[Mac Write]

When I visit my moms every 4th week, we have shared her computer. At the end of January, she got a MacBook. Now she is wanting to become independent and learn on her own and not always having to ask me for help etc. This also means she doesn't want me using her MacBook. I could use her MDD G4 (same as mine except R9000 64MB vs. my R9800 256MB) but as I suggested, my sister desperately needed a faster computer then my Beige G3 I loaned her. So she now has my moms G4. So now the kids each have Rev C DP 1.25GHZ G4's (with USB2 PCI cards) while our mom has a MacBook 2GHZ 2GB RAM (both G4's have 1.8GB RAM and we all have iSights).

[B]Now the problem[B]:

Since my mom wants me to use my own system at her place, what do I do?

• I can't drive and she doesn't want to pick up my G4 and bring it over each month.
• I first suggested a Mac mini being $700CDN but then realized how slow and crappy it was (512MB RAM geez). even with a fully decked out Mac mini is $1,439CDN. That is a Core 2 Dual, 2GB RAM, 160GB HD, SuperDrive.

She doesn't want to spend $2,000 and wants some middle ground. I feel that that Mac mini is slower then my MDD (esp with the Radeon 9800Pro 256MB video card). Yes it's intel, but using my moms MacBook…it sure doesn't feel faster other then it will install Aperture without a CPU hack.

So the questions are:

• Will a Mac mini be faster then my MDD G4 fully decked out in real world? (World of Warcraft, Aperture, BBEdit, CSSEdit, etc)
• How much would I scream on a Mac mini?
• Anyone done this move MDD G4 to a Mac mini?

Hopefully she will listen to my suggestion of waiing until Christmas so I can get some money together (and this is stretching to the max) so I can get a new computer to replace my G4 (MacPro or MBP).

Thanks all

[brokenjago]

Will a Mac mini be faster then my MDD G4 fully decked out in real world? (World of Warcraft, Aperture, BBEdit, CSSEdit, etc)

No.

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

No.

My thinking as well. What intel speed would be faster in real world to my G4?

[mduell]

I think the 17" one-up-from-the-bottom iMac is a better buy. Full size hard drive and discrete graphics.

[Mac Write]

$1,769+tax for that modem (properly configured, but then the Apple 20" is not being used (would be nice on my home desk). Sigh…I want to push for a new system for my place so I can move my G4 to her place. But then in 2 years it will need an upgrade anyways. Hmm maybe I can push for a 2 year cycle 50/50 deal and each time get a new system for my place then move my old system to her place. Though a MBP would solve the problem and be the same price but I like the power of the desktop (Aperture I really need to organize my 20K+ photos and take more photos and work on my photography skill and use my D70 and use the SB-600 my mom bought me for X-mas.

It's all about Aperture which pushes my needs (and yes I like having all the new technologies like CoreImage/Video hence the R9800 I bought last year but 3-4 year cylce is best for me but I can't afford it at present).

[Oneota]

Remember, Apple does have a financing option available.

[P]

The Mac mini is fast enough for anything except gaming. Upgraded to 1 gig RAM, it's not quite so pathetic, but since you're moving back and forth, maybe the bottom Macbook will suit you better. Once again: No gaming, everything else works fine. You can test out how well gaming (and Aperture) works on your Mom's Macbook - the Mac mini will work the same. Slowest model that will game well enough is the second slowest iMac (the 17"er with a Radeon X1600) or any Macbook Pro.

[dpicardi]

Why not hop on a refurbed 15" Macbook Pro at the Apple Store?

You can get the latest version for as little as $1500 and it would scream next to what you have now and be portable.

I have a Dual 1.42 MDD with 2 gigs of Ram and a 128 Geforce 4 card in it and just bought my wife a white Macbook C2D and it feels faster than my desktop.

I think you'd be very pleased with the Macbook Pro (or any intel mac for that matter with a video card).

You could also pick up a sweet 20" refurbed iMac for even less and it would be fairly portable.

Good luck.

[Gee4orce]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

No.

Er, what ?

A modern Mac Mini will blow away a G4 era machine. The possible, possible exception is with games, but I've found WoW to run perfectly well on a CoreDuo Intel Mac with GMA graphics.

...but, really, buying a Mac for playing games is like buying a BMW to plough a field. Get an XBox, PS3 or Wii instead/as well.

[peeb]

Weeel, in some ways, but not for everything. MS Office, for example, and other Rosetta apps, will not be faster until a UB version comes out.

[Mac Write]

The Mac mini is on my mom, but I would rather put that towards a new system for my place and move the MDD to my moms (which would still need upgrading in 2 years anyways, as I would keep it along side a new system). Financing is not an option. Refurbs creep me out. If she could shuttle my G4 until X-mas then I could have time to save up for 50% of a new system (by working my ass off and launching a really cool Mac site and getting my other Mac site (7-years old) current). But to get $1,500 would be allot…and I mean allot of work.

[peeb]

Try to get over your creepy feeling on refurbs, the carry the same warranty, and are usually a good deal.

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Try to get over your creepy feeling on refurbs, the carry the same warranty, and are usually a good deal.

but I also custom config when I buy to lower long term cost. With Refurbs you don't have the option. I have been burnt repeatedly by refurbs. Just knowing it is used is enough to creep me out. And Apple's refurbs are way over-priced for a used system.

[skacoreimplore]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce 

Er, what ?

A modern Mac Mini will blow away a G4 era machine. The possible, possible exception is with games, but I've found WoW to run perfectly well on a CoreDuo Intel Mac with GMA graphics.

...but, really, buying a Mac for playing games is like buying a BMW to plough a field. Get an XBox, PS3 or Wii instead/as well.

Consoles cant compare to good online gaming, such as WoW. WoW is only where the list starts, but the online multiplayer is usually what a lot of online gamers play for.

[Mac Write]

Looked at the Refurbs. For the specs they are really over-priced in my opinion. Since it's going to have to last 4-5+ years I need the fastest possible. I really need to sit down with my mom and plan this out.

[Gee4orce]

there's plenty of online gaming available for consoles man ! Have a look on the back on most Xbox 360 (even old gen Xbox) games and, most of them will have Xbox Live! connectivity.

[Mac Write]

Don't want a console just a Mac that blows this G4 away. All the apps on my moms system after Universal except Office and Quicken 2007 (once it's installed).

[tkmd]

I have to agree with the refurbished comments - they are a good deal; and sometimes you may even run in to more RAM than the stock units!

By the way a mini with 1GB Ram and a intel CD inside will seriously embarrass a g4 1.25 Ghz unit. Regardless of 2 g4's being inside.

[skacoreimplore]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce 

there's plenty of online gaming available for consoles man ! Have a look on the back on most Xbox 360 (even old gen Xbox) games and, most of them will have Xbox Live! connectivity.

I would imagine it depends on the gamers taste in games, but he did mention WoW. I am also a WoW player my self and the multiplayer for computer gaming usually just blows console gaming out of the water.

[Mac Write]

Here is my current system:

• PowerMac G4 MDD Rev C (June 2003)
• Dual 1.25GHZ 2MB L2 cache per CPU
• USB 1.1/FireWire400
• Pioneer DVR-111D (replacement for semi dead SuperDrive 104 it came with)
• ComboDrive (came with system
• Radeon 9800Pro 256MB
• USB2 PCI card
• 1.79GB RAM (256MB, 3x512MB)
• 160GB (came with system)
• 120GB (OS and Apps
• 320GB (Data Drive)
• S-Video from R9800 (second display) is used for watching video on TV
• Head-phone jack used for audio to TV (internal is running to stereo)
• Keingston USB2 Bluetooh module
• etc.

This is a very decked out system and I feel it does out preform my moms MacBook:

• MacBook Core 2 Dual
• 2GHZ
• 2GB RAM
• 80GB HD
• White

[Simon]

A CD Mac mini with 2GB RAM should perform better than your G4 in about everything but games. In the worst case, performance will be about the same when you run apps that need to be emulated through Rosetta (MS Office for example). The mini's disk isn't very fast, but you could still consider attaching a decent 3.5" 7200 RPM drive over FW400.

[Mac Write]

Well running Aperture faster then my G4 (since it has the R9800 with 256MB RAM) is a must, and I do like gaming (WoW, RollerCoasterTycxoon). Bottom line. a new Mac has to be able to out-preform my 4-year old G4 in every way. Is that asking too much?

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Mac Write 

Here is my current system:

• PowerMac G4 MDD Rev C (June 2003)
• Dual 1.25GHZ 2MB L2 cache per CPU
• USB 1.1/FireWire400
• Pioneer DVR-111D (replacement for semi dead SuperDrive 104 it came with)
• ComboDrive (came with system
• Radeon 9800Pro 256MB
• USB2 PCI card
• 1.79GB RAM (256MB, 3x512MB)
• 160GB (came with system)
• 120GB (OS and Apps
• 320GB (Data Drive)
• S-Video from R9800 (second display) is used for watching video on TV
• Head-phone jack used for audio to TV (internal is running to stereo)
• Keingston USB2 Bluetooh module
• etc.

Now that is a really loaded MDD !!

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Mac Write 

Bottom line. a new Mac has to be able to out-preform my 4-year old G4 in every way. Is that asking too much?

Not at all. But then you shouldn't be looking at the budget Mac. A 24" iMac with 2.33 GHz C2D and GeForce 7600 GT should do the trick.

[DrBoar]

My Dual 1.25 G4 tower ( 1.7 GB RAM ATI 9000) died and I got a minimac (dual core 1.67) 1 GB RAM. Non univeral programs are much slower (Office). More RAM would help I think. I am happy to get rid of that loud tower. I have not tried any games on any of those boxes.

I expect that 10.5 and more UB program will make the mini run better and better.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by DrBoar 

My Dual 1.25 G4 tower ( 1.7 GB RAM ATI 9000) died …

Is there any RAM available from that dead MDD ?

[skacoreimplore]

Originally Posted by Simon 

A CD Mac mini with 2GB RAM should perform better than your G4 in about everything but games. In the worst case, performance will be about the same when you run apps that need to be emulated through Rosetta (MS Office for example). The mini's disk isn't very fast, but you could still consider attaching a decent 3.5" 7200 RPM drive over FW400.

Would a FW400 external be that much faster than an internal drive?

[dpicardi]

Originally Posted by Mac Write 

Well running Aperture faster then my G4 (since it has the R9800 with 256MB RAM) is a must, and I do like gaming (WoW, RollerCoasterTycxoon). Bottom line. a new Mac has to be able to out-preform my 4-year old G4 in every way. Is that asking too much?

How are you able to run Aperture on your MDD? I can't and I have a faster MDD. Would appreciate your help on this as I would love to try the demo. I'm close to pulling the trigger on Lightroom as it runs fine on all my computers. But I would love to give Aperture a shot.

I have a Dual 1.42 with 2 Gigs of Ram and 128 Geforce 4 TI card.

Also, all my computers since 2000 have been refurbs whether they be Dells or Macs and I can honestly say they have been perfect and have saved me thousands of dollars.

Seriously try to get over your creepiness. Upgrading new Macs are a breeze with regard to ram and HD in most cases and far cheaper if you do it yourself.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by skacoreimplore 

Would a FW400 external be that much faster than an internal drive?

If it's a 3.5" 7200 RPM HDD with ≥8MB cache and a decent ATA-FW bridge it sure will. Do a search. There have been quite a few threads on this.

[Noscito]

Your goal is to get something that is faster than your current system, and at the moment you are considering spending $1500 on something that you doubt will reach your goal.... think about it, that's a lot of money for taking a guess, better add another $1000 and be sure or continue using your current system until the point you are sure that your new system is worth the money... (I upgraded from a 600 euro dell laptop to a 24" iMac, huge leap and very comfortable and very worth my money )

[peeb]

What you are doing is taking an (albiet old) machine that was top of the line and decked out, that is running apps that are tweaked to it's performance characteristics, then taking a new, bottom of the line machine that is running those apps under emulation and wondering why it is not screaming. You should really look at the mac pros, which, by the looks of your old machine, will suit your upgrade path more. The iMacs are very difficult to expand.

[Mac Write]

First I run Aperture using Application enhancer and a Aperture prefs file (I was going to write an article on this, but then I was worried about legal action and the prefs file needed).

My mom wants a "Middle ground" so $2K is out hence the Mac mini. I wish I had never mentioned it to her.

As for Refurbs: Yes they might be cheaper, but to get them to where a custom build system would have been could be more expensive. When I CTO I look at what's more economical and easier to upgrade at time of purchase (like Bluetooth/Airport, better video card, etc) vs. doing it after-market.

I would rather go the route of a Mac Pro (then leave G4 at my moms) or a (GASP) MBP (same price as Mac Pro) but first I need to get 50% of the cost and that if I am extremely lucky would by Christmas working my ass off (wanna help me get my new Mac site going?). I am on permanent disability so getting a new computer is not an easy feet. I have purely lucked out in getting new computers in the past, it seems I am lucking out this time again, but only up to 50% of the cost if I am lucky, and loans on disability aren't even in realm of this universe possible.

I want a Mac Pro as my next system, but I need money etc, but the other problem is with being all over the place (moms, helping other disabled people a few days a week) it looks like I am going to need a portable as my next desktop, but a portable lifespan isn't long compared to a Desktop etc. As I've said I need to plan for worse case sneerier of 5+ years between computer (and what makes it worse is I want/need to run the latest OS and Apps).

Since this totally caught me off guard, I am trying to figure this out and she wants to spend as little as possible since she is the one not letting me touch her MacBook and wanting to be independent.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by dpicardi 

How are you able to run Aperture on your MDD? I can't and I have a faster MDD. Would appreciate your help on this as I would love to try the demo.

Your video card isn't CoreImage capable. His is.

You'll need a Radeon 9600/9800 or better.

[peeb]

So you want a fast machine, but have no money - you need to look seriously about options like second hand and refurbs.

[Mac Write]

My mom wants me to have my own system there. I am fine with sharing her MacBook. It's not me pushing for the new system but her.

[peeb]

Does she know about fast user switching? Is that an option?

[Mac Write]

We've been using Fast User Switching since it came out and separate user accounts in OS X since 10.0 came out. She once to 100% control her Mac and let no one else use it.

[brokenjago]

She once to 100% control her Mac and let no one else use it.

Do you meants she wants to control it?

[dpicardi]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Your video card isn't CoreImage capable. His is.

You'll need a Radeon 9600/9800 or better.

Thanks for answering my questions regarding Aperture...
Bummer. I really wanted to give Apple a shot but can't do that until I upgrade...and that will likely not happen before Lightroom's temporary discount expires. Oh well I could have worse choices.

[dpicardi]

I know where your mom is coming from. I just bought a white Macbook (refurbed from the Apple store) for my wife to replace the hand me down Pismo she was using and she is absolutely in love with it. It screams in comparision to what she was using and is on par with most everything my MDD can do (and in many ways faster). She loves the fact that this one is "hers!"

The only thing I'm not sold on with the Macbook is the glossy screen. Yes it looks awesome if you are looking at it dead on, but if you are trying to share your screen with other people to show photos and other things it is far less ideal.

If I get a Macbook or MBP in the future I will likely order the Matte finish.

By the way, there is no way you could tell that this Macbook was refurbed by looking at it. It looks and acts pristine. The only giveaway was that it came in a brown box that said Apple certified or something and not the normal flashy Apple packaging.

[peeb]

I had a refurb iPod, and it broke within three weeks. I took it back to the Apple store, and they replaced it for a new one at no cost. I love refurbs!

[Mac Write]

I ran Aperture on the Radeon 9000Pro with no problems. the Application Enhancer+Aperture file kills the CPU. GPU and RAM requirements. Basically it means that Aperture can run on anything.

[manleycreative]

Wow! Lightroom runs soooo much faster. I've been using Aperture but most of the stuff one needs Lightroom has too. I'm hoping Aperture 2.0 runs at least as good as Lightroom because it still has extras that I like to use such as Smart Folders etc. But, man Lightroom is tempting. At this point it's either buy Lightroom full price or Aperture at full price because I got the student version and can't upgrade it. I like the way tools work in Lightroom better, especially the crop tool.

If you want a great deal go to Powermax.com and get a refurb. Particularly the Apple official reconditioned machines.

I got a Powerbook G4 (the last model made) for $1600 and it's like new. Apple replaces everything including the outer coverings that need it. The great thing about a refurb is that whatever is wrong with it has been fixed.

[SierraDragon]

Your needs, like mine, are defined by Aperture's performance. In addition to Aperture you are obviously fairly on the bleeding edge of your OS/apps needs, which means that you need strong MacIntel hardware going forward. Forget Minis or low end iMacs.

Portability makes a maxxed-out MBP your obvious most desirable choice. However maximizing limited dollars over a 4-5 year life cycle does not happen with laptops or iMacs. Best long term life cycle cost for heavy graphics users has always been mid to high end towers. When money is really tight buying such boxes used can be good choices. Refurbs are excellent, often better than new due to added tweaking by US techs. The occassional bad Mac new or refurb is easily dealt with via warranty or return.

IMO a refurb MBP is first choice. Second choice (and most life-cycle cost effective) is waiting for the new MPs (due any day now, IMO no later than May) then getting a used or refurb first generation MP. Note that Aperture needs at least 2 GB RAM and ideally the X1900 card. Third choice is keeping your existing heavily modified G4 and using it for Aperture until you can afford a MacIntel tower. Competent stock G4s are very inexpensive and one could be purchased for your other family member who does not run Aperture.

-Allen Wicks

[Mac Write]

Well there isn't the budget for an MBP the choice is the next rev MacBook and I hope the 15.4" MacBook comes true (priced a MBP and it's min $2.700 Canadian for the bare min config I would find expectable). The problem with this new MB is I might start hating the desktop (so I would have a 24" Display at home and use the 20" at my moms), which is a scary prospective.

[goMac]

The Mac Mini would be faster than your G4 in all areas except for gaming. Which is a problem given that you've stated you play WoW. The processor in the Mac Mini has to be at least twice as fast, in addition to being dual core.

The Mac Mini's graphics card is great for 2D graphics though.

[Mac Write]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The Mac Mini would be faster than your G4 in all areas except for gaming. Which is a problem given that you've stated you play WoW. The processor in the Mac Mini has to be at least twice as fast, in addition to being dual core.

The Mac Mini's graphics card is great for 2D graphics though.

I am looking at a MacBook now. Why do you think a Mac mini is twice as fast as my Dual CPU 1.25GHZ MDD. I've used my moms MacBook and didn't notice a day to day speed improvement over my MDD

[Lateralus]

Take what goMac said with a grain of salt.

A Core Duo in the 1.66GHz range will obviously be faster than your Dual 1.25. But how faster much is up for interpretation. If you're to believe Apple's marketing benchmarks, the Core Duo is not only going to be 10x faster than your G4 but it will also make your bed, wash your car and groom your dog.

If you actually discriminate based on real world performance, you'll find that the performance advantage the Core Duo has over the G4 is far less than goMac seems to think it has.

[Mac Write]

Seems your on almost the same system as me. I am taking his info with a mountain of salt as I have personally seen that in real world it doesn't seem much faster as I have almost the fastest G4 with a top of the line card that this system can handle (2 generations old now but still killer card).

[OreoCookie]

The cpu is definitely a lot, lot faster. A factor of 5-8 does not seem unrealistic (I seem to remember SPECmarks of the G4@1 GHz, something around 300). However, in practice, the speed you `feel' depends on many other factors as well.

If I were you, I'd consider an iMac: it has a Core Image-capable graphics card and a nice screen. You should be careful passing judgement, however: you probably want to put 2 GB of RAM in any new Mac, otherwise as soon as the machine runs out of RAM, it will be slower than your MDD.

Personally, I upgraded from a PowerBook G4 1.25 to a ProBook (2 GHz) and you could definitely feel the difference. Obviously if your machine idles along or you base your speed measurements on how fast you can resize windows, you might reach a different conclusion.