[DLQ2006]

Something snapped in me today that I never thought would. I looked out of my window to see my U.S. flag up in my yard because I have a deal with the boyscouts that I pay to put up big flags in my yard on federal holidays and Sept 11th. I then turn on the news and the first thing I hear is that N. Korea claims they have succesfully test fired an underground nuke. However, it looks more like it was just tons of TNT. Some reports say that N.Korea has the delivery methods for such materials that can reach the Continental U.S. and others say it doesn't. Some say they do have some nuclear weapons that they haven't tested yet and other say they don't. Of course, the entire issue is about the Republicans blaming the Democrats and the Clinton adm for giving them 4 billion worth of equipment as well as info on how to build nuclear power plants in exchange for them agreeing to only use it for peaceful purposes but woudn't you know, we were duped. They just used in as a cover for their nuclear weapons program and as a way to aquire the material for the delivery systems. Of course, the Democrats are blaming Bush for not participating in bilateral talks and not doing enough. Like as if even his own party would have been behind him if he acted unilaterally to strike N. Korea much less have the support of the American people behind him. And of course, it's Bush's fault for not engaging in bilateral talks so that his adm could be singularly blamed when the talks fail. It can't possibly be the fault of the little midget dwarf freak for not coming to the table for multilateral talks with other nations in the region that would be affected.

Once again, instead of coming together as a nation to figure out what to do, we are too divided. We are too divided as a nation to take seriously the threat of Islamic global domination by those that believe such domination is a precept of their religion. We are bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq building schools. Our military is tip toeing around the insurgents in Iraq for Rhamadan. Iran and other regimes are openly mocking us while they send their brain washed islamonuts to Iraq to kill our troops. N. Korea is giving us the finger while they keep upping the ante in order to blackmail the world into capitulating even more to them. China won't do anything. Canada and most of Europe won't do anything because they've been too busy for the last 50+ years building up Socialists utopias because why spend their own national treasure on silly things like militaries and national defense when the U.S. will do it. The enlightened ones among us are so enlightened that they can't pick their own side in a fight for their own survival and our nation is tearing itself apart over prisoners in POW camps possibly getting roughed up a bit. The ACLU and like minded groups sue our Govt at every turn because they believe that denying every last illegal muslim immigrant and suspected terrorist the same Constitutional rights and protections given to American citizens equates to stripping U.S. citizens of all their rights and freedom.

For my entire adult life I've been told that most of the world is against us. That Europeans by and large have utter disdain for Americans. That most of Europe wants our bases out of their countries. That they don't need or want us. That Canada is mostly against what we have done regarding the WOT and our other international policies. Everything I've ever heard or read from "moderate muslims" shows that they not only disagree with everything we have done and are doing, but have utter hatred for the U.S.
That the South Koreans by and large hate us and want us out of their country. Yet, the reasons I hear being given for why we can't act militarily against N. Korea is that they would retaliate against S. Korea and could kill millions of them.

Well, the last time I checked, all those countries listed above are filled with plenty of adults. I say screw them! If Democrats and Republicans could stop vying for power long enough to build up our ballistic defense systems, we could defend our own territory very well. I'm not saying to stop acting militarily when it's in our own national interest, just to stop weighing everything we do in terms of how it will affect, piss off, or appease our so called allies. On one hand, they ridicule us for thinking of ourselves as the world's policemen. On the other hand, everytime something goes wrong that makes them worry that their little utopian world might just be threatened, they blame us for not doing more. Then it's the "you are the world's superpower" therefore "you must do something" rationale.

Well, what that translates to in real terms is that it's our loved ones, friends, and neighbors that have go spill their blood. That's it our national treasury that takes the brunt of the cost. And it's always for a very ungrateful world. Well, I've had it. I served in the Air Force for 6 years. I come from a military family. My husband is active duty and would lay down his life for this country in a heartbeat if asked. My sons are teen agers who come from a long line of men that fought in every war this country has fought. Every line in our geneology traces back to those coming over in the 1600's. My sons have lived under the constant reminders that their father is a military man. Their grandfather did 3 tours in Vietnam. Their great grandfather was a pilot in WWll who volunteered to go fight before America was even officially in the war and he was shot down in enemy territory and killed a nazi with his knife. That when this country has gone to war, the men in their family stepped forward. Now I look at my boys and It feels like yesterday that they were born. I've been a patriot all of my life. With their high and tight hair cuts they've been sporting since the age of 3, I've fully expected them to at some point serve their country when they grow up. I now do not believe this country is worth saving. United we stood, divided we are falling. We will get what we have coming in terms of the inevitable nuclear attacks that will kill millions if not tens of millions and at this point I just pray it won't be any of mine.

I thank God every day that we still have the kind of men that are military is made up of. Obviously, in a few years, my sons will have to make their own decisions. However, at this point I will not encourage my boys to join the military and I will try my best to persuade them not to. No, what this country has become is not worth the blood of my boys. If one of them were to be brutally murdered today, their murderer would be treated better than our family would be and venal lawyers would rush in to try every deceptive trick imaginable to set the murderer free . Their death wouldn't make headlines around my state much less national news. So America and the world, you are not worthy of the blood of my sons and of my families sacrifice. If someone like me can be turned into what I've become, then there are probably mothers and fathers all over this country that feel the same way and the world is probably going to one day get what it so richly deserves.

[marden]

Well said. I've sometimes thought that this country has become something I believe wouldn't be worth saving. Screw em. Let em get what they think they want so badly and let em live with the results.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

If one of them were to be brutally murdered today, their murderer would be treated better than our family would be and venal lawyers would rush in to try every deceptive trick imaginable to set the murderer free.

I'm not going to argue against your personal feelings. But I'm reminded that it was John Adams himself, a leader of the revolution and our second president, who once defended eight British soldiers in court. These soldiers had killed five Americans, sending the colonies into an uproar, in an event that was dubbed the 'Boston Massacre.' His actions were, to put it delicately, unpopular at the time. Adams later reflected on it as one of his greatest achievements and one of his proudest moments of service to his country.

That reminds me that it's our appreciation of shared principles and values - such as liberty, due process, freedom of speech - that binds Americans together. I think that's always worth standing up for in whatever way we're capable as individuals, even in the face of great hostility from those who disagree with us.

Anyway, that was a bit clumsy. But I hope I got my point across.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

The enlightened ones among us are so enlightened that they can't pick their own side in a fight for their own survival and our nation is tearing itself apart over prisoners in POW camps possibly getting roughed up a bit. The ACLU and like minded groups sue our Govt at every turn because they believe that denying every last illegal muslim immigrant and suspected terrorist the same Constitutional rights and protections given to American citizens equates to stripping U.S. citizens of all their rights and freedom.

These issues of POWs and torture and terrorist eavesdropping make me sad for America too, but in exactly the opposite way. I see our country as about core values, not gaining a small edge in a conflict.

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

For my entire adult life I've been told that most of the world is against us....
That Europeans by and large have utter disdain for Americans...
That most of Europe wants our bases out of their countries...
That Canada is mostly against what we have done regarding the WOT ...
... muslims... but have utter hatred for the U.S...
That the South Koreans by and large hate us and want us out of their country...

You should probably STOP listening to IDIOTS???
What do you do about your own qualified adult opinion???


PB.

[marden]

Originally Posted by itai195

I'm not going to argue against your personal feelings. But I'm reminded that it was John Adams himself, a leader of the revolution and our second president, who once defended eight British soldiers in court. These soldiers had killed five Americans, sending the colonies into an uproar, in an event that was dubbed the 'Boston Massacre.' His actions were, to put it delicately, unpopular at the time. Adams later reflected on it as one of his greatest achievements and one of his proudest moments of service to his country.

That reminds me that it's our appreciation of shared principles and values - such as liberty, due process, freedom of speech - that binds Americans together. I think that's always worth standing up for in whatever way we're capable as individuals, even in the face of great hostility from those who disagree with us.

Anyway, that was a bit clumsy. But I hope I got my point across.

I understand your point. The story was powerful, in fact. I'm just becoming disillusioned by some of the people here. Maybe if I knew the truth I'd be relieved to find they were mostly non-Americans.

[analogika]

Most of the Americans with brains to match their hearts have long since left this forum, it seems.

[marden]

Originally Posted by analogika

Most of the Americans with brains to match their hearts have long since left this forum, it seems.

If my brains and heart did not match I'd say it was my heart that was too big. I'm too much of a nice guy. A real softie.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by itai195

I'm not going to argue against your personal feelings. But I'm reminded that it was John Adams himself, a leader of the revolution and our second president, who once defended eight British soldiers in court. These soldiers had killed five Americans, sending the colonies into an uproar, in an event that was dubbed the 'Boston Massacre.' His actions were, to put it delicately, unpopular at the time. Adams later reflected on it as one of his greatest achievements and one of his proudest moments of service to his country.

That reminds me that it's our appreciation of shared principles and values - such as liberty, due process, freedom of speech - that binds Americans together. I think that's always worth standing up for in whatever way we're capable as individuals, even in the face of great hostility from those who disagree with us.

Anyway, that was a bit clumsy. But I hope I got my point across.

There is a stark contrast between what John Adams did and what criminal defense attorneys do today. Adams represented those British soldier out of principle. He desired that they receive a fair trial. Today's criminal defense attorneys will represent any piece of trash for either notoriety or money.

This from John Adams, David McCullough's biography of our second president on page 66 from the paperback edition...

The following day thirt-four-year-old John Adams was asked to defend the soldiers and their captain, when they came to trial. No one else would take the case, he was informed. Hesitating no more than he had over Jonathan Sewall's offer of royal appointment, Adams accepted, firm in the belief, as he said, that no man in a free country should be denied the right to counsel and a fair trial, and convinced, on principle, that the case was of utmost importance. As a lawyer, his duty was clear. That he would hazarding his hard-earned reputation and, in his words, "incurring a clamor and popular suspicions and prejudices" against him, was obvious, and if some of what he later said on the subject would sound a little self-righteous, he was alost being entirely honest.

Page 67...

Close study of the facts had convinced Adams of the innocence of the soldiers. The tragedy was brought on not only by the soldiers, but by the mob, and the mob, it must be understood, was the inevitable result of the flawed policy of quartering troops in a city on the pretext of keeping the peace.

The crowd was shouting, "Kill them! Kill them!" before the British soldiers fired a shot. They were being pelted with ice, rocks, oyster shells, sticks, and "every species of rubbish."

Page 68, quoting Adams...

Facts are stubborn things, and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, our the dictums of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.

Adams defended the British soldiers because he believed they were innocent, and he also believed that every man should be given a fair trial, which would've likely never been given, considering no one wanted to touch the case.

Apples and oranges. Not to be confused.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Adams represented those British soldier out of principle.

Well now, do you suppose that may have been the point of my bringing up the story? Note that even in Adams' time, nobody else was willing to defend these guys.

I think there are certain elements in our country who try to simplify US history into battles between good and evil, a sequence of easy choices in which the populace was always united. They ignore gray areas such as these, where it took great courage for Adams to take an unpopular, principled stand. I believe it's necessary to understand these gray areas in order to have the proper perspective on matters of current interest.

[G Barnett]

Simply because the defense attorneys of today do not, in your opinion (and for many of them, I'd agree it's quite justified), share the same principled outlook of John Adams does not make make the parallel any less valid.

It's not the person behind the defense/prosecution, it's the principle that we should apply it to all people regardless of citizenship which matters. Rule of law is rule of law, and we should never make exceptions for any classification of people, be it citizens or non-citizens. It's in that manner, by creeping steps, in which tyranny slowly takes control.

[marden]

It's interesting which inconsequential aspect of the original post is the launching point and subject for a tangent.

[Chuckit]

Perhaps you should take that as kind of an unstated "TLDR".

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary

"OMG LOOK AT ME I AM THE MASTAR OF TEH INTARNET!!! ONE TIME I WAS AT THIS PLACE ON THIS WEBSITE AND IT WAS PORNOS WITH GIRLS NAKED1!1! <more nonsense> SO IN CONCLUSION I RULE!"

[itai195]

Originally Posted by marden

It's interesting which inconsequential aspect of the original post is the launching point and subject for a tangent.

Actually that inconsequential aspect reminded me of the story, and thus a response to the gist of the OP

I have no control over those people who would like to nitpick my post

[marden]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Perhaps you should take that as kind of an unstated "TLDR".

And I wonder how people can avoid being informed by the original post despite having posted in a thread. Silly me.

[Chuckit]

Perhaps they looked to later posts for some clue as to what the OP was rambling on about.

Seriously, folk, brevity is the soul of wit.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Perhaps they looked to later posts for some clue as to what the OP was rambling on about.

Seriously, folk, brevity is the soul of wit.

I found it worthwhile. FWIW.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by marden

I found it worthwhile. FWIW.

Of course you did.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Powerbook

You should probably STOP listening to IDIOTS???
What do you do about your own qualified adult opinion???

Isn't that what this post is about, though? Someone coming to his own qualified adult opinion?

[besson3c]

DLQ2006: it is true that a good part of the world is against us, but I think that our reactions should be to instead wrap ourselves in our flag and say "screw them" to try to understand their point of view and point of reference with an open mind. After doing so, you don't even have to agree with their point of view, but I think you'll find that many of these points (particularly Canadian and European points which I'm somewhat familiar with) aren't at all unreasonable.

I would then dismiss all unreasonable points, but think very carefully about these reasonable points.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Rumor

Of course you did.

How would one know if it was worthwhile unless one read it? You read all of it?

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

And it's always for a very ungrateful world.

You know, this post strikes me as summing up America's position in the world right now. It goes something like this:

1. On the one hand, we're filled with people who proudly proclaim "we're number one!" and who genuinely believe that we're the greatest and best-est in absolutely everything and that the rest of the world are a bunch of pussies.

2. When the rest of the world hears this attitude, they say "uh..." and get kind of turned off by this American "exceptionalism," as of course anyone would.

3. Americans then say "WTF, you mean you don't agree with my narcissism? How ungrateful of you not to return the blessings I have bestowed upon you through my very glowing presence of being number one!"

It's rather amusing if it weren't so predictable. It's like a kid who goes around telling everyone how great he is, and then when they say "yeah whatever jerk" he gets mad at them for not agreeing with him.

[Spliffdaddy]

word up, DLQ2006

[macintologist]

So what you've come to realize is that both the Democrats and Republicans are power hungry and retarded?

Geez how long did it take you?

[]

I bought a flag from those boyscouts last year but they never brought it to me. Not good

[kmkkid]

Canada will not take part in this "war filled discussion". We will however send some troops in to clean up the aftermath.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by BRussell

You know, this post strikes me as summing up America's position in the world right now. It goes something like this:

1. On the one hand, we're filled with people who proudly proclaim "we're number one!" and who genuinely believe that we're the greatest and best-est in absolutely everything and that the rest of the world are a bunch of pussies.

2. When the rest of the world hears this attitude, they say "uh..." and get kind of turned off by this American "exceptionalism," as of course anyone would.

3. Americans then say "WTF, you mean you don't agree with my narcissism? How ungrateful of you not to return the blessings I have bestowed upon you through my very glowing presence of being number one!"

It's rather amusing if it weren't so predictable. It's like a kid who goes around telling everyone how great he is, and then when they say "yeah whatever jerk" he gets mad at them for not agreeing with him.

QFT.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

Most of the Americans with brains to match their hearts have long since left this forum, it seems.

Well I do only come here that much anymore.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by BRussell

You know, this post strikes me as summing up America's position in the world right now. It goes something like this:

1. On the one hand, we're filled with people who proudly proclaim "we're number one!" and who genuinely believe that we're the greatest and best-est in absolutely everything and that the rest of the world are a bunch of pussies.

2. When the rest of the world hears this attitude, they say "uh..." and get kind of turned off by this American "exceptionalism," as of course anyone would.

3. Americans then say "WTF, you mean you don't agree with my narcissism? How ungrateful of you not to return the blessings I have bestowed upon you through my very glowing presence of being number one!"

It's rather amusing if it weren't so predictable. It's like a kid who goes around telling everyone how great he is, and then when they say "yeah whatever jerk" he gets mad at them for not agreeing with him.

Spot on, as usual.

I for one am ashamed of my fellow Americans who go around beating their breast raving about how great this country is and how it is so much better than any other country. There is NO "one best country" in the world. But it seems many of my fellow citizens have a hard time accepting that statement as anything other than blasphemous. I wish those who felt this way would just mature and stop acting like a bunch of bratty 10-year-olds. Sigh . . .

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well I do only come here that much anymore.

Hmmm, I hope you weren't positioning yourself as one of the "brains" who still comes here because you're missing some subject-verb agreement in your sentence and possibly some punctuation.

[marden]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

QFT.

That's not how you spell *****. Neither is that. But the censor got me.

EDIT: Then maybe QFT actually IS the way to say it on MacNN.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by marden

That's not how you spell *****. Neither is that. But the censor got me.

EDIT: Then maybe QFT actually IS the way to say it on MacNN.

Learn2UrbanDictionary

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Hmmm, I hope you weren't positioning yourself as one of the "brains" who still comes here because you're missing some subject-verb agreement in your sentence and possibly some punctuation.

I guess that's better than missing a sense of humor.

[ink]

Originally Posted by BRussell

<<Stuff>>
It's rather amusing if it weren't so predictable. It's like a kid who goes around telling everyone how great he is, and then when they say "yeah whatever jerk" he gets mad at them for not agreeing with him.

Which reminds me of a question I've wanted to ask to our non-US participants. Do media outlets outside of the United States refer to us as "the world's lone superpower", or is that just one of our domestic hoo-rahs?

[finboy]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

Something snapped in me today that I never thought would.

Yup.

I can see why it snapped. The level of sacrifice that you're being asked to contemplate and endure is unbelievable. The difference between you and those you are sacrificing to protect is monumental, and that's what will kill the idea of "America."

There have been free-riders in every generation, but I think the level of free-riding has steadily increased until it's a given. Before, we'd say that folks would "come around" in time of need, and of course some didn't. My grandparents talked about it, quietly of course, when I asked them about WWII. My Dad talked about it with respect to Korea and Vietnam.

[Kr0nos]

I just wish there was a parallel universe where one could experiment on a world without "superpower policing" and imperialist asshattry.

As for me, something snapped in me a while ago too when I realized that if I had the choice between living in a world ruled by knuckle dragging, backwards, goat slaughtering buffoons, or a bunch of money grubbing, half witted, back stabbing, egotistical ****wits - I would emphatically choose neither.

To me there is no choice between capitalist economic globalization and islamic (or any religious) fundamentalism. I always have to snicker when conservative dimwits call Europe a socialist "utopia", when in reality it is just as capitalist as the US (in some ways even more).

IMO, what "America" stands for has little to do with Americans themselves and I have always made a great effort to evaluate and "judge" people on an individual basis and by the content of their character - wether they be German, American, Iranian, Chinese or whatever.

Nationalism isn't important, people are. This might be a cliché, but I actually still believe that people are more important than profits (or religious affiliation/dogma, nationalism) and that my freedom is everybody else's freedom as well.

So be it, I'm not going to be guilty by association though. I feel I've lived long enough, have talked to a lot of people, been through quite a few things…but for now, I'm just enjoying the ride in the hand-basket. Que será, será…

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by ink

Which reminds me of a question I've wanted to ask to our non-US participants. Do media outlets outside of the United States refer to us as "the world's lone superpower", or is that just one of our domestic hoo-rahs?

They do. BBC uses that phrase occasionally... but not so much anymore. I actually hear the phrase 'rising superpower' used increasingly for China, and even the increase power and influence of the enlarging EU. The world is changing, soon the US will not be able to stomp around the world like they own the place as they did these past 50 years.

Honestly, how can the US continue to be a superpower when foreign countries will soon own a majority of their debt (its over 40% now)?

I can see how the 'flag-waver' set is going to get increasingly disillusioned and desparate. I suggest they do some traveling, there is alot more to this world than the (formerly) great U S of A.


Oh yea, BRussell

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Isn't that what this post is about, though? Someone coming to his own qualified adult opinion?

For me it sounds more like going over the top with the stuff he has been fed to. ("I say screw them!")

[red rocket]

It seems to me that the flag-waving Uberpatriots in the US, who have such a problem with the rest of the world, have no understanding of the relationship between state and individual.

Being incapable of differentiating between the two, everything becomes a personal attack in their minds. These people are not part of a democracy, or even a republic, they are cogs in a machine, incapable of independent thought, thus forever unable to attain any meaningful freedom, no matter how much they keep blabbing on about it.

Some here might be well advised to read the Wikipedia entry on patriotism, maybe they'll come away with just the slightest inkling of how irrational it is.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by red rocket

It seems to me that the flag-waving Uberpatriots in the US, who have such a problem with the rest of the world, have no understanding of the relationship between state and individual.

Then there are those who can't understand cultural diversity and freedom. There are those who tout freedom of speech only when it's convenient for them, not allowing for any contrarian discourse. These types will immediately take an adversarial posture and resort to insults. Those who don't agree with you, particularly those who may feel a sense of passion about their country (a once honorable position, when an 8th grade education rivaled the 12th grade curriculum of today); must be hyper-sensitive, ignorant, backwoods "cogs" incapable of independent thought and are rendered such by virtue of nothing more than the fact that they may think differently than you.

Such is the foundation of intolerance and is made evident to me on a daily basis here in these forums. It seems either you're a cog in one machine or you're a cog in the other. There is no in between. This is the source of the divisive nature indicated by the OP; the central theme and tone of the post that seemed to escape those incapable of allowing for independent thought.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

Canada and most of Europe won't do anything because they've been too busy for the last 50+ years building up Socialists utopias because why spend their own national treasure on silly things like militaries and national defense when the U.S. will do it.

More like we don't play world police, we don't sell technology to rouge states that can be used for nukes that later come back and bite us in the ass, we don't invade countries to rid a country that is run by a dictator that tortures it citizens and later to do the same thing ourselves, we don't go around creating enemies, we don't sell weapons to factions who might help rid us of one enemy and not think about that those weapons might one day be pointed back at us.

But if you think the US's setup is actually better with your trillion spent on wars, pissing on your own constitution and giving up citizens privacy to the government you go right ahead and enjoy that while I live in my much worse "Socialist Utopia".

[marden]

Originally Posted by red rocket

It seems to me that the flag-waving Uberpatriots in the US, who have such a problem with the rest of the world, have no understanding of the relationship between state and individual.

Being incapable of differentiating between the two, everything becomes a personal attack in their minds. These people are not part of a democracy, or even a republic, they are cogs in a machine, incapable of independent thought, thus forever unable to attain any meaningful freedom, no matter how much they keep blabbing on about it.

Some here might be well advised to read the Wikipedia entry on patriotism, maybe they'll come away with just the slightest inkling of how irrational it is.

There is a global movement which promises terrorism, death, conquest and forced conversion headed our way. We need to stop it.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by marden

There is a global movement which promises terrorism, death, conquest and forced conversion headed our way. We need to stop it.

And what is the US offering the world exactly?

[Rumor]

When did the Boy Scouts start selling flags? When I was in, we only sold popcorn.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

More like we don't play world police, we don't sell technology to rouge states that can be used for nukes that later come back and bite us in the ass, we don't invade countries to rid a country that is run by a dictator that tortures it citizens and later to do the same thing ourselves, we don't go around creating enemies, we don't sell weapons to factions who might help rid us of one enemy and not think about that those weapons might one day be pointed back at us.

But if you think the US's setup is actually better with your trillion spent on wars, pissing on your own constitution and giving up citizens privacy to the government you go right ahead and enjoy that while I live in my much worse "Socialist Utopia".

When fighting a global movement there is nothing wrong with going to the heart of the movement and fighting there instead of just fighting the enemy of least resistance while the global movement grows, unopposed.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

And what is the US offering the world exactly?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Nicko

I actually hear the phrase 'rising superpower' used increasingly for China

Eh, that remains to be seen. China's poverty level is still ridiculous, to my knowledge.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Those who don't agree with you, particularly those who may feel a sense of passion about their country (a once honorable position, when an 8th grade education rivaled the 12th grade curriculum of today)

Oooooo, here we go on the "them kids don't learn NUTHIN nowadays!" theme. School was harder then!! We learned more! Music was better, too!!!! This newfamgled nonsense about "criticizing America!" In my day we loved America, and didn't buy foreign cars no matter how good they were!

[/end ridiculousness]

greg

[Chuckit]

I don't believe high-schoolers often did trigonometry in my parents' day.