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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Election 2024 - Guns, Debates, VPs, and the Changing Candidates

Election 2024 - Guns, Debates, VPs, and the Changing Candidates (Page 5)
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Waragainstsleep
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Nov 11, 2024, 10:09 PM
 
I don't think he was counting the votes, but apparently the tabulators were hooked up to Starlink. Only in swing states according to some people which does sound a bit convenient. I also heard one claim that he destroyed a bunch of Starling satellites the following day too. But I imagine at least some of this is wrong.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Nov 11, 2024, 11:57 PM
 
This election was a win-win for Elon because either he makes more money or he makes more shitposts.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 12, 2024, 04:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This election was a win-win for Elon because either he makes more money or he makes more shitposts.
… and for anyone else for that matter. Placating Trump is the safe option, because a Harris administration would not retaliate against powerful business people for expressing their opinions. Whereas Trump might (and in the past has).
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sek929
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Nov 12, 2024, 06:17 PM
 
While obviously disheartening, this was all but expected from me. Harris was given the nomination without having to endure the primary process and Biden presided over a period of time where stuff costs more. Even here in Mass the signs were obvious, this is what the country is now, we have the president we deserve.

When Trump first got the nomination I reckoned he spell the end of the GOP, and i was kinda right. What I didn't not expect is for the Democratic party to also be demolished in the process. Instead of courting never-Trumpers (cough LIZ CHENEY cough) maybe the party of progressives should have focused on getting the largest chunk of voters available, the ones who don't vote.
     
Thorzdad
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Nov 12, 2024, 08:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
...maybe the party of progressives should have focused on getting the largest chunk of voters available, the ones who don't vote.
Progressives? The democratic party is light-years away from being a “party of progressives.” Just ask any actual progressive. At best, it’s a slightly center-right party, that only looks hard-left because of how far rightward the GOP has dragged the overton window over the past 40+ years.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Nov 13, 2024, 01:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Progressives? The democratic party is light-years away from being a “party of progressives.” Just ask any actual progressive. At best, it’s a slightly center-right party, that only looks hard-left because of how far rightward the GOP has dragged the overton window over the past 40+ years.
It's all relative isn't it? Next to Trump and MAGA, the Dark Ages are progressive.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Nov 13, 2024, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Instead of courting never-Trumpers (cough LIZ CHENEY cough) maybe the party of progressives should have focused on getting the largest chunk of voters available, the ones who don't vote.
How? Good governance isn't sexy. Adults in charge keeping things running smoothly doesn't activate voters. Instead, invent an entirely fictional narrative about how this country is in utter moral and economic decay and only you have the cure, then have the entire force of the news media and social media propagate the narrative so intensely that nearly half the country actually believes it - this absolutely activates voters.

They do. not. live. in. reality.



How do you combat misinformation when all sources of information are for-profit institutions optimizing for engagement by pushing shaky or outright false narratives invented by conservative think tanks that generate outrage, clicks, and revenue?

Median household income rise has actually outpaced inflation over the past 5 years, GDP growth under Biden was higher than any other president, the stock market is hitting all-time highs, unemployment is at record lows, infrastructure investment is actually starting to fix our shitty roads and bridges, yet half the country believes America is crumbling because...eggs are expensive and trans women in sports?

All of this talk of "focus on what brings people together" or "talk about the economy" or "court the disengaged voters" is stupid and ridiculous - none of that works, it's very very obvious that none of that works anymore, if it ever did. The truth is not sexy when you can talk about immigrants eating cats or whatever other falsehood you can use to keep people disengaged from reality.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 13, 2024, 05:39 PM
 
LAUREN FUCKING BOEBERT!?

     
sek929
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Nov 13, 2024, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
How? Good governance isn't sexy. Adults in charge keeping things running smoothly doesn't activate voters. Instead, invent an entirely fictional narrative about how this country is in utter moral and economic decay and only you have the cure, then have the entire force of the news media and social media propagate the narrative so intensely that nearly half the country actually believes it - this absolutely activates voters.

They do. not. live. in. reality.



How do you combat misinformation when all sources of information are for-profit institutions optimizing for engagement by pushing shaky or outright false narratives invented by conservative think tanks that generate outrage, clicks, and revenue?

Median household income rise has actually outpaced inflation over the past 5 years, GDP growth under Biden was higher than any other president, the stock market is hitting all-time highs, unemployment is at record lows, infrastructure investment is actually starting to fix our shitty roads and bridges, yet half the country believes America is crumbling because...eggs are expensive and trans women in sports?

All of this talk of "focus on what brings people together" or "talk about the economy" or "court the disengaged voters" is stupid and ridiculous - none of that works, it's very very obvious that none of that works anymore, if it ever did. The truth is not sexy when you can talk about immigrants eating cats or whatever other falsehood you can use to keep people disengaged from reality.
The man who owns the largest misinformation machine has nestled into Trump's bosom, while the supposed "liberal" media will eat up a Trump presidency as a way to drive views. The outrage economy drives social media, where negative attention creates more engagement than positive attention. If the public can be so easily bamboozled at-large then what moves do the Democrats have left?

IMO they'll abandon more of their progressive views and inch right to try and win back people disenfranchised by Trump, but to what end? If a positive message doesn't work, and truth doesn't matter, and everything is owned by like 5 people we're already boned I'm afraid. The Democrats need their own Trump, what that means I haven't a goddamned clue.
     
subego
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Nov 13, 2024, 09:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
IMO they'll abandon more of their progressive views and inch right
With Trump back in office? Won’t it be tough to inch right and push back against Trump?
( Last edited by subego; Nov 13, 2024 at 10:21 PM. )
     
Thorzdad
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Nov 14, 2024, 06:39 AM
 
Trump has announced his selection of Matt Gaetz as attorney general. Jesus christ, this is just insane.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 14, 2024, 07:17 AM
 
Even National Review noped on Gaetz hard. I still expect he will be confirmed.
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Laminar
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Nov 14, 2024, 09:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
If a positive message doesn't work, and truth doesn't matter, and everything is owned by like 5 people we're already boned I'm afraid.
     
Brien
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Nov 17, 2024, 12:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Even National Review noped on Gaetz hard. I still expect he will be confirmed.
Apparently the Senate vote is not required to confirm, or so it seems.
     
Thorzdad
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Nov 20, 2024, 09:10 AM
 
Now the orange pustule has picked Dr. Oz to head Medicaid and Medicare services.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 20, 2024, 11:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Now the orange pustule has picked Dr. Oz to head Medicaid and Medicare services.
You can tell what positions Trump does care about (in the sense that he actually cared to weigh in/decide) and those he doesn't (propose the person who authored the appropriate section in the Master Plan 2025).

I'm honestly not shocked or surprised, those are exactly the kind of people Trump would hire.
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subego
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Nov 20, 2024, 02:48 PM
 
This seems less like hiring and more like casting.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 20, 2024, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Trump has announced his selection of Matt Gaetz as attorney general. Jesus christ, this is just insane.
He was only nominated because Epstein isn’t available.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 20, 2024, 04:06 PM
 
Any bets on which position Hulk Hogan gets? We’ve got a bit of work ahead before hitting peak Idiocracy in, probably, late 2026.
     
Thorzdad
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Nov 20, 2024, 10:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I'm honestly not shocked or surprised, those are exactly the kind of people Trump would hire.
I suppose when the entirety of your mission is to eliminate the federal government, I guess it doesn’t matter.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 21, 2024, 04:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
I suppose when the entirety of your mission is to eliminate the federal government, I guess it doesn’t matter.
Another fun fact: the new government body that is in charge of getting rid of inefficiencies in the government is headed by two people
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Laminar
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Nov 21, 2024, 08:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This seems less like hiring and more like casting.
Affirming loyalty rewards, making it very clear that everyone better toe the line.
     
subego
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Nov 21, 2024, 10:58 AM
 
Some colossal egos though.
     
subego
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Nov 21, 2024, 05:37 PM
 
Down. Goes. Gaetz.
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Nov 21, 2024, 08:12 PM
 
well that's *something* at least.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 22, 2024, 03:12 AM
 
I wouldn't celebrate that as a win. Trump has nominated quite a few blatantly unqualified people to positions, and the Republicans won't block all of them. I expect that Trump will have to change 1 or 2 of them, but that's it.
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Thorzdad
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Nov 24, 2024, 05:09 PM
 
GOP senator introduces bill to legally erase transgender people

...entitled the “Defining Male and Female Act of 2024.” He claimed that the bill will stop what he called the Biden administration’s attempt to “replace biological sex with dangerous radical gender ideology.”
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 25, 2024, 07:26 AM
 
It's always amusing to watch people justify their opinions with sources that DIRECTLY contradict what they're saying.

Of course, hearing actual experts on biological sex is not going to be part of this process, at any point — but it'd be funny if they were.

As it is, there's nothing funny here, at all.
     
Thorzdad
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Nov 26, 2024, 06:06 PM
 
So, the fat orange pustule has declared he intends to rescind all of Biden’s student loan forgiveness, and fully reinstate the loans. Obviously this is easier said than done, but still.
     
shmerek
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Nov 28, 2024, 08:03 PM
 
Nice!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 29, 2024, 01:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by shmerek View Post
Nice!
Woah.
     
sek929
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Dec 3, 2024, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
So, the fat orange pustule has declared he intends to rescind all of Biden’s student loan forgiveness, and fully reinstate the loans. Obviously this is easier said than done, but still.
If he eliminates the Department of Education surely the loans they authored would be void?
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 3, 2024, 06:11 PM
 
Are the loans handled directly by DoE? Isn’t that done by Sallie Mae?

Honestly, it’s not like he or his people are thinking about knock-on effects. I read an article the other day saying that his 25% tariff on Mexican imports is going to devastate the regional economy of southern Texas.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 4, 2024, 02:07 AM
 
It takes a special kind of ignorant to vote for someone campaigning on too high cost of living who’s also promising to implement tariffs.

But then, making Mexico pay for the border wall (while embezzling funds actually collected to do so) made sense to these people, as well.

As does destroying their own health insurance to stick it to the Obama people.

They say democracy gives you the government you deserve…
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 4, 2024, 08:50 AM
 
Hate is a helluva drug.
     
OAW
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Dec 4, 2024, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Are the loans handled directly by DoE? Isn’t that done by Sallie Mae?
Contrary to popular belief Sallie Mae are actually private loans. Only federal student loans would be covered by any student loan forgiveness the Biden Administration is able to get through.

OAW
     
reader50
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Jan 21, 2025, 03:01 PM
 
Countdowns to sanity:

1460 days until the Prez term ends. Allowing for the leap day in 2028. Unless he dies first, from old age, etc. In which case we find out how sane (or not) Vance is. Yay.

712 days until the after-midterms Congress convenes, which may remove the Trifecta of Evil. Vacancies, followed by special elections or appointments could make it happen sooner.
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 22, 2025, 04:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
1460 days until the Prez term ends. Allowing for the leap day in 2028. Unless he dies first, from old age, etc. In which case we find out how sane (or not) Vance is. Yay.
The chances for that are actually relatively high.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 22, 2025, 10:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Hate is a helluva drug.
So is Ketamine, apparently
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 25, 2025, 05:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Countdowns to sanity:

1460 days until the Prez term ends. Allowing for the leap day in 2028. Unless he dies first, from old age, etc. In which case we find out how sane (or not) Vance is. Yay.

712 days until the after-midterms Congress convenes, which may remove the Trifecta of Evil. Vacancies, followed by special elections or appointments could make it happen sooner.
The fact he's still around today is all the proof you need that the second amendment is pointless. I'm baffled there isn't a single terminally ill lefty who can actually shoot that isn't willing to take one for the team. The team being the entire world.

I feel like Vance could go either way if not for his backers who have clearly made their choices. That said, for all the people wanting to sound clever by saying that "if you get rid of Trump another one will take his place", I don't see the MAGA crowd uniting behind anyone else. Elon would be most likely, but he can't be POTUS, and he's already managed to fall out with some of the MAGA lot due to his need for cheap labour outweighing his support for racist immigration policy.

I've lost track of the numbers involved, what would it take for (and how quickly can) Trump lose his control of each house? I vaguely recall hearing there were elections coming up (some members being promoted would need elections to replace them maybe?) that could quite swiftly render him a lame duck and make it very difficult to do anything without XOs. I really hope the Dems have finally learned their lesson and will spend whatever it takes and resort to whatever it takes in order to hobble him as early as possible. I'm not optimistic though.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Jan 25, 2025, 07:14 AM
 
US federal elections are every two years, so the next one is in 2026. It’s halfway through the President’s term, so we call it a “midterm election”.

It’s quite possible for the legislature to flip in a midterm election. Ostensibly, that’s why we have them.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 25, 2025, 08:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
The fact he's still around today is all the proof you need that the second amendment is pointless. I'm baffled there isn't a single terminally ill lefty who can actually shoot that isn't willing to take one for the team. The team being the entire world.

I feel like Vance could go either way if not for his backers who have clearly made their choices. That said, for all the people wanting to sound clever by saying that "if you get rid of Trump another one will take his place", I don't see the MAGA crowd uniting behind anyone else.
If things go as planned, they won't have to. The wild card is Tr*mp himself, since he doesn't follow an agenda except his own benefit — so getting him to actually fall in step is a matter of convincing him it's to his advantage. And that may vary unpredictably depending upon whom he meets, or who gives him money, or whom he sees talking on TV. Best bet is to stroke him off with a bigly TV party while handing him 200 executive orders you want him to sign.

Should Tr*mp drop dead from old age, Vance is, if anything, more evil than Tr*mp, because he's not as vapid and easily manipulated. He campaigned on the opposite of what he used to sell, because it was opportune. He can be counted on to understand what's going on. The money is coming from the Project 2025 backers.

In any case, we're all (the whole world) in for a wild ride.
     
OreoCookie
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Jan 26, 2025, 01:09 PM
 
I gotta agree with Spheric, the issue isn't one that can be solved with a bullet. Roughly half of the population thought he was a better choice than Harris. When Trump dies (and there is a serious chance that he'll die in office from effects of old age), then Vance takes his place. Even if you also kill Vance, then speaker Johnson will be sworn in. The guy who took 17 (?) rounds to get sufficient support from his own party the first time he was elected speaker. Trump's re-election and much more coordinated effort to put MAGA people in place means his second term will likely have much more impact than the first. The guardrails that some “serious people” put in place are gone.

The GOP is putting people in power who are blatantly unqualified for the jobs they have been/will be confirmed to do. Yet, it seems to me that confirming people like Hegseth, someone with an alcohol addiction problem and no pertinent qualifications, has become a way for Republican voters to “stick it to the libs”.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
MacNNFamous
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Jan 26, 2025, 02:21 PM
 
You believe the election results? lol
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 26, 2025, 02:27 PM
 
There's another aspect to those nominations from Tr*mp:

Those Republicans who voted to confirm the obviously inadequate Hegseth, Gabbard, Bondi, RFK Jr., et al., have proven their complete allegiance and utter lack of integrity.

They have no choice but to remain locked to Tr*mp until the bitter end — no matter WHAT that may be or what uniforms they'll be wearing, because there is no way anybody else will ever give them a job in government, ever.
     
subego
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Jan 26, 2025, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNNFamous View Post
You believe the election results? lol
Being outvoted and being outcheated are the same picture.
     
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Jan 26, 2025, 02:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Being outvoted and being outcheated are the same picture.
I would agree that being outvoted and being cheated produce the same end result - other guys in power.

But "outcheated" implies libs have cheated to an equivalent degree. That they rioted into the Capitol building, cut useful programs in red states, stacked courts and offices with unqualified individuals, ignored norms of government, cheated on wife while on campaign trail, etc.

While the occasional example can be found of libs doing most (not all) of those, Reds have done all of the above. Often with regularity. The cheating positions are not comparable.
     
subego
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Jan 26, 2025, 02:49 PM
 
Cutting useful programs, stacking courts, appointing unqualified individuals, and ignoring norms aren’t cheating.
     
reader50
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Jan 26, 2025, 03:10 PM
 
Really? Have you tried all those things at work, to see if your employer views it the same way? You could cut programs, then use the savings to appoint yourself an unqualified secretary. Reserve (paid) time in the broom closet for recreation staff meeting. Not cheating if neither of you is married, but it's cheating your employer.

Recall, government employees work for us, and we pay them. Not doing the job properly fits with cheating. Ultimately, they're cheating us.
     
subego
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Jan 26, 2025, 04:22 PM
 
What I meant is they’re not examples of cheating in the sense of “breaking the rules”.

Wantonly cutting programs isn’t against the rules. Malicious court appointments aren’t against the rules.

Rigging a presidential election is against the rules.
     
 
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