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1/3 UK on the dole?
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Mac Elite
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All men are created equal, but what they do after that point puts them on a sliding scale.
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Mac Enthusiast
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It's called a big brother welfare state.
Reward failure and punish success.
Hey, we'll send y'all some freeloaders for some of your successful, productive citizens.
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Shut up and eat your paisley.
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All men are created equal, but what they do after that point puts them on a sliding scale.
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The second one would be healthier. The first... creepy.
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Mac Elite
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it's not necessarily on the dole - ie unemployed.
For lots of people they are better off being in a low income job and receiving state benefits. If they got a job where they received a bit more money - they'd actually be worse off because they'd no longer be eligible for benefit.
I think the idea of it is to maintain a certain level of living for lower paid people, but has backfired in that they are better off being lower paid.
There was some furore a few years back over a family on a TV reality show called "Wife Swap", the family had ~6 kids and lived entirely off the state.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Originally Posted by moodymonster
it's not necessarily on the dole - ie unemployed.
For lots of people they are better off being in a low income job and receiving state benefits. If they got a job where they received a bit more money - they'd actually be worse off because they'd no longer be eligible for benefit.
I think the idea of it is to maintain a certain level of living for lower paid people, but has backfired in that they are better off being lower paid.
There was some furore a few years back over a family on a TV reality show called "Wife Swap", the family had ~6 kids and lived entirely off the state.
Exactly. The same is true of a progressive income tax system. If you're just below the level for the next bracket, a small raise could actually hurt you rather than helping you.
Yep, those 'liberal' ideas sure do increase the upwards mobility of the working poor!
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2003
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In the UK the tax system is divided into bands - you only get taxed for the amounts inside each band ie
>~£5000 - ~£7000 is @ 10%
then you move into the main tax band
~£7000 - ~£35000 is @ 22%
earnings over £35,000 @ 40%
so you don't get blanket taxed at a higher rate, but it does make it a little less exciting when you get paid more and the extra money is in a higher band. (apologies is advance if I've got the wrong end of the stick here, and this is all common knowledge).
As an aside, back in the 70s the top band was 98%.
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Originally Posted by moodymonster
In the UK the tax system is divided into bands - you only get taxed for the amounts inside each band.
It's the same here.
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Mac Elite
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and you've also got National Insurance @ ~8% - that comes in ~£4300 and above.
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Clinically Insane
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It's a marxist's wet dream - the whole system moving towards everyone being dependent on the state in some form or another.
I forget. Do we have any marxists in the current UK government?
---
BTW, US peeps. You can earn up to something like $100,000 and still qualify for state handouts if you've got kids.
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Mac Elite
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As far as I'm aware, there isn't a limit on your income with regard to child benefit payments. As soon as you get one - you're eligible, regardless of income.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by moodymonster
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a limit on your income with regard to child benefit payments. As soon as you get one - you're eligible, regardless of income.
I'd heard of people on £60k getting it, but didn't realise that there's no real upper limit.
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Mac Elite
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lots of countries have incentives for their population to have children.
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Clinically Insane
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Oh. No no no. I think I was on about family tax credit. I think.
Buggered if I know. Government doesn't give me owt (except a headache) so I haven't looked into all of Gordy's twists and turns.
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Mac Elite
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oh, right...
I think they just complicate it all to employ people to run the system.
slightly unrelated, but I did read recently that that new licensing thingy-ma-bob for clubs, pubs etc they've introduced actually didn't raise enough revenue to cover the cost of adminstrating the licenses leaving a £97 million hole. Therefore, what's the point of having a 'tax' that doesn't even cover the cost of its own admin.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by moodymonster
Therefore, what's the point of having a 'tax' that doesn't even cover the cost of its own admin.
Control.
"You cannot <whatever> without our permission."
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
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Mac Elite
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I think it was more a knee jerk reaction to getting clubs etc to contribute toward the cost of policing the streets when their clientele leave. Typically, they didn't think it through.
I don't think there is some kind of over arching machiavellian/big brother thinking behind them. I do think there is a streak of authoritarianism a mile wide through our incumbent rulers, but I think this is more down to a lack of introspection on their part than a concerted effort. I think they are ideologically driven, ultimately with good intentions - and are blinded by this with regard to negative outcomes of what may come of their decisions.
Or maybe one of us is giving them too much credit
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Originally Posted by Mark Larr
It's called a big brother welfare state.
Reward failure and punish success.
Hey, we'll send y'all some freeloaders for some of your successful, productive citizens.
Well if the Dems and President Bush have their way the US will soon be just as bad with all these Illegals getting services for nothing.
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"Evil is Powerless If the Good are Unafraid." -Ronald Reagan
Apple and Intel, the dawning of a NEW era.
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Mac Elite
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They pretty much do now.
Grady Hospital is going broke.
Peachcare™ is broke.
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All men are created equal, but what they do after that point puts them on a sliding scale.
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Mac Elite
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Originally Posted by typoon
Well if the Dems and President Bush have their way the US will soon be just as bad with all these Illegals getting services for nothing.
Counterbalanced by those temporary legal immigrants who pay SS taxes for nothing.
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