Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

Two of the new wallpapers

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/...45363f78_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1224/...5c80754d_o.jpg

And boy are they ugly. I mean...WTF??!

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 10:01 AM

Those CAN'T be new wallpapers. They are so lazily done.

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 10:02 AM

they better get iTunes scrollbars in that puppy soon. Aqua is dead now.

Simon · Sep 23, 2007, 10:04 AM

never mind

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 10:05 AM

The bug regarding the pill button, not the actual pill button.

PaperNotes · Sep 23, 2007, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

And boy are they ugly. I mean...WTF??!

The first is too bland. I'm using the second one right now and it looks fine.

PaperNotes · Sep 23, 2007, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

The bug regarding the pill button, not the actual pill button.

The bug was some graphic corruption around the pill.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

The first is too bland. I'm using the second one right now and it looks fine.

You're kidding me? It looks like a poorly done background from an 80's sci-fi!

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

they better get iTunes scrollbars in that puppy soon. Aqua is dead now.

I can see people still using Aqua instead of Graphite having issues with it fitting in, but who really uses frickin' Aqua instead of Graphite?

PaperNotes · Sep 23, 2007, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

You're kidding me? It looks like a poorly done background from an 80's sci-fi!

What's wrong with a little retro

The space themes work in context of Spaces, Time Machine and the 3D Dock which looks like the stern of a spaceship now

The next step would be to be able to push against the edge of the screen and move across a space scene. That would make Spaces seamless and potentially infinite.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 10:29 AM

Yes. The default background works fine in that context. Those two new add on ones look like they belong in a budget space fighter.

PaperNotes · Sep 23, 2007, 10:39 AM

Need. Lens. Flare.

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 10:45 AM

and some 3-D text, flying through space.

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I can see people still using Aqua instead of Graphite having issues with it fitting in, but who really uses frickin' Aqua instead of Graphite?

Me.

analogika · Sep 23, 2007, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I can see people still using Aqua instead of Graphite having issues with it fitting in, but who really uses frickin' Aqua instead of Graphite?

Me too.

analogika · Sep 23, 2007, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

You're kidding me? It looks like a poorly done background from an 80's sci-fi!

A photo of the Earth is a photo of the Earth - nothing to be said against that.

But what's with adding the fake goddamn starry-sky montage? That just annoys the **** out of me. It's tasteless, and WRONG.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 11:37 AM

No. There are better photos than that of the Earth from Space. Those look like the reject bin ones.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Me.

Originally Posted by analogika

Me too.

Well. You can't be helped then

CharlesS · 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I can see people still using Aqua instead of Graphite having issues with it fitting in, but who really uses frickin' Aqua instead of Graphite?

:raises hand:

Graphite mode looks so bland it makes my eyes scream for something with a little color (I'm red-green color-blind, so the effect is probably worse to my eyes than to yours).

Also, those scroll bars were always my favorite part of the Aqua skin - if they keep one part of Aqua, that should be it. The iTunes scroll bars are hideous.

PaperNotes · Sep 23, 2007, 01:15 PM

Count me as another graphite. It goes back to the days of neutral grey backgrounds for Photoshop.

PaperNotes · Sep 23, 2007, 03:35 PM

The new volume slider. I prefer the simplicity of the original.

MartiNZ · Sep 23, 2007, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I can see people still using Aqua instead of Graphite having issues with it fitting in, but who really uses frickin' Aqua instead of Graphite?

Here's another "I do too"

.

Honestly, graphite just makes things depressing, and quite frankly, who needs help with that?

TETENAL · Sep 23, 2007, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

The new volume slider. I prefer the simplicity of the original.

Personally I also prefer the simplicity of looking straight at album art. I don't like the angle in the new front row and iPods.

zerock · Sep 23, 2007, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Consistent with what? Scrollbars look fine now.

some ppl are just plain picky.

Horsepoo!!! · Sep 23, 2007, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

And this close to finish, we might put a final nail in the coffin for people who think Leopard would be any more resolution independent than Tiger was :/

That's so sad...and borderline unacceptable. Apple announced this as a feature and was pretty much forcing developers to prepare for resolution independence. Apple itself hasn't done so beyond upping the icon resolution limits to 512x512.

Kevin · Sep 23, 2007, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by .Neo

Nah. The original plan was to actually port Platinum (the Mac OS 8/9 theme) over to Mac OS X. But according to the lead the designer at the time Apple's design team could only port about 90% of the interface over properly, leaving around 10% out of focus. That's when they decided to go with something radical and new. This turned out to be Aqua, as seen in the 10.0 Cheetah release.

It was a pretty interesting article to read, can't find it back though.

They could have easily done it. I did.

Kevin · Sep 23, 2007, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

they better get iTunes scrollbars in that puppy soon. Aqua is dead now.

They are gonna wait till the final release to update teh GUI totally.

Originally Posted by PaperNotes

Count me as another graphite. It goes back to the days of neutral grey backgrounds for Photoshop.

Yup. And 10.5 is moving more towards a neutral colored GUI too. Finally.

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

That's so sad...and borderline unacceptable. Apple announced this as a feature and was pretty much forcing developers to prepare for resolution independence. Apple itself hasn't done so beyond upping the icon resolution limits to 512x512.

We really don't know what Apple has done or not done. We just know what they have let the public know.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 07:53 PM

Seeing as the scrollbars are one of the few UI elements that they actually HAVE updated for resolution independence, they are likely to stay that way for the final release.

And that Front Row volume bezel is just bizarre. It's blurry and has a banding gradient, and a reflection. *shudder*

Chuckit · Sep 23, 2007, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

And this close to finish, we might put a final nail in the coffin for people who think Leopard would be any more resolution independent than Tiger was :/

"Finish" is still months away, considering they said long ago that resolution independence wasn't coming until 2008 (in order to give all the third-party developers time to transition, supposedly). It makes sense that Apple would spend its time now on things that are due in 2007.

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

And that Front Row volume bezel is just bizarre. It's blurry and has a banding gradient, and a reflection. *shudder*

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking so.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 08:12 PM

How are third parties supposed to "transition" if Apple isn't leading the way? The same mechanics have been present since the Tiger betas, and they could have made the transition already. Point is Apple is not doing anything either, so why should they care? We can only hope for 10.6. *sigh*

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking so.

But at least we have one now

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

That's so sad...and borderline unacceptable. Apple announced this as a feature and was pretty much forcing developers to prepare for resolution independence. Apple itself hasn't done so beyond upping the icon resolution limits to 512x512.

To be fair, there's only 2 things wrong with the resolution independence picture: the back/forward buttons are pixelly, and the window gradient doesn't extend down far enough. I think those things could be a relatively easy fix.

lpkmckenna · Sep 23, 2007, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I can see people still using Aqua instead of Graphite having issues with it fitting in, but who really uses frickin' Aqua instead of Graphite?

I do. The all-gray scrollbars and window controls are too bland.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

To be fair, there's only 2 things wrong with the resolution independence picture: the back/forward buttons are pixelly, and the window gradient doesn't extend down far enough. I think those things could be a relatively easy fix.

I guess you didn't notice the broken window either

Only two of those buttons are resolution independent by the way.

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 08:19 PM

The broken window falls under the "gradient doesn't extend far enough" issue.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

The broken window falls under the "gradient doesn't extend far enough" issue.

Does that cover for the fact that the bottom bar is separated from the window too?

Sure, things like that might be "easy fixes". But the thing is, Apple isn't doing much in the way of leading by example if they want resolution independence to work. They have only updated basic elements like scrollbars, buttons and text-fields. Bizarrely even brand new elements like Safari's new clip-to-dashboard button is a tiny bitmap.

.Neo · Sep 23, 2007, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

They could have easily done it. I did.

For the full 100%? I'd like to see that.

CharlesS · Sep 23, 2007, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

How are third parties supposed to "transition" if Apple isn't leading the way? The same mechanics have been present since the Tiger betas, and they could have made the transition already. Point is Apple is not doing anything either, so why should they care? We can only hope for 10.6. *sigh*

One would think that whether or not Apple's own apps are resolution independent would have little bearing on whether third-parties would be able to build resolution independence into their own apps, as long as the mechanisms work correctly. And they ought to - after all, they were already there since Tiger (although I'll admit that I haven't played with them much. And if I had, I wouldn't be able to post about it here due to NDA. Mixed blessing, I guess).

Chuckit · Sep 23, 2007, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

How are third parties supposed to "transition" if Apple isn't leading the way?

That's a funny question. I suppose the answer is, "The same way they do anything else." I mean, do they need Apple to tie their shoes for them too? All Apple said was to be ready by (I think it was the beginning of) 2008. As long as Apple is ready by then, Apple has done exactly what it told other people to do. Seriously, would you rather they kill a feature from 10.5.0 in order to work on something that will still not be included until several months later?

Horsepoo!!! · Sep 23, 2007, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

The broken window falls under the "gradient doesn't extend far enough" issue.

Yeah, well it didn't make the 'Known Issues' so it's not getting fixed on release...which is disappointing.

0157988944 · Sep 23, 2007, 09:16 PM

Good point...

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

That's a funny question. I suppose the answer is, "The same way they do anything else." I mean, do they need Apple to tie their shoes for them too? All Apple said was to be ready by (I think it was the beginning of) 2008. As long as Apple is ready by then, Apple has done exactly what it told other people to do. Seriously, would you rather they kill a feature from 10.5.0 in order to work on something that will still not be included until several months later?

Erm. Let me rephrase that: If the system applications like Finder and the rest aren't resolution independent, why would a user ever turn it on? Or in fact, since the option is not even there, why should developers bother?

It really is a chicken and egg situation, and Apple needs to get more on the ball here. Resolution independent is not really further ahead than it was in Tiger, even though it was touted as such.

MindFad · Sep 23, 2007, 10:54 PM

Yikes, you're not kiddin' about those Desktop pictures.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1224/...5c80754d_o.jpg

That's total cheese right there. Yeah, a huge hurricane. That's what I want on my desktop—cheesy "stars" and a doomsday storm. Maybe they're just havin' some fun with us?

Chuckit · Sep 23, 2007, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Erm. Let me rephrase that: If the system applications like Finder and the rest aren't resolution independent, why would a user ever turn it on?

That's a question I feel confident we will never have to answer. You seem to be operating under the assumption that resolution independence will either be in Leopard on release or else it will be in 10.6. Apple has always said it would be enabled in Leopard in 2008. They haven't missed any deadlines.

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Or in fact, since the option is not even there, why should developers bother?

Because the option will be there, and their apps will look like crap if they don't bother. Honestly, if other developers don't do it until the last minute, that's fine too — as long as support is there when resolution independence is switched on, nobody will know or care when the support was added.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 23, 2007, 11:10 PM

You honestly think something as major as resolution independence will be added as a user option in a 10.5.x update?

Chuckit · Sep 23, 2007, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

You honestly think something as major as resolution independence will be added as a user option in a 10.5.x update?

Considering that's what Apple has said all along, I see no reason not to think so.

- - e r i k - - · Sep 24, 2007, 12:11 AM

Show me where Apple has always said so (in writing). Here's the information on resolution independence from Apple's Developer Site:

Resolution Independence
The old assumption that displays are 72dpi has been rendered obsolete by advances in display technology. Macs now ship with displays that sport native resolutions of 100dpi or better. Furthermore, the number of pixels per inch will continue to increase dramatically over the next few years. This will make displays crisper and smoother, but it also means that interfaces that are pixel-based will shrink to the point of being unusable. The solution is to remove the 72dpi assumption that has been the norm. In Leopard, the system, including the Carbon and Cocoa frameworks, will be able to draw user interface elements using a scale factor. This will let the user interface maintain the same physical size while gaining resolution and crispness from high dpi displays.

The introduction of resolution independence may mean that there is work that you’ll need to do in order to make your application look as good as possible. For modern Cocoa and Carbon applications, most of the work will center around raster-based resources. For older applications that use QuickDraw, more work will be required to replace QuickDraw-based calls with Quartz ones.

Surely you are not basing this on the comments made at WWDC 06?

Chuckit · Sep 24, 2007, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Surely you are not basing this on the comments made at WWDC 06?

I am. Apple set the timeline in 2006 and has not changed it as far as I am aware. Surely you are not basing your assumption on nothing at all?

- - e r i k - - · Sep 24, 2007, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I am. Apple set the timeline in 2006 and has not changed it as far as I am aware. Surely you are not basing this on no comments at all?

I just posted what I am basing it on. Resolution Independence was promised with Leopard. It's not happening. Not now, and certainly not in a 10.5.x update.