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mac128k-1984 · 02:19 PM

Events out of my control are forcing me to sell my fairly new dodge dakota and buy another more efficient car.

My company is relocating and while I'm able to take the subway to work today, I'll have to commute 50 miles to the new location. (25 miles one way, round trip 50) once we relocate.

The truck is getting maybe 14mpg on the highway and I need something that I can afford to drive (and have some cargo carrying capability).

I have two cars on my short list
The dodge caliber which has a rated 26mpg on the highway (the 2.0liter engine) and
the Honda Element which has a rated 24mpg for the highway.

A tiny car isn't feasible as I'll need to be able to fit into the backsit two baby girls and a baby carriage plus assorted baby stuff (in the trunk/rear of the car). The Element will excel at this but I think the caliber will be manageable.

Thoughts opinions. I've been happy with my dodge and my hope would be that the caliber would be of the same quality but the element's track record and Honda's reputation make it a serious contender.

I really hate to sell the truck, but I don't see gas prices going down and now that I'll be driving a lot of miles...

stevesnj · Jul 13, 2006, 02:23 PM

Toyota Echo/ Corolla

residentEvil · Jul 13, 2006, 02:27 PM

$80/barrel is the estimated trade price for later next week. i can't wait for my $3.29/gallon to go to close to if not over $4.

/OT

Caliber is a good choice. Drove one two weeks ago, not too bad. Don't like the cockpit, but it held 4 people and 4 sets of golf clubs.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Toyota Echo/ Corolla

Echo doesn't fit his requirements...

autos.msn.com reports the caliber getting 26mpg city and 30-32 highway. This sounds like a good fit for you.

Landos Mustache · Jul 13, 2006, 02:28 PM

You're thinking about an American car over an Asian one? Are you bonkers?

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

You're thinking about an American car over an Asian one? Are you bonkers?

How about taking a break from your usual America-bashing and suggest a car to fit his needs?

Landos Mustache · Jul 13, 2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

How about taking a break from your usual America-bashing and suggest a car to fit his needs?

How about taking a break from playing internet police?

Personally I thought a car that fits his needs would include reliable. Thanks for telling me it is not the case.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

How about taking a break from playing internet police?

Personally I thought a car that fits his needs would include reliable. Thanks for telling me it is not the case.

See previous comment on America-bashing.

mac128k-1984 · Jul 13, 2006, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

You're thinking about an American car over an Asian one? Are you bonkers?

I've had very good luck with American cars and the caliber is a car that was co-designed by mitsubishi and Hyundai. That CVT transmission has me a little freaked out too. I prefer the good old fashioned transmission that contains gears. At least the 5 speed tranny is available, though I've not had good luck in locating one in the various dealership inventories.

As for the Honda, many of the US Hondas are actually made in the US.

Both the element and caliber are highly rated at edmunds.com but the edge goes to the honda by a fairly large margin. Consumer reports also has glowing remarks for the element.
The Caliber is cheaper and has better potential gas mileage. The problem is, will it feel cheaper? I've not owned one but I've had friends that had the dodge neon and what a dog of a car. This caliber is replacing the neon, so I'm not sure if its of the same quality.

Landos Mustache · Jul 13, 2006, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

See previous comment on America-bashing.

Ok I get it. you can't say anything negative about american products without American bashing. Nice shield you try to hide behind.

And see my previous comment about playing mod.

zerostar · Jul 13, 2006, 02:45 PM

The element is a fine truck, if you like the styling and interior (which many people don't) you will love owning this vehicle! The edmunds reviews are great too.

I think the caliper is fugly, I would get a Mazda 3 5-door over that. Only $17K and gets 26/32 and will fit everything just fine.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Ok I get it. you can't say anything negative about american products without American bashing. Nice shield you try to hide behind.

And see my previous comment about playing mod.

You have a pattern of bashing America. Someone mentions they're considering an American car. You suggest that all American cars are unreliable, even brand new ones with no data to base your statement on. You've contributed nothing to the OP.

OT: Test drive anything you can get your hands on! That's probably the best way to tell if it will feel cheap, or comfortable. If a dealer knows you're serious about buying a car, they'll let you take it on your own for quite a while. Test a variety or vehicles to find what you like, and drive them on the highway, in town, etc. Play around with moving and putting down seats to see how easy it is. Take a baby seat and see how easy it is to strap in. Take the stroller and see how easily it fits. If you're going to buy a car, you want to make sure it's something you like and something that will fit your needs. Have fun!

mac128k-1984 · Jul 13, 2006, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by zerostar

TI think the caliper is fugly, I would get a Mazda 3 5-door over that. Only $17K and gets 26/32 and will fit everything just fine.

My only issue with Mazda is their financial difficulties and I 'm concerned that quality will be sacrified in the cost cutting efforts. Also I don't have a mazda dealership near where I live. I don't want to drive 40 minutes, since I'll be going to the dealership for service (oil changes or fixing issues).

stevesnj · Jul 13, 2006, 03:16 PM

I agree, I have friends with american cars and they say they will never buy them again, they switched to Honda/Toyota etc, the reliability, fit and finish and overall quality is more than they thought, after years of owning American myself I never have gone so long without a trip to the mechanic, now i just take mine for scheduled maintenance, i never had that luxury with American cars I owned.

Landos Mustache · Jul 13, 2006, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

You have a pattern of bashing America. Someone mentions they're considering an American car. You suggest that all American cars are unreliable, even brand new ones with no data to base your statement on. You've contributed nothing to the OP.

Ya well you have a pattern of getting neck deep in any gay topic, making rude "I know the truth" remarks about religion and playing mod. So watch what you say.

Landos Mustache · Jul 13, 2006, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by stevesnj

I agree, I have friends with american cars and they say they will never buy them again, they switched to Honda/Toyota etc, the reliability, fit and finish and overall quality is more than they thought, after years of owning American myself I never have gone so long without a trip to the mechanic, now i just take mine for scheduled maintenance, i never had that luxury with American cars I owned.

Yep. I don't have an American car but everyone I know that does has it fall apart and the nest time they end up getting a japanese car which they absolutely love as it doesn't break as often if at all.

olePigeon · Jul 13, 2006, 03:30 PM

If you need cargo, how about a wagon of some sort? Dodge and Suburu make very capable AWD wagons with nice cargo space.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Yep. I don't have an American car but everyone I know that does has it fall apart and the nest time they end up getting a japanese car which they absolutely love as it doesn't break as often if at all.

Good job with the 'everyone I know has/does something' fallacy.
My family has owned nothing but American cars. We have few to no problems.

If you need cargo, how about a wagon of some sort? Dodge and Suburu make very capable AWD wagons with nice cargo space.

Good point on the Subaru, that could be a good potential car. I suppose the inhibiting factor would be location of a Subaru dealership.

His Dudeness · Jul 13, 2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

You're thinking about an American car over an Asian one? Are you bonkers?

What's wrong with American cars? I'll put my Durango against any asian built SUV on the market.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

What's wrong with American cars? I'll put my Durango against any asian built SUV on the market.

Sorry. You don't know it, but your Durango has fallen apart.

His Dudeness · Jul 13, 2006, 03:40 PM

I would go with the Dodge. I have five Dodge's in my driveway and haven't had any problems with any of them, except the Neon which we bought used. Someone's else's problems...

I will never ever buy a Honda. I hate hate Honda/Acura. I've test driven many of them and am not impressed at all. I don't like Toyota/Lexus or Nissan. However, the Infinit Q45, M45, and G35 are bad ass cars. If I only had the money...

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

I would go with the Dodge. I have five Dodge's in my driveway and haven't had any problems with any of them, except the Neon which we bought used. Someone's else's problems...

Surely you're mistaken! You better go check on all of your cars. By now they must be in pieces all over your yard after exploding in succession solely because of the country in which they were designed/built.

Landos Mustache · Jul 13, 2006, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Good job with the 'everyone I know has/does something' fallacy.
My family has owned nothing but American cars. We have few to no problems.

What would you like? A certificate of authenticity? What if Jesus told you they were unreliable?

memento · Jul 13, 2006, 03:46 PM

I like the element, but the mileage is disappointing. How about a Subaru impreza wagon? I LOVE the mazda 3 5-door. I think you have a lot of options on the table. Anything else that's a requirement? price cap?

sek929 · Jul 13, 2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by His Dudeness

What's wrong with American cars? I'll put my Durango against any asian built SUV on the market.

Durango, built off of Dakota the worst rated truck for reliability.

Lemme give you a small peice of evidence.

I was shopping for a small truck, here's some of the prices.

Tacoma, 80,000 miles - 12,500
GMC Sonoma 60,000 miles - 10,000
Ford Ranger 40,000 miles - 9,000

aaaaand

Dakota 50,000 miles - 5400

That's right, go look at used Dakotas and Durangos and see what the lots are selling them for. Dollars to donuts its far less than any other vehicle in its class, there is a reason for that.

To the OP

I'd say get a 4-cylinder Toyota Tacoma quad cab, rated 21 mpg. If you really want to skimp on gas a small import wagon (think subaru, mazda) would also be great.

I respect Dodge cars to a certain extent, and the larger trucks...but Dakota (and it's brothers) is a POS. (and a gas sucking POS at that).

seanyepez · Jul 13, 2006, 03:53 PM

I would recommend the Toyota Prius, but it doesn't seem to fit your space needs. I consistently get about 55 miles per gallon.

sek929 · Jul 13, 2006, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Surely you're mistaken! You better go check on all of your cars. By now they must be in pieces all over your yard after exploding in succession solely because of the country in which they were designed/built.

I get your point, but Dodge cars are usually pretty good. I have an Intrepid with 165K that purrs like a kitten, and my roomate's Dodge Stealth has 195K miles on it and runs fine.

But when it comes to US vs the Asian automakers, we are at least 10 years behind them. I know the US will bounce back (they have to) but right now people pay on average $5,000 more for Toyota Camry than other models. Toyota can charge that because people don't mind paying more for a superior product.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

I get your point, but Dodge cars are usually pretty good. I have an Intrepid with 165K that purrs like a kitten, and my roomate's Dodge Stealth has 195K miles on it and runs fine.

But when it comes to US vs the Asian automakers, we are at least 10 years behind them. I know the US will bounce back (they have to) but right now people pay on average $5,000 more for Toyota Camry than other models. Toyota can charge that because people don't mind paying more for a superior product.

Good point.

sek929 · Jul 13, 2006, 03:59 PM

Everything coming out of Hyundai is pure gold right now, might wanna check out their SUVs.

At any rate the OP has alot of homework to do

greenamp · Jul 13, 2006, 04:01 PM

Element over the calliber hands down.

Now, you may also consider something like a Toyota Matrix aswell. Gets better mileage (30-36 hwy, it's a Corolla basically) and has quite a bit of room and functionality aswell. They even make a 4wd model.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by greenamp

Element over the calliber hands down.

Now, you may also consider something like a Toyota Matrix aswell. Gets better mileage (30-36 hwy, it's a Corolla basically) and has quite a bit of room and functionality aswell.

I always liked the Matrix's looks better than its Pontiac Vibe counterpart.

scottiB · Jul 13, 2006, 04:05 PM

Suggestions: Mazda5 or MPV (which are on radical discount--btw, Mazda is fine financially); Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix; Ford Focus Wagon (I own a 2002 and get 30MPG); new Toyota Rav4; new VW Rabbit (Golf).

These are off the top of my head. Nice thing about the Mazdas are dual sliding doors on both models.

Go for some test drives; have some fun.

scottiB · Jul 13, 2006, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by seanyepez

I would recommend the Toyota Prius, but it doesn't seem to fit your space needs. I consistently get about 55 miles per gallon.

OT: Wow, haven't seen you around for a while. Cheers.

Jul 13, 2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

My company is relocating and while I'm able to take the subway to work today, I'll have to commute 50 miles to the new location. (25 miles one way, round trip 50) once we relocate.

The truck is getting maybe 14mpg on the highway and I need something that I can afford to drive (and have some cargo carrying capability).

Hmm... may I offer two suggestions:

1. Move closers to work.
2. Barring that, if you have the parking space for it, why not keep the truck for the family outings where you need the space, but get a second car - a small fuel efficient car like an echo for commuting to work.

cjrivera · Jul 13, 2006, 04:10 PM

Mercury Mariner Hybrid? 33/29mpg

http://www.mercuryvehicles.com/marinerhybrid/

sek929 · 04:40 PM

Hybrid's gas mileage estimates vary widely, I'd say you would see 20 highway 28 city

residentEvil · Jul 13, 2006, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Durango, built off of Dakota the worst rated truck for reliability.

you, i think, brought this up before. the original durango had the same chassis, etc as the dakota (1999 model I believe). the new style durango (2004 and on) does not.

my 2004 durango is nothing like a) the 1999 dakota also in my driveway, b) the red 2004 dakota regular cab and silver 2004 extended cab across the street, nor the c) 2005 dakota extended cab next door. my wheelbase and steering radius aren't even close to those dakotas, nor is the wheel width and cab width. i'm larger in all aspects to the dakota and have a smaller steering radious (sharper turns).

now my friends 2000 durango and the 1999 dakota in my driveway are almost identical inside and out (cockpit, trim, grill, wheelbase, turning radious, etc), sans the obvious passenger compartment

/OT

sek929 · Jul 13, 2006, 04:14 PM

Thanks resident evil, I was not aware of that

typoon · Jul 13, 2006, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

Events out of my control are forcing me to sell my fairly new dodge dakota and buy another more efficient car.

My company is relocating and while I'm able to take the subway to work today, I'll have to commute 50 miles to the new location. (25 miles one way, round trip 50) once we relocate.

The truck is getting maybe 14mpg on the highway and I need something that I can afford to drive (and have some cargo carrying capability).

I have two cars on my short list
The dodge caliber which has a rated 26mpg on the highway (the 2.0liter engine) and
the Honda Element which has a rated 24mpg for the highway.

A tiny car isn't feasible as I'll need to be able to fit into the backsit two baby girls and a baby carriage plus assorted baby stuff (in the trunk/rear of the car). The Element will excel at this but I think the caliber will be manageable.

Thoughts opinions. I've been happy with my dodge and my hope would be that the caliber would be of the same quality but the element's track record and Honda's reputation make it a serious contender.

I really hate to sell the truck, but I don't see gas prices going down and now that I'll be driving a lot of miles...

What about the Honda CRV? It's a mini SUV that gets like 30 MPG Same with the Toyota Rav 4 or anything else in that class.

Also with Hybrids it has been shown that it takes a long time to make back any of the savings that you would get on gas.

scottiB · Jul 13, 2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Hybrid's gas mileage estimates vary widely, I'd say you would see 20 city 28 highway.

Yep, and if it's for majority highway driving, a hybrid's not going to help. The electric part kicks in during acceleration not in cruising--which is why city ratings are usually higher than highway.

(This is not directed to sek929--who, I'm sure, knew this).

Landos Mustache · Jul 13, 2006, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Durango, built off of Dakota the worst rated truck for reliability.

Isn't the Neon the worst car in terms of problems since the gremlin?

scottiB · Jul 13, 2006, 04:19 PM

If the OP can wait until the fall, the Element should be getting a 5-speed auto (which should help fuel eco--depending on how tall the gear), but it's also getting a more powerful engine, which may negate it.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Hybrid's gas mileage estimates vary widely, I'd say you would see 20 city 28 highway.

But wouldn't city be better?

sek929 · Jul 13, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by typoon

Also with Hybrids it has been shown that it takes a long time to make back any of the savings that you would get on gas.

Bingo.

And Lando, AFAIK the Neon's worst attribute was its crash safety (this was back in the early model years) but dodge tends to build a pretty solid car, maybe no the newest tech involved, but tried and true mechanical reliability.

Mac128k, stay away from all things VW, trust me.

residentEvil · Jul 13, 2006, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Thanks resident evil, I was not aware of that

i still believe though, the chrylser PT cruiser is based on the neon. i get yelled at about that all the time. (if you couldn't guess, my neighborhood is mostly dodge/chrysler and all my engineering friends are dodge too).

i still say it is, no matter what they say

sek929 · Jul 13, 2006, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

But wouldn't city be better?

EPA estimates have the vehicle drive on a dyno with no wind resistance and steady slow acceleration.

In other words not real world situations.

There was an article in Motor Trend a few months back on EPA testing. Their studies showed almost 30% difference between hybrid real world and estimated mileage. With normal cars hovering around a 10-15% difference.

I'm not quite sure why (if you were looking for a definitive answer) but it seems we are being led on a bit with how efficient hybrids are.

Gossamer · Jul 13, 2006, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

EPA estimates have the vehicle drive on a dyno with no wind resistance and steady slow acceleration.

In other words not real world situations.

There was an article in Motor Trend a few months back on EPA testing. Their studies showed almost 30% difference between hybrid real world and estimated mileage. With normal cars hovering around a 10-15% difference.

I'm not quite sure why (if you were looking for a definitive answer) but it seems we are being led on a bit with how efficient hybrids are.

Sorry, I meant wouldn't the city ratings be higher than highway? You gave 28hwy/20 city, but hybrids usually get better milage in the city due to more use of the electric motor.

sek929 · Jul 13, 2006, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Sorry, I meant wouldn't the city ratings be higher than highway? You gave 28hwy/20 city, but hybrids usually get better milage in the city due to more use of the electric motor.

d'oh, fixing that now...

simonjames · Jul 13, 2006, 05:32 PM

Get yourself a Honda Accord - good quality/price/looks

mac128k-1984 · Jul 13, 2006, 08:01 PM

Well I just came back from the Honda dealership and it was an enlightening experience.

But first let me address some of the other posts.

Originally Posted by hayesk

Hmm... may I offer two suggestions:

1. Move closers to work.
2. Barring that, if you have the parking space for it, why not keep the truck for the family outings where you need the space, but get a second car - a small fuel efficient car like an echo for commuting to work.

1. Not feasible
2. We already have two car payments and with my wife out of work (2 babies). We could not afford a third car

Originally Posted by typoon

What about the Honda CRV? It's a mini SUV that gets like 30 MPG Same with the Toyota Rav 4 or anything else in that class.

Also with Hybrids it has been shown that it takes a long time to make back any of the savings that you would get on gas.

That is an option, I'd have to compare the cubic space available with those against the element and caliber

Originally Posted by scottiB

If the OP can wait until the fall, the Element should be getting a 5-speed auto (which should help fuel eco--depending on how tall the gear), but it's also getting a more powerful engine, which may negate it.

That also is a definite possibility. I have time on my hands and I can wait.

Ok from the Honda dealership. They offered for my truck 4,0000 under kelly blue book. I was shocked, they also were not willing to budge on the msrp of the element. Basically they were tying to sell me a Honda Element for 410+ a month. After an hour negotiating they gave me an additional 500 bucks.

I'm not sure if the 4,000 under Kelly Blue Book (the truck is low mileage and in excellent condition) is the result of them trying to low ball me because Honda Elements are selling so well. Or rather the case that 8 cylinder trucks are not worth that much any more either because of the gas prices and/or because Dodge flooded the market the trucks.

The think that the sales man failed to realize is that I'm doing this solely for the gas mileage and if the savings in gas is offset by a higher monthly car payment it does not make sense to buy it.

Since my company is not moving for a little while (people start relocating in November) and I really don't have to sell, I can pick and choose. I may even put the truck up on craigslist.

That being the case I'm on the fence as to whether I should make the effort to head down to the dodge dealership. I believe they will be more motivated and I may get a better deal. I'm not sure I want a caliber.