[AB^2=BCxAC]

I have a B&W G3 with a matching 21" Studio Display that I haven't seen in about 9 months because it's been in storage. The last time I used it, I gave it an ATA 100 card, 2 new 30gig HDs, 1gig of Ram, and 500mhz ZIF G3. It was running 10.1. It was still great for web design and illustration.

I've got the chance to go get it out of storage (in another city) and now I want to get it back up and running as a great workstation. I linger at accelerate your mac a lot, but it's an older machine and there's not alot of talk anymore.

Anyone else have a B&W G3 that they're keeping up to date and speedy, with the latest tricks and software? Can you describe your machine and what you've done to keep it alive and kicking? I want some ideas of stuff that's out there (like the recent 800mhz G3 Zif) that I can do, too.

What's your mileage?

[Cincinnatus]

I've got an old G3 bought new in 1998 (or was it '99). Its been overclocked to a whopping 350 MHz, with 768MB RAM - and the original Rage 128. Its got an evergrowing array of drives (9 GB master internal, 40 GB slave internal and 120 GB external FireWire). I've got MacOS X Server 10.2.6 running on it - acting as a DNS server, a print server (for both Macs and W2K boxen), a mail gateway, MP3 server (via NFS, Samba and iTunes), and general software distribution center for the SOHO network in my basement; In short, non-interactive tasks. Future plans involve using this box as a racoon gateway for securing all of the wireless traffic we have (err...three laptops).

Hmm - I don't know that I've answered your question directly. What I am trying to say is that your box has plenty of life left in it as a server (esp. if you do upgrade the CPU, and add a second NIC).

If you want to use the box for interactive work - well, I'd save up for a new box. I have a G4 Yikes! box (same basic mobo as the B&W w/PCI graphics) and its getting long in the tooth as a primary workstation.

/Cincinnatus

[Arkham_c]

I have a B&W G3/350. I upped the RAM from 128MB to 384MB, dumped the faulty 12GB drive for a 20GB and a 30GB, and installed the latest OSX.

That machine runs a BIND domain name server for 4 domains, a web server for all domains and multiple virtual hosts per domain, a mail server for two of the domains, and more. I run a MySQL database on it, sometimes a Zope server, and sometimes a Tomcat server. It's rock solid and handles it all with aplomb.

I have a G5 coming, but the G3 will continue to handle these chores into the future, leaving the G5 free as a development and gaming machine.

[SillyMe]

I have three working G3 boxes. My father is a DJ and we are currently using the boxes to convert his 30,000 song collection from CD to MP3. It takes quite a while to encode that many CDs, especially since the CD ROMS aren't that fast, and the processors aren't either. But it is going well, and our biggest problem is the 127GB IDE limitation of the G3 bios. All in all, we'll need about 250GB of storage to get all of it on the system (encoding them at 256 quality). The beauty is that whenever he loses a CD, be it scrathing, lost, or stolen, he can burn himself a new copy.

We will probably plop Radeon 7000s in them to speed OS X performance on screen, and update the CD drives to CDRWs. RAM is cheap, and they make good work systems.

-Derek

[suprz]

i was given a B&W G3 350MHZ with 128mb of ran and a 5400rpm 12gb HD. i upped the ram to 256, threw in a 7200rpm 40gb maxtor HD and promptly overclocked her to 400MHZ without a hitch. she runs jag just fine and to tell the truth, boots into OSX faster than the 533Mhz G4 i have now. She is a great machine (even if she is a rev 1 ) Ther firewire ports work and she just plain runs! she is sitting in my closet right now, because i dont have a monitor for her yet. I was going to sell her to a friend but he believes that i was asking too much for her. I'll probably end up keeping her just because she is just a great computer

[BobK]

the best upgrade will be shipped at the end of the month.
Don't dump any more money into it.
I know I am a jerk and you cant afford a new machine.Blah, blah.
Spending money on a machine with a 66mhz mother board is a bad idea.
Sometimes the truth hurts.

[BobK]

Also, refering to your computer as "her" or "she" is just plain stupid.

[AB^2=BCxAC]

BobK, you missed the point. Can I get a G5 and still keep my B&W G3? Yes. I hope that clears things up.

PS. I hope you're open-minded enough to accept that people you've set out to offend might have a different perspective on what makes someone "stupid."

[bowwowman]

Well....

My '99 rev 2 B&W began life as a stock 350mhz machine with 128mb of ram, 6gb HD, CD Rom & Zip. I gradually upped the ram to 1GB, added 1 then 2 more ATA/7200 20gb HD's, a CDRW, and a Tempo controller.

As soon as the warranty ran out, I overclocked the CPU to 450mhz and ran it that way until OS X came out. At that time I added a Radeon 7000 and a G4/550, which I promptly overclocked to 650mhz after 2 weeks of heavy burn-in.

It is currently running X.6 (soon to be 10.3! and singin along just fine..... doing all my Photoshop,Illustrator, photo & music editing, browser & mail functions, among other things...

dont ya just luv happy endings

[kentuckyfried]

My g3 is dead thanks to those bastards over at Powerlogix.
(*shakes fist in their general direction)

I had a 400 mhz g3, I upped memory to 1 GB, added a video card
so I could use a flat panel, and then...attempted to put in that 800 mhz accelerator card into the g3 from powerlogix. to be honest I probably could've lived without this, but I got greedy about speed and OS X's sluggishness on this system.

It should've worked, but upon correct installation, it didn't work.
replacing the g3 chip back didn't help...the computer was just completely dead.

I got a new motherboard, and now awaiting my friend to install it (he says he wants to make sure I don't jack up my computer any further...thinks I didn't install the powerlogix chip right, although I know I did).

[BobK]

Sorry, I can�t see why anyone would buy a G5 and want to use anything else.....

Why dump more into her when she is sitting next too a G5?
Spend the money on some RAM, a bigger FP Display, whatever- don't waste it on an a machine that is going to be 2 generations old.
You came on and asked for advice, I am giving you mine- in case you missed it, Spending money on a machine with a 66mhz motherboard is a bad idea.

By the way- Talking about inanimate objects like they are women- does not make you cool. Makes you sound like a guy who can't get a date.
If understanding that a computer is not a woman/person makes me closed minded, then my mind is closed.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by BobK:
Sorry, I can�t see why anyone would buy a G5 and want to use anything else.....

Why dump more into her when she is sitting next too a G5?
Spend the money on some RAM, a bigger FP Display, whatever- don't waste it on an a machine that is going to be 2 generations old.
You came on and asked for advice, I am giving you mine- in case you missed it, Spending money on a machine with a 66mhz motherboard is a bad idea.

Well, let's see, for one, some people have use for more than one machine. Personally, I'm using my G3 as a server, and my G5 as a workstation. The G5 will be for compiling, development, logging into the VPN at work, and playing games. The G3 will be for DNS, POP, SMTP, httpd, ftp, and ssh. I could use my G5 for all of that, but it would limit what I could do with it (couldn't reboot whenever I felt like it for one thing).

Th point is this. A B&W G3 is worth about $200. For $200 I have a rock-solid, reliable server. That's a better bargain than the $3000 G5 coming to my house in September.

[jtc]

Originally posted by SillyMe:
and our biggest problem is the 127GB IDE limitation of the G3 bios. All in all, we'll need about 250GB of storage to

This isn't a limitation of the bios, it's a limitation of the ide controller. Get an ATA133 card and you'll be able to use a 300 GB drive.

[BobK]

You are missing my piont, if it is a $200 machine and works for what you need "DNS, POP, SMTP, httpd, ftp, and ssh" why put more money into it?
That is all I am saying. I am not saying to toss it out, just don't sink money into.
I have a load of machines for various chores.
I don't spend my money on them- put my dough into new stuff.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by BobK:
You are missing my piont [sic], if it is a $200 machine and works for what you need "DNS, POP, SMTP, httpd, ftp, and ssh" why put more money into it?
That is all I am saying. I am not saying to toss it out, just don't sink money into.
I have a load of machines for various chores.
I don't spend my money on them- put my dough into new stuff.

Well, I can go along with that. When I got my B&W (got it free b/c it was not working -- bad hard drive), I put in RAM and new hard drives, but it was all stuff I had lying around, so it didn't cost me anything.

[drHo]

Originally posted by BobK:
[ Spending money on a machine with a 66mhz motherboard is a bad idea.

[/B]

Hmm. The B&W's Motherboard uses a 100mhz bus not 66mhz-that was for the Beige G3's.

Ok I got my B&W G3 450 back in 1999 brand spanking new as a B.T.O of Apple's Web site. It had 64mb ram, 12gb HD, CD-Rom.
Since then i upgraded the RAM to 1GB, Added the Original Radeon Mac Edition, Added a second 40gb 7200rpm HD, SCSI card, FW CDRW. It worked fine, until right b4 i upgrade the RAM to 1gb i tried to go cheap and bought 1gb of ram from Fry's. The tech guy said that the one of the ram modules fried my ram slots so my mobo became f.u.b.a.r. got a new mobo, got 1gb ram from crucial.com and havent looked back since. runs 10.2.6 alirght and i'll even play a bit of WC III on that sucker. But i can feel the pain of a 4 year old system now...cant run the current games, chokes on FC Pro, and even iMovie...so as soon as i pay for school and get my schelude and can prove my school enrollent to apple i will be buying a dual G5 from apple's educational store!. cant wait! And oh yes i will be keeping my G3
BTW: spending money on a proc. upgrade for my g3 is not out of the question its just that they are a bit costly for a machine worth under $500

[Mac Write]

Well, I am still using my Beige G3 as a primary computer. I spent $500 on it this year alone, but those were acceptable upgrades.

the first was a replacemrnt for my dying Maxtor 60GB since I needed a new drip ASAP and couldn't wait for the replacement. 3 weeks before that I got 2x256MB to max out the RAM at 768MB.

I plan for a Sonnet Firewire/USB/IDE card in 2005 (to replace my OrangeMicro USB/Firewire PCI), and then as the 80GB (replacemrnt) and 120GB (paid replacement) die, I will ad 300GB+ HD's for web/file/etc server.and get a small 20GB or something for the OS and apps and run it off the ATA 1333 (unless the sonnet supports 2 master/slaves).

I will also add a 1GHZ G4 (like I had planeed since 99") in 2005 or so when they drop to sub $400.

I am getting a DP 2.5GHZ, 250GB, 2.5GB RAM G5 in Jan.

[suprz]

Originally posted by BobK:
Sorry, I can�t see why anyone would buy a G5 and want to use anything else.....

Why dump more into her when she is sitting next too a G5?
Spend the money on some RAM, a bigger FP Display, whatever- don't waste it on an a machine that is going to be 2 generations old.
You came on and asked for advice, I am giving you mine- in case you missed it, Spending money on a machine with a 66mhz motherboard is a bad idea.

By the way- Talking about inanimate objects like they are women- does not make you cool. Makes you sound like a guy who can't get a date.
If understanding that a computer is not a woman/person makes me closed minded, then my mind is closed.

this thread isnt about buying a G5 versus upgrading a G3. it is about people still using their G3's, so dont be ignorant and start a flame war. If you dont have a G3 and dont want one, why the hell are you posting in this thread?
and about talking about MY computer as a "she" is MY business, and not YOURS.

[kbata]

I was using a 7500 with a carrier holding a 450 g4 and a Radeon Video card and an Atto SCSI card and a couple of 18 gig drives. I got a B&W off Ebay and sold off everything in it that I didn't need and moved everything over. In the end I made as much from the parts I sold as the computer cost. I added a fast OEM DVD/CDRW and a 120 gig ATA drive. For most tasks the computer is fast. It will hold me over until the second wave of G5's come out.

[dreilly1]

I feel like such a slacker. My B&W G3 is really just serving as a print and file server right now. Then again, I have a Linux box to run all my fancy services.

I have a Rev. A, and when I wanted to add a second hard drive for backups and MP3's, I didn't buy another IDE card. Instead, I bought a two-bay external Firewire drive enclosure on eBay, put two drives in, and RAID striped them. Now, not only do I have the extra storage on the B&W, but I can disconnect from the B&W and connect directly to my laptop or my wife's PB for fast backups.

I did find out that my Rev. A motherboard doesn't seem to like having more than one FW device plugged in at the same time (like, say, a external drive and a laptop in Target Disc Mode). That was a bit of a bummer...

[techtrucker]

Well it's awfully nice that people have the money for a G5...I did until I lost my job (something about development work being outsourced offshore, you may have heard about it...). I sold my G4 as well as some other items in order to pay some bills and get by. So I dusted off my Rev 2 B&W G3 400, put a 30 GB drive in that I had from a spare PC, and now I'm running Jag on it, and it actually runs pretty well. It's got 256 MB memory, which at some point I may bump up. But given the choice between the old G3 and my spare PC (AMD 800 Duron) I am glad I switched the hard drive over and can still remain an OS X user until times get better.

[NYK Ace]

i still love the look of the blue and whites and the matching CRTs, maybe enough so that i might pick one up on eBay and upgrade it

anyone try the upgrades (G3 900 looks pretty nice) with these models or any bidding advise? Ive seen some systems with 17" monitor go for like $250 (US)

[dreilly1]

Originally posted by NYK Ace:
i still love the look of the blue and whites and the matching CRTs, maybe enough so that i might pick one up on eBay and upgrade it

You want my matching 17" monitor? $50, plus shipping from Rochester.

Heck, you're in Buffalo, I'm only an hour away! You can pick it up!

[NYK Ace]

thanks for the offer ill keep you in mind if i decide to take the b&w plunge!

[Hash]

I have right now a small home LAN with Athlon XP box (self-built), Sharp notebook, a latest model, and BW G3, upgraded to

Powerlogix G4 550, overclocked to 650 mhz
RAM to 640 mb
4 hard drives, 40, 60, 80 and 80 GB
Radeon 7000
Combo DVD-CDRW drive, 48*24*48
USB 2 PCI card
ATA/66 IDE PCI card
Subwoofer sound system
and of course, Jaguar installed.

and it still kicks a**. I sometimes have some Unreal Tournament lan games with someone on PC.

Do i need G5 now? Not really. G5 can wait
, at least for me. My mac is not a speed demon, but its not slow as well. It does all its work beautifully and really great at Unreal Tournament, the only app i boot OS 9 for.

it runs OS X great.

[The Jackalope]

Still using my B&W Rev B 400mhz G3 with 1 gig ram, 60 & 120 gig HD, 52x cd burner that replaced the dvd rom, Radeon 7000 card, and an ATA 100 card for the hard drives. Runs fine, but after playing a little with a G5 in Osaka earlier this week, I think it'll be time for me to upgrade...

[angelmb]

I have a B&W 350 rev.B with the Apple Studio 17 also in B&W.
Mine has been powered with:
- 512 MB RAM
- 80 GB internal HD (WD 7200 rpm 8 MB cache), original 6 GB HD also remains inside the B&W
- harman/kardon USB SoundSticks
- Televio TV PCI card

Would be nice:
- Apple 21 B&W monitor
- a cpu upgrade
- dvd video capable

you can see my yosemite in my homepage, here:

http://homepage.mac.com/super_mario/PhotoAlbum1.html

[BobK]

this thread isnt about buying a G5 versus upgrading a G3. it is about people still using their G3's, so dont be ignorant and start a flame war. If you dont have a G3 and dont want one, why the hell are you posting in this thread?
and about talking about MY computer as a "she" is MY business, and not YOURS.


Did you read the post that started this?

First of all: I do have a b&w G3, it is slow as hell. I use it as a file server. It is too slow to live on.

He is asking for upgrade ideas. In my experience the only upgrade for this machine is a new G5. No matter how much you dump into the machine it will still be slow!!! If you want to take advantage of the strengths of OSX you need a fast machine. Sure it will crawl along on his machine, but you will never know the real power of OSX with it crawling along.
I understand that this may be to complex of a concept for you so I am trying to simplify what I am saying.

FYI: Anything posted on this website becomes public business. If you want to post about "her" in public, then it is public. We are in a public form, anything posted here is public. So if I want to let you know what an A$$ you sound like, I will. Just like you feel the need to jump in and tell me what an A$$ I am.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by BobK:
this thread isnt about buying a G5 versus upgrading a G3. it is about people still using their G3's, so dont be ignorant and start a flame war. If you dont have a G3 and dont want one, why the hell are you posting in this thread?
and about talking about MY computer as a "she" is MY business, and not YOURS.


Did you read the post that started this?

First of all: I do have a b&w G3, it is slow as hell. I use it as a file server. It is too slow to live on.

He is asking for upgrade ideas. In my experience the only upgrade for this machine is a new G5. No matter how much you dump into the machine it will still be slow!!! If you want to take advantage of the strengths of OSX you need a fast machine. Sure it will crawl along on his machine, but you will never know the real power of OSX with it crawling along.
I understand that this may be to complex of a concept for you so I am trying to simplify what I am saying.

FYI: Anything posted on this website becomes public business. If you want to post about "her" in public, then it is public. We are in a public form, anything posted here is public. So if I want to let you know what an A$$ you sound like, I will. Just like you feel the need to jump in and tell me what an A$$ I am.

Man you gotta calm down. The only person sounding like an A$$ is you. Besides, he wants real upgrade ideas, not stupid remarks. Of course we all know that a G5 would blow a B&W G3 away. Heck it'll blow my MDD G4 away. That's not the point. He has a machine in storage that he'd like to make into a small project box so he can get X running on it. Theres nothing wrong with giving your opinion and saying that it might run sluggish on there, but upgrade to a G5? That's just plain stupid. I'm sure if he had the cash, he, like many of us would be at the apple store placing our G5 orders.

Anyway, I highly doubt OS X would be crawling on a B&W. It ran quite respectfully on a 450 B&W I had. Wasn't as responseful as my MDD but it wasn't unusable. If he popped in a 900 G3 upgrade, I'd say that wouldn't be a bad rig. And if you say thats too slow, then you should tell people to quit buying ibooks as they are using this slow G3 chip. The only big limitation of the machine is the lack of AGP video but I don't see that being a huge issue for what he wants to do.

[lifekid]

well, i've got my b/w g3 with a stock 350. i've up the RAM to 512, and stuck in a couple of 7200rpm 30gig drives. it works quite nicely as a file server. i'd love to up it to an ATI 7000, a combo drive and a g4, but i think the firmware is preventing me from doing the latter. i tried with an OWC upgrade, but it just beeped at me. sonnet's firmware updater tells me that the firmware is too new or changed... any thoughts? the g4 upgrade is a standard 400. it SHOULD work, not sure why it won't!

[ender]

I don't have a B&W G3, but I do have a Beige G3 so some of this may apply. I've added a Tempo Trio ATA133/USB2.0/Firewire card which of course makes a huge difference in HD access, which is important in OS X, and adds the connectivity that the Beige G3 lacks. If both your drives are hooked up to your ATA100 card, that's good. I've also noticed that Jaguar runs much better than 10.1 on my machine, so if you intend to run OS X, you should consider installing it. You can also get some of ATI's dual monitor graphics cards for around $100. They won't blow your socks off like a new machine would, but definitely an upgrade over your built-in video. If you are not going to do anything that benefits greatly from a G4, stick with the higher MHz G3 upgrade. However, adding a G4 upgrade and a Pioneer DVD burner will let you burn DVDs. It's slow as hell, but better than not being able to burn at all (beside, then I don't have to let it encode in the background slowing down my primary computer).

As for whether these upgrades are worth it, only you can decide. Just keep in mind that many of these upgrades (hard drives, PCI graphics card, DVD burner, ATA133 controller) may be able to be moved to a new computer when you get one, so it's not money "thrown away" as some would have you believe.

Oh, and I get to still use my floppy drive, SCSI, and ADB port, and boot directly into OS 9, when the [occassional] need arises. Try that on a G5 without adding upgrades (or at all)!

[fritzair]

I have a B&W G3. Her name is Gertrude or Gerhilda.
I love her so much.
My wife and I use her everyday to check Email, surf, Quicken, do all my Photoshop stuff; develop my site, online banking, stock trading and numerous professional uses.
I have upgraded the older lady to a 550 G4 with a RAID 1 setup, That is a total of 3 internal HDs and 1 external firewire for backup.
I have noticed the biggest improvement came from the RAID addition and the largest performance hit came when I updated OSX with a security update some weeks ago. (not the last one)
A G5 is too much machine for me.
The only games I play on her are solitaire and poker. (naturally)


Mike

[Newf]

I started with a rev 1 B&W G3 in ~ '98 - 400 MHz w/DVD & 6GB HDD.

Here is where it is now:

800 MHz G3 w/ 256k L2 cache @ 800 MHz
1024 MB Ram, all CL 2-2-2
Radeon 7000
SIIG Ultra ATA-Raid 133 controller
M-Audio Delta 66 sound card
2 WD 80 GB 7200 rpm HDD w/ 8MB cache ea.

Now, for the ranking of most noticeable impact on performance, from greatest to least

1) Radeon 7000 - especially w/ OS X, the GUI was far more responsive after this upgrade, and OS 9 was shockingly fast.

2) This one is a tie between the 800 MHz G3 and the Ultra IDE 133 RAID controller. Depends on each task at hand. For converting CDs to mp3s, for example, the CPU upgrade is best. On the other hand, for moving files around on a home network, the faster drive controller rules.

3) RAM - make sure the clock latency is 2-2-2. Nothing but 2s. No 3s. Have I made my point? Makes a big difference, especially with OS X. Don't even think about less than 512 MB, and don't expect dramatic benefits above 512 MB. Just be happy you're not seeing big slowdowns when you're trying to do 2 or 3 things while the Mac is trying to do other things at the same time.

The rest is just icing on the cake.

All of my "fun" computing is on this Mac. I have also built a few PCs, I use for distributed computing contests, and when I have to. The best of these include a dual 933 MHz PIII w/ 1024 MB dual channel ECC RAMBUS memory, and a dual 800 MHz PIII w/ 2048 MB SDRAM on a 6 PCI slot motherboard (great for servers). Sad thing is, that these two computers plus a dual 533 MHz PIII and two single CPU PCs (one P3 and one P2) all combined cost about the same as my B&W G3 (of course, I put in all of the labor of actually assembling the PCs).

The Apple's the one that gets used the most, and the one I'm using right now.

FWIW,

Newf

[Gul Banana]

At a company I work for, we use a B&W G3 as the main (and only) office server. It's a small business, about 20 people, but with heavy demands on email and centralised file storage. Up until now it's done everything we needed, running OS X Server... but admittedly, we're just about to replace it with an XServe.

[CraigMiami]

Did you read the post that started this?

First of all: I do have a b&w G3, it is slow as hell. I use it as a file server. It is too slow to live on.

He is asking for upgrade ideas. In my experience the only upgrade for this machine is a new G5. No matter how much you dump into the machine it will still be slow!!! If you want to take advantage of the strengths of OSX you need a fast machine. Sure it will crawl along on his machine, but you will never know the real power of OSX with it crawling along.
I understand that this may be to complex of a concept for you so I am trying to simplify what I am saying.

FYI: Anything posted on this website becomes public business. If you want to post about "her" in public, then it is public. We are in a public form, anything posted here is public. So if I want to let you know what an A$$ you sound like, I will. Just like you feel the need to jump in and tell me what an A$$ I am.

First off, i dont think you're one to be giving technical advice seeing as you were refering to the system bus of his B&W G3 as being 66mhz when it's really 100mhz. Even the first round of G4's had a 100mhz bus until the 733's came and they up'd the bus to 133.

Second. He wasn't asking anyone if it was worth it to uprade the computer. He was just saying what are the different options he has in doing so. He doesn't need you jumping down his throat and spitting out incorrect system spec's to back up your point.

Third. I dont need a third. I made my point.

[JRSTRONG]

I bought a B/W 400/128mb/10gig/16mb/CD/16" - $275 with a 1 year warranty

But, via eBay, I sold the 400mhz G3 and the 16mb Vram card for ~$100

Then, I morphed from my Beige G4, my OWC/500mhz G4, a 'flashed' 64mb PC/ATI PCI card, 256-256-128-128mb ram, Sony CDRW, LaCie DVD, an Apple 16" fixed resolution monitor that was manufactured in 1992, keyboard, and a 1996 ADB Logitch trackball!

My USB Lexmark printer and USB Microtek scanner also transferred easily, but I've only got the OWC/500 running at 400mhz because I haven't removed the warranty strip yet?

Is 600mhz feasible? I had the OWC/500 running at 541/83.4 bus in the Beige G4, but all the ram is PC100, and all of the pertinent adapters....

IF YOU KNOW, why won't the Sonnet 1ghz chip work in my B&W? Only my beige?

Jeff
[email protected] since 1993....

[CraigMiami]

ya

[CraigMiami]

ya

[freaktornado]

I gave my B&W G3/400 to my mom, she loves it.