... Why don't you stop being a Brian and actually comment on the subject matter at hand.

How often do you think about smoking pole?

[screener]

Is that the lingo?
Smoking pole?
Aficionado much.

[besson3c]

I believe in the sliding scale of sexuality theories. Some people just try to aggressively claim that they are on side of the scale or try to crank themselves over to one side for often questionable reasons.

I don't agree that everybody has experimented, particularly those who are at one end of the scale, but I'm sure that most of us have at least thought about all sorts of things.

It is fun to wonder what those reasons are for those people that go around calling people fags and getting all hostile about this sort of stuff, at least the subset of these people that are not homophobic.

[The Final Dakar]

What's the old saying? A man can **** as many women as he wants, but suck one dick and he's gay forever.

[besson3c]

Dakar: how old is that saying? Grandparents old?

[Oisín]

Why don't you stop being a Brian

I didn’t realise this expression existed in English, too. Does a Brian usually drive a tuned-up (illegally, that is) moped and have loud, airheaded conversations about spark plugs on his BlingPhone, while trying to keep his over-baggy trousers from falling down around his feet?

Or is being a Brian something different from what it means here after all?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I believe in the sliding scale of sexuality theories. Some people just try to aggressively claim that they are on side of the scale or try to crank themselves over to one side for often questionable reasons.

No. This is lib bullshit. Period.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I don't agree that everybody has experimented, particularly those who are at one end of the scale, but I'm sure that most of us have at least thought about all sorts of things.

By "us" do you mean Canuckistanis or libs?

There is no scale. Some things simply are black and white. Allow me to illustrate:

Do you have a penis?
Are you pregnant?
Do you have a pilot's licence?
Have you ever been to Rome?

See? Black and white.
The fact that you libs think that nothing is black and white is utterly moronic.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

I didn’t realise this expression existed in English, too. Does a Brian usually drive a tuned-up (illegally, that is) moped and have loud, airheaded conversations about spark plugs on his BlingPhone, while trying to keep his over-baggy trousers from falling down around his feet?

Or is being a Brian something different from what it means here after all?

It's one of mine.



^ Brian ^

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No. This is lib bullshit. Period.



By "us" do you mean Canuckistanis or libs?

There is no scale. Some things simply are black and white. Allow me to illustrate:

Do you have a penis?
Are you pregnant?
Do you have a pilot's licence?
Have you ever been to Rome?

See? Black and white.
The fact that you libs think that nothing is black and white is utterly moronic.

So your theory as to why the theory is moronic is because there are some things in life that are black and white?

Not a very well constructed argument, certainly one that does not match the righteousness in which you have denounced the theory.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No. This is lib bullshit. Period.

What happened to just expressing an opinion?

By "us" do you mean Canuckistanis or libs?

‘People’, I think.

There is no scale. Some things simply are black and white.

Sexuality isn’t one of them, though.

I quite agree with Besson (and loads of others) that sexuality works on a scale. Some people have never experienced any attraction whatsoever to anyone of their own gender, and have never even considered trying it out, even just to see what it’s like; others were curious to see what it was all about, but once they tried it decided/discovered it wasn’t for them; others found they quite liked it, but also quite liked it with people of the opposite gender. And the same three basic categories are found starting from the other end of the spectrum with those who never experienced any attraction whatsoever to anyone of their own gender.

Personally, I can’t recall ever feeling any kind of sexual attraction towards anyone female, so I guess I fall quite close to the latter of these categories (or a Kinsey 6 [or is it 1?], or whatever). But I know people who fall into all six categories, and ultimately, I believe your sexuality is determined by how you consider yourself. Not by how others consider you. If you tried out some experimental stuff with someone of the opposite gender from what you’re normally attracted to, quickly discovered that that was a mistake and definitely nothing you’re interested in repeating, and as a result are even more convinced than before that you are purely straight/gay, then I say you’re straight/gay. There’s no need to force someone into a sexual box they don’t want to belong to, and don’t feel like they belong to.

[besson3c]

What I don't understand is why some people feel so confident that because their personal life experiences are one way that this is the same for everybody.

I mean, isn't it illogical to go on thinking "no way it is that way, I've never experienced what you are describing, what you are describing is completely foreign to me", and then having strong opinions about what is foreign to you?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

I quite agree with Besson (and loads of others) that sexuality works on a scale.

Yes, it does work on a scale:

- Asexual.
- Straight.
- Bi.
- Gay.

Split the "bisexual" bit into a zillion little subsections if you like - it won't make any difference to the fact that bisexual is bisexual.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What I don't understand is why some people feel so confident that because their personal life experiences are one way that this is the same for everybody.

Maybe because they've met and talked to thousands of people?

[screener]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Doofus.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by screener 

Doofus.

You're a clever one, ain't ya?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Maybe because they've met and talked to thousands of people?

Sorry dude, this is debate fail.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Sorry dude, this is debate fail.

Look dude, it's quite obvious to anyone with an IQ over 70 points that Kinsey, the father of this "scale" thinking, was nothing more than a complete pervert who sought a way to bring his fantasies into reality under a sheen of validity in the then oppressive social structures of 1940s Amerikkka.

Why don't you conduct a poll and see how many non-Canuckistani straight guys have ever considered playing with sausage (other than their own).

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

pole

Where's your mind right now, hmmmmmmm?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Look dude, it's quite obvious to anyone with an IQ over 70 points that Kinsey, the father of this "scale" thinking, was nothing more than a complete pervert who sought a way to bring his fantasies into reality under a sheen of validity in the then oppressive social structures of 1940s Amerikkka.

Why don't you conduct a poll and see how many non-Canuckistani straight guys have ever considered playing with sausage (other than their own).

So, your argument is that this theory is bull because you think that Kinsey was a pervert and the social structures of the 40s were oppressive? If so, this is only marginally better than your last argument.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Where's your mind right now, hmmmmmmm?

On the Polish chick who offered to polish my pole yesterday.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

So, Lammy... Why don't you stop being a Brian and actually comment on the subject matter at hand.

How often do you think about smoking pole?

No need to get defensive, I wasn't attacking. Brian

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I believe in the sliding scale of sexuality theories. Some people just try to aggressively claim that they are on side of the scale or try to crank themselves over to one side for often questionable reasons.

How do you tell the difference between someone claiming to be at one end of the scale and someone that actually is?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

So, your argument is that this theory is bull because you think that Kinsey was a pervert and the social structures of the 40s were oppressive? If so, this is only marginally better than your last argument.

Just do a f'ing poll and we'll see what the answer is. And I'm not talking about a poll as to what people believe, but a poll as to how many straight guys have ever considered messing with sausage.

Prove that Kinsey's scale is accurate and that there aren't simply straight, bi and gay categories.

[besson3c]

Doofy: my point is that you seem very quick to generalize.

I believe that conservatives and libertarians are very quick to generalize about things, and in doing so come to extremely foolish and flawed conclusions. I have met and spoke with thousands of people that believe or reaffirm this belief.

See what I did here?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

No need to get defensive, I wasn't attacking. Brian



How do you tell the difference between someone claiming to be at one end of the scale and someone that actually is?

Usually their level of comfort and insistence, although this is obviously a flawed way of making this determination. There really isn't a way.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Just do a f'ing poll and we'll see what the answer is. And I'm not talking about a poll as to what people believe, but a poll as to how many straight guys have ever considered messing with sausage.

Prove that Kinsey's scale is accurate and that there aren't simply straight, bi and gay categories.

So, a poll will discount all of Kinsey's work?

I guess since 18% of people feel that Obama is a Muslim there really might be some credence to these beliefs, huh?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Doofy: my point is that you seem very quick to generalize.

Unlike yourself, of course.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

So, a poll will discount all of Kinsey's work?

Why don't you create one and we'll see.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I guess since 18% of people feel that Obama is a Muslim there really might be some credence to these beliefs, huh?

Sorry Bess but short of having a lobotomy I can't figure out what you're trying to say here.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Why don't you create one and we'll see.

You missed my point, so I suppose a discussion about sample size would also be pointless...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

You missed my point, so I suppose a discussion about sample size would also be pointless...

Stop making excuses and make a poll.

[Oisín]

Just do a f'ing poll and we'll see what the answer is. And I'm not talking about a poll as to what people believe, but a poll as to how many straight guys have ever considered messing with sausage.

How would that prove or convince you of anything? The straight guys who’d reply in the affirmative would simply be discounted by you as not being straight, and therefore invalid votes.

Basically, I don’t care how you classify sexualities in your own mind—it’s your mind, and you’re free to do with it what you want. But telling someone who considers themselves straight that, sorry, no you’re not, based on your own personal criteria … that’s pretty unnecessarily offensive to that person.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

The straight guys who’d reply in the affirmative would simply be discounted by you as not being straight

You miss the point of the exercise. I want to see if you can actually find someone who calls themselves straight and admits to dreaming about sausage. I don't believe you'll find such a person.

I've met a lot of people. I've met straights. I've met gays. I've met bisexuals. I've never once met anyone who thinks they're straight and has the bum fun. Never.
And, I'll wager, neither have you.

[The Final Dakar]

I bet Jimmy Dean dreamed about sausage.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

Basically, I don’t care how you classify sexualities in your own mind—it’s your mind, and you’re free to do with it what you want. But telling someone who considers themselves straight that, sorry, no you’re not, based on your own personal criteria … that’s pretty unnecessarily offensive to that person.

Do you get offended when other people put you in a little box?
Throw a tantrum when some calls you a "Scandi" or "linguist"?

No, of course not.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Stop making excuses and make a poll.

Are you kidding? A poll *here* will determine the correctness of this issue with finality?

Please tell me this is a joke...

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I've met a lot of people. I've met straights. I've met gays. I've met bisexuals. I've never once met anyone who thinks they're straight and has the bum fun. Never.

Not someone who “has the bum fun”, no. But I have met many people (several of which are friends) who consider themselves straight and don’t go around having or dreaming/thinking about having sex with people of their own gender, but who have at some point in their life, perhaps on a drunken night out, tried it out with someone of their own gender once or twice, just to see what it was all about.