[John B. Smith]

Hello.

I have a(nother) big problem folks... I'm purchasing a notebook computer this week. And so I face the Question: PC or PowerBook?

The PC that I am considering is the thinkpad that is configured as follows:

1.2GHZ PIII
14.1" XGA Screen
512mb RAM
20gig HD
'Combo'Drive
Windows 2000 Professional (no XP.. thank god)
wi-fi card
it comes in at 4.63 lbs

The PowerBook I'm looking at is as follows:

667mhz G4
15.2" screen
512 mb RAM
30gig HD
Combodrive
OS X of course
airport
weighs slightly more at 5.4lbs

My big concern is over the processor. I've always believed that the PowerPC chip is better quality than a pentiumIII, but when you start comparing 667 to 1,200, does the g4 actually equal or surpass the p3 in day to day usage? Or will I see some of the same things that I currently experience on my ol' 400mhz G3, such as incredibly choppy window resizing, jerky minimization of windows, and slow scrolling? 667mhz seems fast, but it is only 67% faster than the g3 I currently use, which feels like a dinosaur in OS X

Other than that, each of these notebooks seems to be good quality, have similar features, similar price, and they are designed well.

I would've put this in the PowerBook forum, but this post encompasses other aspects best suited for discussion in the lounge

[ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: John B. Smith ]

[sek929]

Originally posted by John B. Smith:
<STRONG>Hello.

I have a(nother) big problem folks... I'm purchasing a notebook computer this week. And so I face the Question: PC or PowerBook?

The PC that I am considering is the thinkpad that is configured as follows:

1.2GHZ PIII
14.1" XGA Screen
512mb RAM
20gig HD
'Combo'Drive
Windows 2000 Professional (no XP.. thank god)
wi-fi card
it comes in at 4.63 lbs

The PowerBook I'm looking at is as follows:

667mhz G4
15.2" screen
512 mb RAM
30gig HD
Combodrive
OS X of course
airport
weighs slightly more at 5.4lbs

My big concern is over the processor. I've always believed that the PowerPC chip is better quality than a pentiumIII, but when you start comparing 667 to 1,200, does the g4 actually equal or surpass the p3 in day to day usage? Or will I see some of the same things that I currently experience on my ol' 400mhz G3, such as incredibly choppy window resizing, jerky minimization of windows, and slow scrolling? 667mhz seems fast, but it is only 67% faster than the g3 I currently use, which feels like a dinosaur in OS X

Other than that, each of these notebooks seems to be good quality, have similar features, similar price, and they are designed well.

I would've put this in the PowerBook forum, but this post encompasses other aspects best suited for discussion in the lounge</STRONG>

A G3 and G4 in OSX is night and day. OSX is built to take major advantage of Velocity engine. So it'll be faster in X than your G3.....but not as fast as it would be in 9 of course.......

Also whats the batt. life on that power hogging 1200 MHz beast? Does the slightly smaller screen matter? Theres alot of ?s that need to be answered but in this case I would get the Powerbook. Plus I heard a while back about problems with mobile P3's over 1ghz....

[GK]

G4

[juanvaldes]

Originally posted by GK:
<STRONG>G4</STRONG>

of course you came to a very biased place

What is cost, support, what are you going to do with it, interest in X vs 2K etc? The more info the easier it is to help you with our (remember only OUR) opinion.

[gumby5647]

personally i wouldn't use windows anything....

get the TiBook and load it up with RAM.

[FormerLurker]

it comes in at 4.63 lbs

That's the "travel weight" which you get if you take the Optical Drive OUT - it's 5.3 lbs fully-functional.

Is the Wi-Fi in addition to, or instead of, 10/100 Ethernet?

I played with a 900 MHz Toshiba today with XP, Combo drive, etc., and opening programs and Control Panels, it felt like it was about half the speed of my 667 TiBook.

[Scrod]

Originally posted by John B. Smith:
<STRONG>incredibly choppy window resizing, jerky minimization of windows, and slow scrolling? </STRONG>

These things have absolutely nothing to do with the speed of the processor and everything to do with the fact that many parts of Quartz don't take advantage of the graphics accelerator. HELLO? Have you USED OS 9 before? Try comparing two different pieces of software before you make generalizations about your hardware.

[G4ME]

I've always believed that the PowerPC chip is better quality than a pentiumIII, but when you start comparing 667 to 1,200, does the g4 actually equal or surpass the p3 in day to day usage?

in daily usage like what, video editing, suffing the web, or making those pics you are so famous for. if you are concerned with the Proc just because you are or do you really need that extra umph?

BTW go for G4, its got SEX

[Cellery]

Did you think anyone was going to tell you to get the PC over the Mac? My vote's for the PowerBook, I enjoy mine more than my PC laptop. You can't beat the look, and it's got some serious horsepower. That said, I wish X ran faster on my Ti667, but the (portable) hardware has to come along a bit further to catch up with the software. It is a huge difference when I use X on my DP800, and I'm sure the DPGHz machines scream as well. I'm sure there'll be more performance tweaks by Apple down the line though, many are looking forward to them.

[Spheric Harlot]

The thing to really keep in mind is that a computer is about so much more than numbers.

The point to me is what I want to do, and what will be the better way to get it done for me.

Many don't care about design of their machine as long as it gets the job done. I do, because I stare at it all day.

Many don't care about the OS design/handling as long as it gets the job done. I do.

The Powerbook is the sexiest piece of computer hardware I have ever seen, bar none (except possibly the white iBook). Its design extends to every niggling little detail, where you sense that immeasurable amounts of thought must have gone into making all technical details/necessities as inobtrusive/organic as possible.

OS X, although still unpolished and incomplete in a number of ways, shows promise of the same kind of design. I had a Linux support guy from my ISP step me through a reconfiguring of my DSL connection the other day (DNS was shot for some reason). He wasn't familiar with OS X itself, but when I told him it was a BSD Unix, he talked me through the right configs. I had a GUI for every single thing. It was all right there; no extraneous options when I didn't need them, no vital functions hidden in the "Special options..." of the third dialog box. NO GODDAMN WIZARDS. It struck me how absolutely *luxurious* the interface was. I had *everything* that a Linux or BSD hacker would have had, but I could just click and point, and I didn't have to search for anything.

It is this combination of software/hardware design that keeps me with Apple. And the new iMac shows that they can put out desktop stuff at a competitive price too, though I do wish that Motorola would...nevermind. argh.

-spheric*

[daimoni]

.

[vmarks]

Personally, I'd go with the Titanium- but if you go with the Thinkpad, I can get you the Employee Discount on it if you're in the states.

send me an email if you want to do that.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

i'm with gumby,

get a g4, pack that motherfacker with RAm and watch it pimp osx

i plan to keep my powerbook g4 500 for atleast through the beginning of 2004, if that means anything to you.

[Cipher13]

Meh. My 600 MHz G3 / 256 / 5400rpm is much faster with OSX than my 400 Mhz G4 / 704 / 7200rpm.

[milhous]

Originally posted by John B. Smith:
<STRONG>Hello.

I have a(nother) big problem folks... I'm purchasing a notebook computer this week. And so I face the Question: PC or PowerBook?

The PC that I am considering is the thinkpad that is configured as follows:

1.2GHZ PIII
14.1" XGA Screen
512mb RAM
20gig HD
'Combo'Drive
Windows 2000 Professional (no XP.. thank god)
wi-fi card
it comes in at 4.63 lbs

The PowerBook I'm looking at is as follows:

667mhz G4
15.2" screen
512 mb RAM
30gig HD
Combodrive
OS X of course
airport
weighs slightly more at 5.4lbs

My big concern is over the processor. I've always believed that the PowerPC chip is better quality than a pentiumIII, but when you start comparing 667 to 1,200, does the g4 actually equal or surpass the p3 in day to day usage? Or will I see some of the same things that I currently experience on my ol' 400mhz G3, such as incredibly choppy window resizing, jerky minimization of windows, and slow scrolling? 667mhz seems fast, but it is only 67% faster than the g3 I currently use, which feels like a dinosaur in OS X

Other than that, each of these notebooks seems to be good quality, have similar features, similar price, and they are designed well.

I would've put this in the PowerBook forum, but this post encompasses other aspects best suited for discussion in the lounge</STRONG>

Do you need GUI responsiveness and fast application execution? If so, just get the PC. The 667 will definately fly in 9, but even running X on my 867 Quicksilver, I still think the performance is lackluster compared to the classic OS.

Not to sound like I'm selling out to the masses, but OS X still needs a lot of work done as well as faster processors.

[gumby5647]

unless your doing a lot of DV editing, Graphics and photoshop stuff or desktop publishing. the 667mhz G4 will be just fine for you. The key is RAM. load that pimp daddy up.

[The Dude]

I'm in no way trying to insult anyone here, but we are all a little biased (myself included).

I think it comes down to this John, what do you plan to do with this computer?

IBM ThinkPads are great pieces of hardware (it's the OS they ship with I have a problem with). So, if you plan on traversing through the jungles of the world, the ThinkPad might a better investment.

However, if you plan on baby'ing your TiBook, then it should work out beautifully. And hey, you'll have a mac to boot! (yes, pun intended)

[John B. Smith]

Well I ordered my new notebook today..

I went down to the local CompUSA and took another look at the PowerBook G4 and was quite pleased. Then I drove over to the Circuit City, and I suddenly saw another option that was incredibly tempting: a Toshiba Satellite running P4 at 1.6Ghz.. insane speed! I looked at it, I wanted it, I knew I was going to buy it..

So I asked one of the employees to unlock the display whatchamacallit, and I picked it up... or at least, I tried to. Not only did it have the same GHZ as you would find in a desktop, but it also shared the desktop's weight. I mean, when I looked closely at its specs, it was almost 9 POUNDS.. that's ridiculous. I tried hard to convince myself it wasn't so heavy, but it eventually became evident that if I wanted to carry it around, I would have to buy one of these.

So I promptly came home and ordered a PowerBook G4 667, w/ 1 gig of RAM. If I ever regret not buying the satellite, I could always throw a couple'a bricks in my backpack along with the PBg4 and pretend I did

by the way, thanks for all the feedback guys

[ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: John B. Smith ]

[Timo]

You have chosen correctly.

[gumby5647]

Originally posted by Timo:
<STRONG>You have chosen correctly.</STRONG>

ah, i thought it was "you have choosen wisely"


sorry, im a indiana jones fan


EDIT: Congrats on your new powerbook! Wish i had one!

[ 02-26-2002: Message edited by: gumby5647 ]

[jguidroz]

I've used a few 1ghz laptops where I worked, and even a 1.6ghz P4 desktop. All I have to say is my Pismo 500 was better than all of them.

[GK]

So I promptly came home and ordered a PowerBook G4 667,

John B. Smith,


you're a very wise man

[alin8456]

Very good choice. I bow down to your wisdom

If you had gone with Winblows, I would have told you to shout yourself :S

Whats with your OSX on your 400mhzG3??? Mine runs extremely smooth with 128mb of ram... A lot faster then my Winblow machine anyways while in XP And the winblows machine has a lot faster clock speed too

[wataru]

Originally posted by alin8456:
<STRONG>Whats with your OSX on your 400mhzG3??? Mine runs extremely smooth with 128mb of ram... A lot faster then my Winblow machine anyways while in XP And the winblows machine has a lot faster clock speed too </STRONG>

You, sir, must be insane. I recently used OS X (10.1.2) on a 500mhz iMac with 128mb of RAM... Let me put it this way: It paged-out during startup. The performance was far from acceptable, much less smooth. I promptly got the owner to shell out for an extra 256mb. Now it runs smoothly.

But still not as well as on the 667mhz TiBook. I have one myself, and I have no complaints

[juanvaldes]

nice choice. Didn't know they were packing P4's in laptops yet, wonder what its' battery life is like...

[olePigeon]

38 minutes.

[gumby5647]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>nice choice. Didn't know they were packing P4's in laptops yet, wonder what its' battery life is like...</STRONG>

A P4 in a laptop? OMG that's hilarious!!

maybe they should include a little coupon with it. 10% off your first visit to the hospital for 3rd degree burns.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>nice choice. Didn't know they were packing P4's in laptops yet, wonder what its' battery life is like...</STRONG>

Well, what's really funny is that there is no mobile P4 yet, so they're actually sticking a desktop chip in there. Purely for advertising reasons. In a recent shootout between several laptops, the only P4 model available bombed so heavily that it really wasn't all that funny. After all, people are dropping lots of dollars for these PoS.

-spheric*

[driven]

I wanted a TiBook. I really did.

But ... as everyone knows now I'm a Windows developer. I needed the Windows development tools. Running them in Virtual PC wasn't an option. (I work on a HUGE vertical system.)

So .. I have a 1 Ghz Athlon HP laptop. It's heavy (9 lbs), it's HOT (burns my legs) but it keeps me employed.

(I still want a powerbook though!)

[FulcrumPilot]

buy a wintel notebook. u will regret it.

[John B. Smith]

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
<STRONG>nice choice. Didn't know they were packing P4's in laptops yet, wonder what its' battery life is like...</STRONG>

It was the first time I saw a p4 in a laptop.. Toshiba claims that you'll get 3 hours from the battery, but of course, this "varies with power usage, applications, and utilized features".. I'll let you decide what that means. maybe when you utilize the "Screen Feature" you knock another 90 minutes off the battery life

[ 02-27-2002: Message edited by: John B. Smith ]

[KellyHogan]

If you buy an x86 laptop stay clear of Toshiba or Sony. They are boring to use and the keys feel crap. Dell is the best by far, solid with great keyboards.

Regarding PIV laptops, I've seen a 1.7Ghz laptop with Geforce 4 Go. That was easily the fastest laptop in the world by miles and not very big either. Heat wise it was as hot as the first generation Powerbook G4. For programmers and power users that would be a great laptop and desktop replacement.

Us Mac notebook users don't have the same power or convenience. We can't replace a desktop unless we make some serious sacrifices and currently the Powerbook has some iffy problems connecting to external displays and obviously has no interchangable drive bay. But it's got style and is great for what most people will use it for.

[driven]

Originally posted by KellyHogan:
<STRONG>If you buy an x86 laptop stay clear of Toshiba or Sony. They are boring to use and the keys feel crap. Dell is the best by far, solid with great keyboards.

Regarding PIV laptops, I've seen a 1.7Ghz laptop with Geforce 4 Go. That was easily the fastest laptop in the world by miles and not very big either. Heat wise it was as hot as the first generation Powerbook G4. For programmers and power users that would be a great laptop and desktop replacement.

Us Mac notebook users don't have the same power or convenience. We can't replace a desktop unless we make some serious sacrifices and currently the Powerbook has some iffy problems connecting to external displays and obviously has no interchangable drive bay. But it's got style and is great for what most people will use it for.</STRONG>

I would argue that the Thinkpad is the best PC laptop (with great keyboards). &lt;GRIN&gt; But you pay a premium for IBM. Dell would be #2 on my list, but #1 for price.

We've had great luck with the Toshiba's at work. (With one exception, but I think he pours draino into it or something.) HP's have been hit or miss. (But they have a very compelling price-point). Sony is junk quality. (There is no nicer way to put it.)

No idea about Fujitsu or Compaq.

[KellyHogan]

Originally posted by driven:
<STRONG>

I would argue that the Thinkpad is the best PC laptop (with great keyboards). &lt;GRIN&gt; But you pay a premium for IBM. Dell would be #2 on my list, but #1 for price.

We've had great luck with the Toshiba's at work. (With one exception, but I think he pours draino into it or something.) HP's have been hit or miss. (But they have a very compelling price-point). Sony is junk quality. (There is no nicer way to put it.)

No idea about Fujitsu or Compaq.</STRONG>

I don't like Toshibas because I hate that pointing stick. Sony's I hate because I've used three and hated all of them. I only had one Dell which was a PIII-366 Inspiron 7000. What is remarkable about that machine was how great the keyboard was and how heavy duty it was. Had a great 15" screen too. I sold it to a friend and after two years the machine still handles anything one can throw at it better than my current Powerbook can handle OSX.

[daimoni]

.

[driven]

Originally posted by KellyHogan:
<STRONG>

I don't like Toshibas because I hate that pointing stick. Sony's I hate because I've used three and hated all of them. I only had one Dell which was a PIII-366 Inspiron 7000. What is remarkable about that machine was how great the keyboard was and how heavy duty it was. Had a great 15" screen too. I sold it to a friend and after two years the machine still handles anything one can throw at it better than my current Powerbook can handle OSX.</STRONG>

You wouldn't like the Thinkpad then either due to the stick. I like the stick better than the touchpad. (Which I have now and still can't use worth a damn. Gotta plug a mouse in.) The stick is precise and all. (But it's a personal preference.) I think Dell puts both of them on their 'puters .. to their credit.

[driven]

Originally posted by daimoni:
<STRONG>I just went to the IBM site... gawd what a piece of poo design-wise! Why are they so afraid to actually show us their laptops? I don't want tiny photo's with bad flash demo's. Give me some large images where I can see the durn thing!

Argh!

Well, at least they didn't ask me if I was a Large Business or a Small Business or a Home user whatever ala Dell. </STRONG>

Hahahaha ... after reading your first paragraph I immediately though of the Dell site ... and then I read your second paragraph.

I can't tell you how much that annoys me. "Are you a large business, small business or home user?" WHO GIVES A FLYING FART! Are the prices different? If so, I'll be whatever gets me the unit for cheapest. Otherwise, show me the hardware and stop being so nosey!

"Are you Dr. Galowekitz?" "YES I AM"

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by KellyHogan:
<STRONG>I sold it to a friend and after two years the machine still handles anything one can throw at it better than my current Powerbook can handle OSX.</STRONG>

To be fair, that comparison doesn't mean shit unless he's running Windows XP on it with all the doodads enabled. Your Powerbook can still handle anything you care to throw at it under OS 9 as well as it could two years ago.

-spheric*

[onefinger68]

easy answer.

Is the PC notebook titanium?

Thought not.

- Ca$h

[driven]

Originally posted by onefinger68:
<STRONG>easy answer.

Is the PC notebook titanium?

Thought not.

- Ca$h</STRONG>

Actually IBM has several models that DO have a titanium chassis.

[onefinger68]

Originally posted by driven:
<STRONG>

Actually IBM has several models that DO have a titanium chassis.</STRONG>

Chassis shmassis. you can't SEE it.

- Ca$h

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by onefinger68:
<STRONG>

Chassis shmassis. you can't SEE it.

- Ca$h</STRONG>

You're still wrong.

[onefinger68]

You're still gay.

Go suck some **** .

- Ca$h