[downinflames68]

Okay... first off... this is my only post here. I won't be posting again. (edit: posted a thank you at the bottom) Please don't lock the topic or delete it. Please. I know I'm not welcome here, but I don't know where else to go.

This is Cash. My personal life is a mess, other parts of my life aren't. I recently graduated from school, with my degree in industrial design. I graduated with honors, at the top of my class. The drying rack that won third place in the greener gadgets contest back in feb, is going into production with a high end design company. I have many products currently in production, some are for sale at home depot, more coming out in October. I'm also starting my own design firm (an LLC), and so far business is good, I am doing freelance work for a few decently-sized companies and the pay is great. So that's the business side of my life, at the moment.

However, about 2/3 of the way through my last semester, my wife told me she wanted a divorce. This was a shock to me. I knew things had been rocky, but I didn't know they were that bad. Part of the reason I didn't know they were that bad is that my wife was always dramatic, and always unhappy iwth something. She systematically was upset about everything in her life, from her religion, then childhood, then parents, then later childhood, and now me. Everything that was great about our relationship, is now gone, apparently. She says she still loves me, but doesn't want to be with me, because our lives are going in different directions. Her direction is yoga, alternative energy, homeopathic medicines, tarot cards, and she goes to moon circle. When this started, I thought it was ridiculous, and was not nice to her about it. I realized about a year ago that I should be more accepting, so I was.

There are a number of other reasons. Although I have a powerful, funny personality, I also lack character and integrity. It seems these come from developing principles from the values you have, something I haven't done until recently. Basically, I have the people skills to smooth talk my way into/out of things, but I don't have the moral compass to give me a consistent direction. Imagine someone who is good at chopping through a forest, but is completely lost. That's kind of me.

She also feels that I undervalued her, and she was right. When I was in school, she wasn't my top priority. In fact, she probably wasn't in the top 5. School was number 1; the workload was insane. I was working til midnight many nights, and sometimes I'd stay til 2am, walk across the street, crawl into my car, sleep, wake up, and walk back into school. On top of my insane school schedule, I was working 25-30 hours a week. When I did have free time, which was NOT often, I liked to go out to parties with my school friends, read books, play games, etc. **** that wasn't important at all, but was enjoyable. I was so stressed from school, that when she told me she wanted a divorce, I didn't even really argue. I objected a bit, but not terribly, because I was also confused. There was another girl whom I was very close to at school, who I was very confused about. We spent a lot of time together, and naturally feelings did come about... but I never acted on them. I never did anything, and I even told my wife about it. Eventually, this girl and I talked about it, admitted to each other there was something else, but decided we didn't know what to do about any of it, and as far as I know we're just going to be friends. I'm fine with that, because it was stressing me out anyway.

Anyway... during the last semester, my grandmother died, whom I grew up with. Then my wife filed for divorce, and then I was laid off from my job. With no income, and being forced out of my apartment, I put my head down, and moved back in with my mom. I left all my friends in Milwaukee... my job... my wife.... and my dog.

This was about 1.5 months ago. I didn't know what to think. I have tried dating, and although there are quite a few cool girls; I do not feel anything for them besides friendship. I was frustrated, upset, and realized that I wasn't happy. My entire life had fallen apart, and the price of school was turning out to be MUCH more expensive than just a paper bill. It had cost me a marriage, of 5.5 years. A relationship of over 7.5 years.

I decided drastic action needed to be taken, so I downloaded tons of self-help audiobooks, bought some other books, loaded up my iPod, and left for the wilderness. I drove over 4000 miles in Colorado, exploring the back country, learning about who I am, what I need to improve on, and why things weren't working. I also started to learn about buddhism, about the art of empathic listening, win-win situations, and becoming a more consistent, likeable person. I backpacked through the rock mountain national forest, I crawled 1800ft down into the black canyon, and I met all sorts of interesting people whom I conversed with. I tried a bit of yoga from my couchsurfing host in Boulder, I stayed at a Hostel in Denver, and I made a few great new friends. Most of all, I came back with a desire to set things straight; even if it doesn't fix our relationship, I at least want to share with her what I know now.

But most of all, I realized how wrong I was. How ****ed up my priorities were, and how horrible a husband I've been. I mean, yeah, I never cheated on her, or got violent, but I also didn't take the time to care for her, to show her I value her, and all that stuff. I just thought htings would always be okay, and that I would have time to work on things after I graduated. Apparently her breaking point wasn't timed properly with my school schedule. I tried just being agreeable, and doing what she said. I signed some papers, I moved out, and I gave her space. I haven't seen her in over a month. This weekend, she wants me to come over to finish filling out paperwork, then that's it.

Now... I obviously want her back. I've been against the divorce the entire time, and the only reason I signed some things was that I was trying to be agreeable. I can't sleep anymore. This **** keeps me up, trying to figure out what to do. Searching the internet is pointless, the first 50 pages of google results of "win her back" are nothing but scammers trying to sell you a book on getting her back, for only $49.99. They all contradict each other, and just make things more confusing. Now, I KNOW that I should not appear needy and desperate. I'm not. I can get other girls relatively easy, and my career is definitely going in a fantastic direction. I'm not desperate, but I DO desire to fix things between us. I do not believe that our relationship should be thrown away over my lack of prioritization, especially now that I know the error of my ways. However, I'm not going to try to change her mind this Sunday. I'm going to agree to the divorce. One of the things I learned was that in order to be interdependent, one must first be independent. And I think I kind of skipped that point in my life. So did she. WHen I met her, she was still living in the dorms. And she loved me because I was dangerous, fun, exciting, daring, etc, but at the same time, my HUGE personality also stifled hers. All her friends at work are single, and I'm sure she's feeling like she's missing out. She's also feeling a huge relief to fill the apartment with her stuff, instead of mine. It wasn't balanced. I was dominating the relationship, and I'm sure she felt suffocated. However, I do love her for who she is, and the things that make her her. I do want to learn how to become more independent, before ever trying to get back with her.

But really, I need advice. Which is why I come back to this place. Google has failed me, and none of my friends in real life know what to do, so I'm hoping some of you can give me some of your life advice. I am asking for what worked for you, why, and what didn't work. I desire your help, your input, and your stories. Even if they involve SUVs.

Regards,

- Rob

PS: And before anybody else posts it: YouTube - The Ballad of Douche Quadbike (Drizzt Remix)

No, that will not work. Yeah, I went to Colorado and got into adventures but I didn't film it and put a flag on top of something for her. It was for me.

Edit: No, she did not fire me for being a dipshit. She honestly believes in order to be the best people we want to be, we can't be together. She wants to pursue all this alternative energy stuff, and she thinks I should move to a big city, schmooze with other designers at cocktail parties, and become wildly successful. She views both of our individual successes as incompatible. And for the people bringing up 5 year old threads where I insult people who instantly give up, whatever. I'm STILL not the one giving up here, am I? I still believe that people should work on things, instead of just quit. >shrug<

[Andy8]

Bet on black?

[Big Mac]

Are you sure you really want her back, Cash? I'm sure there's a lot you loved about your wife, and the same was most likely true in the other direction. The thing is, though, that sounds like it's in the past because of her stance. If you didn't have children with her (which it sounds like you did not), then you have an opportunity to make a clean break with her.

It appears that you've been having a lot of professional success plus some setbacks. Perhaps you should focus on your career for a while, get your life in a stabler position, and then start looking for your next relationship.

[Captain Obvious]

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...n/#post2245159

Yeah, yeah... i'm a jerk.
But a one with the prudence to know you shouldn't get married until you are grown up enough to know what it entails and that being "in love" isn't all it takes to make it work for the long haul.

It sucks Rob but you should each follow your own path for a while and in 6 months see if each of you really really severed the final ties. I would talk to someone who does real marriage counseling even if you have to go on your own. That is much more helpful than anything that can be offered here.

[Phileas]

Sorry to hear it Rob. Really, I am.

I've followed your career with interest. You and I work in related fields and I always thought that you had what it takes to succeed in what it is an extremely difficult industry to break into. So, first of all, congratulations to your professional success. Not only have you got talent, you're also prepared to put the necessary work in.

Of course, you've always been an opinionated little ****. Which I also liked, partly because it reminded me of myself when I was your age. Being young and opinionated is not a bad thing if you're with the right people - people who see you for what you are and knock the bullshit out of you while fostering your talent. I was lucky that this happened to me. Looks like you either missed out there, or you were just too much of an ass to listen. That happens.

Problems can happen when you're being who you are to somebody who can't just tell you to cut the crap - like a wife, a girlfriend, a partner. You being a dick towards her when she set out on her personal journey of exploration and discovery, whatever your opinion about the direction she was taking, was an idiotic move - but you that already. She needed your support, she needed you to be part of your life and you were not only not there for her, she was way down on your list of priorities.

What do you expect?

You say you've changed, yet you are still dismissing her and her feelings, telling us that she's always been dramatic. Has it occurred to you that one possible reason for these dramatics might have been that she needed to break through to you? That these dramatics - as you call them disparagingly - might have been a way to tell you that you were needed but not present? ****'s sake Rob, you still haven't woken up.

Next thing, you think that you can just 'fix' things. Fix them by going for a hike, fix them by reading a bunch of books or trying yoga, maybe dabbling in Buddhism. Rob, dude, that's just more of the same don't you see? This isn't about you fixing things, this is about you finding out who you are and a chance for you to become more of the person you want to be - and I don't think you know who you want to be yet.

You got married way too early in my opinion, and although I wished you well at the time, I could not see anybody standing up to you - especially not somebody who was still finding her own way.

My suggestion to you is to find out more about yourself. Get help, and not on the internet. Get yourself a good shrink, start therapy. Find out who you are. If therapy isn't for you, try yoga, try meditation. But for once in your life, try and go with an open mind. You're so full of yourself, so full of certainties that I am not sure you can even begin to change right now. The old Rob needs to go, but he never will until you're prepared to let him go. It sounds to me that you like the idea of being dangerous - whatever the hell that means - and if you're not prepared to change that mindset, nothing will change.

I honestly think that you've got the potential for greatness. But if you don't pull yourself out of this hole you also have the potential to end up in a trailer.

[dav]

sorry ca$h, and i wish you well.
(there are more qualified people than i to give advice.)

[zerostar]

Hey Cash, long time no see. So sorry about the relationship, but unfortunately things are probably over.

EDIT: Phileas said it better than I ever could... good luck to you Cash.

[RAILhead]

Am I the only one that's gonna call BS?

[dcmacdaddy]

Rob,

I am trully sorry to hear this has happened. Yet I am not the least bit surprised. You two were WAY too young to be getting married. So, here is my bit of advice.

Listen to what Phileas/Mastrap said. Even in your struggles with this issue you couldn't step outside of yourself to see things from her perspective. And I mean *really* see things from her perspective such that you don't apply judgment values to her words and actions. I would suggest you undergo a combination of solo marriage counseling, analytical counseling (talk therapy), and time away from your soon-to-be-former wife. While it seems like things are going good for you in your fledgling professional career your personal life is a mess. If you want to invest all your time and energy in your business, by all means do so. But don't be selfish enough to think you can date someone at the same time and offer them any kind of meaningful presence in a relationship. If you want to focus on your business and your career, do so. But do so with the conscious knowledge that you will have to sacrifice other parts of your life in order to devote all your attention to your business. I think you will be much better off in your life as long as you go into such a situation fully cognizant of your choices and why you made them. Then maybe in five or ten years when your business is established you can think again about dating/relationships/marriage.


Good Luck!




PS: I am moving to Madison in about a month. Get in touch via PM if you want to do some talking in person.

[andi*pandi]

I'm so sorry Rob. And while I agree with Phileas that you should have spent more time with her and that a hike won't fix it... I think she had to realize that for better or for worse includes when your spouse is going to school, is working late, has lost a job, it especially includes when things are stressful. Jumping on the divorce train at the first difficulty either means those vows meant nothing, or she's taking the easy way out.

Try for counseling for your own closure, but if she doesn't want to pursue it, move on.

Good luck with this, and with your career.

[ringo]

The schedule you are describing isn't uncommon for someone who is both working and going to school. Maybe you made mistakes along the way, but you can't put all of the blame on yourself for being driven to succeed when she must have had some idea about what she was getting into when she married you.

There's nothing you can do to win someone back who isn't interested in reconciliation. Both of you have to want to try again for there to be any hope of that. If she just isn't interested then move on. Learn whatever there is to be learned from the experience and put it behind you.

[brassplayersrock²]

To be honest, I don't blame her for leaving you. And with this bit " I can get other girls relatively easy" I believe that she deserves a much better man. Karma much?

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I'm so sorry Rob. And while I agree with Phileas that you should have spent more time with her and that a hike won't fix it... I think she had to realize that for better or for worse includes when your spouse is going to school, is working late, has lost a job, it especially includes when things are stressful. Jumping on the divorce train at the first difficulty either means those vows meant nothing, or she's taking the easy way out.

Try for counseling for your own closure, but if she doesn't want to pursue it, move on.

Good luck with this, and with your career.

Or else she realized she made a huge mistake and wants to get out of it before she commits too much of her life to someone she no longer wants to be with.

Divorces are rarely the fault of only one of the two people involved, although one of the two can be a bigger driving force in the dissolution of a marriage. The thing is, if your spouse has decided they don't want to be with you anymore, there's a good chance they've already moved on (not hooking up with other people - I mean mentally). Trying to get them back is futile and, if you do happen to succeed, is likely going to cause resentment on the part of the person who was convinced to return to the relationship.

Obviously this isn't the case with every single divorce situation, but I'm betting that Cash was as big of a douche to his wife as he's been to everyone on the Internet, and she got sick of putting up with his crap all the time.

Particularly if he mocked her for her particular personal beliefs and dogma. That's a great way to build up a bulletproof wall between you and your significant other.

I say move on. Get some counseling if you can't move on by yourself, but it sounds like you married way too soon without thinking about the long-term (lifelong) future, and now the wife is realizing that it wasn't the most responsible decision in the world. It's better to end it now rather than drag it out until you're both in your 50s and realize you've wasted the majority of your life with the wrong person.

[Zeeb]

You have little to no chance of winning her back. She has already ruminated about the relationship for years and has made a decision that will not be retracted at this point as the result of any romance movie-like strategy. You're going to have go through with the divorce.

It sounds like you've learned a little about what needs to be done to maintain a relationship with someone and what priorities you need to have. You also know more about yourself and what you need.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Her direction is yoga, alternative energy, homeopathic medicines, tarot cards, and she goes to moon circle.

Face it Rob: you're just not going to work well with this.

I mean, some people can do it - the Republican marrying the Democrat, the Catholic marrying the Protestant, the Jewish girl marrying the Christian guy, etc. etc. - but I truly believe it takes a special kind of personality to work through these sort of fundamental and/or ideological differences. It takes not "rising to the bait", accepting things for the way they are and realizing that's just "how it is", and a willingness to shut your own mouth and nod and smile when someone else says something you just know is "wrong/stupid/controversial". Amongst other things.

Note how you probably don't fit into any of those characterizations.

greg

[QuadG5Man]

Cash,

Sorry to hear about this. I wish I could tell you there's hope, but like others have said, just move on.

And prepare yourself for the fact that she may already have a new man in her life. They typically do.

[turtle777]

Rob,

I'm sorry to hear, this is an awful lot of stuff happening at the same time.

I agree with the others, as hard as it might sound, don't make winning her back the #1 thing.
Look at what's happening to you, and all the realization how you can become a better person, as a chance to press a restart button. Then maximize the opportunities you're gonna get, which will come if you truly got through with that change.

I believe that if continue down the road you now started, you will meet someone great sooner or later, someone that really fits and complements you. Heck, maybe you *can* win her back, but only if she sees genuine change in you, and not just someone who changed to win her back.

To be honest, whatever you believe in (fate, karma, God, etc.), "it" had to do something radical like that to get you off the track you were on, and get all the crap and arrogance out of you that you exhibited in the past. You sound like someone who really has the potential to be great, but you gotta make it happen and continue to change.

Good luck to you.

-t

P.S. Since you are discovering that you have to turn from many of your old beliefs and adopt new beliefs, how about giving the Christian faith a real chance ? You know, praying doesn't cost anything, other than putting your pride aside. What do you have to lose ?

[finboy]

Originally Posted by ringo 

The schedule you are describing isn't uncommon for someone who is both working and going to school. Maybe you made mistakes along the way, but you can't put all of the blame on yourself for being driven to succeed when she must have had some idea about what she was getting into when she married you.

I always marveled that you had so much going on so early in your life. You've managed to do amazing things in a short time, whatever else has gone on around you.

EVERYONE goes through at least one or two cycles of aggressive self-centeredness. Or at least everyone who is successful does. Don't beat yourself up for that. It used to be called "purpose" or "calling" and people didn't used to think about apologizing for it.

Sounds like both of you need to do some growing up. I don't say that lightly. In my experience, when someone says she needs to "find herself" you need to get the hell out of the way.

Just be glad that you don't have children in the middle of this. That changes everything, of course.

All you can do now is let her know how you feel (that is your right, and she's obligated to listen, up to a point) and let her have her space.

Most important thing: get an attorney. Quick. Regardless of your feelings, you need to have someone watching out for your legal rights.

[SSharon]

Sorry to hear this news Rob.

I don't have any advice to give, just my support.

Good luck with everything (and for the record I was always for unbanning you here).

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Face it Rob: you're just not going to work well with this.

I mean, some people can do it - the Republican marrying the Democrat, the Catholic marrying the Protestant, the Jewish girl marrying the Christian guy, etc. etc. - but I truly believe it takes a special kind of personality to work through these sort of fundamental and/or ideological differences. It takes not "rising to the bait", accepting things for the way they are and realizing that's just "how it is", and a willingness to shut your own mouth and nod and smile when someone else says something you just know is "wrong/stupid/controversial". Amongst other things.

Note how you probably don't fit into any of those characterizations.

greg

Have to agree with this, to an extent. My marriage works because we spiritually "click", we're all hardcore occultists and have devoted our lives to the study, but we do have some rather large political and philosophical differences. I deal with these by taking them seriously and accepting their concerns. We communicate constantly and always give support, but we give each other space when it's needed.

There have been times I wanted to ask if they were out of their ****ing minds (writing large checks to Greenpeace or going to Green party fund raisers), but I just smile and ask what I can do for them. By the same token, they don't go nuts about my gun collection or music systems. The secret to that is telling them, in general terms, how much I'm spending... and not leaving a loaded .45 on the kitchen counter. We still have arguments, but they're minor, and usually just for sport. The key is to never try to cause them harm, whether with words or actions, and always show them how much you care, no matter how trivial you think the matter is.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Most important thing: get an attorney. Quick. Regardless of your feelings, you need to have someone watching out for your legal rights.

You wouldn't want her getting the stereo.

[Doofy]

Sorry to hear that Rob.

My gut instinct is that it's over. The "Her direction is yoga, alternative energy, homeopathic medicines, tarot cards, and she goes to moon circle" is the decider - in my experience, a girl getting into such stuff is not compatible with a guy like you (and when I say a guy like you, I'm not meaning the "ass" which most other people here see - I'm meaning the nice but blokey guy I've spoken to on chat). The alternative path she's getting into is often rampant with feminism - essentially she's had her mind poisoned. There's just no coming back from that unless you want to start wearing sandals, eating muesli and having your nads squeezed in a vice. I can't see you being happy whilst doing that.

The exact same thing happened to one of my homies about two years ago. They've stuck together for the sake of their kid but it's a completely loveless marriage. That's no good for anyone.

Irreversible error. Get shut and take six months to a year working on you, on your life. Then get back into the fray and look for fresh meat.

Don't be beating yourself up - she knew who you were when she married you. She also agreed to the school thing. This is not you - it's her.

Also, stop all this crap about you lacking "character and integrity". That's BS mate. if you didn't have character, nobody posting in this thread would know who the heck you were.

[smacintush]

Rob,
Quit your ****ing crying and get over it. Stand up like a ****ing man, suck it up and move on. You are young and you have no kids (?), divorce isn't the end…it's the beginning.

If you ask me, the feeling like you have to be with someone forever at your age is a form of mental illness.

The best thing you can do is get on with your life. Not this sissy "finding yourself" bullshit, which is simply thinly veiled self-pity. I mean get on with your REAL LIFE. Get YOUR **** together. At this point anything else is mental/emotional masturbation.

- Brian

[Jawbone54]

I'm not sure I have any good advice that would be worth posting and considering, but my heart goes out to ya, man. Sorry about all this mess.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Am I the only one that's gonna call BS?

Nope. Its legit.
I checked before I posted because I thought it was bait. Papers were filed on April 29. My firm has access to all sorts of scary databases.

Prenups don't sound so stupid now, do they?
I'd pull up that thread too but its getting redundant.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

P.S. Since you are discovering that you have to turn from many of your old beliefs and adopt new beliefs, how about giving the Christian faith a real chance ? You know, praying doesn't cost anything, other than putting your pride aside. What do you have to lose ?

[Big Mac]

You went to that amount of trouble to check up on his story? You must be really dedicated to the trials and tribulations of Cash.

[Captain Obvious]

For me it requires putting in your name into a couple fields and hitting enter.
Hardly effort. Finding those "classic threads" took you people longer.

[Laminar]

What do you mean, "you people"?

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

Prenups don't sound so stupid now, do they?

I used to be hardcore against prenups, buying into the myth that a prenup explicitly and inevitably means that you don't really love and/or trust your spouse, and that you don't intend on being married forever.

The best intentions can still make you look like an idiot when everything comes crashing down in your life. I'll never get married without an accompanying prenup.

You gotta protect what you've worked for, you know?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

The best intentions can still make you look like an idiot when everything comes crashing down in your life. I'll never get married without an accompanying prenup.

You gotta protect what you've worked for, you know?

So... in other words... you now have more money than your potential significant other?

greg

[downinflames68]

To everyone, thank you for the support. To those who've said I told you so, accused me of being a dick, etc... I understand where you are coming from. I used to be really angry about everything, and some days, I still am. But I'm trying to be more productive, instead of just getting mad; trying to find common ground, instead of trying to cut others down. I believe everyone has a lot of potential, and it can't be unlocked by trying to prove other people wrong, holding grudges, and trying to "win" against everyone else. I used to very much have an aggressive win-lose mentality, so I definitely understand why you feel this way about me. It makes sense that you'd think of me as unchanged, but I have made some progress. I am now trying to look for mutually beneficial exchanges, instead of ripping other people down constantly, and am only sure of one thing; which is that I know nothing. I can still be assertive when I need to be, but I don't need to live that way constantly.

Before you dismiss this as BS, I'd like to remind you that I haven't posted here in a long long time, and for the past few years, every time I do post, I get banned purely because I'd been banned in the past, not because of behavior. People can and do change, if they want to.

As for her... I'm not crying over spilt milk. It's just that I have a lot invested in that relationship, and it'd be nice to find something that could work out. Maybe it will, eventually, but for now I see divorce as the only option, even if I don't really believe in it.

Again, thank you everyone for sharing your opinions, experiences, etc. Googling for such advice yields nothing but get rich quick "Doctors" who want you to pay $50 for their stupid book or system. Not actual knowledge/experience.

[climber]

Buy her a gift. Nothing expensive, just find a simple item that says with one look by her that you finally get it. Something that represents her interests, desires and dreams that you neglected and or dismissed for all those years.

Even then you still have no chance. Because deep down she knows and thinks you will say anything to get her back and nothing would really change, and she is right.

[imitchellg5]

I don't think divorce is ever the correct solution, but sometimes it's impossible for things to happen otherwise. I'm really sorry to hear about this, but maybe it's time to start over. A fresh new Ca$h with a great career and high goals for himself. You've got the willpower I believe.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I don't think divorce is ever the correct solution, but sometimes it's impossible for things to happen otherwise. .

Sorry to butt in on this thread, but what solution do you have for these such (as you say above) marriages other than divorce?

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

To everyone, thank you for the support. To those who've said I told you so, accused me of being a dick, etc... I understand where you are coming from. I used to be really angry about everything, and some days, I still am. But I'm trying to be more productive, instead of just getting mad; trying to find common ground, instead of trying to cut others down. I believe everyone has a lot of potential, and it can't be unlocked by trying to prove other people wrong, holding grudges, and trying to "win" against everyone else. I used to very much have an aggressive win-lose mentality, so I definitely understand why you feel this way about me. It makes sense that you'd think of me as unchanged, but I have made some progress. I am now trying to look for mutually beneficial exchanges, instead of ripping other people down constantly, and am only sure of one thing; which is that I know nothing. I can still be assertive when I need to be, but I don't need to live that way constantly.

Before you dismiss this as BS, I'd like to remind you that I haven't posted here in a long long time, and for the past few years, every time I do post, I get banned purely because I'd been banned in the past, not because of behavior. People can and do change, if they want to.

As for her... I'm not crying over spilt milk. It's just that I have a lot invested in that relationship, and it'd be nice to find something that could work out. Maybe it will, eventually, but for now I see divorce as the only option, even if I don't really believe in it.

Again, thank you everyone for sharing your opinions, experiences, etc. Googling for such advice yields nothing but get rich quick "Doctors" who want you to pay $50 for their stupid book or system. Not actual knowledge/experience.

Who are you and what have you done with Rob?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Who are you and what have you done with Rob?

Beat me to it.

Seriously, if you've changed like you say you have, good for you! People can change, but they must want to, and it sounds like you're realizing you weren't such a pleasant person to be around a lot of the time.

As to the idea of winning her back; forget it. It's over, as others have said. Move on with your life, take what you've learned, and hopefully are still learning, and go in a more positive direction. The idea that marriage must be an insoluble solution has never cut it, because people are often different, and don't realize some things until after marriage. The world isn't a perfect place and we shouldn't place impossible demands on ourselves.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I don't think divorce is ever the correct solution…

This kind of retarded thinking is part of the problem.

If Rob hadn't had it stuck in his head that this relationship just HAD TO LAST FOREVER(!!!) this would be much easier for him, and everyone else in his situation IMO.

The problem isn't divorce, it's marriage. People are in such a hurry to get married and feel that marriage is a must-do goal of life (without really putting much thought into WHY marriage is so damn necessary) that they rush into it either when they are not ready or with the wrong person. Then when forever never comes, they are devastated.

[Shaddim]

Send a her a note telling her that you wish her well and that you hope she has a good life. Then don't contact her anymore.

Who knows? It just might work.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Send a her a note telling her that you wish her well and that you hope she has a good life. Then don't contact her anymore.

Who knows? It just might work.

This is probably the best idea yet.

[Spheric Harlot]

Don't mean to be overly flippant, Rob, but this just reminded me of the old adage:


Men love women for what they are; women love men for their potential.

The problem is that women change, and men don't.

[angelmb]

PM sent.

[OreoCookie]

Just a few comments (I don't want to repeat the good advice other people have already given here):
(1) Give up all the self-improvement tape bs. That won't help one bit. You tend to wallow in self-pity and become even more self-centered.
(2) Before doing anything, and I assume you have already done this, be honest to yourself and make a list of your priorities. You've said that your wife wasn't in the top 5 in the past. Where is she now? To be honest, some parts of your post indicate that they haven't really changed (`her breaking point did not coincide with my school schedule'). Even if she now may be #1 and your work is #2, this may still be mutually exclusive (your wife certainly thinks so).

It seems to me that her reaction is rather kind and reasonable: she thinks that the directions your lives are going to take are incompatible. Read: even if you sacrifice your career, she knows it'll make you unhappy and she doesn't want that. Even if the future she imagines for you (life in a big city with all these artsy folks) is not what you have in mind, it doesn't matter. That's her opinion and I doubt it'll change.
(3) I think the most important thing you should do is not to be agreeable to `be easy' and not make a fuss. But you should treat her with respect. That includes respecting her wish to end the relationship. Even if you think that her reasons are stupid and she acts prematurely. Don't beg to get her back. Don't grovel. Don't kneel. Ever. This will only make matters worse. Honestly, I don't think a phase where `we spend some time alone and see what happens' is particularly useful. I certainly cannot remember the last time that trick has really worked.

You have to accept the fact that you have failed in this aspect of life this time. You will not be able to make amends for what you've failed to do over the last few years. There is no magic fix on page 5,723 of some google hit list. Stop looking for it. Get your priorities in order and accept the consequences they entail (that's what growing up means to me at least). Accept that you'll have to go through a very rough patch of life, I think it has happened to most of us here.

Keep your feet in motion, try not to wallow in self-pity and keep yourself busy. That's the best advice I can give you.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

PM sent.

I never got it.

[ebuddy]

Ca$h? Zoinks man, what up?!?

I'm probably just echoing many others' sentiment, but from what I've noticed about several failed marriages around me (3 this year alone and my brother from two years makes 4); once the woman loses respect for a man it is done. There is no going back. Of course, for a changed man it won't matter. There's no dog and pony show at this point. Be yourself.

I must say that what has bothered me about this is the male trend I see in these marriages. The guy in the relationship wasn't aware of how terminal the situation was. In many cases the woman is dropping serious enough hints like... "we should see a counselor" or "I'm not happy" or "Can you picture us together in 10 years" and the man is like; "You know I love ya honey" only to be served with papers several months later. They like to do their thing. The woman is #5 on the list of priorities so long that the woman becomes content when you're not there. In fact, over time she prefers it when you're not there. Because she's cute, she gets treated like a queen at work, at school, or pretty much everywhere you're not. She starts telling herself she's still young and hot and deserves more. I find more often than not there is also another guy involved in some capacity. (4 of 4 in the situations around me) I'm just sayin'. This helps the ol' resolve for them. Then, all your little quirks that used to be clever and cute are now disgusting and annoying and it becomes simply unacceptable to remain with you. Once they've gone there, there is no going back for them.

Someone else pretty much nailed it by saying that women change, men don't. The good news is you can change to the extent that you can maintain a happy relationship through concession, care, and understanding, but you have to be paying close attention to your wife. When you haven't been, you're eventually trying to play catch-up with both your feet in a potato sack while she's already past the finish line. If she offers any glimpse of hope of salvaging the relationship, do what you can to accommodate communication and express your empathy with her side, remain available, and be fun to be around. Otherwise do not despair my friend, but learn from this.

[Tiresias]

But sometimes is isn't too late because sometimes women use emotional brinkmanship to take the relationship to a new level. If Robert is a smart guy, he will know what changes his wife wants him to make, and if he really cares about her and wants her back, he will makes those changes.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Tiresias 

But sometimes is isn't too late because sometimes women use emotional brinkmanship to take the relationship to a new level. If Robert is a smart guy, he will know what changes his wife wants him to make, and if he really cares about her and wants her back, he will makes those changes.

That's a load of bull. If she wants to change him, to make him something he is not, it doesn't matter how much he cares about her or wants her back. NO ONE should change who they are to please someone else. If she doesn't love him for who he is, screw her and good riddance.

If Rob has realized he doesn't like the way he deals with people or his attitude towards life, make some changes in how you deal with people or the attitude you take in life. But no matter how hard you try, you can't change who you ARE.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

Sorry to butt in on this thread, but what solution do you have for these such (as you say above) marriages other than divorce?

Both parties need to work together. When you said those vows, you had to have wanted the marriage to last. I think marriage counseling is a good way to go.

[brassplayersrock²]

Mitch, she left him for a good reason, and I'm sure that he'll never change in her mind. I'm happy for her, she stood up for what she wanted, and due to this, her life will be much better now.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Your incessant hard-on hate for Cash is kinda annoying.

Just saying.

greg

[brassplayersrock²]

No reason for me to step around the shells. The truth hurts sometimes.