[justinhale]

Dear Fellow Apple Owners,

I have a dilemma. I purchased a 17 powerbook g4 about 6 months ago from the Apple online store, a brilliant machine that I�ve babied since receiving. About 3 months ago I lost a key on the keyboard. The key just popped up. I called Apple support, they sent a dispatch out and I had the keyboard replaced within 4 days. I was amazed by the quality of the support when I received the box back. Upon opening the box, I found that my keyboard was replaced with the Spanish version. How can you screw something like that up? Swapping an English keyboard and replacing it with a Spanish version? Ridiculous. I shipped it back and a week later I received my powerbook back with the keyboard in English this time, but the optical drive was not working properly. It would catch up on ejecting disks, causing me to have to press the eject button several times before it would pop out. This was an issue I had no difficulty with before my keyboard issues. At the time I was overwhelmed with work, due to the fact that I didn�t have the powerbook for two weeks while they corrected the Spanish mistake, so I saw no need to send the powerbook back for another problem right away. I called them immediately regarding the issue and they told me to send it in when it was convenient for me. Now let me stress the fact that this powebook has been babied, has not left my sight, nor has traveled anywhere. It has been sitting on my desk since I�ve had it, except when I had to send it those two times for my keyboard problems.

About 2 weeks ago, the fan started to act up. When I turn it on, it spins into the chassis of the powerbook. I found this issue may require immediate attention, so I phoned Apple. Now that I�m caught up in work, I have time to fix the optical drive issue, plus the fan issue on my 17�, I requested a dispatch. They sent me a box the next day, which I was extremely pleased with. I shipped my Apple back to them on Thursday of last week. Upon checking the dispatch status on the website, it gave me no information on the status of my repair or any information on any of my past problems. With the web site being down, I phoned Apple this morning.

When I called to check my repair status, they tell me the Apple dispatch team has put a hold on my repair. I inquire, �For what?� They proceed to tell me that my powerbook has suffered water damage to the super drive, the logic board, all cables and the internal fan. I understand that water damage is never covered under any warranty. I�ve been working in IT direction for 8 years, so trust me, I know this information. This powerbook is immaculate. This powerbook has never been subjected to a damp climate, other than Windex that�s been sprayed onto a towel, then pressed against another towel and then applied to the screen�s surface, never the keyboard. (Even if this was water damage, I would assume the responsibility as a whole.) They then, proceeded to tell me that they could fix this problem for $950.82. I purchased the powerbook at retail price for 3,299.00. Another $1,000? I�m not paying for something that I know I did not do. I�m informing others of my experience.

So now what? No water has ever been subjected to this book. It works beautifully, minus the optical drive sticking and the fan noise. I�m on the phone again, waiting, and I�m going to keep trying to get this problem resolved. I know the issue has to do with a misaligned chassis. The optical drive slots don�t line up causing the disk to stick in the drive. A problem that can be corrected manually when I place a little pressure on the top of the slot. The fan problem can be fixed when I apply a slight tap to the area by the left speaker. I�d just like a flawless book that I wouldn�t have to do these unnecessary things to. When you pay this much for superior hardware, you want it to stay that way.

I�m at a loss of what to do. I fix computers and attend a major University where I�ve swayed numerous people to go the Apple way. Now, I�m not so sure anymore. What to do now?

Thanks for reading this and for your time,

Justin Hale

PS. I�m on the phone now and I�ve been on hold for over 30 minutes. Seems every time I try to reach a higher up, they just delay the issue further. Often times leading to a disconnection. HELP ME APPLE!

A semi-proud owner of:

2 17� Powerbooks
2 23� Studio Displays
2 I-Sights
2 Wireless Keyboards
10g Ipod
1 Wireless Mouse
2 Icurves
JBL Creature Speakers

[Link]

This sounds EXTREMLY familiar.

I suggest you PM seanyepez.. he had the exact same problem in almost the exact same way.. damn those texas servicepeople are crazy.

Eh oh well.. did I ever tell you about the time they sent back my cinema display without the LCD?

[buddy1065]

That does it. No one can tell me Apples service does not reek big time, especially since I had to send my Ti in 5 times for paint repair and each time it came back there was additional damage except the 5th time.

[spatterson]

I suggest photo documentation of everything! Then you can say "I told you so"!!!

[justinhale]

thank you for the input thus far. not sure what to do yet.

[justinhale]

any new suggestions?

[polendo]

Originally posted by justinhale:
any new suggestions?

If you bought it with a credit card, check if you have some kind of insurance (of this bought with that credit card). If you have that insurance, claim a new pb or get your money bank. It's way too much money to be disregarded by bad service.

good luck.

[one09jason]

Write a Letter. Write a Letter. Write a Letter.

Apple as a corporation seems to be getting more and more unscrupulous. I have had several such problems, which I won't bore you with. I think that writing to Apple corporate is the best thing to do as a way of protesting this sort of poor customer service. Speaking to the reps on the phone will get you nowhere. It seems they are highly trained in stonewalling and trying to get rid of you when you have a genuine problem that does not fall within their narrow guidelines.

As a way of protecting your self, I would agree with using your credit card company to support you. There is law to support consumer rights. Short of hiring a lawyer that's your best hope of enforcing them.

Best of Luck

[The Placid Casual]

All this Doesn't surprise me... they are just as bad here in Europe.

I had a dual USB iBook that I was forced to send in to have a new battery...

Came back with a broken keyboard, screen, casing and chassis; took 10 weeks for them to fix!

I would write a very strong letter and email [email protected]

Peace,

Marc

[Link]

yeah, as I said before, apple makes awesome products and their support is considered DECENT.

But when apple screws up, they REALLY mess it up. The saddest thing though, is they tendto screw over the most loyal users.

Like I said, a few people come to mind, i don't have enough fingers to count on how many people I know who have had the same thing happen to them as what happened to you, TPC.

In fact I bet your ibook got sent to flextronics, as they tend to handle most ibook repairs. I'm not sure how it goes, or who handles what, I think apple austin = flextronics, apple kentucky = teleplan international (it's funny because teleplan has an office in dallas).

Anyway, teleplan is known to, despite company's instructions, just throw a "no problem found" slip into the box and send it back. Flextronics, however ,is known for (and to me has a reputation ACROSS manufacturers) to take things, and send them back with more problems then they came in with.

Either way, just food for thought. Still, the worst thing is when scenarios like this happen, instead of apple sitting back, getting real, and helping the customer out, they treat them awful... it's just disgusting.

As far as the [email protected] route.. you might get luck.. REMEMBER YOU PROBABLY AREN'T GOING TO GET ANSWERED BY STEVE <-- these emails get read by just about anyone in the executive relations department.

If anything you'll get one of the executive customer relations people (greg johnson, a few others whose names I can't think of right now, etc <-- damn bad memories stick in my head), and if you're lucky, they'll level with you. If ot they'll take over your case (meaning any time you call apple regarding that problem you'll get forwarded to him or her), and you'll pretty much get stone walled. FROM EXPERIENCE it's very hard to get around that wall.

On the other hand, you could also get a very decent person who will level with you and have the machine replaced.

Sometimes the best thing to do in a situation like this is call apple customer relations (1-800-275-2273) which will get you an operator if you try -- ask for customer relations, but anyway, you'll get through, the first person will hopefully forward you to another (remember you MUST have a case number already), and the second person will probably be able to get your comp replaced or fixed, or something straightened out there.

Since you have a case number this is easy. FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT: call apple tech support, go along the usual route "I'd like to get my machine repaired, etc" once they go through the usual case number thing, ask for case and dispatch number ,THEN tell them politely that since this is an outstanding problem you want to go through to customer relations.. nothing to do with them but you've had an awfully hard time getting it taken care of, they'll talk to a CR rep, and hopefully all will get resolved <-- I've done this before with a display.

Either way, good luck.

btw (man I can't stop this thought: applecare seems to randomly screw people over lol. Don't get too shaken up about it, it happens, you just fell into a ditch few people have, and it's a tricky one to get out of hehe.

A friend of mine, who formerly worked for apple, actually got screwed over pretty bad, and at one point I even 3-wayed with him because I doubted it.. the person there said despite his being an employee he had no priorities, etc.. man that was something.

[justinhale]

update: well, talked to apple customer relations this morning, to a lady named "unis." it's going to be another 24 hours while they review the case even further. They plan to have the tech take digital pictures of the water damage and send them to me. I can't wait to see what they come up with. More waiting, more delays. I hope to get this resolved soon. Meanwhile, the apple support site still has no information reguarding my case, (on clicking my case number, the result = "No Data Available") same with my past instances. so my apple stays in apple land, on hold, where i can't watch it.

when i get home from work i'm going to write a letter.

water damage wouldnt cause a CD from the optical drive to stick on a misaligned chasis! nor would it cause a misaligned fan, that you can tap into place!


is the relations address:

apple computer corp.
attn: customer relations
one infinite loop
cupertino, ca 95014
?

thanks,
justin

ps - depending on how this is resolved, (i have extremely good documentation of the book before it was shipped, photos, etc.) i may result to contacting my friends in the local media. local news teams, TV, newspaper, etc.. with this possible bad press, i wouldnt want to own the new apple store in Lyndhurst, Ohio, Legacy Village.

[seanyepez]

AppleCare blows.

[seanyepez]

I only was able to convince apple to fix my PowerBook free of charge because they sent it back to me disassembled with spare parts wedged between its logic board and chassis.

When it came back, it had a snapped memory bracket and a blotchy screen. I didn't bother to complain. It worked. Its power manager died a few weeks later, and its screen finally went out for good when I was in Germany.

[seanyepez]

I haven't purchased a new Mac since. I wouldn't touch the new 15-inch PowerBooks with blotchy screens with a ten-foot long pole.

[justinhale]

here�s what happened,
wrote a letter to apple, corp,
wrote an email to sjobs,
my status was moved up to the executive level
the steve jobs route worked.
they gave me the runaround for a couple of days while they sorted out the problem and investigated my issue further.

after the initial investigation they sent me a photo of the spill damage. i�d actually like it if someone on here, (that may be an apple tech,) could look at it and determine if the problem i was having even matches with the spill in the photo. they determined the damage to be caused by either coke, coffee or a similar sticky substance. (none of which i drink as i work in a clean environment.)
well, anyhow, they quoted the repairs @:

1 ACSH04 PORTABLE OOW SHIPPING CHG $21.30
1 S1586LL/A SVC LABOR PBG4-USA $106.75
1 S1583LL/A SVC PRT PBG4 TIER 3 BDS/DVD/HD-USA$912.71


Subtotal $1,040.76
Total Repair Estimate $1,040.76


after alot of bad wind, i received a call back from my apple executive representative,
apple agreed to pay half of the price of the final cost.

so stuck at 520.38, i picked up a cashiers check,
(the only form of payment they would accept at this level. )
and shipped it out,
now, about 2 weeks, 2 fridays ago, it�s in repair.
should see it on friday, perhaps monday.

at this point I just want my book back in my hands.
haven�t been able to play with panther yet,
and i bought on the day of the release!

well, that�s that.
cheers,
justin

[romeosc]

Should have had Safeware.com insurance.
Covers anything but normal breakdown about $60 / M per year.

[tungtied07]

Hi, You should not pay anything to get the powerbook repaired!! Maybe shipping damage caused the water damage? Could we see the picture of the powerbook?

This reminds me, a week ago i send my dual usb ibook for repair. When I received it back it was totally screwed. Combodrive misaligned, all plastics cracked and scratched. I called apple and they blamed me for it!! I finally got to a nice customer serivce rep and they said they will fix it.
Ended up they replaced every single part in the ibook! I mean, its totally rebuilt. What a waste of money for apple..i guess, they should just replace it with a new machine...

[justinhale]

here's the picture they sent me in a .sit file

[tungtied07]

sorry your link isn't working..could you please correct it? thanks

p.s. did you get the powerbook back yet from repair?

[justinhale]

no book yet, link is fixed.. typed it too fast!

any chance that my repairs will be all upgraded parts?

it's a tier 3 repair
it breaks down like this:

Tier 1: No Parts
Tier 2: Plastics, modem, CD ROM, cable
Tier 3: Logic board, hard drive, DVD, CD-RW
Tier 4: LCD

Description Part and Labor Telephone Troubleshooting Shipping Total
Tier 1 $255.00 USD $49.00 USD $19.95 USD $323.95 USD
Tier 2 $610.00 USD $49.00 USD $19.95 USD $678.95 USD
Tier 3 $955.00 USD $49.00 USD $19.95 USD $1023.95 USD

so will my parts be all new upgraded and graduated?
or just the old deal.. prob. refurb.

guess time will tell.

[tungtied07]

they won't upgrade.
Looked at the picture, did apple take that pic? It looks more like Coke or Dr. Pepper got spilled on it.
If you said the PB was working fine before you sent it out, its Probably SHIPPING DAMAGE. Did you ask apple about that? If i were you at that time, i wouldn't pay a single cent to get this fixed. It was clearly apple's fault... IMO...

[justinhale]

apple took the pic.
they said the book would stop working as a whole in time.
thought it the right choice. 500 vs another 3600?
even if i would have ebayed it, (with the damages in the terms), it still would have been about the same loss.

[seanyepez]

Did you really pay half of the repair cost?

I told them I wouldn't pay a single cent to repair the PowerBook because I didn't spill anything in my PowerBook. They sent me the computer back disassembled. I went to the Apple Store and showed the people there how Apple sent me back my PowerBook. I asked them to note its condition in my case file. Apple called me back a day or two later and offered to fix my PowerBook free of charge. They must have screwed something up while replacing its motherboard and SuperDrive because it broke completely shortly after I got it back.

[polendo]

It is unbelivable how they returned that computer disasembled. Incredible. Is great to know your got your computer fixed for free though.

[beachmark]

In order to tackle the whole route of talking to different people in a case like this: does anybody have an US internal phone listing of Apple? With a listing like that it must be easy to get hold ofthe right people.

I have a listing of all names, phone numbers and e-mail addresses of those who work for Apple in Holland .

It has been of great help to me in the past.

Maybe you should all do the same with the USA

[Link]

This just about seals the deal. I'm not buying another apple product. Bastids.

edit: sadly after having messed with a 15" today, and hearing that the spot issue has been fixed.. I want one >_>

[benb]

Originally posted by Link:
This just about seals the deal. I'm not buying another apple product. Bastids.

Sure you are.

[JohnM15141]

This would be a great subject for an investigation for one of the larger Mac Websites or Magazine. They should buy several brand new "off the shelf" powerbooks. Tear off one rubber foot and send them off to Apple and evaluate them as they come back. Or better yet do something minor that would require some dissassembly like a broken pin in a USB Port. An expose' like this may be just the kick in the pants Apple Repair needs so they will tighten up quality control in their repair department.

[Fast iBook]

Whoever is dissatisfied about their apple product please IM me on "pmacdesigner". I cant promise results but i will try to have your situation resolved. If you know anyone that is also dissatisfied please have them IM me as well. If we work together we can end the whole "no quality control" issue.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by Fast iBook:
Whoever is dissatisfied about their apple product please IM me on "pmacdesigner". I cant promise results but i will try to have your situation resolved. If you know anyone that is also dissatisfied please have them IM me as well. If we work together we can end the whole "no quality control" issue.

Do you work for Apple?

--DekuDekuplex

[seanyepez]

Originally posted by Fast iBook:
Whoever is dissatisfied about their apple product please IM me on "pmacdesigner". I cant promise results but i will try to have your situation resolved. If you know anyone that is also dissatisfied please have them IM me as well. If we work together we can end the whole "no quality control" issue.

With any other product, one would contact its manufacturer directly to have an issue with that product resolved. Why should problems with Apple products be resolved any differently?

[Vi0]

Apple Doesntcare.

Seriously, I don't know how the hell Apple gets away with treating its customers like garbage. It seems if you ask to have something repaired under your warranty, they give you a little something extra in case you think about calling them up again.

Extended warranties are a joke. Once in a blue moon they may pay off, but usually not.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by Vi0:
Apple Doesntcare.

Seriously, I don't know how the hell Apple gets away with treating its customers like garbage. It seems if you ask to have something repaired under your warranty, they give you a little something extra in case you think about calling them up again.

Extended warranties are a joke. Once in a blue moon they may pay off, but usually not.

Speaking of extended warranties, have there been any tales of qualitative differences in repair quality between PowerBooks submitted without and with the AppleCare Protection Plan?

--DekuDekuplex

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by Link:
This just about seals the deal. I'm not buying another apple product. Bastids.

edit: sadly after having messed with a 15" today, and hearing that the spot issue has been fixed.. I want one >_>

aah jeez your addictd you should know you can never leave.
gawd I know I can't leave.

[rag on a muffin]

i *fear* taking my computer to repair, because of the problems i have been having with their crappy repair service. my freind also feras the repair center has ANYONE ever had good luck with repairs by apple??

[an0therdumbsn]

Wow all this talk and thread upon thread of bad apple customer service makes me regret slightly my purchase of the apple care plan on my 15".
I know with my iPod i had an issue with the screen sometimes going out, they said the problem couldnt be "recreated" and there was no internal damage. All in all very nice out it, i think theres a big difference between the service you get when being at an apple store and calling over the phone.
Either way apple obviously realises that it can get away with such horrible customer service because other than the P.C/Windows route (which we clearly dont want to take) there is no decent alternative.

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by rag on a muffin:
i *fear* taking my computer to repair, because of the problems i have been having with their crappy repair service. my freind also feras the repair center has ANYONE ever had good luck with repairs by apple??

only at an authorized repair center not run by apple.

[Randman]

Originally posted by justinhale:
update: well, talked to apple customer relations this morning, to a lady named "unis."

Could it have been Eunice?

[Andrew Stephens]

Maybe you misheard? Perhaps her name was UNIX and the whole thing is some elaborate Turing Test!!

[urrl78]

Why dig up this post from last Chrismas, 6 months ago? One thing I have learned when dealing with Apple; bring your unit to an Apple store if possible and have a genius witness your problem AND he will record any exterior damage to your Powerbook if you ask him, for a record. My experience is that things have improved. Sure they could not fix my screen on my 1 Ghz I had for a year, but after 3 tries they gave me a brand new 1.5 Ghz 17" Powerbook.
I haven't read any very recent horror stories of additional damage gone unrepaired and holding the customer responsible; has anyone else? I still don't know the outcome; Justinhale never reported receiving his Powerbook.

[Agent69]

Originally posted by urrl78:
Justinhale never reported receiving his Powerbook.

Yeah Justin, what happened? Don't write about all this and not tell us the conclusion.

[Lancer409]

damn . i got a 12inch powerbook replaced with a new one over one stuck green pixel. i mean ... i had to bitch n moan a bit before they decided to, but i also brought it in approx 20 hours from time of purchase. wow .. dissasembled .. **** .. that's a bi7ch .. that's just wrong

[justinhale]

Sorry for leaving you all in the dark.

I got the powerbook back soon after that last post and everything was and still is working at 100%. Since then I've purchased another 15" 1.33 and I'm currently waiting to get one of the new iMacs.

Other than that $500 bill, I'm pretty happy with apple.

[Professional gone wild]

I am a 30 year executive secretary and have met my match with Apple customer relations. I could use some points. On September 16 at 4:30 CST, before the hurricane was projected, I was promised an out of warranty replacement by someone named "Jackie" in Customer Relations. She said a box would be sent and it never came. I phoned today & they have no record of this transaction from the 16th and talk about nasty on the phone. I guess technically, they were "curt". Much to my anguish, I didn't think to ask for a confirmation number, case number, dispatch number or whatever. She didn't offer a number & I didn't ask. Now they have no record of this. All they could say today is that their customer relations department was evacuated & I should understand this. - I said I do understand, but that doesn't explain why there is no record of my contact with "Jackie" on the 16th considering that this was before the storm was forecasted. I told her I don't mind waiting, but why is this transaction not even posted. They were very rude. I've spent a lot of money with Apple. They are so friendly when you are ordering their products.

What would you suggest???? the pod was purchased 13 months ago. They never offered me an extended warranty, and I would gladly have purchased it for $47 after spending another $2100. And, the sad thing is it was a chrismas present for my college daughter who has really only used it for 8 months.

Originally Posted by Link

yeah, as I said before, apple makes awesome products and their support is considered DECENT.

But when apple screws up, they REALLY mess it up. The saddest thing though, is they tendto screw over the most loyal users.

Like I said, a few people come to mind, i don't have enough fingers to count on how many people I know who have had the same thing happen to them as what happened to you, TPC.

In fact I bet your ibook got sent to flextronics, as they tend to handle most ibook repairs. I'm not sure how it goes, or who handles what, I think apple austin = flextronics, apple kentucky = teleplan international (it's funny because teleplan has an office in dallas).

Anyway, teleplan is known to, despite company's instructions, just throw a "no problem found" slip into the box and send it back. Flextronics, however ,is known for (and to me has a reputation ACROSS manufacturers) to take things, and send them back with more problems then they came in with.

Either way, just food for thought. Still, the worst thing is when scenarios like this happen, instead of apple sitting back, getting real, and helping the customer out, they treat them awful... it's just disgusting.

As far as the [email protected] route.. you might get luck.. REMEMBER YOU PROBABLY AREN'T GOING TO GET ANSWERED BY STEVE <-- these emails get read by just about anyone in the executive relations department.

If anything you'll get one of the executive customer relations people (greg johnson, a few others whose names I can't think of right now, etc <-- damn bad memories stick in my head), and if you're lucky, they'll level with you. If ot they'll take over your case (meaning any time you call apple regarding that problem you'll get forwarded to him or her), and you'll pretty much get stone walled. FROM EXPERIENCE it's very hard to get around that wall.

On the other hand, you could also get a very decent person who will level with you and have the machine replaced.

Sometimes the best thing to do in a situation like this is call apple customer relations (1-800-275-2273) which will get you an operator if you try -- ask for customer relations, but anyway, you'll get through, the first person will hopefully forward you to another (remember you MUST have a case number already), and the second person will probably be able to get your comp replaced or fixed, or something straightened out there.

Since you have a case number this is easy. FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT: call apple tech support, go along the usual route "I'd like to get my machine repaired, etc" once they go through the usual case number thing, ask for case and dispatch number ,THEN tell them politely that since this is an outstanding problem you want to go through to customer relations.. nothing to do with them but you've had an awfully hard time getting it taken care of, they'll talk to a CR rep, and hopefully all will get resolved <-- I've done this before with a display.

Either way, good luck.

btw (man I can't stop this thought: applecare seems to randomly screw people over lol. Don't get too shaken up about it, it happens, you just fell into a ditch few people have, and it's a tricky one to get out of hehe.

A friend of mine, who formerly worked for apple, actually got screwed over pretty bad, and at one point I even 3-wayed with him because I doubted it.. the person there said despite his being an employee he had no priorities, etc.. man that was something.

[Rob van dam]

WOW interesting thread. This reminds me of my painful experience with apple earlier this year when i required the backlight to be repaired for a G5 imac.It took 24 days from memory to get an onsite repair,I spoke to 5 diffrent people in customer relations and was told and i quote"We can't push the resller to do the repair"WTF" i thought to myself.After about a week and a half i called the reseller who was doing the repair and i was told by the person on the phone the techie had to leave early due to an ilness in the family so i began to feel some sympathy.But 5 days later i call to check up on my status for an onsite repair i am told he is on vacation i mean WTF.But my resent interaction with apple care was when safari was taking 30 bounces in the dock and was damn slow.Anyway i was told to reinstall some updates and everything would be fine.When nothing appeared fixed i called again with the problems and was welcomed with "you were not paying attention to the "senior"safari technition"It made me feel some small it was a sad day.

What makes it worse ive had dell give me better suport

[Arolte]

Ouch. It sounds like you've had quite a bad experience there. I really don't know what advice I can offer. I mean I guess those of us who got screwed over could individually send letters to Apple expressing our discontent with customer service. But somehow I doubt that'll change anything. If the past has taught us anything with Apple, it's that class action lawsuits seem to be the only way to get any action done. It's sad but it's true.

Normally I'd hate people who would sue somebody else at the drop of a feather. I realize how ridiculous some lawsuits can be and how a lot of people get away with it, especially in this country. However, in my opinion, great businesses usually practice some level of common sense and understanding. This means cutting the customer some slack and giving them the benefit of the doubt. I mean that's what creates happy and loyal customers, right? Until the customer has been caught in a lie or there's something distinctly suspicious about certain activity, there really should be no reason why the blame should be put on them.

It is my understanding that Apple keeps a record of each customer through their Apple ID system. They keep in their possession historical records of past inquiries and repairs, as well as God knows what. A customer who constantly lies and plays the company like a fool would very easily stick out like a sore thumb with a system like that. I mean someone who is irresponsible would have a distinctly different record than someone who is honest. So why Apple just doesn't give the customer the benefit of the doubt is beyond me.

That being said, I've had a few bad experiences of my own, with Apple. Just to illustrate how things have gotten worse over the years, I'll give a rundown of all the Macs I've owned and the problems I've had with them. But before I start I'd just like to say that I used to be one of the biggest Apple fans ever. I absolutely loved the company. I had no serious problems with Macs before and I was even beginning to get the impression that Apple's computers were flawless and invincible. But maybe that was just pure luck. Because later on things changed...

1. The first Mac I've ever owned was a 333MHz (rev D) iMac. I had absolutely no problems with this computer. Well except... the door hatch to the right ports snapped off and I had to replace an internal battery. But aside from that... to this day it still runs great. I'd have to say that despite its bulkiness, the original iMacs would probably have to be one of Apple's most reliable and cheapest Macs built. I don't know much about the new ones or the Mac Mini though. They might be great too. I just know that my iMac was pretty damn solid and cheap for what it was at the time.

2. The 700MHz (rev C) iBook was my second Mac. It was perfect right out of the box. I had no problems with it. But over time the CD tray would start to stick. The ejection mechanism would just get stuck in a loop and I'd have to lift the iBook up to get it to pop out. Something internally must've got bent or misaligned or something, even though I never dropped or slammed the thing down. Anyway that got sent in for repairs and that problem was solved. Then the battery just flat out died on me. Here's where things with customer service got a little interesting.

I went to the local retail Apple store and gave my iBook to the Genius Bar for inspection. The Genius confirmed that the battery I was given was in fact dead, after going through all the checks like zapping PRAM, resetting the PMU, and all the other good stuff. The thing would just spontaneously drop its charge and shut my iBook down. So the guy said Apple would send me a new one and I'd just have to go home and wait for a package to arrive. I waited and the package arrived. I had a fresh new battery in my possession. I looked over the rest of the package contents and didn't notice anything regarding whether I'd need to send the old one in. So I assumed it was alright to keep it. I've never owned an Apple laptop before so I really had no clue whether it was alright (sorry if this seems stupidly obvious).

A few weeks passed and I received an invoice in the mail for the price of a brand new iBook battery. I had no idea why I was charged so I called up AppleCare and asked them why I was charged, since I was told by the Genius at the store that the battery replacement would be free. They told me that I didn't send the old one in so I'd have to be charged for that. I explained to them that I didn't receive any instructions on sending my old battery back, be it written or verbal form. She told me that it was too late and they'd no longer accept my old battery. So I was stuck with bill of a brand new battery on my hands. Awesome, right?

A few days pass and I decide to call up AppleCare again. Another rep answers the phone. I explain my situation all over again and this time the guy informs me that the enclosed document (that originally came with the replacement battery) should've instructed me to send the old battery back to Apple. So I dig through all my stuff and pull out the document that came with the replacement battery and reread the entire thing over the phone to this guy. After a long pause he tells me that I might've received an old version of the document, which just so happens to NOT have that useful bit of information on there. Wonderful.

So he told me that if I'd scan it and send a printout copy of the document, along with my old battery, back to Apple through a package, I'd only be charged a restocking fee. Okay great. Well at this point I'd rather not pay for a new battery, so I took ninety some dollar restocking fee and sent the dead battery back instead. So either way I have to pay something just because Apple accidentally send me an old version of a document. It's a lose-lose situation. But at that point I was just tired of arguing, so I just cut my losses.

But that's not all... after about a month or so I notice that no refund has appeared on my bank account whatsoever. So I call up the same guy (who gave me his email and extension number) and ask him whether the refund was ever made. With an angry tone he tells me that it has and he hangs up on me. It wasn't until two or three weeks when that refund finally appeared on my statement. Hey I just had to be sure. Yeesh! There's absolutely no reason why he had to be rude like that. It's just completely unprofessional, you know? But whatever, I got what I wanted so I shrugged it off.

After that my iBook really didn't have that many problems. Well that is until I sold it to my sister. The logic board decided to randomly fail on her. But luckily a class action lawsuit has allowed the warranty of my particular model to be extended, to get the logic board replaced for free. And so we got that taken care of and the iBook was back to normal again. So at least that was one good thing to come out of the whole iBook ordeal. Too bad it took a class action lawsuit for that to be a success. Sigh...

3. The current Mac I have now is 12-inch PowerBook (1GHz, rev B). The one I ordered was delayed for about 2-3 weeks. When I finally got it the thing already had problems right out of the box. The latch wouldn't hold the lid at all and the hard drive made a loud chirping noise. Not good. Arrrgh!! And I waited so long for it to arrive. But I decide to call AppleCare anyway. I didn't really have to put up much of a fight for this one. They offered a complete replacement for me, after giving me instructions on where to go to print out a box label to have it shipped back. Awesome.

So after about another two weeks I get my replacement PowerBook. This one is much better. But problems start popping up after a few months. The first thing that starts to happen is the notorious wrist area corrosion on the aluminum enclosure of the PowerBook. It started off with tiny holes but gradually got worse. Before I knew it the whole left side of my PowerBook, along the wrist area, was spattered with considerably big holes. So off I went to the retail Apple store to report my problem. I was ready to argue about it... but to my surprise the Genius said he'd take it and send it in for repairs.

I was a little skeptical at first, because this Genius was sort of young and might've been a trainee or something. And I read a lot about how others got turned down when asked to get the case replaced for the corrosion issue. So I knew something was fishy. Well, my fears became a reality when I got a voicemail from AppleCare stating that my repair was placed on hold because it was considered cosmetic damage. I call them up and kindly explain to them that the Genius at the Apple store specifically told me that they'd get it replaced. He responded by telling me that normally they wouldn't repair that sort of thing, but since it was a mistake on the Genius's part they'd repair it anyway. So after I heard that I let out a sigh of relief.

So after a week I get my PowerBook with a new enclosure. And this time the corrosion is gone for good. And it's still not back even after a year of use. So apparently it was a defect in the way the earlier cases were constructed, and not just regular cosmetic wear and tear. Go figure. Just when I thought I was in the clear my sleep light dies out on me. Luckily this happens right before my 1-year warranty ends. So I managed to get that replaced for free.

Well my warranty ends and I wish I can say that my troubles did too. Alas they've still stuck with this cursed PowerBook. This time it's the hard drive. The 80GB BTO hard drive for the PowerBook died out on me. Luckily I managed to back everything up before it went completely (thanks to SMART status warnings). But still, for a PowerBook which I never dropped or violently shook in any way, I was kind of disappointed about the hard drive dying out on me. Oh well, I guess that's just the way it is sometimes.

Let me tell you, installing a new hard drive on a 12-inch PowerBook is a HUGE pain. I managed to snap the "buckle" for the PowerBook's keyboard ribbon, but I managed to piece it together and it seems to be working fine now. I also managed to crack the joints of the underlying "scissor" mechanism of my F2 key, while trying to snap it back on after reassembling the keyboard. So it's not as springy as it should be. So a $9 replacement from pbparts.com is in the mail now to take care of that. SOOOOO hopefully after installing THAT... my PowerBook should be fine again.

::crosses fingers::

Well, sorry for writing a novel but that's pretty much all the problems I've had with all the Apple computers I've owned. I guess it serves me right for not buying AppleCare. Although I'd still much rather get a higher spec system without AppleCare over a lower one with it. I don't know what the quality of the desktop line of Macs are right now, but right now I have to say that I'm a little disappointed with the quality of Apple's current laptops. I really hope they do a better job of designing better ones in the future. Otherwise I'll probably either look into getting a desktop model or a... *gasp* PeeCee. I hope it won't come to that though.

PS: Great website, btw, justinhale. :-)

[ericssonboi]

What i don't understand is..
If Apple claims that you have water damage to your PB, why did it still work?
Obviously the damage was done from before...
OR you intentionally spilled coke in the optical drive to have your computer replaced by a new Intel M Powerbook

[goMac]

They've done this to me to. My Powerbook had several major issues and I never spilled anything on it but they claimed it had water damage. They fixed it anyway, but now anytime I call them I get a talk about "well, we fixed you Powerbook that time, but it had water damage" with an implied you're lucky we fixed it. Kind of annoying as I don't like being accused of being a bad Powerbook owner and I didn't spill anything, but meh, could be worse.

[brent0saurus]

okay. So instead of everyone whining (i'm not trying to be mean, i'm just angry too) in this forum about how much apple' service sucks, let's all write them a letter. A long letter of all of our bad experiences. Because it really is ridiculous. AppleCare costs about 350 dollars (if i remember correctly) for a notebook. And i think 150 for a desktop? Eitherway, that's insane!!! The service should be waaayyyy better for that price.
I have a friend that i recently converted to apple and when he went to buy his 12" powerbook, he refused to get applecare even though the sales rep was pushing it on him because he has a camera (he's a photographer) that he pays 50 dollars a year for a warrantee on, that if ANYTHING goes wrong with it, they replace it, or fix it. And i mean ANYTHING. He said even if it's the consumer's fault, they replace. So to him, AppleCare was not worth it.
Now, i'm not asking for that much of a warrantee because computers are sensitive and if you drop it off a cliff, it's your own fault. But the service should be better for 300 dollars! It's absurd!
and whoever suggested to write a letter is the best suggestion anyone has offered! But we should ALL collaboratively write a letter to apple.
We pay good money and should get what we pay for.
it's as simple as that.

EDIT:
and someone wrote that they know someone in the news or media or something? i can't find the post now for some reason but maybe we could use that.
i'm serious. If we can have an article in a news paper or even on TV!!!! then that would be so awesome.
I think part of the problem is the ipod....Apple has gotten HUGE and now they don't care so much, or they just have too much to deal with. Or maybe i just don't know what i'm talking about but it seems like smaller companies are usually good to their customers and when they get bigger they start to care less.

So seriously, let's do something! Let's write a letter and/or put something in the newspaper like, "APPLE CUSTOMERS DISSATISFIED" and we could talk about the outrageous prices for extended warrantees and how applecare doesn't even treat us well. And then on top of that, if you dont' want to wait in line, you need to pay 100 dollars per year for PROCARE! UGHHH!!!!!! So yeah, i know i'm saying htis a lot but....
LET'S ALL WRITE A LETTER AND/OR GET IN THE NEWSPAPER!!

[olePigeon]

This is weird because I've had nothing but stellar service with Apple both at home and at work.