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voodoo
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Jun 15, 2008, 01:18 AM
 
Rooting for the Lakers all the way here, but things do look a bit dark at the moment. They'll need to win three straight games and I don't really see that happening. I'll be watching nevertheless
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 15, 2008, 01:52 PM
 
Well, for those of you watching the ref matter closely, Dick Bavetta (a suspected 'league office man'), has been assigned to tonight's crucial (for L.A.) game. Bavetta has a history of being a homer (In much the same way Joey Crawford is known to favor the visiting team), so keep an eye out tonight for a crazy free throw disparity in LAs favor, as well as an untold number of questionable calls.

If you believe its rigged.
     
voodoo
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Jun 15, 2008, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
Well, for those of you watching the ref matter closely, Dick Bavetta (a suspected 'league office man'), has been assigned to tonight's crucial (for L.A.) game. Bavetta has a history of being a homer (In much the same way Joey Crawford is known to favor the visiting team), so keep an eye out tonight for a crazy free throw disparity in LAs favor, as well as an untold number of questionable calls.

If you believe its rigged.
I'll be sure to keep an eye out for that, though from what I have seen so far Boston is simply playing better basketball than the Lakers and are set to win this, with or without referee bias.
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 15, 2008, 06:21 PM
 
I agree voodoo, I agree.
     
Jawbone54  (op)
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Jun 15, 2008, 08:35 PM
 
I'd kind of like a Game 6 win in Boston so I could watch the fans go nuts, but whatever.
     
jonasmac
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Jun 15, 2008, 09:10 PM
 
I want to watch, but I don't want to watch....GO LAKERS! Make history this week, boys!
     
jonasmac
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Jun 15, 2008, 09:37 PM
 
Lakeshow up by 17 again, end of the first. Don't tease me!
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 15, 2008, 09:43 PM
 
That lead is twice as entertaining after last game.
     
jonasmac
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Jun 15, 2008, 09:55 PM
 
Can't stand Pierce, but he looks MVP-ish.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 15, 2008, 09:57 PM
 
Ha, I was just coming in here to comment that Pierce just used this quarter to ensure himself the Finals MVP.

And how can you not like Paul Pierce?
     
jonasmac
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:13 PM
 
Wow. Lakers doing everything in their power to lose this game. Lakers may be a "weaker" finesse team, but the refs are letting the Celtics get away with alot of pushing and jersey holding.

Not blaming the refs, though. It's actually Phil's fault the lead is down to 3. Mihm and Walton in at the same time? Those guys are a foul factory, man.
     
jonasmac
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
Ha, I was just coming in here to comment that Pierce just used this quarter to ensure himself the Finals MVP.

And how can you not like Paul Pierce?
Hate his guts - whenever he's playing the Lakers.

I was in Boston for Cavs/Celts game 7 and the big duel with LeBron. I cheered for him then. Against the Lakers? I want him to LOSE BIG.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:18 PM
 
Well that's different. "Can't stand" read like you had something personal against the guy.
     
::maroma::
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Jun 15, 2008, 10:22 PM
 
Another huge lead blown by the Lakers. That's gotta sting.

Is it just me or do the Lakers tend to bitch to the refs an awful lot? Seems like if they feel they were fouled (even if they weren't), they have to get in the refs faces. Kobe is the biggest offender of this. He's very animated when things aren't going his way. Am I seeing something that isn't there, or do others see this as well?
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 15, 2008, 11:03 PM
 
It's usually a losing team kind of thing, but yeah, most superstars today act like they play perfectly.
(Every time I see Tim Duncan's incredulous face I want show him the foul on a 50" plasma, then smash it over his head)
     
jonasmac
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Jun 16, 2008, 12:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
Another huge lead blown by the Lakers. That's gotta sting.

Is it just me or do the Lakers tend to bitch to the refs an awful lot? Seems like if they feel they were fouled (even if they weren't), they have to get in the refs faces. Kobe is the biggest offender of this. He's very animated when things aren't going his way. Am I seeing something that isn't there, or do others see this as well?
You ever watch Paul Pierce? He's just as bad. He sells getting fouled really well.

Anyway, the way the refs have been officiating the entire playoffs, I'd complain too, since they have been missing calls A LOT. It's all good though, because Kobe had that gimme on Pierce near the end.

Go Lakers!
     
quesera
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Jun 16, 2008, 01:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
I
(Every time I see Tim Duncan's incredulous face I want show him the foul on a 50" plasma, then smash it over his head)
Maybe you should talk to a professional about this. Such anger against such an unwarranted target. Of course, I feel the same way about Kobe, Shaq, Phil, every tattooed thug in the NBA who prefers the highlight reel to consistent and dedicated play.

I'll take Tim Duncan's funny face and four rings over all the rings on Kobe, Shaq, Phil, and MJ for that matter.

A little pouting and bad acting don't even compare to the LA-styled psychodrama, pimped out ghetto-cred posturing, pseudo-Zen BS, oh and let's not forget the mugshots and the money talks justice walks legal team that keeps classless acts on the court.

No offense, but Tim Duncan is too good, on and off the court, to warrant that kind of response.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 01:43 AM
 
Spoken like a true homer.
     
quesera
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Jun 16, 2008, 02:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
Spoken like a true homer.
Is that the best response you've got?

The long history of professional sports (and I admit to being a casual fan in most sports) is really about hero worship. Admiration to not only skills, but dedication, perseverance, and character. And maybe some of it is media creation, where warts and all are sometimes swept under the rug to create a memorable storyline. Still, the difference between some sports figures and others is stark. Championships, stats, and all other things being equal, behavior counts.

I love my hometown. And my home team.
If I were from the Bay Area, Boston, Greenbay, or Chicago, I think I'd still my hometown and home team.

If I were from LA or Dallas, likely not.

It is about how you handle success and failure, how you achieve it, and how you attain (or buy) it.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 08:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by quesera View Post
Is that the best response you've got?
Considering it appears exceedingly accurate, yes.
     
angelmb
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Jun 16, 2008, 08:33 AM
 
I am not taking sides here -besides needless to say supporting no matter what the Celtics-, but I think a good parallelism would be actors & actress. I am so out of your culture to know what's wrong with e.g. Dallas but I highly suspect what's the issue with LA, namely with the aforementioned guys, I had no issue at all with Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott… even Kurt Rambis!! you name them… but I don't like how Kobe behaves, and how Shaq used to behave, showing little or not respect at all towards folks like Michael Jordan, Michael Robinson, Barkley… guys that any fan wouldn't be grateful enough due to all the good work they have done for this sport… but it is only my humbled and uninformed opinion.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 08:36 AM
 
He said he'd take Duncan over MJ. That says it all.
     
::maroma::
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Jun 16, 2008, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by jonasmac View Post
You ever watch Paul Pierce? He's just as bad. He sells getting fouled really well.

Anyway, the way the refs have been officiating the entire playoffs, I'd complain too, since they have been missing calls A LOT. It's all good though, because Kobe had that gimme on Pierce near the end.

Go Lakers!
Yeah I do watch Pierce, and he is nowhere near as bad at complaining as Kobe. He may do some bad acting to sell a foul but that is completely different than complaining to the refs every time you get a foul called against you or you think you're fouled but don't get the call.

But I suppose that can be considered a strategy, since it will eventually sway the refs in some way (usually).
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 11:45 AM
 
Yeah, there's a little bit of gamesmanship involved in selling fouls, though I can't say I'm a big fan (particularly when it's the shooter who initiates the contact).

Gasol was guilty of the same thing on one of the fouls that sent Garnett to the bench. Which reminds me, I always forget that the hand is considered part of the ball. That might be the most inconsistent aspect of the already subjective calls made.
     
exca1ibur
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Jun 16, 2008, 11:50 AM
 
Next year the league will be fining players for this. So they can all kiss this strategy goodbye.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 11:52 AM
 
Good thing there's a strong Euro to soften the blow to some of the future fined.

Edit: This is aimed more at defensive flopping then offensive exaggerations, IIRC.
     
::maroma::
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Jun 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
 
They're going to be fining players for flopping? That sounds like a recipe for extremely inconsistent calls and controversy. That will be interesting to watch.

(So when is David Stern going to retire?)
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 12:14 PM
 
It's not a bad idea considering it means the league office will get to watch tape to make these judgments. If it had been refs in game, it'd have been a nightmare.
     
::maroma::
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Jun 16, 2008, 12:43 PM
 
Ah I see, that makes a big difference. I assumed the calls would be made on the court.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 12:46 PM
 
Wow, you are so dumb.
just kidding. lulz
     
::maroma::
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Jun 16, 2008, 01:35 PM
 
Its true!

I haven't been paying attention to the NBA for quite some time. I was disenchanted during the height of the Shaq era (or more accurately, my attention was going down after MJ left for good - thank you LeBron for getting me back into NBA fandom). But yes, that was a silly assumption. But looking at some of Stern's recent decisions, I wouldn't have been surprised if that was the case.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
Its true!
Not at all.

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
I haven't been paying attention to the NBA for quite some time.
Ah yes, you're part of that group known as Everybody.
     
::maroma::
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Jun 16, 2008, 03:58 PM
 
I knew it felt crowded in there. I'm feeling good that I've gotten back into the NBA a bit. I'm hoping this whole referee controversy doesn't get out of hand. I need the NBA to have a lot of integrity in order to be an active fan. We shall see.
     
jonasmac
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Jun 16, 2008, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
I am not taking sides here -besides needless to say supporting no matter what the Celtics-, but I think a good parallelism would be actors & actress. I am so out of your culture to know what's wrong with e.g. Dallas but I highly suspect what's the issue with LA, namely with the aforementioned guys, I had no issue at all with Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott… even Kurt Rambis!! you name them… but I don't like how Kobe behaves, and how Shaq used to behave, showing little or not respect at all towards folks like Michael Jordan, Michael Robinson, Barkley… guys that any fan wouldn't be grateful enough due to all the good work they have done for this sport… but it is only my humbled and uninformed opinion.
I don't remember Kobe or Shaq being disrespectful to any of the greats. Especially Kobe. He's a student of the game and a big fan of Jordan.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 04:18 PM
 
I seem to remember a clip from an All-Star game where Malone gave Kobe crap for ballhogging. '97, if memory serves.

Otherwise, I seem to remember Shaq all but fellating The Dream on a number of occasions.
     
boy8cookie
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Jun 16, 2008, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
I seem to remember a clip from an All-Star game where Malone gave Kobe crap for ballhogging. '97, if memory serves.
Kobe has only been on the All-Star team every year since '98, in '97 he was on the All-Rookie Second Team, and participated in the slam dunk contest.

I don't know why people hate on Kobe, he's good and he knows it. He wants his team to be good, and when they suck, he lets em know about it.
     
voodoo
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Jun 16, 2008, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
I am not taking sides here -besides needless to say supporting no matter what the Celtics-, but I think a good parallelism would be actors & actress. I am so out of your culture to know what's wrong with e.g. Dallas but I highly suspect what's the issue with LA, namely with the aforementioned guys, I had no issue at all with Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott… even Kurt Rambis!! you name them… but I don't like how Kobe behaves, and how Shaq used to behave, showing little or not respect at all towards folks like Michael Jordan, Michael Robinson, Barkley… guys that any fan wouldn't be grateful enough due to all the good work they have done for this sport… but it is only my humbled and uninformed opinion.
I've been a Lakers fan since the 1980s when Magic Johnson was a megastar and intrestingly enough the Celtics were one of the main rivals to the Lakers. The finals now are like a wonderful trip back to the 80s!!
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 16, 2008, 11:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Kobe has only been on the All-Star team every year since '98, in '97 he was on the All-Rookie Second Team, and participated in the slam dunk contest.
Then it was '98 game (The last year Malone was relevant). I seem to remember he was trying to challenge Jordan (Hence the ballhogging).

Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
I don't know why people hate on Kobe, he's good and he knows it. He wants his team to be good, and when they suck, he lets em know about it.
If you want to know about why people hate Kobe, listen to that Bill Simmons podcast i referred to last page.

The short version: Jordan never publicly threw his team mates under the bus.
     
jonasmac
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Jun 17, 2008, 12:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
Then it was '98 game (The last year Malone was relevant). I seem to remember he was trying to challenge Jordan (Hence the ballhogging).
He wasn't ballhogging (that time).

He was actually waving off a screen from Malone because he wanted to go one on one, and Malone got super offended. I forget if he was up against Jordan or not. There was one ASG where Kobe and Jordan had a mini-duel. Not sure if it was that one.
     
jonasmac
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Jun 17, 2008, 12:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
I've been a Lakers fan since the 1980s when Magic Johnson was a megastar and intrestingly enough the Celtics were one of the main rivals to the Lakers. The finals now are like a wonderful trip back to the 80s!!
Me too. Two of these for you!
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 17, 2008, 12:30 AM
 
So, the conclusion here is memory does not serve.
     
angelmb
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Jun 17, 2008, 02:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo View Post
The finals now are like a wonderful trip back to the 80s!!
Do all you remember the Converse Weapon?, now those were megacool (they came in colours!!) shoes and not the "crappy-looking-pseudo future-is-coming-power-to-the-plastic" shoes most brands use to sell today…

later… I found them on converse site, wow, a pity the low "Pro Team Weapon" (SKU#102787) are available only on black & white, where are the Phoenix orange?, Sixers red/blue, Lakers yellow/purple, Boston Celtics green??, d'oh!!
     
voodoo
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Jun 17, 2008, 09:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
Do all you remember the Converse Weapon?, now those were megacool (they came in colours!!) shoes and not the "crappy-looking-pseudo future-is-coming-power-to-the-plastic" shoes most brands use to sell today…

later… I found them on converse site, wow, a pity the low "Pro Team Weapon" (SKU#102787) are available only on black & white, where are the Phoenix orange?, Sixers red/blue, Lakers yellow/purple, Boston Celtics green??, d'oh!!
YouTube - Converse "Weapon" Shoe Commercial

Ohh cool!! I never had those, but would have liked to.
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 17, 2008, 11:12 AM
 
Look out, we've got Joey Crawford officiating tonight. Good omen for the Lakers?
     
angelmb
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Jun 17, 2008, 12:18 PM
 
Well, the Garden can put up resistance to that guy… what really worries me is fatigue (mostly KG) and having 3 of the 5 starters with physical issues. Anyway, June 17 seems like the day to win the 17th championship…
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 17, 2008, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
Well, the Garden can put up resistance to that guy…
I'm not sure what you mean. Crawford is legendary because he not only is not susceptible to Home Court bias, he revels in riling up the home crowd by showing a visiting bias.

Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
what really worries me is fatigue (mostly KG) and having 3 of the 5 starters with physical issues. Anyway, June 17 seems like the day to win the 17th championship…
Assuming KG has been able to sleep this series, I'm more concerned that Pierce's superman-like Game 5 may have worn on his bad knee a little too hard> Not to mention Ray Ray's hospitalized child may distract him.

In essence, the variables are aligning to create the perfect storm for the Lakers to force a Game 7. I'll be watching intently.
     
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Jun 17, 2008, 12:48 PM
 
You can bet the Boston crowd will be insane tonight. I think they'll feed off of the referee controversy. But for the reasons you just stated, I'm still wary that the Celtics can pull it off tonight.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 17, 2008, 12:52 PM
 
Good point. Boston fans smell blood, and they've got to be a little hungry since they finished 18-1.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Jun 17, 2008, 01:14 PM
 
Yet another Simmons column.
A fun one, as he hands out his creative awards. Great points on KG, Pierce, and Kobe, too.

Oh, remember how I thought before the series that Phil would out coach the hell out of Doc Rivers. Simmons has noticed how that hasn't come to pass either.
(Speaking of the Zen Master, for someone who's allegedly the best coach of his generation, how could he not figure out how to stop the high screen with Pierce and KG in Game 5, and why can't he figure out a way to get Kobe going in this series? Throw in the disrespectful way Kobe treats him during games -- Damon's crew was shocked by that running subplot, by the way -- and is anyone else starting to wonder if Jackson coaches the Lakers just because they pay him a ton of money and he's dating the owner's daughter and that's it? I mean, he can't LIKE most of these guys, right? He sure doesn't seem like he's enjoying these games, that's for sure. Do you think he goes home after every Lakers game, pours himself a glass of wine, lights up a Cuban, watches one of the old Bulls games from the '90s and just fights back tears for an hour or so thinking about how much he hates coaching Kobe? You wouldn't rule it out, right?)


Edit: Also, sek is a complete jerk. A Boston sports fan and he hasn't said a word about the impending Celtics championship. Must really hate B-Ball.
     
::maroma::
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Jun 17, 2008, 02:54 PM
 
Yeah I was wondering where sek has been.

I've always marveled at how Jackson coaches. He seems to just sit there and watch the game as a spectator. Where other coaches are constantly on their feet, pacing the sidelines, shouting out plays and instructions, Jackson just kicks back and observes. I'm not knocking his style, it obviously works, but its something that always makes me smile. The dude indeed seems like a zen master in that regard. I wonder if its old age, knowledge of the game, or both.

And regarding how Kobe treats Jackson, I think its a mutual understanding between the two. I think Jackson realizes that he has to let Kobe make judgement calls and such on the court, and when on the bench he can give his opinion without any reservations. I think thats healthy. For some reason, I feel thats the relationship he had with Jordan, only Jordan wasn't as vocal as Kobe. Of course, this observation of mine is purely based on the very little I see watching on TV.
     
 
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