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Face Ache · Jan 16, 2009, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Google Ethiopia Flight 961 video and you'll see an Airbus breakup during a water landing

That was a Boeing 767.

Cheap American planes.

dcmacdaddy · Jan 16, 2009, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

The guy's resumé and many years of experience are probably what caused this to go as smoothly as possible.

I am quite sure that there is a considerable number of pilots flying all over the country whose attempt to produce the same result would've ended in tragedy.

It's not like what this guy did was easy, you know.

Originally Posted by tooki

Why? For doing his job?

Do you have any reason to think another pilot wouldn't have done as good a job under the same circumstances? Pilots are well trained for all these situations, so they'll all do pretty much the same thing in a given situation.

Originally Posted by osiris

No doubt. An inexperienced pilot may not have handled the cross winds as well, or when splashing down may not have been able to handle the drag from the engines, etc, etc. This was a great pilot.

I would argue this pilot was special in his skills. Not only did he have decades of experience flying both military and commercial aircraft but he was also an accomplished glider pilot. From what I have read of the likely cause of the accident (twin engine failure) and eyewitness reports of the landing, the pilot seemed to quickly turn his 80-ton jet into a glider and flew it as he would a glider. I think that ability--to know how to fly gliders in addition to powered aircraft--is what made this particular pilot special.

As for all pilots being calm, rational flying automatons: I think that is more than a bit of generalization. Granted, many, perhaps even a majority, of pilots fall into the calm-cool-collected category but certainly not all of them. My late uncle was senior co-pilot with Delta for decades (with a background as a Naval flight instructor) and he would tell a story of the time his pilot freaked out* when landing a loaded 757 in Mexico and he had to forcibly take control of the plane to land it safely.
*A small personal aircraft had taken off directly into their flight path when they were on final approach. It hits the underside of their 757 and crashed to the ground killing the three occupants of the small plane. My uncle landed the 757 safely and as a reward the Mexican government gave him and his pilot three days in a Mexican jail as a result.

Shaddim · Jan 16, 2009, 07:15 PM

The guy deserves a medal (and a big %^$^ing raise).

It's very obvious that it was a combination of skill, grace, and blind luck.

angelmb · Jan 17, 2009, 03:08 AM

It's a Bird… It's a Plane… It's Superman.

starman · Jan 23, 2009, 12:20 PM

Pulling the plane out of the water.

http://reasonpad.com/?p=1903

Spheric Harlot · Jan 23, 2009, 05:50 PM

onto craigslist as a fixer-upper, local pickup only.

Laminar · Jan 23, 2009, 06:48 PM

Well there's your problem.

Art Vandelay · Jan 23, 2009, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Well there's your problem.

Are you being serious? If yes, it's unknown when that damage occurred. Most likely it's from impact with the water.

starman · Jan 23, 2009, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

Are you being serious? If yes, it's unknown when that damage occurred. Most likely it's from impact with the water.

*facepalm*

Railroader · Jan 23, 2009, 07:34 PM

It's all ball bearings these days.

chabig · Jan 24, 2009, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

From what I have read of the likely cause of the accident (twin engine failure) and eyewitness reports of the landing, the pilot seemed to quickly turn his 80-ton jet into a glider and flew it as he would a glider. I think that ability--to know how to fly gliders in addition to powered aircraft--is what made this particular pilot special.

We all know how to glide our airplanes. This guy did a good job in the fortuitous circumstances in which he was placed, but I think any of us would have done as well. (speaking as a former USAF test pilot, fighter pilot, glider pilot, airline pilot, and airline flight instructor)

ghporter · Jan 24, 2009, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

We all know how to glide our airplanes. This guy did a good job in the fortuitous circumstances in which he was placed, but I think any of us would have done as well. (speaking as a former USAF test pilot, fighter pilot, glider pilot, airline pilot, and airline flight instructor)

As long as the "us" you're talking about is the group of former USAF test pilots, fighter pilots, glider pilots, airline pilots and airline flight instructors, yeah, any of you could have done that.

I think a good bit of his success with planting the plane (pretty much) where he wanted to was his experience flying those JP-4 driven bricks known as F-4s. I love the things, but their glide like rocks.

chabig · Jan 24, 2009, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

As long as the "us" you're talking about is the group of former USAF test pilots, fighter pilots, glider pilots, airline pilots and airline flight instructors, yeah, any of you could have done that.

Good point Glenn. But I do teach airline pilots and that was the main point of my comment. By the time a pilot reaches the airlines, they usually have experience in a wide variety of airplanes, and every airplane is a glider when the engines are at idle. To me, the "miracle" is that they had a place to put the airplane down, not any particular skill of the pilot--which is not to slight him in any way, although it does sound like I am. Put that same guy over a densely populated city with no place to land and the situation would have been far different.

ghporter · Jan 24, 2009, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

Good point Glenn. But I do teach airline pilots and that was the main point of my comment. By the time a pilot reaches the airlines, they usually have experience in a wide variety of airplanes, and every airplane is a glider when the engines are at idle. To me, the "miracle" is that they had a place to put the airplane down, not any particular skill of the pilot--which is not to slight him in any way, although it does sound like I am. Put that same guy over a densely populated city with no place to land and the situation would have been far different.

It seems to me that the particular way he used a combination of flare and aerobraking made that touchdown pretty out of the ordinary. Skill or happenstance? He managed to preserve the engines as much as possible and still keep the plane in a workable attitude, made the touch feel like a "rough landing," and didn't even have time to close the air vents... Pretty cool, I think.

chabig · Jan 24, 2009, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

It seems to me that the particular way he used a combination of flare and aerobraking made that touchdown pretty out of the ordinary. Skill or happenstance? He managed to preserve the engines as much as possible and still keep the plane in a workable attitude, made the touch feel like a "rough landing," and didn't even have time to close the air vents... Pretty cool, I think.

Well you've got to believe me when I say that landing on water is the same as putting it down on land, except you do it with the landing gear up. Otherwise, no difference in technique. Again, he did a great job, but he's no superpilot.

ghporter · Jan 24, 2009, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

Well you've got to believe me when I say that landing on water is the same as putting it down on land, except you do it with the landing gear up. Otherwise, no difference in technique. Again, he did a great job, but he's no superpilot.

Just in the right place at the right time and as cool headed as we'd like ALL pilots to be. I'll settle for that-and so will a whole lot of people who didn't die, their families and friends, etc. Yep, good enough.

glideslope · Jan 24, 2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

Well you've got to believe me when I say that landing on water is the same as putting it down on land, except you do it with the landing gear up. Otherwise, no difference in technique. Again, he did a great job, but he's no superpilot.

Perhaps not. But he did have to make a split second call as to try Teterorough. You can see in the flight plan the brief look at Teterborough. The CVR confirms he eyeballed it and went for the Hudson in under 10 sec. Let's not forget this was an A320 with a "Ditch Switch" closing off engine bleed air valves that could allow water to enter quicker.

A failed attempt for Teterborough would have been a fireball.

I'm just glad he was not Navy.

chabig · Jan 24, 2009, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by glideslope

Let's not forget this was an A320 with a "Ditch Switch" closing off engine bleed air valves that could allow water to enter quicker.

I fly the A320 and am familiar with the ditching switch. It closes all of the holes below the waterline.

Shaddim · Jan 25, 2009, 01:37 AM

You're the first pilot I've met who wasn't impressed with the guy's skill (and luck). I suppose that makes 1 out of about 20, including the C.O. of the local Air Force base.

ghporter · Jan 25, 2009, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

You're the first pilot I've met who wasn't impressed with the guy's skill (and luck). I suppose that makes 1 out of about 20, including the C.O. of the local Air Force base.

Any of those other pilots also test pilots, instructor pilots and all the other things chabig is or has been? That's a pretty exclusive club ya know.

I met some really incredible fighter pilots and some pretty incredible "heavy" pilots through my Air Force career, and frankly the one that most impressed me with his piloting prowess was some unnamed captain that put down a WC-130 at Keesler with one engine STOPPED (not freewheeling, not feathered, stopped dead). He did a bunch of orbits to dump fuel and then put the wheels down at the inside end of the overrun, pitched the aircraft WAY up to aerobrake (instead of reversing props to brake) and took about 2/3 of Keesler's rather short runway to slow to a near stop. The aircraft sort of floated from that high nose attitude to fairly soft nose gear contact, and then stopped using wheel brakes, at which point the ramp and every door flew open and the whole crew got out FAST well before the fire trucks arrived at the scene. It takes a lot to get those turboprops to not work and making one stop dead must have been pretty spectacular, but the only thing that made the landing look at all scary was how quickly everybody got out...

Shaddim · Jan 25, 2009, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Any of those other pilots also test pilots, instructor pilots and all the other things chabig is or has been? That's a pretty exclusive club ya know.

He's an instructor and we flew to the Alabama game in his Cessna.

That's about all I know.

Oh, once he did mention that he's trained pilots to fly Harriers, but don't have other details.

Chongo · Jan 29, 2009, 11:46 AM

The People's Cube has uncovered the truth.

dcmacdaddy · Jan 29, 2009, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Chongo

The People's Cube has uncovered the truth.
http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images...Plane_News.gif

Normally I hate your posts that link to the People's Cube website but this one was pretty freaking funny, especially the "article" about Kennedy's car being struck by a flock of geese.