[osxrules]

*joins back of the queue*

I have just experienced 2 of those crashes tonight and many others. I was going to post on macfixit but their forums messed up before I could submit. This is just not my day.

What made it so much worse was that I have just spent 2 hours cataloging my 200 cd collection and I got a crash. Because I was using disk tracker, the whole archive was open and after I restarted, it had flushed the whole lot. I'm now using CD Finder.

I was going to blame God for this as it seems coincidental for the crash to have happened during my cataloging but he seems to be out at the moment so I'm blaming Apple.

It's completely unacceptable. If I was using cheapy Linux or known2brubbish Windows I would expect this but when I pay extortionate amounts of cash to Apple, I get very annoyed at spurious, unlogged crashes especially when Apple just don't hold up their hands and admit there is a problem, which there most definitely is.

I can handle the odd kernel panic here and there because I know where it's coming from but this is just random and I don't know what's causing it. I'm reverting to my OS9 phase where I'm frightened to run anything in case it crashes.

My own experience which echoes a lot of other people is that it usually occurs when bittorrent is being used. Azureus in my case. So maybe it's to do with Java or some networking thing. Is that maybe why we've had two Java updates already?

But I have had crashes like this from virtual pc and it was because it uses kexts that reside outside of the OS protection. The OpenGL drivers reside here and I wonder if it's something to do with the quartz rendering engine, which uses OpenGL on some cards. If the same problems are occurring on older systems then it's maybe not the case.

I have seen this sort of thing happen on Linux machines with networking but it was when the date & time was set to be automatically set by a web server (which mine is).

Anyways, I'm very annoyed:

[EricDD]

hi. i thought i would chime in here too. i've had this same freeze, cursor moves but nothing else responds, three or four times now.

i am on a powerbook 667 dvi. 784 megs of ram and a 60 gig 5400rpm drive. 10.35, latest updates, etc. no new software installed in a while. i cloned my system over from my old drive- but that was a clean install of panther where i zeroed the drive first. and anyway, i installed this new drive months ago - this problem is new in the last few weeks.

i have a hub - an old hp inkjet printer - a bluetooth dongle and a card reader. not running any haxies.

but, this freeze has occurred when i am not using my hub, so it rules out any sort of usb issue (i think).

the only common factor i've noticed is that itunes was running each time - i am using an airport express that goes to my stereo.

no answers here .... everything has been very solid for the last year and half (logic board replaced under warranty at that point).

anyway .... nice to meet you all eric

[Siggi_arni]

I've had the last few days freeze-free ever since i stopped using iTunes at work (I've been using Uber-tunes). I can use iTunes at home, but if i use it at work, my PB will freeze. Strange?

Well, i guess i found some kind of solution for myself (for the time being).
I dont know if this info is usefull for the rest of the freezers here.

[badtz]

just to chime back in.....


i was getting freezes every day, about 2-3 times a day for awhile.... until my powerbook's HD got scrambled! Luckily I backup!!!


WHAT I DID WAS ... zero the drive out, and re-installed Panther over it.


Initially (after the install) i was still getting freezes, about 3 in the first week.


Since then (it's been over a month) I haven't had a freeze!!!!!!!!!

[Powaqqatsi]

I got sick of it and reinstalled Panther this weekend (just a reformat no zeroing waste of time). No freezes since. Let's hope it stays that way. (oh I didn't install the AirPort 3.4.3 update)

[bremner770]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
I got sick of it and reinstalled Panther this weekend (just a reformat no zeroing waste of time). No freezes since. Let's hope it stays that way. (oh I didn't install the AirPort 3.4.3 update)

That's how I managed to remain freeze free for months. I thought to myself since my Airport connection was working fine then what was the point in upgrading it? Also not upgrading Airport doesn't prevent you upgrading other parts of the system.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Threads that are 14 pages long are pretty darn overwhelming. I haven't tried to keep up with this discussion (since I've been blessed never even to experience a K Panic let alone one of these freeze thingies).

Is anyone up for providing a *summary* of what seems to be known about this phenomenon:

1) What % of users experience it?

2) Whether a complete re-install fixes it?

3) Whether any hardware configurations seem more prone to it?

4) Which versions of OS X (if any) are more vulnerable? running particular 3rd party apps?

5) Whether Apple is acknowledging any problem?

6) Whether the best minds here have reached any consensus (after months and pages of discussion) as to where in system this problem hides?

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by Love Calm Quiet:
Threads that are 14 pages long are pretty darn overwhelming. I haven't tried to keep up with this discussion (since I've been blessed never even to experience a K Panic let alone one of these freeze thingies).

Is anyone up for providing a *summary* of what seems to be known about this phenomenon:

1) What % of users experience it?

2) Whether a complete re-install fixes it?

3) Whether any hardware configurations seem more prone to it?

4) Which versions of OS X (if any) are more vulnerable? running particular 3rd party apps?

5) Whether Apple is acknowledging any problem?

6) Whether the best minds here have reached any consensus (after months and pages of discussion) as to where in system this problem hides?

1) no idea, too much anyway
2) not necesserally
3) all configurations, they seem to have nothing in common
4) 10.3.x
5) No, not officially
6) no, probably the file system: mainly the automatic defrag system that was introduced with Panther.

[Zim]

Originally posted by Busemann:
But zeroing the drive seems to be the current solution, no?

There does seem to be some benefit to a "fresh" drive with plenty of free space. That might suggest something in the defrag features added in 10.3. I tried for a while to correlate this to the 20M file size hot-swap feature, but was unable to establish a direct crash effect.

Mike

[Zim]

Originally posted by siMac:
What are you, in your infinite wisdom, doing to help? Anything constructive?

Sometimes sitting on the sidelines and waiting _is_ the wise thing, vs. sending people off on all sorts of random tangents.

At this point am trying to keep attention from focusing on things that have not been shown to be the source of the problem.

Each new person thinks they have the one mac that freezes and only their exact circumstances are relevant, ignoring large amts of what has been written in this thread. Hence my list of NOTs.

Mike

[siMac]

Originally posted by Zim:
Sometimes sitting on the sidelines and waiting _is_ the wise thing, vs. sending people off on all sorts of random tangents.

At this point am trying to keep attention from focusing on things that have not been shown to be the source of the problem.

Each new person thinks they have the one mac that freezes and only their exact circumstances are relevant, ignoring large amts of what has been written in this thread. Hence my list of NOTs.

Mike

I apologise for distracting your valuable attention with my 'wild tangents', but your wonderful little list of NOTs has as much evidence in favour of it as anything on my list of MAYBEs.

[tuqqer]

Wait, I know: let's bicker like children amongst ourselves!

Just had a Mac friend call me Sunday with this freezing/mouse moves stuff. Had been happening every few hours for the past few days. I suggested the zeroing HD and reinstall trick that had worked for me last week.

She called this morning saying it was the first 18 hour period where all was well.

So add another vote to the Reinstall OS Fix.

[siMac]

I'm not saying that a zero and reinstall won't work, it's just that it seems a bit overkill. It's like fixing a dead hard disk by replacing your G5, sure it'd work, but it's not the most time/cost efficient method.

However, I am fed up of these damn freezes and I would gladly zero and reinstall to get rid of them, only I don't have the storage space to back up my data in order to achieve this, and I can't (and won't) afford to go out and buy a FW hard disk or the like just to get around Apple's bugs.

[tuqqer]

However, I am fed up of these damn freezes and I would gladly zero and reinstall to get rid of them, only I don't have the storage space to back up my data in order to achieve this, and I can't (and won't) afford to go out and buy a FW hard disk or the like just to get around Apple's bugs.

siMac,
From what I'm reading, many of the reasons for the freezes, including mine, don't stem from anything Apple did. It's coming from a complex set of installed software. So, for now anyway, statements of "just to get around Apple's bugs" may not be true in your case. You may find that your Mac's problems came from third-party software you installed.

[siMac]

I'm willing to accept that as a possibility, but I thought the theory was rogue apps couldn't take out the system because of the protected memory and 'Rock Solid UNIX Underpinnings' that we've heard so much about.

I'm just confused and frustrated, with no way of fixing my Mac. I apologise if I was curt in the past - I think I should avoid posting shortly after freezes!

[theolein]

Originally posted by siMac:
I'm not saying that a zero and reinstall won't work, it's just that it seems a bit overkill. It's like fixing a dead hard disk by replacing your G5, sure it'd work, but it's not the most time/cost efficient method.

However, I am fed up of these damn freezes and I would gladly zero and reinstall to get rid of them, only I don't have the storage space to back up my data in order to achieve this, and I can't (and won't) afford to go out and buy a FW hard disk or the like just to get around Apple's bugs.

Have you got a mac with a CD burner, or even better a DVD burner? It would not cost much (around $15 to $20 max) to burn your data to CD. This would be good for other reasons than your freezing problems, i.e. having a backup of your data is always important.

[Kate]

I have been hesitant to post again.

I figured out I had a problem with my main admin user at some stage of investigation. There was evidence that this admin user was unable to get the required root access for some procedures, i.e apps given the admin users permissions did not terminate correctly or the app stalled, crashed or froze.
I were not able to determine if this was one (the) cause of the freezes I had seen.

I had no chance of resolving said problem. I used the backup of my netinfo user database. To no avail. I used the backup of my main admin user directory. I checked my system and user integrity with every tool, trick, idea in the book. At least those I know of. I did check for permission problems, caches, defective files in /sbin, /bin, /var, /etc, /usr and used my backups of all the usually invisible directories.

The admin user problem could not be solved.

So I finally reinstalled 10.3 from CD and updated with the ComboUpdater to 10.3.5 and all subsequent updates. It was an archive and install process. I still use my setup of haxies, extensions, prefpanes and whatnot.

Since this I have not had the freeze again. Given my experience with time between freezes I cannot yet be sure it will not occur again, but so far I feel a little bit more confident.

[theolein]

Kate: that's very interesting. You're the first one here to look for corrupt binaries in /bin /sbin etc and to use a backup netinfo db. The fact that none of that did anything makes me wonder if it isn't some system plist file that get's corrupted or something.

Good to hear you managed to get it fixed though.

Did you try creating another admin user btw, and seeing it that user had the same problems?

[Zim]

If the problem is actually related to fragmentation, then you should/might be able to get by with doing a carbon-copy-cloner operation, and not a full install.... ie. the act of copying all of the files to one location, and then back would be time comsuming, and I can't say for sure that it will help, but its a potentially less disruptive strategy than a full rip, rebuild, and reinstall of your whole system.

I run no haxies, no odd hardware, no real system modifications of any kind, and this happens, so while certainly those things may contribute, the core problem is very related to the basic OS.

For _me_ the crashreporter fix worked.. and then unrelated I decided to upgrade HD space, which gave me a "free" defrag when I moved my system.

While I have not been having freezes since, I don't consider the problem fixed, only "avoided" at this point. I wonder if I can access the bug ticket I file with Apple last Nov to see if there are any updates.

Mike

[Kate]

Originally posted by theolein:
Kate: that's very interesting. You're the first one here to look for corrupt binaries in /bin /sbin etc and to use a backup netinfo db. The fact that none of that did anything makes me wonder if it isn't some system plist file that get's corrupted or something.

Good to hear you managed to get it fixed though.

Did you try creating another admin user btw, and seeing it that user had the same problems?

I did not create a new admin user since I would have used the admin user that I knew had issues. I used root access and root did well. The other users had limited privileges.

I cannot say if another user would have seen the freeze and I am fully ignorant if this specific problem was linked to the freeze at all. I did not want to try and wait until the freeze would occur again with this or another user. I would have waited for too long while I had work to do that needed a fully working setup.

I always keep a backup of my main drive but since this is an incremental backup it was likeley to have any corrupt file as well on it. So my testing options were limited.

I know, that this machine has been upgraded in the past with some incremental upgrades from Apple, while my PowerBook that hasn't any issues was not. I usually wait for a ComboUpdater and do an update then. I remember to have applied two updates from Apple via SoftwareUpdate, but I applied the ComboUpdater later because this usually is a means of curing any inconsistency that might have happend during those incremental updates.

I did not dive into /system or /library to look for broken files there. The sheer amount of files makes this a less preferable option than an archive and install.
I keept my entire admin user folder however and it seems working until now. So it is likely that the cause of the problem was in /system or /library then.

I think that this does nor rule out any possible problem with Apples code for defragmenting or VM. As I actually do not know for sure my freeze problem is a. solved now, and b. if my previous admin user problem is related to this at all.

If I do not see the freeze again in the next few weeks I would call this not a remedy, but a lucky coincidence. So maybe this helps others.

[siMac]

Originally posted by theolein:
Have you got a mac with a CD burner, or even better a DVD burner? It would not cost much (around $15 to $20 max) to burn your data to CD. This would be good for other reasons than your freezing problems, i.e. having a backup of your data is always important.

Yeah I'm actually doing that as I type this, it's gonna take a while but if it works it'll be worth it.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

[darcybaston]

I've had two of those funky "move mouse, can't do anything else" type freezes, forcing a hold-down of the power button. In trying to remember what variable may have changed in my daily use, all I came up with was using Firefox. It wasn't until I started using Firefox PR1 that the crashes started.

The weird thing is that my crashes were several days apart, with same usage pattern.

[himself]

I've just experienced another freeze as well -- the first in more than a month. It happened when I woke my TiBook (the screen was dark, but the machine wasn't asleep since acquisition was running), and the screen was frozen. There was no sign that the screen saver even ran, and checking the time it had been stuck for at least five minutes. The funny thing is, the screen lit back up immediately upon moving the mouse, so some activity was going on, but the screen, except for the mouse, was frozen. And I've been running acquisition and azureus for the entire period previous with no probs. Just when I thought that I had it licked, it rises like a creature from the swamp...

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by himself:
I've just experienced another freeze as well -- the first in more than a month. It happened when I woke my TiBook (the screen was dark, but the machine wasn't asleep since acquisition was running), and the screen was frozen. There was no sign that the screen saver even ran, and checking the time it had been stuck for at least five minutes. The funny thing is, the screen lit back up immediately upon moving the mouse, so some activity was going on, but the screen, except for the mouse, was frozen. And I've been running acquisition and azureus for the entire period previous with no probs. Just when I thought that I had it licked, it rises like a creature from the swamp...

That does not sound like the problem identified in this thread, himself. I've had about two wake from sleep crashes on my iBook since 10.2. That just happens on rare occasions. It's important not to conflate other crashes with the erratic pointer crash found herein.

I'm starting to get a little annoyed by people who knock OS X's stability, even though I can certainly empathize with their situation. Mac OS X is stable. For my two Macs, and for most Mac users out there, OS X is rock solid. However, we do have a sizable minority of users who have been hit by this highly damaging, elusive bug that no seems to have had any luck tracking down. As President Clinton would say, I feel your pain; if I were going through what all of you have, I would be mad as hell. I would probably have jumped ship for Linux by now if I had to endure the bug for as long as some of you have. If you're having problems, speak up about it, and pester Apple for a solution. But please don't paint this issue as a universal OS X problem, because it simply is not.

[Toutgood]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I'm starting to get a little annoyed by people who knock OS X's stability, even though I can certainly empathize with their situation. Mac OS X is stable. For my two Macs, and for most Mac users out there, OS X is rock solid. However, we do have a sizable minority of users who have been hit by this highly damaging, elusive bug that no seems to have had any luck tracking down. As President Clinton would say, I feel your pain; if I were going through what all of you have, I would be mad as hell. I would probably have jumped ship for Linux by now if I had to endure the bug for as long as some of you have. If you're having problems, speak up about it, and pester Apple for a solution. But please don't paint this issue as a universal OS X problem, because it simply is not.

We have been, Apple even removed a really long thread about this very subject on their own support boards. And there are others still there.

I HAVE switched- back to the pc, where I get pretty stable performance. Until I zero my drive and reinstall the OS, this powerbook is no longer going to be a *work* machine. I'd love to use Linux, except the software isn't there yet - but it's closer than a lot of people realise.

I have heard that Apple is aware of the issue (how could they not be?) and are working on it. But I gather they're choosing not to discuss it publicly, and may simply be focusing on releasing a bug free Tiger instead.

[theolein]

I'm sorry to introduce yet another speculatative variable into the mess, but I have another question: How many people with this bug have been using FileVault?

I'm asking this because I've never used FileVault, as I consider the idea of constantly encrypting and decrypting information on my drive to be a bad idea, and I wonder if some software doesn't get its panties in a knot because the decryption isn't working or corrupted.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by theolein:
I'm sorry to introduce yet another speculatative variable into the mess, but I have another question: How many people with this bug have been using FileVault?

I've never used FileVault.

The only constants for me are bittorrent, Safari, StuffitDeluxe, Menu Meters, and MUMenu.

[tuqqer]

I've never used FileVault.

My problem was a non-Apple piece of software, called PhoneValet. PhoneValet's authors have admitted that their drivers can cause this problem, and are working on a solution.

To reiterate: my freezing problem was not caused by Apple or its OS.

[badtz]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
I got sick of it and reinstalled Panther this weekend (just a reformat no zeroing waste of time). No freezes since. Let's hope it stays that way. (oh I didn't install the AirPort 3.4.3 update)

how is zero'ing a drive a waste of time?

please explain.

I thought zero'ing the drive makes the OS format the HD and discover all of the bad sectors and puts it in the HD's memory so the HD knows not to write into this part of the bad HD.

?

[ajsedlak]

My experiences with the start-and-stop freeze, as documented throughout the last few pages of this thread had stopped for a few weeks since I disabled crash reporter. I think it must have been a fluke, since it came back today. The next step in my attempt to narrow down the cause was to give the disk a good defrag. The drive was severely fragmented, so perhaps this will help.

-A

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by badtz:
how is zero'ing a drive a waste of time?

please explain.

I thought zero'ing the drive makes the OS format the HD and discover all of the bad sectors and puts it in the HD's memory so the HD knows not to write into this part of the bad HD.

?

If you have work to do you can't afford losing hours and hours of zeroing. The benefit of zeroing is minimal compared to the time spent doing it.

[Since EBCDIC]

I'm going to suggest another avenue for investigation.

I experience this start-and-stop freeze (takes about 12-15 mins each time) on my 800 MHz TiPB DVI, 1GB RAM, with only SoundSticks as a USB device.

It *seems* to me that iTunes is the common factor here. I can't remember it happening before 4.7 was released a few days ago. I have a brand new 80 GB hard drive (thanks AppleCare!) with was just reformatted, so it's not fragmented. While I do frequently have BitTorrent running this last time it didn't.

Okay, this is all context, and doesn't actually move this investigation forward. So, here's what I can provide that's more than anecdotal evidence: each time I have this start-and-stop freeze my /Library/Logs/Console/mickey/console.log contains lines like this:

mDNSResponder[151]: Excessive update rate for mickey._presence._tcp.local.; delaying announcement by 32 seconds

kernel: IOHIDSystem: postEvent LLEventQueue overflow.

last message repeated n times

I'm unsure whether either the mDNSResponder or the kernel messages are significant, but that's what I have. If YOUR machine freezes (whether it releases or needs a hard reset) please jot down the time (according to the menubar clock) and then check the logs to see what happened around that time.

Maybe the log contents will set us free :-)

(And should I not be checking email due to trying to get coding done, please feel free to iChat me at "SF Geek" (AIM handle).)

[ambush]

Only constant for me is Acquisition

[Since EBCDIC]

If you can cause it to happen, would you please fire up Acquisition, hang/crash, and then check your log file as noted above?

[Kate]

Originally posted by theolein:
How many people with this bug have been using FileVault?

I've never touched FileVault on any Mac I own.

[darcybaston]

No filevault, and crashes occured months before iTunes 4.7. My changed variable surrounding the start of crashes was Firefox use.

[himself]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
That does not sound like the problem identified in this thread, himself. I've had about two wake from sleep crashes on my iBook since 10.2. That just happens on rare occasions. It's important not to conflate other crashes with the erratic pointer crash found herein.

I beg to differ. I've experienced the freezes while in the middle of work, as well as the one I described earlier (while away from the computer). They both show the exact same symptoms (I shouldn't have to explain it again, but for the sake of clarity...); some disk and/or network and/or processor-intensive processes are running (for me, typically), and then everything just stops, except for the mouse. In this particular instance, the machine was not in sleep. The screened was dimmed as it is set to do after a certain amount of time, and only after the screen saver had been running for a few minutes before hand. After returning, moving the mouse brings the screen back up, and I usually see the screen saver before getting the desktop... but not this time. It goes straight to the desktop where everything is frozen, except the mouse.

I'm familiar with the wake-from-sleep crashes, but I've never experienced any non-kernal panic related freezes on my TiBook until after the 10.3 updates. And regardless of the reasons for why this is happening, it's hard to trust that your Mac's stability is "rock solid" when you deal with this problem and you feel like you're walking on eggshells because of it. It would be a totally different issue if we knew exactly why it was happening, and could make the adjustments to avoid it.

edit: I will have another look at the console logs as suggested, although it usually appears that the system logs aren't updated at all during the freeze, at least the freezes that require a hard restart. And I don't use FileVault.

[Since EBCDIC]

I've never used FileVault either, nor FireFox.

I understand this problem predates iTunes 4.7, but that seems to have been the tipping point for me. For me it seems to iTunes + BitTorrent. I can't recall this 10-min freeze ever happening when iTunes is not running. But, by itself, it doesn't tip my system over the edge.

I've been running all day with a Terminal window visible, running the

tail -F -n 100 /Library/Logs/Console/mickey/console.log

command (which shows additions to the console.log as they happen). Things are quiet until I play a local song file - rather than a streaming station - then the log is full of

mDNSResponder: Excessive update rate

reports, the delaying announcement value increasing 1, 4, 8, 15, then 32 seconds. And more 32s.

Soon I'll fire up BT again and see whether I get the kernel messages I noted earlier and a freeze. Then I'll have something a bit more concrete.

Those of you who feel they can cause a freeze to happen please consider making a backup, starting a Terminal window where you can always see it, run that command, and try to lock things up.

[filzer]

i tried the terminal command, but there was no entry at all when my iMac G4 700 froze.

(it was in the background, tho)

for me, the freeze is *only* if i have iTunes on, beside BT, mlMac. I will try running iTunes alone and see if it still freezes.

yesterday i read the whole thread (!) here, with BT and mlMac on and *no* iTunes, and nothing happend. this morning i started iTunes, and Bang - freeze!

one good thing about all this: i found this nice forum and became member... hi everybody

[siMac]

It's official, zeroing and reinstall doesn't work!

Having labouriously backed up all my data to CD, zeroed my hard drive and installed a fresh Panther - I am disappointed to have to report back that it didn't work. I don't think I even got five hours of uptime before another freeze.

Here's a list of apps I had already got around to reinstalling when it occured:
OSX 10.3.5 Combined Update
All Apple software updates (except Airport updates)
Adobe Creative Suite (yet unused at time of freeze)
Quicksilver & Growl (don't blame these, I was having freezes long before I ever installed either)
TechTool Pro 4.0.3
StuffIt
Adium
iLife '04 (iPhoto and iMovie only) - it was during this installation that the freeze occurred.

Edit: Perhaps worth noting, this is the first time I can remember that a freeze ocurred without iTunes running.

As you can see, it's a pretty basic app set, so I think it's apparent that this is Apple's problem and as such they should really acknowledge it and try to provide a fix, rather than pretend it doesn't exist and delete discussions about it.

Oh well, back to frustration and (very) regular saving.

[Since EBCDIC]

Welcome filzer! I'm sorry our meeting couldn't be under happier circumstances, but we can always hope.

A question: You say you started iTunes and freeze! Were you running BT at that time, or anything else?

siMac: I'm more interested in what apps you were running at the time of the freeze. And would you please try to re-create the problem, but this time with a Terminal open where you can see it, running the tail command shown above? Many thanks.

[Krypton]

This may seem rather abstract, but what version of OS 9 do people have on the same volume as their OS X installs? I had 9.2.1 on both my partitions, whereas a G4 in the house with 9.2.2 alongside X has never had a freeze.

This is most likely non related, but I was curious

[Toutgood]

9.2.2 here, and yes, it's totally unrelated.

[siMac]

Originally posted by Krypton:
This may seem rather abstract, but what version of OS 9 do people have on the same volume as their OS X installs? I had 9.2.1 on both my partitions, whereas a G4 in the house with 9.2.2 alongside X has never had a freeze.

This is most likely non related, but I was curious

What is this "OS 9" you speak of? Is it some new X11 app?

Seriously though, I haven't used OS9 for over a year - it's not even installed on my machine so the freezes can't be related to Classic.



Off topic: Belle and Sebastien rule!

[Krypton]

Originally posted by siMac:
What is this "OS 9" you speak of? Is it some new X11 app?

Seriously though, I haven't used OS9 for over a year - it's not even installed on my machine so the freezes can't be related to Classic.



Off topic: Belle and Sebastien rule!

Well, it was just a thought... although I ran Norton and Disk First Aid before updating to find lots of lovely 'serious' errors on my disk, although Norton says that everytime.

(OT: Yes, B&S are fantastic )

[jlw]

is there any fix of yhis problem yet?

and what cousing the issue?

[Krypton]

Originally posted by jlw:
is there any fix of yhis problem yet?

and what cousing the issue?

Apple engineers are *supposedly* working on this issue, a summary of their findings was leaked to macintouch I believe (about it being VM related).

However, I asked for my contact details to be sent to the engineers so maybe I could be a guinea pig, but they didn't take up the offer.

[Since EBCDIC]

I'm terribly happy to hear that it's allegedly being worked upon. Even a rumor is better than nothing :-)

It seems that my management is talking about buying the Tiger developer package, so I may wind up moving sooner than I thought. We'll see if the bug is there as well.

Speaking of which, his morning I did a backup (daily, incremental) and set up to cause the freeze. Terminal, BitTorrent, and then iTunes. Of course, everything works perfectly and refuses to freeze. I haven't rebooted in ages, certainly not since my last hang-freeze-thaw, so I just don't know. Sigh.

I can't break things when I want to. :-/ Sob. So close.

[I was a member of the Apple Customer Quality Feedback (CQF) alpha- and beta-testing group. I know they have me on record, 'cause I get the occasional email, I'd put my machine up to a test too, if they need NDA'd warm bodies.]

[Podolsky]

I haven't found the time to read the entire thread. Can someone who has been active in it give me the encapsulated version?

Much obliged.

[siMac]

Abridged Version:

� Some people's Panthers are broken, broken bad.

� No-one has figured out why, though not for want of trying.

� Apple don't seem to care (in fact, the only action they appear to be taking regarding this problem is deleting threads that discuss it from their discussion boards).

� No known fix for all cases (in some cases a zero and reinstall seems to work, not for me though ).

That's about the gist of it.