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MacBook Pro 2020 display issue
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Doc HM
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Sep 29, 2023, 05:01 AM
 
Thought I'd try here as this is something I've not seen before and feel I'm missing something...

My 2020 intel 13in MacBook Pro has an issue I’ve not seen before in about 25 years of Mac use. I’ve just replaced the screen after the original was damaged.
It boots fine and displays the Apple logo on the main display. About 1/3 of the way through booting the process seems to stop and in fact I thought it was freezing. Turns out it’s actually booted and the desktop displays on an external hdmi display fine. The internal screen does not show up in display preferences but is showing the Ventura boot stripe and desktop. Tried resetting nvram but it appears reluctant to do this. Any ideas?

I know that on this model replacing the screen outside of apple disables the True Tone function (don't care) but is it also messing with basic functionality?
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reader50
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Sep 29, 2023, 01:08 PM
 
The Right to Repair people have been fighting with Apple for years over hardware sync issues. Particularly on iOS devices. Apple's only just begun to release the resync utilities to 3rd party repair shops, which they should have done all along.

Sounds like it's rejecting the display when the high-level graphics drivers load. Does the display at least appear in System Profiler?

I'd suggest an OS reinstall, see if a fresh copy will accept the hardware it's installed to.
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Oct 6, 2023, 10:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
The Right to Repair people have been fighting with Apple for years over hardware sync issues. Particularly on iOS devices. Apple's only just begun to release the resync utilities to 3rd party repair shops, which they should have done all along.

Sounds like it's rejecting the display when the high-level graphics drivers load. Does the display at least appear in System Profiler?

I'd suggest an OS reinstall, see if a fresh copy will accept the hardware it's installed to.
Tried that, no joy. Not happy as this particular model is not supported by Apples repair portal so no access to the resin utility for it.
I have a 2021 16in M1 Max screen and that did come from Apple so I can resend the lid angle sensor. This seems to go a little beyond a lid angle. The screen doesn't even show up in the display preferences despite it physically showing an image.
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ghporter
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Oct 6, 2023, 11:09 AM
 
I’m trying to understand the lid angle sensor thing. Is it acting like it doesn’t see the lid being open? Would that make the machine not see the display? Or something else?

Anyway, clearly at some point there’s a step in the boot sequence where it enumerates all the hardware, and your MBP is not accurately noting the replacement display - even though it does at least send some video to it. If this particular repair breaks True Tone, what else have Apple’s demons (not daemons) tinkered with to prevent non-Apple repairs? Where does that secret handshake that the boot code needs come from?

Partly my curiosity is academic/rights-based, but partly it’s about how Apple’s Intel machines boot to begin with. I kind of thought that EFI was essentially standardized, even if it isn’t really open-source.

It looks like hardware initialization, especially the display, happens during POST, so the display should be either recognized or not very early in the process.

The rEFIt project on Sourceforge points out some interesting details about Apple’s Intel-based EFI. In particular, there’s an Open Source version of the Tiano framework available. It’s not the whole thing, but it may provide insights into where the hardware discovery looks for the display.

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reader50
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Oct 6, 2023, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
... The screen doesn't even show up in the display preferences despite it physically showing an image.
I meant to check in what used to be called System Profiler and now goes by "System Report" or "more info" in the About macOS dialog.

Use the easy way to reach it Apple has provided since the beginning of the Mac for the past 49 years:
Apple menu -> About This Mac -> [More Info...] -> (scroll down to) [System Report...] -> Hardware -> Graphics/Displays -> (check the 1-2x GPUs for attached devices)

Or the hard way: You'd have to memorize the path: /Applications/Utilities/System Information.app

Edit: the old shortcut does still work: Apple menu -> (option) System Information

An unknown display device may be visible here (with a compatibility complaint if you're lucky) even if it doesn't appear in the higher-level Display tools.

Side note: I'm really hating how Apple is making things harder in order to iOS-ify macOS. Which no one asked for. That's why I'm staying on Monterey for now - at least I've still got a normal System Preferences that doesn't make you pull your own hair out to find anything.
( Last edited by reader50; Oct 6, 2023 at 05:43 PM. )
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Oct 10, 2023, 11:07 AM
 
So managed to grab another screen, this time a used one from another MacBook Pro. Works fine so I assume faulty screen!
Talking of faulty screen: Purchased a 16in 2021 M1 screen from Apples self service portal which came with a lid angle sensor. Surprisingly easy to replace both but having done that the new sensor and screen have to be connected to Apples system tool to "calibrate" the lid angle sensor.
Annoyingly this failed multiple times. System diagnostics revealed a failed ambient light sensor in the new screen. No biggy I assumed, it's new, faulty and under warranty from one of the largest companies in the world. Go online, return faulty screen, get replacement, fix and all is good.

Not so much it turns out. Apple have decided that in order to return a faulty screen I have to purchase another new one. They will then refund me the old screen once I return THAT, with the caveat that if they decide it isn't faulty, or that it isn't still in perfect condition, they will not issue a refund. This means another £750 for a second screen until Apple get round to (maybe) issuing a refund. If you simply don't have a spare £750 then Apples return policy makes it impossible to return faulty products.

Currently in the middle of explaining to them that in Europe and the UK this is illegal under the Consumer Rights Act which has involved escalating the dispute to management.
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reader50
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Oct 10, 2023, 12:29 PM
 
That's not a Return. It's a one-way purchase, with optional Exchange, and possible refund of the Exchange. With Apple assuming no risks.

Consider if you ordered the wrong screen by mistake. Cursor jumped when clicking, and you didn't catch it. According to that scenario, you cannot return it. You have to end up buying/keeping a wrong screen, to proudly set on your mantle. The exact screen may be negotiable, but a purchase of that part is not reversible.

Too one-sided for my taste.
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Oct 10, 2023, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post

Too one-sided for my taste.
Also illegal. In the UK you have a statutory right to return a faulty item for a full refund within the first 30 days. In addition for internet purchasers you have an again statutory right to return a purchase within 14 days. FOR ANY REASON as long as it’s still in the same condition you bought it in.

Apple tried to explain that their terms and conditions supersede my statutory rights under the 2015 consumer rights act. Obviously they do not.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Oct 18, 2023, 09:11 AM
 
Update: After pressing things quite hard and exacting up to management I can now return my screen in accordance with my basic UK consumer rights.
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ghporter
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Oct 18, 2023, 12:58 PM
 
We’re the customer “service” people in the UK or in California? Not that it would change “breaking the law” to something else, but I’m curious.

My son worked for a multinational hospitality firm for several years, and ANY time something had to do with the EU, they broke out the rules and read them. In particular, the rules on securing customers’ private information was Strongly Emphasized to everyone involved. Not a good thing to bankrupt the company because you jot down a credit card number, right?

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Doc HM  (op)
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Oct 20, 2023, 10:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
We’re the customer “service” people in the UK or in California? Not that it would change “breaking the law” to something else, but I’m curious.

My son worked for a multinational hospitality firm for several years, and ANY time something had to do with the EU, they broke out the rules and read them. In particular, the rules on securing customers’ private information was Strongly Emphasized to everyone involved. Not a good thing to bankrupt the company because you jot down a credit card number, right?
I'm not sure where the customer service people are. It's a global portal. I entered it via the .co.uk address but the .com one looks identical. The parts distribution is from Europe but that could be entirely separate from the customer service.

Apple have form on policy that is in direct contravention of EU (and now) UK consumer law. They seem to think that their way is just naturally better for the customer because... well... Apple, so they have in the past simply ignored legislation. Which usually catches up with them sooner or later.
Additionally their official self service portal will by definition deal mostly with independent tech businesses, where the consumer rights act does not apply. But they should train their operatives to spot when it does.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Nov 20, 2023, 05:44 PM
 
So that's a win.
Final update on the screen return shenannigans with Apple.

The old screen went back courtesy of my hard won return label and with only one extra prompting the money was refunded. So THEN I could go back and order a replacement screen. And look here. New on the self service portal is a prominent notice saying that Apples return policy is offered in addition to and not instead of that required by consumer protection legislation.

Initially my expectations was a heavy loss to a company that cares as little as Apple do about their actual customers individual experiences, but, fair enough, now everyone gets to not have to pay twice up front.

Oh and PS the replacement screen worked fine and sync'd itself with Apple almost no problem. The first time it failed again but this turned out to be a wifi issue, after Apple claimed it was because the repair had taken longer than 30 days.
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reader50
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Nov 20, 2023, 07:49 PM
 
Better than I'd expected. Was thinking they'd presently stop taking your calls, and you'd have to pursue legal remedies. That sort of thing has happened several times when US companies ran afoul of European privacy rights.
     
   
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