[d4nth3m4n]

ok, i posted this on a saturn forum (so glad ca$h isn't here anymore to flame me about this car)

might be a little technical and specific for teh 'NN, but here goes.

my mazda is dying, i need a new cheap car (~$500)

i have a dead saturn (read quote) that needs either a new head or a new engine, it blows smoke because of leaky rings, but i can live with that in the name of a otherwise pretty solid $400-$500 car.

do you think it's worth it to semi resurrect this car? drop $400 on a temp fix and then either scrap this car or fix it proper when i have more money?

i'm tending to think so. it's still MUCH more solid than anything i'm likely to find up here in the rust best for that price. it will blow smoke, but i think that's worth it too.

i drive 250 miles a week, and my current car is pulling 12MPG and the saturn will pull 35MPG + a quart of oil ($2 for arguments sake) every 20 gallons of gas. gas is $2.

seem worth it to anyone else?

EDIT- looks like it'll be about four months for the change in mileage and all that to pay for itself. but in the meantime i get a much better ride, and the ability to go more than 40mph without redlining. i'm going to do it. provided i can talk my uncle into it.

post on saturn forum for anyone too lazy to read it from the link i posted.-

i work full time as a delivery driver (+/- 40 hours a week/ 250 miles a week.) at the moment i am driving a beat '88 626, but recently the auto trans has gone south on me. i can only get into first and second gear. i'm pulling like 12MPG.

here is the deal- i just went fulltime about two weeks ago and need a new car as this one is liable to die any day now.

my usually tact has been to buy a cheap car >$500 and drive it into the ground.

BUT

i have a 94 SL1 (SOHC, gold four door with ~150k) sitting in in my mechanics (my uncle) parking lot. i broke a spark plug off in the head and the proceeded to break off an EZout in the remainder of the plug. i can't just drill it out go at it that way, as i'll likely kill my engine from the shavings in the cylinder (#3).

originally, the plan was to get a '97 SOHC engine with 46k and do a full swap i was told it was feasible, just something about modifying the throttle budy. i was quoted at $1500 for a new engine ($425), pads, rotors, muffler and other stuff to get this car 100% for the foreseeable future.

cash is tight at the moment, but i'm thinking that maybe i should just swap the head and get a muffler and live with this car burning oil. (it was roughly a quart/500 miles before i killed this car while learning that 1/2" drive sockets on a warm engine are a bad way to get plugs out.

as my uncle is my mechanic, i think i can do this rather cheaply, probably like $400 for a head and the labor attached and a new muffler. how much do new heads run for a SOHC '94 saturn?

what i'd really like to know is whether the rings or the valve seals are largely responsible for the smoky saturn syndrome.

cliffs notes-

• fulltime delivery driver.
• dying car
• need new car (>$800)
• is the smoking from the rings or the valve seals?
• wonder if a new head would be worth it on a '94 SOHC that blew a lot of smoke
• would like to know what a new head will run
• what do you think of this idea?

this car is CLEAN. it was a conn. car, and unlike here (upstate NY where they salt the roads in the winter) they use sand to handle snow so the car is in really good shape.

i'm thinking this isn't the worst idea. i can swap the engine later, and i know for a fact that the shocks, tranny and everything else on this car is good. the brakes are worn, but still have life. not to mention that 35MPG will help this car to pay for itself in no time as i'm pulling 12 now. not to mention that this car will most likely be the best $400 car i'll ever find.

thoughts?

[Randman]

Make sure that amount is going to fix the problems. Shot O-rings are never a good sign. $400 for a repair is decent, but not if it's going to turn into a sinkhole, nickle-and-diming you to death.

[d4nth3m4n]

oh, it's $400 for me to do it. i make pretty good money, and this is only a temp fix. so i'm not all that worried about it. it can go ahead and die as long as it'll make it until feb or so when i'll have enough cash to make a down payment on something a little nicer.


this-



or this-

[Spliffdaddy]

Smoke while accelerating is caused by worn or broken piston rings (not good). This is fairly uncommon, and is characterized by exhaust smoke that increases under engine load.

Smoke while idling - and/or a big puff of smoke when initially accelerating from a stop usually means worn valve guides. The high vacuum condition (in the intake) when the throttle is closed tends to suck oil past the valve stems and (worn) guides. The engine will smoke at idle, then smoke a lot during initial acceleration - but the smoke tapers-off under load. When you lift the throttle, or decelerate, it smokes. I'd guess the problem with your car lies here.

Replacing the cylinder head (or the guides and valves) would go a looong way to keeping the vehicle serviceable. Certainly worth the effort.

Don't try to swap the entire engine with another one from a different year. You just won't believe how many little parts get changed from one year to the next. Exhaust manifolds, fuel injection components, and motor mounts vary quite a lot - depending on whether the car has an automatic or manual transmission. Accessory mounting points on the block and heads may not exist on all years' models of that engine. Or they may have moved.

I've done several engine swaps, just as you propose doing, and none of them went smoothly.

Swap the cylinder head *only* and you can be driving the same day. Hopefully your engine's problem lies in the cylinder head. A simple vacuum gauge will tell you what's wrong. If the engine still runs at all.

[d4nth3m4n]

well spliffy the deal with this is that my uncle is well known as one of the best mechanics in the area, and i'll be using his shop. he seems to think that a 97 swap is doable. so on that front i think i'm cool.

while i've no doubt that the new head will help things on the oil burning front, i think the rings are suspect as well. it was a design flaw with the first gen of saturns. i don't know what the deal is, but nearly every one of them i've seen blows some amount of smoke.

i'm going to do it. i just have to find the time. hmm.

[Spliffdaddy]

It helps to have some experience on your side.

The last engine swap I attempted was a nightmare. I think VW changes *every* component on their engines twice a year...only to move things around about 4 millimeters. And they'll flip the intake runners 180 degrees - for no apparent reason. Or just so you'll kick yourself after you scrap the old intake days ago, and find out you needed it today. Because they flipped the mofo around and you didn't notice until you had the new engine almost buttoned-up. But hey that's just me.

[d4nth3m4n]

update:

gave up on the sl1. picked up a festiva instead! (oh man...) it was $250 needs a muffler, but still passed inspection, and sips gas like it's going out of style. PERFECT car to beat up on delivering food to people.

i guess festivus started on the 23rd this year. i'll get some pics up in the next coupld of days so you can bask in the glory of this beast.

[ChrisF]

Not that this really solves your problem but I live in CT and there's no shortage of salt used on the roads here.

[d4nth3m4n]

yeah, i know, but sometimes it's sand. the saturn was flawless. i think she garaged it and washed it all the time. it was amazing to be under that car. unlike anything from here that is 11 years old, on that car you could actually loosen bolts without heating them up or hitting them with a hammer first.

oh well, festivus is up on me.