[Hawkeye_a]

As Mac users, does anyone use a DAC for their audio needs? They seem to be soundcard+amp type devices.

I've just discovered these things and was wondering if they offer any benefit(for their price) to the audio processing done in a Mac?

If you do use one, what type/model is it?

Cheers

[Mike Wuerthele]

https://www.macnn.com/reviews/cambri...cmagic-xs.html

I use it (with Soundflower) to send the same audio to different sets of speakers, or different audio streams to the different sets.

[Hawkeye_a]

Cheers.

So if you have the speakers/headphones which would benefit, its a good investment, otherwise the stock headphone ports on a mac would suffice?

Been looking at Audioengine's D1, which offers some versatility with ports, which would allow me to use it with my Mac or TV if I wanted to, and it's a little cheaper. Down side, its bigger.

audioengine D1 24-bit DAC

Found this for anyone who wants mroe info about DACs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usLMRMkVgsI

Cheers

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Dollar for dollar, probably the best external DAC out there:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/grace-d...p-m9xx-dac-amp

Great feature set, top-shelf resolution, compact design, exceptional headphone amp, and probably the best user interface out there.

Honorable mention goes to the Chord Mojo, though it's rather sparse on features. If you want to cheap out, but still want good resolution and portability, try the FiiO E18. It's being phased out and they're now selling way below retail.

[Hawkeye_a]

Cheers. Will check them out, the name FiiO keeps appearing.

Been doing some reading about audio quality and formats in general, and i realized that vinyl>tape>CD>compressed>streaming.... kinda sad to notice the constant compromise of quality for convenience and cost. For some reason I thought CDs were the ultimate "lossless" format, only to find out that 24-bit music is better. Unfortunately analog formats aren't as durable. I think my happy compromise would be re-ripping all my CDs to ALAC, with storage being so cheap these days.

So i'm running a 2008 MB AL (first unibody) . Has the audio processing (DACs) in Macs changed a lot since then? I've noticed people saying that they get better audio quality with entry level DACs on new (2011 or newer) Macs.

Cheers

[subego]

The following is an opinion...

The DAC isn't really the quality bottleneck at this stage, it's the headphone amp, and the lack of room to properly isolate the amp circuits from everything else inside the lappy.

Your biggest jump in quality will be pretty much anything, as long as it's outside the lappy. Then the biggest changes in quality will be what amp you get. If you have a really nice amp, then the DAC is going to start playing a small role in overall sound quality.

[Spheric Harlot]

Listen to subego. The man knoweth.

[subego]

Listen to Spheric. The man knoweth more than me.

[BadKosh]

Then there's these........

Needle Doctor - Digital Analog Converters - 1-800-229-0644

[subego]

My general rule-of-thumb is to roughly price balance your speakers and amp.

A $50 amp deserves a $50 pair of speakers or headphones.

Yeah, the $50 amp will sound better out of $300 speakers, but you'd do better with a $100 amp and a $250 pair of speakers instead.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Don't waste your $ on anti-jitter/jutter crap, even with nosebleed-level gear you can't tell a difference. I forgot another great DAC, the Audioquest Dragonfly ($100 or less). It's shocking how good it sounds for its size.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I'm not sure I agree with that. But I suppose it depends on what sort of gear you're talking about.

[BadKosh]

I still don't like digital on my system so much. I use a Crown PSA2 (300RMS/CH) DB Systems Preamp into KEF 104aB's. Phono is a FONS CQ30 with SME 3009 tonearm and Grace F9e Super cart.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

I'm not sure I agree with that.

On a home rig, I challenge anyone to point out the presence of jitter by simply listening. It's not happening.

[subego]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

I still don't like digital on my system so much. I use a Crown PSA2 (300RMS/CH) DB Systems Preamp into KEF 104aB's. Phono is a FONS CQ30 with SME 3009 tonearm and Grace F9e Super cart.

As of late, I've tended to have music on more as background, so I'm not too picky. What system I use depends on what room I'm in, and the current winner is the DAC and preamp inside an old Airport Express (the kind you plug directly into the wall), and a Creative Gigaworks T20.

Honestly, they sound pretty awesome for a $90 pair of speakers.

[Hawkeye_a]

@subego, i guess i understand what you are getting at when you say dont price load on one variable in the equation, thus creating "bottlenecks" elsewhere.

@everyone
I have some general questions regarding audio, as im totally new to this game. These might seem stupid, but I'd like to know for certain what we are measuring/comparing here:
-An amp. Does this just control the power and volume of the signal?
-The DAC. This is just the 'soundcard' which converts the 1s and 0s to an analog audio signal.
-WTH is a "soundstage"? I'm still trying to comprehend what it means when someone says a headphone has a big soundstage(i assume big is good) what are they alluding to?

Cheers

[subego]

You're spot-on with the DAC.

[BadKosh]

Soundstage is the illusion the source material and audio system create that has depth of field, separation and gives you a sense of the acoustical environment (Pipe Organ in a church, small live club, concert hall etc.) Having a really quiet background enhances the illusion.

[subego]

As for amps, you are correct as well. They control the volume and drive the speakers.

Usually, this is accomplished by stringing amps together. One amp takes care of volume, and a separate amp takes care of the speakers. It can all get rolled into the same box, so it feels like you're just using one amp.

Since breaking it up with one amp for volume, and a separate amp for speakers is common, an amp which just controls the volume is often called a "preamp".

[Cap'n Tightpants]

DACs... okay. The best way I can describe it is, some painters are better than others. If you gave Rembrandt the raw specs of what you want, he could have painted anything with remarkable realism. Give those same specs to a typical mall artist, you'd get a similar picture, only with (most likely) much less realism and breadth of clarity. A DAC doesn't convert 1 to 1, it's an interpretation of the digital material.

What Does a DAC Do? | Sound & Vision
DACs: everything you need to know | What Hi-Fi?

[The Final Shortcut]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

On a home rig, I challenge anyone to point out the presence of jitter by simply listening. It's not happening.

Again, I'm not sure what gear you're referring to...but isn't it what part of what makes great DACs sound so great?

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Are you talking about a "vintage" DAC? Anything sold in the last 20 years isn't going to produce an audible level of jitter.

[Spheric Harlot]

Make it ten or fifteen, but pretty much.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Yeah, I forgot how bad those Discman players were...