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starman · Dec 8, 2006, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Millennium

If I released a Barney game for the 360 and it got popular, would that make the 360 a kiddy-machine? That's your logic, in whatever way the term 'logic' could possibly apply.

No, but if all MS allowed were rated E kiddie games, then you have a problem. I bought Viva Pinata last night. What a damn fun game, but that doesn't make the 360 'kiddie'.

wallinbl · Dec 8, 2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Now why would they do that if its the players fault?

Because the US has exited reality and entered the "big corps owe little guys money" distortion field created by attorneys.

Seriously, though, if you threw your tennis racket and broke it while playing, would you go back to Head and tell them it was their fault? Or how about racquetball? If you've played it, surely you've had your opponent smack you with a racket. Must be the fault of the racket. Or, what about the YMCA. After all, they did put that court there, and that's where you were when your buddy smacked you.

Dakar² · Dec 8, 2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Seriously, though, if you threw your tennis racket and broke it while playing, would you go back to Head and tell them it was their fault? Or how about racquetball?

If they had really bad grips, you'd be justified in suing.

Does the Wiimote have rubber grips to prevent slippage?

starman · Dec 8, 2006, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Because the US has exited reality and entered the "big corps owe little guys money" distortion field created by attorneys.

Seriously, though, if you threw your tennis racket and broke it while playing, would you go back to Head and tell them it was their fault? Or how about racquetball? If you've played it, surely you've had your opponent smack you with a racket. Must be the fault of the racket. Or, what about the YMCA. After all, they did put that court there, and that's where you were when your buddy smacked you.

I used to play tennis. Tennis raquets have anti-slip grips of some kind. You put the Wiimote plastic on a tennis raquet and see how well players do with it.

Dakar² · Dec 8, 2006, 01:03 PM

Beat you to it.

Calimus · Dec 8, 2006, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by starman

No, but if all MS allowed were rated E kiddie games, then you have a problem. I bought Viva Pinata last night. What a damn fun game, but that doesn't make the 360 'kiddie'.

I'm not sure if you are targeting Nintendo here, but they are actively pursuing adult themed games. Reggie himself said they've done all they can to get Rockstar to bring GTA to the Wii. They've got Resident evil games, Rpgs, fighting games, FPS and just about every other "adult" genre. Perhaps in the NES and SNES era Nintendo limited the games to "family friendly", but they are far from that now.

Dark Helmet · Dec 8, 2006, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by starman

I used to play tennis. Tennis raquets have anti-slip grips of some kind. You put the Wiimote plastic on a tennis raquet and see how well players do with it.

The Wiimote slips from peoples hands for these reasons. (it almost happened to me a few times in Tennis).

1) You don't squeeze it tight because it isn't comfortable to do so as it isn't round.
2) You don't squeeze it tight because you try to avoid pushing the buttons all over the remote
3) You don't squeeze it tight because people have the perception that it is a $250 game device with electronics not a wooden stick
4) The remote is very slippery
5) Your hands sweat when playing
6) You get caught up in the game and hitting that shot so you swing hard with points 1-5 in your mind and...

Dark Helmet · Dec 8, 2006, 01:24 PM

Oh oh:

Interlink Wants To Take Nintendo To Court Over Wii Remote - Kotaku

wallinbl · Dec 8, 2006, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

If they had really bad grips, you'd be justified in suing.

No, you wouldn't be. Just hold on to the damned thing. Quit suing people over every little thing. I'm not just saying this to defend Nintendo - at some point, this country will sue itself into a hole we can't get out of.

starman · Dec 8, 2006, 01:30 PM

How could Kotaku not know who Interlink is?

starman · Dec 8, 2006, 01:31 PM

My component cables just arrived. Whoo!

wallinbl · Dec 8, 2006, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by starman

I used to play tennis. Tennis raquets have anti-slip grips of some kind. You put the Wiimote plastic on a tennis raquet and see how well players do with it.

Ever hit with a wooden baseball bat? No grips. Ever swing an axe? No grips.

Dakar² · Dec 8, 2006, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

No, you wouldn't be. Just hold on to the damned thing. Quit suing people over every little thing. I'm not just saying this to defend Nintendo - at some point, this country will sue itself into a hole we can't get out of.

Alright hot shot, so why do tennis companies put rubber grips on the racquets?

starman · Dec 8, 2006, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Ever hit with a wooden baseball bat? No grips. Ever swing an axe? No grips.

Yes and yes. Neither are made of SLIPPERY PLASTIC. Also, people use GLOVES with BOTH.

Dakar² · Dec 8, 2006, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Ever hit with a wooden baseball bat? No grips.

It has a nub at the bottom to catch on your hand.

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Ever swing an axe? No grips.

Different type of swing.

Dakar² · Dec 8, 2006, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Yes and yes. Neither are made of SLIPPERY PLASTIC. Also, people use GLOVES with BOTH.

Now you beat me to it.

wallinbl · Dec 8, 2006, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Oh oh:

Interlink Wants To Take Nintendo To Court Over Wii Remote - Kotaku

The comments in that page seem pretty damning to Interlink, if there's any validity to them.

wallinbl · Dec 8, 2006, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Alright hot shot, so why do tennis companies put rubber grips on the racquets?

To avoid blisters, because if the object turns slightly in your hand due to impact with the ball, you will end up with blisters.

wallinbl · Dec 8, 2006, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Yes and yes. Neither are made of SLIPPERY PLASTIC. Also, people use GLOVES with BOTH.

The gloves are to avoid blisters. Are afraid of losing your grip on the shovel, or did you just put the gloves on for looks?

Dakar² · Dec 8, 2006, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

To avoid blisters, because if the object turns slightly in your hand due to impact with the ball, you will end up with blisters.

So they're definitely not there for grip issues?

wallinbl · Dec 8, 2006, 01:39 PM

Look, I think Nintendo should improve the quality of the strap, because it sucks. However, it's ridiculous for anyone to sue them because they can't hold on to something. I've been playing with the Wii for a few weeks, and I can't figure out how you could let go of the Wiimote any more than any other object you'd swing. It's really not all that slippery.

starman · Dec 8, 2006, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

The gloves are to avoid blisters. Are afraid of losing your grip on the shovel, or did you just put the gloves on for looks?

It can't be both?

Dakar² · Dec 8, 2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by starman

It can't be both?

No, same way Nintendo games can't have great gameplay and graphics.

Gamoe · Dec 8, 2006, 02:05 PM

Well, in all my Wii playing (...) I've yet to let it go and swing it at something.

I do think, however, that mother nature should be sued here, because those darned laws of physics are waaay too dangerous for us poor consumers.

Calimus · Dec 8, 2006, 02:49 PM

I wonder how many of these "accidents" involved alcohol. If you're going this crazy playing Wii, you shouldn't be allowed to use power tools, and be restricted to rounded scissors.

There was a video online of some guy putting 2 Wii remotes with longer strings attached to each of the straps, then spinning them around in the dark to make blue streaks like one of those fire dancers. If the straps didn't break then, there are either a small number of defective straps, or people are just being careless.

itai195 · Dec 8, 2006, 02:52 PM

I have a confession to make, I don't use the wrist strap (OMG!!!)

Chuckit · Dec 8, 2006, 02:55 PM

I use it just because the system is constantly reminding me to, but I've never had a situation where I uncontrollably let go of the Wiimote. Maybe I'm just relatively sedate.

Dark Helmet · Dec 8, 2006, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I use it just because the system is constantly reminding me to, but I've never had a situation where I uncontrollably let go of the Wiimote. Maybe I'm just relatively sedate.

Ironic considering your name is "ChuckIt".

zerostar · Dec 8, 2006, 03:40 PM

17 days

Judge_Fire · Dec 8, 2006, 03:53 PM

Woohoo, European launch today and we got ours

( Work-related, gotta play games, purely academic, of course. )

Damn good first impression. Never enjoyed hovering over menu items this much.

BlackGriffen · Dec 8, 2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by talisker

I wish people wouldn't spout vague nonsense without knowing what they're talking about.

I'm not sure whether that's directed at me or TETENAL. What I said may be obscure, but I tried to be precise. I also left out a good deal of the mathematical rigor, but am confident that what I said was right.

Now that I'm not halfway asleep, I can be more specific concerning the simple proposal. Given the level of precision needed (about a percent), the time scales involved, sample rate, etc, it should be straightforward to just integrate up the acceleration. Then wait for a "flat" signal to re-calibrate which way down is.

The only criticism I have for the device, honestly, is that it only has one accelerometer. This means that it can't detect rotations that are on an axis exactly through the accelerometer. Ideally, it would have three accelerometers in some kind of triangle formation so that no possible rotation can go unobserved. Again, though, I think the kind of accuracy they need to achieve is doable with one.

BlackGriffen

P.S. Read "Feynman's Tips on Physics" for an interesting discussion of inertial navigation, which is what this is really about. If they only needed to correct the calculations of their navigation systems over the time span of hours, it must surely be possible to get the kind of accuracy needed in a console by now.

RAILhead · Dec 8, 2006, 04:17 PM

I GOT ONE!

w00t!!1!

You can read the short story on my site (http://www.railheaddesign.com), but the main thing is that I snagge done. Now I just have to wait for my wife to get home (I told her I didn't get one and I want to surprise her).

I also made my little Wii Checker program available if anyone wants to try and snag one from Amazon: Wii Checker.

icruise · Dec 8, 2006, 10:22 PM

I got my component cables today, but I can't get them to work. Does anyone know if there's some setting you have to enable to use them? When I connect them to my HDTV (via the same port that worked with my PS3, so I know it's fine) I get "not supported mode" on my TV. When I connected the Wii with composite cables again and tried to go into the settings to select a different TV type, it wouldn't let me choose EDTV/HDTV. This is annoying.

EDIT: OK... I tried the other component inputs on my TV (I have 3) and the last one worked. Why didn't the others? No idea. Haven't tried any games yet.

icruise · Dec 8, 2006, 11:36 PM

Well, I finally got everything hooked up. I have 5 things with component output and only 3 connectors on my TV, so I had to use a 3-port splitter box. But as I mentioned above, some devices would only work on certain connectors for some reason, so the whole process was like a logic puzzle.

I tried Zelda with the component cables and it does look a lot better. The jaggies are more prominent, but aside from that the colors are much brighter and more impressive, and the textures are clearer. Definitely worth getting if you have an HDTV.

Millennium · Dec 9, 2006, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Oh oh:

Interlink Wants To Take Nintendo To Court Over Wii Remote - Kotaku

The patent is invalid due to obviousness and prior art, and even if the courts hold it up the Wiimote is too different from their device to be covered. This is just a frivolous lawsuit by a little crap company looking for some money and publicity.

Rather like the one that sued Sony over the Dual Shock controller, actually.

icruise · Dec 9, 2006, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Rather like the one that sued Sony over the Dual Shock controller, actually.

Of course, they won that one...

jokell82 · Dec 9, 2006, 11:09 AM

Unless Nintendo can prove prior art (it was filed in September of '95), they're probably going to lose this lawsuit. My guess is they'll settle before it even sees a courtroom...

MindFad · Dec 9, 2006, 11:23 AM

So it's a lawsuit of drawings and not technologies and design?

starman · Dec 9, 2006, 01:03 PM

The NES games in Animal Crossing aren't working for me. I'm using a third party GC controller because the real ones are at my mother in law's, but I can't understand why I can't start a game with it.

Other than that, GC games work OK.

Hawkeye_a · Dec 9, 2006, 01:22 PM

Ur lucky. ive got an American GCN (region 1) and about 11 games. And i just got an Australian Wii... and freeloader just wont work. so i have to have 2 consoles in my living room. i would have loved to just have the Wii there and packed my GCN away.

Apart from that im loving the Wii.

RAILhead · Dec 9, 2006, 01:39 PM

Holy crap, Wii Boxing is tiring.

Millennium · Dec 9, 2006, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by starman

No, but if all MS allowed were rated E kiddie games, then you have a problem. I bought Viva Pinata last night. What a damn fun game, but that doesn't make the 360 'kiddie'.

Nintendo has never allowed only E-rated kiddie games on any of its systems. I am also deeply insulted by your insinuation that games lacking in 'mature' content cannot be enjoyed by older audiences.

starman · Dec 10, 2006, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Nintendo has never allowed only E-rated kiddie games on any of its systems. I am also deeply insulted by your insinuation that games lacking in 'mature' content cannot be enjoyed by older audiences.

When did I actually say that? Are you telling me I'm the only person who thinks N has a kiddie image? Come on....

I know it has RE and such, but that's not what people associate N with.

Dakar² · Dec 10, 2006, 03:46 AM

It's funny, but the stigma Nintendo earned from Mortal Kombat has never subsided.

(And I think it's their fault)

Hawkeye_a · Dec 10, 2006, 04:51 AM

The stigma Nintendo has with the whole Kiddie image thing, is sorta comparible to the stigma most corporation have had (and still do) towards Macs as "serious" business machines imo.

icruise · Dec 10, 2006, 05:16 AM

Still, if you compare the launch titles for the Wii with those of the 360 or PS3, there are a lot of games for younger players (mostly based on movie or TV licenses) and not so many ones aimed only at adults (in fact, I don't think they have any M rated games at all). Even their more serious games like Red Steel don't actually show any blood.

Dark Helmet · Dec 10, 2006, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

The stigma Nintendo has with the whole Kiddie image thing, is sorta comparible to the stigma most corporation have had (and still do) towards Macs as "serious" business machines imo.

No it isn't. Nintendo earned their image.

Heck even with red steel despite the fact that you are taking swords to people... there is no blood.

Hawkeye_a · Dec 10, 2006, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

No it isn't. Nintendo earned their image.

So did Apple, by opting for a GUI based OS as opposed to a command line.

No blood doesnt mean "kiddie". Just as no command-line doesnt mean non-business-like(or whatever).

Dakar² · Dec 10, 2006, 11:32 AM

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo secretly liked their 'E' image, but at this point, I think 3rd party developers of more mature games don't bother with Nintendo because they figure their target market doesn't own the console (It's basically a vicious little circle).

Gamoe · Dec 10, 2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

The stigma Nintendo has with the whole Kiddie image thing, is sorta comparible to the stigma most corporation have had (and still do) towards Macs as "serious" business machines imo.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

No it isn't. Nintendo earned their image.

Heck even with red steel despite the fact that you are taking swords to people... there is no blood.

I'll make a similar suggestion and say that it's similar to the image that Macs are only good as "school computers" and for graphic and movie design. Sure, Apple has always been big in those categories, and Apple has encouraged it, but as we all know, that doesn't mean that Macs aren't good "personal computers" or "home computers" as well.

It's the same with Nintendo. Sure their consoles cater to kids, but that doesn't mean that they don't have good titles out that teenagers and adults can enjoy. Also, saying that no blood is equal to not for adults is akin to saying that no gore, sex scenes or cursing in a movie is equal to a kiddie movie. That's a personal opinion, of course, but many people do not share it, and personally, I am quite capable of enjoying a game or a movie without blood and gore.

In fact, I applaud Nintendo for not allowing ultra-violent games on their consoles, because I think it shows integrity. But whether they do or not on the Wii, I don't think it's fair or accurate to call it a "kiddie console", as it is caters to a wider audience as well.