Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

finboy · Jun 10, 2009, 02:37 PM

Gunman, guards exchange fire in Holocaust Museum

Isn't this kind of thing illegal (guns, I mean)? Also, can DC charge the guy with violating someone's human rights?

Good Lord, what kind of urban jungle are they running up there?

Dakar V · Jun 10, 2009, 02:42 PM

With that kind of OP, maybe you're looking for the PL?

BadKosh · Jun 10, 2009, 02:43 PM

One old guy from out of town without his meds.... but he did have his long gun.

DC's gun laws are mostly unconstitutional.

No big deal in DC with the murder rate they have.

finboy · Jun 10, 2009, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

With that kind of OP, maybe you're looking for the PL?

I posted to make sure people knew about it, mainly.

You can move it to PL if you want to, I didn't really see this as a political thing.

turtle777 · Jun 10, 2009, 03:59 PM

A gunman exchanged fire with security guards inside the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum on Wednesday.

The museum normally has a heavy security presence with guards positioned both inside and outside. All visitors are required to pass through metal detectors at the entrance, and bags are screened.

Inside ?

So, did security drop the ball here ? What does "normally" mean in this case ? That there wasn't any security, or no screening that day ?

-t

ctt1wbw · Jun 10, 2009, 04:09 PM

The TSA was providing security.

ironknee · Jun 10, 2009, 09:01 PM

another right wing nut

for shame

Big Mac · Jun 10, 2009, 09:09 PM

This is the type of incident the Dems have been waiting for to continue their crusade against law abiding gun owners.

The shooter is a well-known Jew-hater conspiracy theorist with a prominent hate presence online. Of German ancestry, he claims to have fought in WWII, but it's unclear which side he was on.

The most surprising thing is that it took him this long to pop, although he did spend 6 years in prison for trying to assault a Federal reserve meeting.

Laminar · Jun 10, 2009, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

another right wing nut

for shame

Yes, dementia can be explained solely by political affiliation.

lpkmckenna · Jun 10, 2009, 09:21 PM

I would hate to be right about this, but I think the US is gonna experience a lot of this lone wacko stuff for a while. Events like the Tiller murder and this are sadly gonna become more common. I want to be wrong, but I know I'm not.

ironknee · Jun 10, 2009, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Yes, dementia can be explained solely by political affiliation.

his and the Tiller murderer were based on their political slants.. be real man

ghporter · Jun 10, 2009, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Inside ?

So, did security drop the ball here ? What does "normally" mean in this case ? That there wasn't any security, or no screening that day ?

-t

According to published reports "he started shooting as soon as he was inside the door," and before he got to the metal detector. The guard he shot apparently got him good before succumbing to his wounds-he died later.

turtle777 · Jun 10, 2009, 09:53 PM

Ah, that makes sense.

-t

Laminar · Jun 10, 2009, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

his and the Tiller murderer were based on their political slants.. be real man

Oh, sorry, I forgot that the official stance of the "right wingers" is "we hate Jews."

ironknee · Jun 10, 2009, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Oh, sorry, I forgot that the official stance of the "right wingers" is "we hate Jews."

just "we hate"

Laminar · Jun 10, 2009, 10:58 PM

Fantastic.

ironknee · 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Fantastic.

yep... conservatives hate... non christians, science, government, immigrants, right for women to choose, the environment, a black president, gun control, "other" people...

unless you can say the murderer has liberal views... please explain

edit... oh yes and gays

Laminar · Jun 10, 2009, 11:32 PM

Perhaps people don't always fit into one of two categories, and blaming a political side for this tragedy is petty, childish, and completely tactless.
But those are all qualities of liberals! Ha! I can do it, too!

sek929 · Jun 10, 2009, 11:57 PM

Quiet you black-hating, environment-trashing, immigrant-basher!

iMOTOR · Jun 11, 2009, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by ironknee

yep... conservatives hate... religious terrorists, big government, illegal immigrants, right for women to choose to kill their unborn, a black democratic president, irrational gun control, "liberal" people...

edit... oh yes and gays

fixed

turtle777 · Jun 11, 2009, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by ironknee

yep... conservatives hate... non christians, science, government, immigrants, right for women to choose, the environment, a black president, gun control, "other" people...

unless you can say the murderer has liberal views... please explain

edit... oh yes and gays

Are you for real

-t

Shaddim · Jun 11, 2009, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by ironknee

just "we hate"

Grow up, seriously.

YOUR hate-mongering is getting old.

ctt1wbw · Jun 11, 2009, 06:34 AM

Oh, my chest! What's that? Huh? I agree with Laminar??? what the...?

But he does have a point. Why is it that these nut jobs and white supremacists are always labeled as right wing? Those certainly are NOT Conservative values that I have, and I am very Conservative.

ghporter · Jun 11, 2009, 09:01 AM

OK, you guys have taken a simple news story and turned it into a PWL thread. Fine. Now, instead of news about someone (whose motives didn't have to be part of the discussion) committing a crime, we have an argument about the political spectrum. Fine. Off to PWL you go.

Salty · Jun 11, 2009, 09:55 AM

I was recently talking with a friend who is working at a school in Oklahoma, apparently down there I'd be tarred and feathered. Seems the stance of conservatives is simply we hate, from what he tells me.

BadKosh · Jun 11, 2009, 11:21 AM

I wonder what Rev. Wright would say? Hatred-wise that is.

Dakar V · Jun 11, 2009, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by BadKosh

I wonder what Rev. Wright would say? Hatred-wise that is.

As long as he doesn't say it with a gun, I'll live.

Literally.

finboy · Jun 11, 2009, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

This is the type of incident the Dems have been waiting for to continue their crusade against law abiding gun owners.

The shooter is a well-known Jew-hater conspiracy theorist with a prominent hate presence online. Of German ancestry, he claims to have fought in WWII, but it's unclear which side he was on.

The most surprising thing is that it took him this long to pop, although he did spend 6 years in prison for trying to assault a Federal reserve meeting.

It's a tragedy, but never underestimate the power of politicians to exploit tragedies for their own use.

Now we'll see the overall media emphasis on guns ramp up again, as it did right after the election for a couple of months. In that case, someone pointed out how popular guns were all of a sudden and the admin backed off (and, somehow, got the Congress to back off as well).

He couldn't legally have a gun there, he couldn't have legally bought the gun (or owned one), and shooting people certainly isn't legal. Double-parking is illegal too. Despite all those wonderful gun laws, and whatever else DC throws in there, it still happened. Gun laws don't keep nuts or otherwise evil people from having guns. Ever.

Another interesting thing: pundits are wondering if Terry McAuliffe lost the VA primary b/c he's farther from the center on guns than his opponents. It's an interesting hypothesis, especially considering the VA Tech event.

finboy · Jun 11, 2009, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

I was recently talking with a friend who is working at a school in Oklahoma, apparently down there I'd be tarred and feathered. Seems the stance of conservatives is simply we hate, from what he tells me.

Well, he probably has his head up his ass. Most conservatives are too busy to worry about whether or not they should hate anybody, at least the young, successful ones that I know are.

Oklahoma is backward in some ways, but it isn't anything like Boston with the racial bias thing.

How people got this idea that bigotry was a right-wing ideal is beyond me. I don't know any successful conservatives that rely on hate to justify anything. Maybe it's from the media TELLING US that conservatives use hate. The politics of division from The Left. Woww, who could see that coming?

turtle777 · Jun 11, 2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

Most conservatives are too busy to worry about whether or not they should hate anybody...

It's funny how all those liberals constantly ~~hate~~ attack the conservatives for their hating.

But I know how the game works: if a conservative says something, it's hating. If a Liberal says something similar, it's speaking the truth.

-t

Doofy · Jun 11, 2009, 12:54 PM

I know an awful lot of conservatives and the only thing they tend to hate is lefties. Oh, and those little red spider mite thingies. Which to all intents and purposes are lefties anyway - they're red and insecty with tiny brains.

stupendousman · Jun 11, 2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

his and the Tiller murderer were based on their political slants.. be real man

The desire to separate and divide people because of their political differences?

Congratulations. You are doing your part in furthering that goal. You clearly must be a right winger then.

RhymesWithOrange · Jun 11, 2009, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

The shooter is a well-known Jew-hater conspiracy theorist with a prominent hate presence online. Of German ancestry, he claims to have fought in WWII, but it's unclear which side he was on.

Glad to see even Jews can be bigots. Everyone knows if you want to kill Jews you don't go there. That's where self-loathing white Christians go.

By the way...is there a memorial to the 20,000,000 Native Americans that were slaughtered by Americans as they moved westward?

My thought is he's terminally ill and he went there to commit suicide by guards but he was the better shot.

Guards with guns!!11! WTF?

How do you know he wasn't Irish?

Dakar V · Jun 11, 2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by RhymesWithOrange

By the way...is there a memorial to the 20,000,000 Native Americans that were slaughtered by Americans as they moved westward?

Yeah, we call them Casinos.

RhymesWithOrange · Jun 11, 2009, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I know an awful lot of conservatives and the only thing they tend to hate is lefties. Oh, and those little red spider mite thingies. Which to all intents and purposes are lefties anyway - they're red and insecty with tiny brains.

Tories are red.

RhymesWithOrange · Jun 11, 2009, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Yeah, we call them Casinos.

That's supposed to be funny? It's not. What a racist bunch you guys are.

Dakar V · Jun 11, 2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by RhymesWithOrange

That's supposed to be funny? It's not.

Oh it totally is if you aren't in PC OMG THE OUTRAGE!!1 mode.

Originally Posted by RhymesWithOrange

What a racist bunch you guys are.

Everyone in the thread?

turtle777 · Jun 11, 2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Oh, and those little red spider mite thingies. Which to all intents and purposes are lefties anyway - they're red and insecty with tiny brains.

-t

ort888 · Jun 11, 2009, 01:41 PM

ironknee · Jun 11, 2009, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Perhaps people don't always fit into one of two categories, and blaming a political side for this tragedy is petty, childish, and completely tactless.
But those are all qualities of liberals! Ha! I can do it, too!

so the Tiller murderer and this nazi murder can be called liberal? explain and show your work

ironknee · Jun 11, 2009, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by iMOTOR

yep... conservatives hate... religious terrorists, big government, illegal immigrants, right for women to choose to kill their unborn, a black democratic president, irrational gun control, "liberal" people...

edit... oh yes and gays
fixed

well you've just proven that the Tiller murderer and the nazi murderer fits into the conservative movement... no?

Dakar V · Jun 11, 2009, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

so the Tiller murderer and this nazi murder can be called liberal? explain and show your work

He's saying if a white guy shot a black guy it doesn't necessarily mean its a crime stemming from racism. In this instance with a conservative shooter it being "politically" motivated is not a guarantee.

But hey, you're a PL denizen, I don't expect you to understand.

ironknee · Jun 11, 2009, 02:53 PM

^^so where on the political spectrum would the Tiller murderer and this nazi murderer fall into?

Dakar V · Jun 11, 2009, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

^^so where on the political spectrum would the Tiller murderer and this nazi murderer fall into?

*WHOOSH*

Do you classify every murder that occurs on where it belongs on a political spectrum?

Chuckit · Jun 11, 2009, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by ironknee

^^so where on the political spectrum would the Tiller murderer and this nazi murderer fall into?

The idea that murders should be classified on a political scale seems suspect to me — almost like you're trying to use random psychos to justify your preconceptions — but since we've acknowledged that he is a Nazi (National Socialist), it would appear that he falls on the liberal side of things.

shifuimam · Jun 11, 2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

Gun laws don't keep nuts or otherwise evil people from having guns. Ever.

Which is why denying non-insane people the right to own firearms is a very dangerous path to approach. "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is cliche, but true. The people who murder each other with weapons of any kind (not just firearms) are the people who will acquire weapons no matter what the law says.

finboy · Jun 11, 2009, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Yeah, we call them Casinos.

Golf claps.

RE: the racism implied by victim choice idea

Actually, the idea that white folks can be racists for attacking people of color is well-explored. The DOJ can prosecute for violating someone's civil rights. Just ask the police in the Rodney King incident. Prosecutions of this kind happen all the time.

The other way around? Not so much. Although there are many crimes with minority perps and non-minority victims, we don't see DOJ rushing to prosecute as a hate crime or violation. What that says is that racism is everywhere, including in the DOJ.

Chuckit · Jun 11, 2009, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Which is why denying non-insane people the right to own firearms is a very dangerous path to approach. "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is cliche, but true. The people who murder each other with weapons of any kind (not just firearms) are the people who will acquire weapons no matter what the law says.

British crime trends seem to indicate that such laws are effective in getting people to kill each other in other ways.

ironknee · Jun 11, 2009, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

*WHOOSH*

Do you classify every murder that occurs on where it belongs on a political spectrum?

so murderers never have political agendas?

ironknee · Jun 11, 2009, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

The idea that murders should be classified on a political scale seems suspect to me — almost like you're trying to use random psychos to justify your preconceptions — but since we've acknowledged that he is a Nazi (National Socialist), it would appear that he falls on the liberal side of things.

are you saying nazis are liberals?????