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Which OS (X / Windows) is more "open" ? (Page 2)
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
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Originally Posted by ShotgunEd
I wasn't contesting your(or whoever's) hyothesis, rather challenging the wording. "Apple will do this one day" is not a sound argument. "Apple may do this one day" is much better, non-inflamatory to us mac-fan-boys and not a complete falsehood. Until Apple ship an OS that requires activation then lets keep it in the realm of possibility, instead of making it definite..
Makes sense.
Deathman >> I didn't apologized for my comments.
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Forum Regular
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My on-topic response: OS X is more "open" than Windows.
My off-topic response: Activation doesn't prevent people from stealing software. Also, when we "buy" the software, we're not buying a product like a TV set or a pint of Guinness. What we're buying is the LICENSE to use the software.
Since we're only buying the LICENSE, software companies can basically make you do anything they want in order to USE the software. If you don't agree with the license, you don't use it.
Personally, I hate software activation. That's why I haven't upgraded to Photoshop CS2 or any other CS2 application.
Just my 2-cents.
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Did Schroedinger's cat think outside the box?
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Nagoya, Japan • 日本 名古屋市
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Originally Posted by outsourced
Also, when we "buy" the software, we're not buying a product like a TV set or a pint of Guinness. What we're buying is the LICENSE to use the software.
Speak for yourself. When I buy software, I buy software.
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Grizzled Veteran
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Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock
Speak for yourself. When I buy software, I buy software.
huh?
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Tasmania, Australia
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Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock
Speak for yourself. When I buy software, I buy software.
Agreed. Particularly when you talk about boxed software (as both Mac OS X and Windows can be purchased either off-the-shelf or by snail mail). You are actually being physically given the software in a box in exchange for money. The license is also in the box, and there may be a sticker saying that opening the box is tantamount to agreeing with the license (although that is legally dubious).
When you buy the software, you buy the software (and the license). You own a copy of the software. You are still bound by laws, and perhaps bound by the license, but you own a copy of the software.
The legality of such licensing is odd. There are certainly copyright laws, but I'm not familiar if there any any similar licensing laws, either here or in the U.S. I've never signed a license agreement for any software ever. Just because I bought the software, and they included a license agreement in the box, that doesn't mean I ever agreed to it. What laws govern being bound by that agreement?
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Mac Elite
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You own the media that the software comes supplied on, the printed manual, assuming it comes with one (though not the rights to the manual) and anything else that comes in the box. The software still belongs to the developer.
Like when you buy a movie DVD, you own the media, not the movie, its not yours to do what you like with.
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Professional Poster
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Originally Posted by ShotgunEd
You own the media that the software comes supplied on, the printed manual, assuming it comes with one (though not the rights to the manual) and anything else that comes in the box. The software still belongs to the developer.
Like when you buy a movie DVD, you own the media, not the movie, its not yours to do what you like with.
You may find that you have a different definition of Software to people arguing the other side.
"Software" is a very difficult thing to define well. According to the Mac OS X dictionary, it is "the programs and other operating information used by a computer." Does that mean the software is on the CD? The CD certainly contains programs, and if I own the CD, I own the programs on it, therefore I own the software (or at least one instance/copy of it).
Eg, I don't own Mac OS X. I do own a copy of Mac OS X.
Ie, I do not own the concept of Mac OS X, nor the copyright, source, etc. I do own a working installation of it, which comprises of a set of binary (and other) files.
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Mac Elite
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I don't think my definition of software is different, my definition of ownership however is a different case.
I've read too many discussions of the validity of EULAs to care though.
If you wanna think you own the software then you are entitled to.
Just like if you think you are a direct descendant of an aardvark, you are entitled to.
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
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Originally Posted by ShotgunEd
I don't think my definition of software is different, my definition of ownership however is a different case.
I've read too many discussions of the validity of EULAs to care though.
If you wanna think you own the software then you are entitled to.
Just like if you think you are a direct descendant of an aardvark, you are entitled to.
 agreed
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MacBook Pro | 2.16 ghz core2duo | 2gb ram | superdrive | airport extreme
iBook G4 | 1.2ghz | 768mb ram | combodrive | airport extreme
iPhone 3GS | 32 GB | Jailbreak, or no Jailbreak
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Addicted to MacNN
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It has been determined in German courts already that buying software is a regular purchase and what is in the license is irrelevant. If you buy software you own it just like you own a book you bought.
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Mac Elite
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Bad analogy, you own that copy of the book, not the rights to the text.
Legal precedents from one country don't tend to extend to other countries even if the law in question is the same and I'm not sure it is.
Not that I'm trying to argue the validity of an EULA.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Originally Posted by ShotgunEd
Bad analogy, you own that copy of the book, not the rights to the text.
I never said I own the rights to the text of the books I own and I never claimed to own the rights to the software I own. But I own that copy of the software.
Originally Posted by ShotgunEd
Legal precedents from one country don't tend to extend to other countries even if the law in question is the same and I'm not sure it is.
I live in Germany so this applies to me.
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Senior User
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock
✓ Installing OS X requires no serial number and no product activation.
☓ Installing Windows requires both serial numbers and demeaning activation procedures
Keep in mind that OS X Server does require a serial number.
✓ Apple gives all users and developers its Xcode develoment tools for free.
☓ Microsoft charges hefty prices for its development tools.
The Visual Studio Express Editions are free downloads. Though, free != open (which also goes for Xcode).
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Stink different.
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