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"Nobody cares where you went to college"
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Back in the Good Ole US of A
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I've always felt that it's a waste of money to go to an expensive school. My own personal experience is that I went to a small liberal arts college for a year in the early 80s and dropped out. I've been able to succeed in my career without a degree and am totally self-taught.
My husband is pursuing his Master of Social Work and is deciding whether to go to a local well regarded university here in Northern Virginia or a (fully accredited) online university for half the cost. I'm trying to not let my personal bias influence him too much and am curious what others think.
Expensive local school or cheaper online alternative.
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
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Here's what the missus (MFT) has to say...
As far as getting the Masters, it really doesn't matter much where it comes from. Yes, there will always be employers who go for the name schools in a resume, but, all things considered, as long as the online school is properly accredited, it really doesn't matter.
Her big caveat is this: As soon as your husband gets the MSW, he needs to get licensed asap. Like, immediately. Without licensing, his chance of getting hired anywhere is close to zilch.
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Last edited by Thorzdad; Apr 21, 2019 at 01:15 PM.
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
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it may depend on the college and degree. At many job interviews my college has been influential in my hiring. ( bosses also went there)
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
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I'm sure there was someone on this forum a while back with plenty of experience in college education. Something about his nephew and a law degree?
I think a degree always helps even later in your career people take note of it. Unless the university is first rate I'm not sure the place matters as much (ie yes Cambridge, Edinburgh, Kent or Sussex not so much - insert US eq here).
I wish I had a degree instead of my diploma it would make a huge difference with jobs I could apply for, for example all teaching is out.
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This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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My ex is an LPC.
Her take is people won’t look at an online degree seriously.
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
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I think that hugely depends on the field, the circumstances and the precise universities you are talking about. Let me give you an example: if you are studying engineering, my alma mater has a crap ton of collaborations with various industry partners. That gives those partners (think Airbus, BMW, GE and others) access to a huge pool of students who are enrolled in one of Germany's top engineering programs. You better believe that it makes a huge difference — especially if your dream is to work for one of these companies after graduation. It also makes a difference for other areas where a degree and/or a license is a non-negotiable pre-requisite such as medicine or law.
In fields where you don't need formal education (like programming or business), you have other ways of entering the job market that is not tied to formal education. Here, it matters much less.
There is a third aspect, and that are social networks: just by accident I met someone who graduated from Berkeley in a subway in Munich, and I told him I spent four months there during my PhD. He gave me his business card and told me I could call him in case I am looking for a job. This can be worth money.
In my line of work, academia, the places you have been to and who you have worked with makes a supreme difference. Statistically speaking, in most countries there are a few universities that produce the next generation of professors, usually the Ivy League and perhaps Baby Ivys, so there are cases where people are actively discouraged to go to really good professor A because they are at a mid-level university. That happened to a friend of mine: we spent two years in Toronto and this professor told him point-blank: “You can come here, I'd be happy to work with you, but it might hurt your career.”
There are tons of universities in every country and name recognition outside of a handful is decreasing rapidly. I'm at a baby Ivy here in Japan now, but even if you are in academia, you probably wouldn't know the name. Brand recognition may be different locally, though.
Lastly, let me say that there is a special issue in the US (and perhaps the UK) with regards to tuition fees. Their growth has far outpaced inflation, which in turn makes studying at university a less financially sensible proposition. And there seem to be predatory “universities” whose diplomas are as valuable as toilet paper. The situation is very different in countries where universities are either free or cheaper, because whether something is “worth it” is not necessarily a financial question.
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Both of my post-college jobs came about as a result of social connections I made in college. My degree and GPA and knowledge and skills don't matter if I don't get that first foot in the door.
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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Where I work, I’ve seen people with zero experience and HS diplomas get technician and supervisor jobs over people with college degrees and years of experience. Your education and experience matter only if you plan on leaving and going to another company. Neither matter if you are tagged as indispensable to the production line.
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45/47
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Irvine, CA
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In general fresh out of college, your university and degree matters most. 10 years out, connections matter more, but college degrees may matter a bit, not a lot.
Edit: my sister chimed in and said her degree doesn’t matter much, but where she went to school matters a lot. She works for a large nutrition and infant formula company.
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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The one time a "name" school can make a difference is when that school has a markedly higher success rate for graduates - percent who pass certification board exams, percent who get licensed within x months, etc.
SOME employers still think of online schools as "diploma mills" and don't take them seriously. That is a mistake most of the time. Almost all of the post-professional programs in Occupational Therapy are online; anywhere from 90% to 99% online collaboration, research, research publication, papers, etc. Here we are talking about doctoral programs where the student already knows a bunch about the subject, but now needs to develop skills to utilize, perform, and document effective academic and health care research that truly "adds to human knowledge" in a unique way. That doesn't sound much like something a "diploma mill" might be able to handle...
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
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Originally Posted by Chongo
Where I work, I’ve seen people with zero experience and HS diplomas get technician and supervisor jobs over people with college degrees and years of experience. Your education and experience matter only if you plan on leaving and going to another company. Neither matter if you are tagged as indispensable to the production line.
I am not sure this is representative of good hiring practice: people with experience and/or degrees are more expensive, and a lot of companies try to get away with banking on enthusiasm rather than knowledge and/or experience.
Originally Posted by mindwaves
In general fresh out of college, your university and degree matters most. 10 years out, connections matter more, but college degrees may matter a bit, not a lot.
That's a good point, and IMHO quite reflective of what I see. A degree will help you get a foot in the door, and therefore might be a good option if you want to change careers.
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Back in the Good Ole US of A
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Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses. This is very helpful. My husband is disadvantaged a bit since he was 44 years old when we finally returned to the U.S. and he was able to start his career. He's playing a bit of catch-up and will be 50 when he gets his MSW. His undergrad degrees (B.S. in Computer Science / B.S. in Psychology) are from University of Maryland University College. Thankfully, no prospective employer has intimated his degrees were from a "diploma mill". He's presently working in the behavioral health field but can't advance far without a Master's. I'm encouraging him to consult his coworkers for advice since they all have MSWs or PhDs.
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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I received my MOT a couple months after my 50th birthday. In a profession that takes people skills, being “not a kid anymore” is actually an advantage, no matter how old one’s colleagues are.
Life experience is essential to success in behavioral health. Occupational therapy is a psychosocial profession; we started out helping veterans of the First World War heal both their bodies and their minds, and I have had more than a little experience using that psychosocial expertise along the way.
Personal life experience, which allows one to connect with a variety of clients in their space, understanding their histories and life challenges has allowed me to use my academic and clinical training to make a real difference in their lives.
Your husband’s variety of experiences will (and probably already have) serve him well, and between that experience and his degree, any good employer will see him as a great addition to their team.
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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One added bit...
If your husband is going the LSW/LCSW route, and it’s anything like the LPC/LCPC system, he should brace himself for a starting salary which works out to minimum wage.
I’m sure he expects low pay, but it starts out insultingly low.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Back in the Good Ole US of A
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Actually, I was wrong... it's not an MSW, it's a BCBA program. Since we returned to the U.S. he's been trying to immerse himself in as many areas of mental health as possible. He's worked in a mental institution, done direct clinical care and management at an independent living facility, and now is in crisis intervention/jail diversion at the emergency services department of the county community services board. He's changed jobs 3 times now which may be perceived negatively but he's desperate to make up lost time. Salaries in behavior analysis seem pretty good but ultimately that's not his primary concern.
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Senior User
Join Date: Jul 2020
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Irvine, CA
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Yes, it does matter, but only for your 1st one to two jobs, and then it doesn't matter. Had a 55+ year old guy apply for a job at my company and I was reviewing his resume. He still uses a Harvard email address for this email correspondence. He just can't let it drop. I asked him to submit more stuff before his resume as evidence and he decided to decline the interview. I guess it is because he figured he was not up to snuff with the job requirements and decided to apply and thought that he would get accepted just because of his former (and long time ago) education.
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
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I keep my CV and résumé updated on a not-so-regular basis. I update things like “years at” and mentoring events (occupational therapy education requires hands-on practice in real world environments, and I’ve been a clinical instructor for several students), and stuff like that. But my experience includes a full career in the USAF, as well as my professional education and experience, which changes things quite a bit. (Note to self: time to refresh stuff...it’s been a while.)
But I think it’s a good idea to review those things on a résumé that (I think) should get plenty of attention. Like where you got your professional education. Not for prestige or anything like that, but for that potentially retrospective issue of “oh, that’s the school that...”. Yeah, some schools lose accreditation, while others continue to rack up kudos.
Plus it could be an “in” thing for some schools; if you went to Enormous State University and the guy doing the interview went to ESU as well, there’s a potential for some sort of advantage. Of course if you went to ESU and the interviewer went to their bitter rivals, University of Enormous State, that’s a different issue.
There’s also university “branding” issues. My professional school, the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio is now called “UT Health San Antonio,” and all the other UT system medical schools have been similarly rebranded. “You know, the Health Science Center here...” is something that gets batted around in school discussions.
Another example of this is Texas State University, formerly known as “Southwest Texas State University,” and way farther back, “Texas State Teacher’s College.” Somewhere after it became Southwest Texas, it got the reputation as a party school with great programs in a variety of subjects. In that order... So for a first or second job, knowing that your school was first known as a party school can make a difference, and writing your résumé accordingly - stressing non-partying stuff - is important.
Oh, and I use a “professional” email address for all professional interactions, and have since before I graduated - on the advice of several experienced OTs. Good thing too, since my school eventually went to a “Live Mail” scheme for student email accounts, and they phased out the accounts for graduates a while back. I can’t imagine getting any mileage out of a Live Mail address anyway...
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
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Originally Posted by mindwaves
Yes, it does matter, but only for your 1st one to two jobs, and then it doesn't matter.
I think this is solid advice for most fields. For if you got into [fancy university] on your own merits, it is indeed a sign that you are ambitious and capable. But at a certain point, there are better metrics for success.
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I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
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Originally Posted by mindwaves
Yes, it does matter, but only for your 1st one to two jobs, and then it doesn't matter. Had a 55+ year old guy apply for a job at my company and I was reviewing his resume. He still uses a Harvard email address for this email correspondence. He just can't let it drop. I asked him to submit more stuff before his resume as evidence and he decided to decline the interview. I guess it is because he figured he was not up to snuff with the job requirements and decided to apply and thought that he would get accepted just because of his former (and long time ago) education.
I agree with the first point (cred after college decreases and on the job experience increases), with some minor exceptions.
1) it's HARVARD. Most people would be impressed. Even if it's Yale (or wherever), that email address is going to look more respectable than [email protected].
2) networking. The harvard (or wherever) email didn't work on you, but if you were a harvard (or wherever) guy you might be more inclined to meet a fellow alum.
(Another reason to use university email address: it is a useful redirect. My husband uses his university alum email. If we have to switch from verizon to comcast he doesn't change email addresses. )
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