Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Election 2012 Challenge

Election 2012 Challenge
Thread Tools
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 21, 2011, 09:46 PM
 
Okay, so we've got some moderates and some leftist members. In view of his term up to this point, who among you are planning to vote to reelect Barack Hussein Obama? And for those who are, why in the world would you?

Do you get off on seeing this country take on water like the Titanic? Or do you actually think he's done a competent job of leading the country? (Certainly he's done a competent job of transforming us to resemble Greece, I'll concede that point.) I'd love honest replies - I'll refrain from attacking you for honest opinions. I just don't see how anyone who cares about the future of this country could vote for him. The first time around some of you could claim ignorance more easily, but now he has an horrendous record you can't ignore.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Dec 21, 2011 at 09:56 PM. )

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 21, 2011, 09:52 PM
 
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 21, 2011, 10:53 PM
 
Assuming the Libertarians can field someone who isn't a total asshole, they'll get my protest vote.
     
Big Mac  (op)
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 21, 2011, 11:10 PM
 
Okay. So far the silence is deafening from supporters of this administration.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 21, 2011, 11:57 PM
 
If it's any use, Biggie, my Faceybook feed chatter seems to suggest that Barry's going to win because (1) all the black chicks will vote for him because he's black and (2) all the other libs will vote for him because they're not aware of how crap he is.
Hence, Kool Aid pic.

Another four years. Sorry dude.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 01:09 AM
 
To me he seems like GWB II. Since I didn't like Bush I can't say that I'll be voting for Obama.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 02:07 AM
 
This thread looks like great fun and a wonderful use of time!


P.S. I was being sarcastic...
     
Athens
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 04:10 AM
 
If I lived in the US I would because no other better options are out there. I would hope the house ends up all dem's as well so the stalemate government would end and real work could be done.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 04:58 AM
 
Candidate Obama promised to solve the problems we had at the end of the Bush administration.

Get spending under control, promote government transparency, bring our troops home, restore our image in the middle east, bring accountability for crimes committed under the previous administration (foreign torture, missing documents about same, etc), close Guantánamo, oppose immunity for the warrantless wiretap people, honor separation-of-powers limits on presidential war powers. Also, he was the only candidate who wasn't fully committed to the copyright lobby's positions. He even liked whistleblowing heros, who risk everything to expose government or corporate misdeeds.

I voted for Candidate Obama because the country could not afford another Bush administration. However, this did not work out as expected. President Obama has largely continued Bush policies, or even extended them. Of the promises I was concerned about, he has broken all of them.

I will not be voting for Barak Obama in 2012. His word is no good.
     
Athens
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 05:01 AM
 
His word or the US government structure. Its been a stalemate government. Most of what you pointed out can't get done by the president alone. This is where the US political system shows its greatest weakness.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
ghporter
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 07:44 AM
 
For the last several presidential contests, I've only been given the choice to vote against the candidate I dislike most. I'm not alone. This is a sad commentary on our political process. Robert Heinlein (through Lazarus Long) noted that one should vote - paraphrasing: "there may be no candidate you want to vote for, but there will certainly be one you want to vote against." He was quite wise in this observation.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 08:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
His word or the US government structure. Its been a stalemate government. Most of what you pointed out can't get done by the president alone. This is where the US political system shows its greatest weakness.
His signature legislation and only accomplishment while Dems controlled both the House and Senate for more than two years was health care reform. He could've done many of the things he promised to do with the alleged "mandate" he had going into office, but he focused his entire efforts on this singular accomplishment. An accomplishment he had to grant waivers from to Unions to get their support, he had to grant States Obamacare waivers to get their support, and he had to straight up bribe a Nebraska Democrat with waivers and perks for his State to get his support.

It was piss-poor legislation laden with slimy, back-door shenanigans evidenced by the fact that the only thing people want from Obama's accomplishment, Democrats and Republicans alike, is a way out of it. I'm not in favor of giving this President 4 more years to learn how to lead. Time to go.
ebuddy
     
CreepDogg
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 01:40 PM
 
Isn't Romney pretty much the same dude? Would it make a difference?

Does anyone think President Romney would control the deficit better than President Obama? (I don't.)

So, as usual, it will come down to a personality contest, with lots of bickering and negative attack ads along the way. Yay!

I'll vote for whoever shows me more of a point of view and less propensity to just go with the prevailing wind. I have no idea who that will be at this point.
     
nonhuman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Assuming the Libertarians can field someone who isn't a total asshole, they'll get my protest vote.
It seems all but guaranteed that Gary Johnson will be leaving the Republican Party for the Libertarian party, and then very likely that he'll be the LP nominee. He will almost certainly get my vote.

I do, however, depending on how the primaries go, intend to register Republican (currently independent) to vote for Ron Paul. I don't think I'd actually want Paul to be President (although maybe more so than I want Obama to remain President), but I think his winning the nomination could have serious and positive ramifications for the Republican Party.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 02:41 PM
 
Unfortunately, where I live, most Democrats run unopposed. If you register as a Republican in the primary, you have effectively disenfranchised yourself from all local politics.

That being said, I was considering doing just that to vote for McCain in 2000, but he was already out by the time our primary rolled around, so I voted for Al Sharpton.
     
nonhuman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Unfortunately, where I live, most Democrats run unopposed. If you register as a Republican in the primary, you have effectively disenfranchised yourself from all local politics.

That being said, I was considering doing just that to vote for McCain in 2000, but he was already out by the time our primary rolled around, so I voted for Al Sharpton.
Here too (DC), sadly. Last year we elected a new mayor. The Republicans didn't even field a candidate, so the Democratic primaries were, literally, the election that mattered, and one that I was not able to participate in. There's not much point in being registered Democrat this year, as there won't be a Presidential or mayoral primary, but I'm thinking I'll probably end up registering Democrat just so that I can actually have a say.
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 02:52 PM
 
All the more reason primaries should be open.
     
nonhuman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
All the more reason primaries should be open.
I definitely agree.

I would also consider moving to a proportional representation system. (Ha! Fat chance!)
     
The Final Dakar
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 03:02 PM
 
Had to google it, don't think I really grasp it, but what the hell, I'll give it a chance.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 05:03 PM
 
I had to as well. My off-the-cuff issue with it is who would set the party platforms, but as I think about it, that may not matter, since if you don't like the platform you can jump to another party, or hell... make your own.
     
nonhuman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 05:29 PM
 
     
Uncle Skeleton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 07:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by weekly world news
Bill Clinton likes Hillary’s chances. “Hillary is going to crush Obama. And the country is going to get two for one. We are back, baby. We’re back!!”
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2011, 08:01 PM
 
Bill Clinton was on the O'Reilly factor last night. Hmm. Maybe Aliens did swoop up cheerleaders.
ebuddy
     
OAW
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 23, 2011, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Okay, so we've got some moderates and some leftist members. In view of his term up to this point, who among you are planning to vote to reelect Barack Hussein Obama? And for those who are, why in the world would you?
I've followed politics long enough to know that no President is ever going to be able to do 100% of what you would like him to do. For that to happen he'd have to A) be a dictator, and B) espouse policies that are exactly as you would have them. And that's just not reality. So for me, my voting choices come down to 1) vote for the candidate that most closely espouses my views with regard to policy, or 2) stand down and not vote at all. What I don't do ... quite unlike a lot of the American electorate ... is look around at the state of the economy on Election Day and if it's not in the best shape blindly vote for the other guy who's not in office. The reason being is that the person not in office may very well be espousing the same policies that created the economic conditions in the first place.

So to answer your question directly, yes I will be voting to re-elect Barack Obama. Why? Not voting in a presidential election is borderline anathema to me given the struggles my ancestors went through to obtain the right to vote. And I certainly don't have enough reason to stand down in light of that ... despite the areas where I've been disappointed by this President.

Originally Posted by Big Mac
Do you get off on seeing this country take on water like the Titanic? Or do you actually think he's done a competent job of leading the country?
The reality is that this country was taking on water like the Titanic the day he was sworn in. To the tune of 1+ trillion a year. So if he had literally done nothing ... there would still be at least 3 additional trillion added to the national debt at this stage in the game.



Do I think he's done a competent job in light of the fact that he's had to deal with one crisis after another since Day 1 of his administration? Most definitely. Here's why ....

- Instituted policies that staved off another Great Depression and put the economy back on track to recovery with the American Recovery And Reinvestment Act resulting in approximately 3.3 million jobs per the CBO.

- Saved the US auto industry from collapse. Prevented millions of job losses that would have occurred if the industry had been allowed to go trough traditional bankruptcy or liquidated.

- Instituted the most far-reaching financial reform (albeit still watered down) in US history in response to the financial crisis with the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.

- Instituted the most major health care reform legislation since the introduction of Medicare with Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

- Payroll tax cut and extension of unemployment benefits resulting in additional economic stimulus.

- Unemployment rate of 7.7% when Obama took office while the economy was in a free fall with 750K job losses per month. Peaked at 10.1%. Currently at 8.6% ... less than a full % point from when his term began.

- Repealed DADT.

- Instituted equal pay for women with the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

- Extension of Benefits to Same-Sex Domestic Partners of Federal Employees by Presidential Memorandum.

- Pushed through a settlement in the black farmers lawsuit against USDA in the Pigford case.

- Greatly reduced sentencing disparities between powder and crack cocaine.

- Instituted major student loan reform with the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act saving 68 billion over 11 years and increased funding for Pell Grants for low-income students.

- Instituted the Race to the Top Fund ($4.35 billion) to reward States that create comprehensive education reform plans.

- Successfully managed the BP oil spill crisis. Eliminate the Minerals Management Service thereby cutting ties between industry and government in response. Implemented new safety rules for offshore drilling.

- Ordered the creation of a $20 billion escrow fund by BP to reimburse lost incomes in Gulf.
Ordered an additional $100 million to compensate those hurt by drilling moratorium while safety rules were re-assessed.

- Ordered and completed the full military withdrawal from Iraq.

- Stepped up military efforts in Afghanistan reversing Taliban momentum. Set a timeline for full military withdrawal.

- Located and killed Osama bin Laden.

- Dramatically escalated the drone war in Pakistan and decimated senior Al Qaeda leadership ... severely degrading its operational capacity.

- Nuclear arms reduction agreement with Russia.

- Initiated military effort to prevent a massacre of Libyan civilians by Moammar Qadaffi's forces. US leadership via NATO eventually toppled Qaddafi. No US casualties ... no US boots on the ground ... over in a matter of months. (In full disclosure, I didn't think we should have gotten involved but it's hard to argue with success.)

- Recommitted the U.S. to a policy of “no torture” and closed secret prisons in Eastern Europe and other locations.

And that's not even an exhaustive list. Are there areas where I've been disappointed in Obama? Certainly ....

- Didn't close Guantanamo Bay prison. IMO, he went about it all wrong. He's the Commander in Chief. If you want it closed then issue the order and transfer the prisoners to military prisons on US soil. Don't go talking about it so much giving your political opponents (and allies) the opportunity to drum up opposition and block funding. Just do it and then announce it after the fact.

- I would have preferred to see the Patriot Act repealed or significantly scaled back. Having said that, there have been no successful terrorist attacks in the US under his watch so perhaps it's doing some good especially since there doesn't seem to be a widespread erosion of civil liberties. Of course, that's easy to say when you or people you know aren't being directly affected by it. To your knowledge.

- It's taken Obama waaaay too long to recognize that the GOP in Congress is taking his kindness and willingness to reach bi-partisan solutions as weakness. Given the unprecedented levels of obstruction on the part of the GOP since the beginning of his Presidency, it should be readily apparent that they are not interested in compromising with him. As Sen. McConnell said their #1 priority is his re-election defeat. Just think about the arrogance and disrespect it takes to say something like that on the record about a sitting President! Obama should have told the GOP to kick rocks during the Continuing Budget Resolution (CBR) debate in Spring 2011 and the Debt Ceiling debate in Summer 2011. At least on one of them. It's good to see him finally stand strong and force the House GOP to play ball with the Payroll Tax Cut Extension he just signed. The only thing is he shouldn't need the Senate GOP to give him enough cover to pushback against the Tea Party faction in the House GOP.

- All the political pressure he's applying to the GOP about his jobs bill since the end of Summer 2011 should have been done last year. It should have been the American Jobs Act of 2010 instead of 2011. It was obvious at that point that the GOP was more than willing to see the economy still in the doldrums in order to saddle Obama with it in the 2012 elections. Not just willing ... actively sabotaging efforts to promote economic growth for that very purpose by opposing any and everything that would increase aggregate demand ... and pushing for policies that would reduce aggregate demand. The American public by and large supports the President's positions when it comes to jobs and taxes. When people have shown you repeatedly that they are not willing to negotiate in good faith ... when their definition of "common ground" is a lot of what they want and little to none of what you want ... then it's time to stop trying to be the Compromiser in Chief and be the President. Use the bully pulpit to light a fire under their ass all around the country. Obama's approval ratings have increased 5 percentage points over the last month or so as a result of these efforts and the public's increasing disillusionment with Congress in general and the Tea Party faction within it in particular. That's after only a few months of concerted efforts on Obama's part. Now imagine what his approval ratings would be if he had been doing that since last year?

In any event, my criticisms aside .... it's hard to argue with this when it comes to whether or not President Obama deserves re-election given the state of the economy when he was inaugurated:



An economy run off the cliff. Job losses in a total free fall. Arrested and reversed promptly as a result of bold action pushed by President Obama. Moving in the right direction ever since.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Dec 23, 2011 at 06:41 PM. )
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 23, 2011, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
- Successfully managed the BP oil spill crisis.
You were doing fine up until this.
     
OAW
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 23, 2011, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You were doing fine up until this.
Fair enough. We all have our perspective naturally. I suppose for me it comes down to how he managed the federal response to the crisis because that's what he could impact. He couldn't directly impact BP's response since its a private sector company. After all he's a President ... not a King.

OAW
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 23, 2011, 07:19 PM
 
He's in direct control of the Coast Guard. He should have ganked the Commandant for being a lying sack of shit.

This of course presupposes the Commandant wasn't ordered to be a lying sack of shit.

Neither scenario is good.
     
ebuddy
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: midwest
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 24, 2011, 12:51 PM
 
Merry Christmas to the Obama family and all his supporters.
ebuddy
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 24, 2011, 05:33 PM
 
And to the hard working men and women of the Coast Guard.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,