[Marv]

Does anyone else have an issue with occasional double letters (key bounce) when typing?

Both my G4 and G5 keyboards do this and the Logitech does not. PC keyboards I use at work also do not do this.

My guess is that my typing is not very accurate and the Apple keyboards are more sensitive to poor techniques.

Marv

[reader50]

Haven't noticed that happening, but you can adjust the repeat delay in:

System Preferences... -> Keyboard & Mouse

ps - please post peripheral-related questions in the Peripherals forum.

[lexhair]

I usually make it a through a year or so before something goes off the treadle with the apple keyboard. I think my G4 AGP keyboard had the doubles (or skipped letters) before I put it out to pasture. Put an Alps on my old 6100 (R.I.P.) and a Macally on my current G4 AGP. Much happier with performance and tactile feel.

[eyadams]

Yes, it happens fairly often for me, though the same keyboard works absolutely fine for my wife (who types roughly the same speed as I do) and other users. This is on my G5. I eventually got a new keyboard from Apple while it was under warranty, and the new one has the same problem, though not as bad. I never had this problem with the keyboards on my 6100 or G3.

[Cadaver]

I think its just the mechanisms Apple uses in their keyboard. I end up with missed letters (probably from not hitting the key hard enough) frequently on my two black G4-style keyboards, but not on the new white keyboards or the Apple bluetooth keyboard on my wife's iMac (which both use the same mechanisms).

Some people just do better with some keyboards versus others.

I have a logitech keyboard on my PC, and while I don't miss any letters (or get doubles), I can't type as fast on it.

Sad, but the nicest keyboard in terms of key response I've used in recent times was the Microsoft Office Keyboard (which they don't make any more). I still have an Apple ADB Extended Keyboard II... maybe one day I'll get an ADB-USB adapter and play with it.

[Hank Cazorp]

I type upwards of 90 wpm. I consider myself a good typist and I think I have pretty good touch-typing techniquue.

I have no problems on my IBM thinkpad, or any MS or IBM standalone keyboards at work. But when I purchased an iBook G4, bam: duplicate letters. That keyboard was defective (ribbon cable was bubbling up and blocking the spacebar/enter keys), so I ordered a replacement, thinking maybe it was just a naff keyboard in general. Nope. Same issue.

So I bought a standalone USB Mac keyboard. Same freaking issue. I'm so glad to see that others are having this problem. I don't see it as an acceptable situation but I'm not going to return my iBook over it.

Alas, I foolishly corrected all the duupes up until this point, when I realized I should have kept them inn. I wannt to assure you that this last paragrapph was uncorrected or changed in any way. This is *really* the way this keyboard transmitts keystrokes to the screen.



Good thing Mac is suupporting BYODKM. Becauusee there ain't no more Apple keyboards in my future.

Once again: I know it looks fake, but I solemnly swear that all the dupes in the first sentence and the lasst few paragraphs were naturally-occurring.

Any Powerbook users out thhere with this issue?

[analogika]

Have you fiddled with the key repeat rate in the System preferences?

[Hank Cazorp]

Originally Posted by analogika

Have you fiddled with the key repeat rate in the System preferences?

Yep.

[Mike Wevrick]

Hi, ffolks. New member here. In fact I ffound this forum while googling for a solution to tthiss probleem. As you can ssee, its pretty bad. I never had this problem on my PC, so it'ss not my typing (wwhich is slow but pretty aaccurate). Setting the key repeat rate to ssloww and thee delay to off heelped a bit but not much.

Any suggestions ffor a goodd low-cosst replacement?

[paolo]

I did exactly the same! Does anyone know if Apple are aware of this problem and trying to fix it? It's driving me mad, as it's taking about three times longer than neccessary to write emails. In the place where I work there are a lot of keyboards lying around, and I've been through about four in search of one which didn't repeat this problem. They all do, including a brand new G5 one which I've just unwrapped myself. The only one I had recently which didn't do it was a 'mac ally' third-party keyboard, but that one's too old now and has developed it's own set of problems.

[paolo]

By the way, the keyboard prefs appear to have no bearing whatsoever on this problem. I've tried hitting hard, and hitting softly, all to no avail.

[Mike Wevrick]

I agree changing the settings made little or no difference. I am now trying to make my typing more precise, which has really helped. I still get some double characters, but not nearly as many. I think the keyboards are just ultrasensitive.

[tooki]

Try the Matias Tactile Pro. It's a true keyswitch keyboard, like the good old IBM and Apple keyboards that cost almost $200 each.

tooki

[PurpleGiant]

eyadams: you mention your wife types on the keyboard just fine. Perhaps it is you, or the way you type?

[eyadams]

eyadams: you mention your wife types on the keyboard just fine. Perhaps it is you, or the way you type?

I think it's the way I type. I learned to type on a manual typewriter, and type with a VERY heavy touch, holding my wrists high. My wife, on the other hand, learned to type on a computer, and doesn't have such a heavy touch. I've found that if I use a much lighter touch on the keyboard, it works fine. Also, I have to be much more accurate with my keying - this keyboard is very sensitive.

But I still think there's something wrong with this design. I've been typing the same way for over 20 years, on a variety of keyboards, and never had this problem. My cheapo $15 PC keyboard at work doesn't have this problem; my old Apple Design Keyboard II didn't have this problem. I've thought about getting one of the keyboards mentioned in this thread, but since I figured out that I could type a little differently I think I'd rather do that.

[tooki]

(Note: the names in bold are the official Apple designation for each model, that is, what is printed on the back. This page has pix of most, but not all, of the keyboards I mention below.)

There was no Apple Design Keyboard II.

There was the Apple Design Keyboard (~1996), which was several cheap membrane keyboards (with various "feels" to them depending on what factory it was made in). They have a somewhat curvaceous design. These are the ones included with Power Mac G3 and Performa models from about 1996 until the release of the Apple USB Keyboard (1998) with the original iMac.

Then there was the Apple Extended Keyboard (1987), and the Apple Extended Keyboard II (~1992?). These were expensive, non-bundled keyboards that sold for about $150, IIRC. They used fancy Alps keyswitches, and had the wonderful clickety-clack touch and feel. Both have a very square footprint, unlike the Design Keyboard. The Extended Keyboard II version simply added a lifter mechanism in the rear to adjust the angle.

There was the original Apple Keyboard (1987), which was a non-extended layout (no F keys), and used the Alps keyswitches.

The Apple Keyboard II (~1992?), on the other hand, used membrane switches.

The Apple Adjustable Keyboard was a neat little beast, with an ergonomic split-keyboard for the alpha portion, and a separate numeric- and F-key pad. All the keys except for the F-keys were Alps keyswitches, the F-keys and volume buttons were little tiny buttons, not actual keys.

All of Apple's USB keyboards use membrane switches. This includes the original Apple USB Keyboard (1998), the Apple Pro Keyboard (2000), and the latest one, which is labeled simply Keyboard (2003).


The Matias Tactile Pro uses the same keyswitches as the venerable Apple Extended Keyboard II. It might be what you're looking for -- keyswitches handle hard typing a lot better than membranes, which can actually be damaged by hard keypresses (the keycaps often have little tubes on the back, which can cut the membrane just like a cookie cutter if pressed too hard; I have killed Apple USB Keyboards that way, from dropping things onto a key).

tooki

[Cadaver]

About 4 weeks ago I dug my ADB Apple Extended Keyboard II out of the closet and connected it to my G5 via a Griffin ADB-to-USB converter. I love it. I'd forgotten just how wonderful this keyboard really was (is). And much less klacky than the Kensington keyboard (never heard the Matias). The Griffin iMate works great, and no drivers necessary. My typing accuracy is so much better on this keyboard than it was on any of the Apple USB keyboards.

I've also got a non-extended Apple ADB Keyboard (same mechanical keyswitches) sitting in the closet as well. See, and my wife thought I was nuts for saving all this computer hardware all these years. Though I can't find any of my old coiled ADB cables... stuck using a third-party straight ADB cable I dug up somewhere.

To make up for the missing volume/mute keys, I also added a Griffin PowerMate dial. Moved the Dashboard key to F13 so I'd have no issue with F12 as the eject key. Love it. The reset/power key will bring up the restart/sleep/shutdown dialog box, too.

The light beige keyboard (with rainbow Apple) looks a bit funny next to my aluminum 30" display and dark grey/black MX-1000 mouse, but hey... when it comes to computer input devices, its better to feel good than to look good (to borrow a phrase from "Fernando").

[Analogue2600]

I too have had problems with the Apple Keyboard that came with my G5 and double and sometimes tripple characters. I know how to type and have taken a typing course. I have been typing for over 25 years and have never had a problem like this. I have talked with Apple tech and they all but admit that there is some kind of problem with their keyboards. I tried getting an ADB adaptor and using my old Apple Extended Keyboard II vintage early 1990s. With the adapter I was able to type without all the problems but it did not work for rebooting without extensions or from CD and that is a problem. I purchased a Kensington Keyboard in a Box that functioned ffine and the feel was OK but I kind of liked having an eject key and the volume buttons on the keyboard. Back to Apple... They agreed to send me a replacement and I ended up gettingg and upgrade from the model that shipped with my computer but as you can see from this post I am now getting double characters from the Apple Pro keyboard as well. I have always felt that Apple put out a superior product and had good honest tech support so what’s thee deal now? To me it seems illogical that they can't make a keyboard that works correctly afterr all these years. It is unacceptable and I urge everyy one who is having this problem to call Apple and complain.

Originally Posted by Marv

Does anyone else have an issue with occasional double letters (key bounce) when typing?

Both my G4 and G5 keyboards do this and the Logitech does not. PC keyboards I use at work also do not do this.

My guess is that my typing is not very accurate and the Apple keyboards are more sensitive to poor techniques.

Marv

[Analogue2600]

FYI: I just spent 54 min on the phone with Apple. They want me to go to an Apple Store to type for their tech guru so they can maybe figure out the problem. I guess that they don't believe me when I say that I have worked on a bunch of G5's and have the problem on all of them. Are they really that thick?

[cleanup]

My record is 154 WPM, and I've never experienced key bounce on any keyboard I've ever used. Both laptop and desktop keyboards.

[Stingrey]

I've noticed the same thing, although normally it is when the computer bogs down for whatever reason. If I'm processing something in the background and composing an e-mail (using an Apple BT kbd, that also plays into it sometimes) and the computer lags behind my typing, a few moments later my letters fly onto the screen after having been typed with repeats of whatever letter I was on when it bogged down. Again, using a BT kbd so thought it was perhaps just the fact that it was wireless, but it has happened with my wired kbd when the computer slows down to do whatever in the background.

[firefly]

Im still using my Extended II Keyboard with my PC. Built like a tank, fantastic. Im spoiled. Im holding back from a future with the membrane keyboard, its just that I rather dislike yellowing plastic and archaic interfaces...

On another note, although the black Pro Keyboard that came with my Quicksilver is probably the worst thing I have ever typed on, the newer 'Keyboard' is better. And at least Apple can actually design an attractive typing implement. Granted, a keyboard isnt inherently an especially trendy device, but PC keyboards as a whole range from dull to hideous. Why do so many designers lack basic good taste? I mean, really. Pff.

[rshea]

I have the same problem, and it's bad enough ttaht it's makingg me regret switching to a Mac.

I have this problem with the Powerbook G4 keyboard and with the standard Apple USB keyboard I boughtt. The USB keyboard seems too be slightly worse than the laptop one. Adjusting the keyboard settings or the universal access settings doesn't help.

Sure, itt may be something about the way I type, but I type this way at work on my PC all day long without this trouble. And I've been typing for 23 years on keyboards from Vis200s, PCs, vintage 80's Macs, and various Sun workstations without this kind of problem. Some applications seem worse abouut it too...Safari and Yahoo IM drive me up a wall, and the ii, t, and SPACE keys are definitely the worst culprits.

[bruce1q]

Originally Posted by rshea

I have the same problem, and it's bad enough ttaht it's makingg me regret switching to a Mac.

I have this problem with the Powerbook G4 keyboard and with the standard Apple USB keyboard I boughtt. The USB keyboard seems too be slightly worse than the laptop one. Adjusting the keyboard settings or the universal access settings doesn't help.

Sure, itt may be something about the way I type, but I type this way at work on my PC all day long without this trouble. And I've been typing for 23 years on keyboards from Vis200s, PCs, vintage 80's Macs, and various Sun workstations without this kind of problem. Some applications seem worse abouut it too...Safari and Yahoo IM drive me up a wall, and the ii, t, and SPACE keys are definitely the worst culprits.

I have major key bounce problems too on two different Apple keyboards I have used. I am programming all day and notice this very frequently on the white Apple keyboard that came with the my G5. I even had several keys bounce while typing this message. It seems to be worse on certain keys.
Often hitting the delete key will erase several characters!!
Keyboard repeat rate has no effect on this.

I haven't had key bounce problems on other keyboards since 1985, even with cheap junk! This is absurd.

If anyone has luck convincing Apple that they have a BIG PROBLEM with keyboards in the field that suck, please let us know on this forum!

Cheers
--BQ

[webraider]

Gee... I'm still using my original USB Apple Keyboard that came with the Puck Mouse. Although I finally retired the Puck (I actually liked it), I actually love my USB keyboard. I'm a fast typest and a pianist but the thing I've learned about Apple's keyboards is that they are made with a light touch in mind. They take hardly any pressure to activate and it's actually better if you put your wrist down instead of up. That will help take the pressure off your fingers. Wrist up was so you could get more support to your finger tips because Typewriter Keys haven't always been that easy to push (for those of us who remember). Try typing with your wrist down, although if you've used a heavy touch for long... you probably have ruined the keyboard. Also try slowing down when you first type to really teach your fingers the feel of the keyboard. I did practice type on mine at first and low and behold... You're fingers can learn to get used to it. Now I actually prefer Apple's keyboards and touch as they just feel smooth to me. Some people liked to hear the click and feel the clack when they type. To each His own.

[alto2]

Just popping in to say that I'm so relieved to hear that I don't just have amazingly bad luck! I just bought an iBook and its keyboard has been driving me crazy. I was surprised, because my iMac, which I bought a little over four years ago, had the same issue, but I think it took some time before it appeared. I bought a replacement keyboard when I bought the iBook, and that one does it, too! Three keyboards in a row seemed a bit much to be just coincidence. Like others, have have fussed with the key repeat settings and if it made a ddifference at all, it was undetectable.

I don't think I have a particularly heavy typing touch, and in honesty, I really love the Apple keyboards because they feel so good and let me type faster than the clunky older keyboards (including the PC keyboards I learned on). It'd break my heart to have to give them up (or to cart an external keyboard around with the iBook all the time).

But I'm relieved to see that it's not just me.

[Cadaver]

To resurrect an old thread...

I received today my Matias TactilePro keyboard. I decided to give it a try since my Extended Keyboard II started behaving oddly (the caps lock key would get stuck electronically, but not mechanically).

Anyway, the Matias keyboard is definitely louder than the Extended Keyboard II, but if one were to turn off one's ears, it would have otherwise a nearly identical mechanical feel. I can usually hear when I make a typo even before I notice on-screen. Key spacing seems nearly the same, and the keys themselves are very comfortably shaped. The layout, as I'm sure many have seen, is nearly the same as Apple's previous "Pro Keyboards." On first glance, the Matias keyboard looks nearly identical to the white Apple Pro Keyboards (the ones with the USB ports on the sides) that originally shipped with the iMac G4s and the eMac. The function keys along the top row are grouped in clusters of 4 instead of being all crammed together like on Apple's current keyboards (which is nice, since the F9-F12 keys - the exposé and dashboard defaults) are nicely grouped together without an overly big F13 sitting next to it. And while it looks awfully busy to my wife (who prefers the Apple bluetooth keyboard on her iMac G5), the option-symbol keys printed on the keycaps is wonderful. I can turn off the International Input dohicky/flag on my menu bar, which was otherwise only useful for calling up the input palette.

This truly is a keyboardists keyboard. If you do any serious writing, coding, etc., do yourself a favor and check it out. It does clickity-clack with like the old IBM AT/XT keyboards of yesteryear, but it feels just great. I know Tooki has brought these keyboards up in posts several times in the past.

I type way better on this thing than I do on my other Apple and non-Apple keyboards (Microsoft, Logitech and others).

Anyway, as soon as my Apple Mighty Mouse (not my favorite name) arrives, I'll be in Mac-Geek heaven.

I've read a rumor that Matias is working on a PC-centric version of this keyboard for Windows users. I'd imagine it'll be a big hit with the Slashdot crowd.