Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

FulcrumPilot · Dec 29, 2001, 02:58 PM

Historically I have read that atheists (heretics, infidels, freethinkers etc) were persecuted by the believers, I know that this continues today in many parts of the world. Ironically, I also realize that freedom of expression as in practicing religion is also under the gun in some parts of the world, although this suppression is purely based on organization of power. But I think many athiest/agnostics are very comfortable in dealing with realities and are most level headed at times of crisis. And for people who think atheists are odd balls maybe you guys should read this classic on atheism
I am an agnostic most times and havent thought about the whole thing enough to declare myself as a full fledged atheist.

scaught · Dec 29, 2001, 03:42 PM

theyre being awfully vocal about something they dont believe in. i mean, you dont see tons of websites about "santa claus doesnt exist! here is a lengthly essay about it! "

S2kAgGiE04 · Dec 29, 2001, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by scaught:
theyre being awfully vocal about something they dont believe in. i mean, you dont see tons of websites about "santa claus doesnt exist! here is a lengthly essay about it! "

thats cause they strive for attention for somthing they dont believe in...

MikeM32 · Dec 29, 2001, 06:15 PM

thats cause they strive for attention for somthing they dont believe in...

That's interresting I always felt that theists strived for attention and support moreso than atheists or agnostics.

As an agnostic myself I really don't strive for attention at all for my beliefs (or lack thereof). It seems to me that it's always been harder to convince people that the sky is "red" when it's "blue" to everyone else.

Mike

sek929 · Dec 29, 2001, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by S2kAgGiE04:


thats cause they strive for attention for somthing they dont believe in...

I consider myself an Atheist and I could care less about "striving for attention." Thats something left best for Christians and other self-righteous retards.....

seanyepez · Dec 29, 2001, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by sek929:


I consider myself an Atheist and I could care less about "striving for attention." Thats something left best for Christians and other self-righteous retards.....

As a Christian, I don't make it a point to spread my beliefs. However, I do stand up for them when they are being directly attacked.

Each to his own. We have a right to our own beliefs, but we don't have a right to attack others'.

sek929 · Dec 30, 2001, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by seanyepez:


As a Christian, I don't make it a point to spread my beliefs. However, I do stand up for them when they are being directly attacked.

Each to his own. We have a right to our own beliefs, but we don't have a right to attack others'.

And therefore I have no problem with you, I just have a severe problem with people who impose their beliefs on others. I was not reffering to all Cristians (although it might have seemed so), just those "elite" few.

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: sek929 ]

phantomdragonz · Dec 30, 2001, 03:34 AM

I have learned one thing, i cant type when it's late. what i wnated to say was said by the person below my message and above me.

i will never type a paper late at night again.

it has happned to me and justadam =)

P.D.

P.S. stargate SG1 is a cool show lol

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: phantomdragonz ]

simonjames · Dec 30, 2001, 04:09 AM

Most atheists are more than happy to live an let live - let people make their own decisions - which is exactly how we want to be treated ourselves (yes, I am an atheist).

However there are times when atheists sometimes (myself included) stand on a soap box and spout the virtues of their ideals. One reason for doing so is that they are sick to death of the bombardment of some religious zealots who believe it is their duty to ram their religious beliefs down the throats of others until they're converted. I suppose you could say the atheists are standing up for themselves and it is necessary as they are not part of an organised group and therefore do not have the group therapy & back-patting sessions that church goers enjoy.

Personally (in these fora) I've had religious bigots tell me that I am an idiot and that I truely do not know what I believe (in regards to religious beliefs) and that I will eventually convert. At the age of 37 I take offence that someone who doesn't know me thinks I will change my mind as I get closer to the grave - as if.

my $0.02AUD

justadam · Dec 30, 2001, 04:10 AM

Oh never mind.

simonjames de-fused most of my thoughts.

(long post deleted)

[ 12-30-2001: Message edited by: justadam ]

simonjames · Dec 30, 2001, 04:15 AM

Sorry - atheists say the sky is blue as it is a fact. We don't have faith in religion or in religious texts. Faith is not fact.

Thats not to say atheist do not have faith or beliefs. I have faith in my friends - I truely believe that if you spread good around people will in turn be good to others and therefore good eventually comes back to you - some would call that karma - I call it life. I believe in many things, just not religion and not in a divine being.

simonjames · Dec 30, 2001, 04:21 AM

justadam - you shouldn't delete your posts/thoughts. This is a healthy debate and your ideas are valued. Keep posting and a HNY to you.

OldManMac · Dec 30, 2001, 07:57 PM

Unfortunately, atheists will always be put down, for the simple reason that they are different. Throughout human history, any one who is different from society's "norms" is ostracized by the majority. It's not right, but it's the way it is! That doesn't mean that atheists (or any one else who is different) should just lie down and accept this.

I consider myself an agnostic, as I don't know with 100% certainty that there is no divine being, etc., that controls the strings. I am reasonably certain that this being doesn't exist, but I can't prove it, so I have to leave room for that possibility. If I find out, when I die, that I was wrong, it will be too late to do anything about it anyway, won't it?

garrettnelson · Dec 30, 2001, 08:12 PM

Sadly, anti-atheism (and to some extent, anti-non-Christianity) is still alive, well, and kicking in my corner of the United States�and I don't live anywhere near the Bible Belt. At school, I nearly skirted detention simply for leaving out the "under god" clause in the Pledge of Allegiance every morning; not because I'm trying to be snobby about it, not because I'm trying to convert people (I'm not), but because it appeared to the higher-ups to be "disrespectful." Unfortuately, everybody here thinks that everybody else should believe in a "God" (something unique, I think, to the Big Three religions) and that they should pray and all that other good stuff. Even worse, the religious dogma here has been doubly worse since Sept. 11, where it's almost expected that we should all be praying for God's mercy and to get through this all (and I see it from *cough* government officials besides).

� Side Note: I was in Boy Scouts for a month. I found that this "American Institution" couldn't ever accept me because for nearly all of the badges and things you needed to go to church, synagogue, or whatnot, and pray regularly ... these guys get funding from our federal government

phantomdragonz · Dec 30, 2001, 11:38 PM

you say the pledge? wow I havent done that since 3rd grade. im in 10th now so it's been awile.

P.D.

3gg3 · Dec 31, 2001, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by seanyepez:


As a Christian, I don't make it a point to spread my beliefs.

Does not compute, as I've been led to understand "Christianity". Or maybe I'm just being pedantic about your semantics there. While I consider my values to be be mostly Christian, I don't call myself a Christian because I'm not bullish about spreading the word. In fact, I think the Christian proselytizers are the ones that cause Christianity to be dissed. But I don't suppose that's unique to Christianity.

>>Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Lerkfish · Dec 31, 2001, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by 3gg3:


Does not compute, as I've been led to understand "Christianity". Or maybe I'm just being pedantic about your semantics there. While I consider my values to be be mostly Christian, I don't call myself a Christian because I'm not bullish about spreading the word. In fact, I think the Christian proselytizers are the ones that cause Christianity to be dissed. But I don't suppose that's unique to Christianity.

>>Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

I think whether someone is or feels persecuted for their beliefs or non-beliefs is highly individual and somewhat random, depending on how militant in either direction is the people they run into.

I don't believe I have dissed anyone for being atheist online, but I have been witness to that happening to atheists. I have also been ridiculed as an idiot by people that are devout (?) atheists. I have also been treated fairly and rationally by atheists even in heated religious discusions. Largely, it depends on the individual and their ability to tolerate the beliefs or non-beliefs of other people.

The danger comes from sweeping with too wide a brush and taking individual examples and applying them to the whole.

From my perspective, on computer forums and science fiction forums it seems to me to be a weighted percentage of atheists and agnostics, to the point where I try to tread carefully into religious discussions because I usually am the minority for have a faith. Additionally, on both sides I see people that espouse their own view as their own view and the other side misinterpreting that as prosletyzing, when it really isnt.

I feel tolerance should be the standard, and the choice of worship or non-worship should just be the individual flavor that varies from person to person.