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Projector Room / Library Wedding Gift: Redux
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sek929
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Jul 7, 2010, 04:15 PM
 
In lieu of resurrecting the old wedding gift thread just to throw a few pics in, I've decided to start a whole new thread so you can all bask in my greatness!

Background for those just tuning in. My best friend got married in October, a bunch of us went in a group gift, a beautiful Epson 720p Home Theater projector hand picked by our very own MacNN member, Eug.

Now they have a house, little Cape style, and there was an entire unfinished room to be had which was perfect for the projector. Ideas were kicked around and finally Andy and I (my best friend) decided a whole room renovation was the only choice. I drew up some crude mock-ups of a bookshelf system that would also encapsulate the projector screen area, which was to be a painted sheet of 3/4" MDF. This was around January.

We are both busy and spent every spare second working on this room, Saturdays, Sundays, whatever it took. Come July 3rd I was screwing in the final surround speaker if that tells you anything about the scope of this project. Unfortunately all I have right now is my crappy cell phone camera, but much nicer pictures will be added in the future. Until then, enjoy! (Remember, this room was an empty shell, old blue carpet and peeling wallpaper when we started.


The bookcases, projector screen area, new furniture, new wallpaper, new carpet, new paint, new drapes, etc, etc...


Welcome to Earf! Independence Day on the screen and the sexy rear-end of the Epson being ganged raped by many cables.


Back of the room, wallpaper+furniture+wood shelves equals the exact theme I had in mind for the Library, as it is called now.


The screen shown mid-day with the curtains drawn, way better than expected. Image looks way better than my shitty cellphone can convey.


Super Mario World never looked so good, also mid-day with the curtains drawn.

That's it for now, I'd like to thank Eug again for his projector recommendation, which was an absolute breeze to set up. All in all I am blwon away by the picture quality. Yes, if you sit 5 feet from the screen it loses some charm. However, at night with the proper high-def media, at the recommended seating distance it looks like a 92" LCD TV.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 7, 2010, 04:18 PM
 
There Will Be Blood?
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 7, 2010, 04:21 PM
 
Yep, I had never seen it and Andy demanded it as one of the first movies to watch once the room was done. Pretty cool movie, and the Blu-ray rip looked amazing.
     
-Q-
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Jul 7, 2010, 04:46 PM
 
Nice work. I'm sure the cellphone cam really isn't doing the room justice.

What's running the home theater?
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 7, 2010, 04:55 PM
 
We hooked into an older PC via a VGA cable, that takes the lion's share of video watching.. We've also got the Wii, his original Xbox, VCR, DVD Player, and soon a HD cable box. All passing through a sweet, moderately priced receiver with all the aforementioned inputs.

The only real problem we have encountered is the Xbox 360 home screen flickers like crazy, while actually playing a game is liquid smooth.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 7, 2010, 04:58 PM
 
nice work! Will the long couch not fit in the room width?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 7, 2010, 04:59 PM
 
Not with that end table, from the looks of it.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 7, 2010, 05:09 PM
 
Unfortunately the seating distance is exactly where the opening from the other room is, so it would have been nigh impossible to get a bigger seat in there. Really we stopped worrying so much about accommodating lots of viewers and starting thinking about maximizing two people's viewing experience, which was what the gift was all about. So the wife gets the captains chair and ottoman, and the husband (who is pretty tall) can lay down on the couch. The sweet thing about the screen size and overall projector awesomeness is that you can literally stand at the rear wall of the room and the screen still looks great.
     
The Godfather
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Jul 7, 2010, 06:14 PM
 
From the looks of it, you may have had to use the keystone setting. If so, you have lost horizontal and vertical resolution tremendously, and horribly in the upper edge of the projection.
Count the subpixels of a pixel in a coarsely pixeled image such as the NES emulator, at the top and the bottom of the screen. If they are different, you lost resolution and may as well use an XGA projector.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 7, 2010, 06:24 PM
 
You'll have to dumb that down for me.

Yes, I did set keystoning, but to my eyes the image looks exactly the same as it did before the setting, we tested it out with the PC first, set to the projectors exact resolution and I didn't notice any change after setting the keystone. This projector has lens shift so the keystoning was kept to a minimum.

XGA projector? I assume you mean buy an entirely new projector to gain visual quality I didn't notice in the first place? Completely unacceptable and unnecessary.

Before the nitpicking continues let me remind you of two things.

A. This is their first HD device in the house, that being said they are absolutely blown away by the picture quality and crispness. In fact, the dozens of people who were there over the weekend agree.
B. I am a very details-oriented person, and have sat very close to the projector with all types of media. I have not noticed any quality issues or lost quality near the edges besides those brought forth by crappy media.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 7, 2010, 06:30 PM
 
Edit, also I might not being using correct terminology here. The Projector is hooked directly into the PCs monitor out. I call that VGA, but I assume, since it's a P4, that SVGA and XGA are also supported, I know the cable we bought supported all the 'vga' formats.
     
Laminar
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Jul 7, 2010, 06:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
XGA projector? I assume you mean buy an entirely new projector to gain visual quality I didn't notice in the first place? Completely unacceptable and unnecessary.
My assumption is that he didn't think you were getting the full benefit of the HD projector, so you might as well be running a non-HD (XGA) projector. But what do I know.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 7, 2010, 06:45 PM
 
All I know is that Xbox 360, set to 720p, looks absolutely amazing on the projector. Whether or not I'm getting the full allotment of pixels is totally moot.

I assume to not use keystoning means I would have had to install a telescopic mount, which is also unacceptable.
     
Eug
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Jul 7, 2010, 09:50 PM
 
Nice. However, did you really use keystoning, or are you using lens shift?

I can't actually remember which projector you got. Is that the Epson Home Cinema 720? If so, it has a pretty substantial lens shift which could make keystoning unnecessary.

Keystoning downsamples to a trapezoidal image, which helps to make an off-angle image rectangular. This is sometimes necessary with DLP projectors. However, if the projector has a lot of lens shift leeway, keystoning is usually unnecessary. This is an advantage of 3LCD systems, like the Epson Home Cinema 720.

Keystone Correction Versus Lens Shift


The only real problem we have encountered is the Xbox 360 home screen flickers like crazy, while actually playing a game is liquid smooth.
Hmmm… There's something wrong there. Flickers how? The home screen is 720p60 right? Or is it 1080p60? Cuz if you're getting 1080p60 flickering it could be cable-related issues. (I actually can't remember what the various settings are for the Xbox 360, but I have no such flickering in my Xbox 360 setup.)
( Last edited by Eug; Jul 7, 2010 at 10:01 PM. )
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 7, 2010, 09:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Really we stopped worrying so much about accommodating lots of viewers and starting thinking about maximizing two people's viewing experience, which was what the gift was all about. So the wife gets the captains chair and ottoman, and the husband (who is pretty tall) can lay down on the couch.
That makes total sense. I don't share the couch with my spouse, he gets the armchair though.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 7, 2010, 10:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Nice. However, did you really use keystoning, or are you using lens shift?

I can't actually remember which projector you got. Is that the Epson Home Cinema 720? If so, it has a pretty substantial lens shift which could make keystoning unnecessary.

Keystoning downsamples to a trapezoidal image, which helps to make an off-angle image rectangular. This is sometimes necessary with DLP projectors. However, if the projector has a lot of lens shift leeway, keystoning is usually unnecessary. This is an advantage of 3LCD systems, like the Epson Home Cinema 720.

Keystone Correction Versus Lens Shift



Hmmm… There's something wrong there. Flickers how? The home screen is 720p60 right? Or is it 1080p60? Cuz if you're getting 1080p60 flickering it could be cable-related issues. (I actually can't remember what the various settings are for the Xbox 360, but I have no such flickering in my Xbox 360 setup.)
More like it jumps up and down fairly rapidly. This happens at 720p60 over Component cable. Like I said before 5 modern games play fine over it, and Netflix streaming too, just the main 'menu' jumps. We used a fairly long component cable, so it could be that, but why would no actual HD content (like Netflix or Video Games) have the same problem?

As far as keystoning, I could get the image to sit just fine in the screen area, but it looked as if it were falling backwards, it didn't take more than a little keystoning to make the image appear flat. Should the screen have some camber on it or something? It's not impossible as I built the screen area able to be replaced or removed fairly easily. The image falling back was most noticeable on the PCs desktop, perhaps it would be fine with movies?

Thanks for the continued help, I'm not above tweaking the setup but even as it stands now the image is fantastic.
     
Eug
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Jul 7, 2010, 10:30 PM
 
What cables are you using? What are your Xbox 360 settings?

Both lens shift and keystoning fix that trapezoidal image issue. LCD projectors like the Epson Home Cinema 720 (if that's the one you have) usually have a LOT of lens shift so you shouldn't need to use keystoning. That said, if you're at an extreme angle due to placement issues, keystoning can help.

BTW, my home theatre is bigger than yours, but I still only seat 5 people. It's a couch in the back that seats three, and two Stressless recliners in the front. I like having the extra space too for us two people, as opposed to stuffing the room full of seating.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 7, 2010, 11:03 PM
 
Xbox 360 is set to 720p, projector is the Epson 720, we have a 75 foot component cable running from the entertainment center to the projector. I know it's very long, in the end we could have gotten a 50.

The Lens shift works great, but is more or less maxed out at the current placement if I remember correctly. I'm going back there tomorrow so I'll fiddle with it some and see if I can eliminate the need for keystoning, maybe we never needed it. If keystoning is needed the only fix I can think of would be to move the projector lens further away from the screen, right? If so how much of a move back would make it worthwhile?
     
The Godfather
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Jul 7, 2010, 11:32 PM
 
Don't move it further than your zoom can allow it. Like keystoning, if you find an option to digitally reduce the projected image, don't use it.
Moving it backwards will reduce the need for keystoning, most likely.

Eug. Can you prescribe a lens that will allow my projector to throw the image further without blowing up in size?
( Last edited by The Godfather; Jul 7, 2010 at 11:44 PM. )
     
Eug
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Jul 8, 2010, 05:54 AM
 
Yeah, 75 feet is a long run. It's possible that reducing to 50 feet could help, but I'm not sure. It certainly wouldn't hurt though, if it didn't mean ripping everything down again.

Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
Don't move it further than your zoom can allow it. Like keystoning, if you find an option to digitally reduce the projected image, don't use it.
Moving it backwards will reduce the need for keystoning, most likely.
sek, I know you said a telescoped mount was a no no, but just how much off are you without the keystoning? IOW, if you don't use keystoning, does that mean that if you made your image rectangular it'd be 1.5 feet too high? If so, you could drop your mount 1.5 feet.

That wouldn't be too bad (assuming the cable placement would allow it).

OTOH, if you're happy with a keystoned image, then just leave it. It should be fine for movies. It will likely be blurry for text, but if you're not doing text much then it's no big deal.

Eug. Can you prescribe a lens that will allow my projector to throw the image further without blowing up in size?
Sorry, no idea.
( Last edited by Eug; Jul 8, 2010 at 06:02 AM. )
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 8, 2010, 09:59 AM
 
Without keystoning, and using lens shift, I can get the image to sit exactly where it should be, but it appeared to be 'falling backwards' at least on the Windows XP desktop.

The mount we bought had a 6" or so attachment to drop the projector down, I think we could add it in without much fuss. I'll see what a field of text looks like today and make the judgement on whether or not to screw with anything.

As far as moving it backwards, the zoom is no where near maxed out. The max image it can produce is 300", and we are at 92" sitting 13 feet back from the screen, there is plenty of zoom left.
     
macaddict0001
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Jul 8, 2010, 10:38 PM
 
Is 300" at 13' from the screen though?
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 8, 2010, 10:41 PM
 
There is enough lens shift to have the image almost projecting on the floor. The use of keystoning was not needed, but a little 'slant' is noticeable in the image. Mostly on any sort of computer interface.

I think, if anything, the screen itself could be slightly off level vertically. The slant manifests itself as a 3/16" to 1/4" difference from bottom to top in the image. barely noticeable but I can pick it out. I may need to shim the top of the screen even more than I already did to bring the image true.

You guys were right about text being much crisper without keystone.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 8, 2010, 10:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by macaddict0001 View Post
Is 300" at 13' from the screen though?
God no, at 13' from the screen it could probably do 120" at full zoom, maybe even a little less.
     
Eug
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Jul 8, 2010, 11:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
There is enough lens shift to have the image almost projecting on the floor. The use of keystoning was not needed, but a little 'slant' is noticeable in the image. Mostly on any sort of computer interface.

I think, if anything, the screen itself could be slightly off level vertically. The slant manifests itself as a 3/16" to 1/4" difference from bottom to top in the image. barely noticeable but I can pick it out. I may need to shim the top of the screen even more than I already did to bring the image true.

You guys were right about text being much crisper without keystone.
Your projector may not be level.

If there is any "play" in the mount, try angling the projector upwards (or downwards) a little bit, to compensate.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 9, 2010, 05:31 PM
 
There is definitely a little play in the mount, and having the projector level was something I hadn't even considered. Fortunately it's incredibly close to level since the image is only a bit off. I'll tweak the mount and see if I can correct this minor problem.

Watched Last Crusade last night, which is a movie I never got to see in the theaters. Awesome.
     
downinflames68
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Jul 10, 2010, 02:21 PM
 
Acoustics must be godawful in a room that narrow.
     
sek929  (op)
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Jul 10, 2010, 03:58 PM
 
..and your boat is going to rot because you didn't use marine plywood.

Why can some people never be positive?

Edit: It sounds fantastic BTW
     
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Jul 10, 2010, 08:12 PM
 
Movie theaters are wide and the sound is terrible, headphones are narrow and the sound can be quite good.
     
   
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