[hardlinesfour]

After a search, I couldn't really find this topic...

Apple (and other manufacturers) obviously doesn't want their hardware jailbroken, and we obviously done want our hardware crippled by OS design.

(I wouldn't have rooted my cell phone if I could have tethered without doing so.)

Why can't we all just get along? The iPad is a powerful little machine, and its so pretty. If Apple didn't limit the apps that could be installed, and didn't follow in the path of Verizon by crippling the hardware, a jailbreak wouldn't be necessary...

What reasons do manufacturers have to limit hardware? I mean, Verizon has placed clock limits on smartphone CPUs... that doesn't seem necessary, or even a smart business model.

Don't even get me started on the 'upgrade cards' that Intel is market-testing to unlock the full potential of the chip you already bought...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by hardlinesfour 

Don't even get me started on the 'upgrade cards' that Intel is market-testing to unlock the full potential of the chip you already bought...

This is actually BETTER than what they've been doing so far, which is to cripple the hardware with NO WAY to upgrade it should your budget or needs increase later on.

Product differentiation is how hardware works, and it's always artificial. The premium on the top model pays for everybody's hardware and enables the company to sell cheaper, crippled or amputated versions at price points more people will want to afford.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by hardlinesfour 

... a jailbreak wouldn't be necessary...

What did you gain from the jailbreak?

[subego]

The writing on the wall here is you're gonna start paying more for data (and thus tethering) from everyone, just some are doing it earlier than others.

[hardlinesfour]

I don't yet own an iPad, but as I understand it, jailbreaking provides two valuable things:

1. The ability to use non-approved applications, and thus,
2. The ability to multitask using 'backgrounder'

I don't believe in a closed-world application ecosystem anyway, so using the jailbreak to download third-party apps is important. I especially like it when they can enhance my user hardware interface.

[subego]

Well, is the closed ecosystem not right for you, or are the people for whom it works misguided?

[chabig]

I don't feel limited by the app selection of over 250,000 in any way. And multitasking will be here soon enough.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by hardlinesfour 

...we obviously done want our hardware crippled by OS design.

Did Toyota "cripple" my Corolla because it won't do 150 mph?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by hardlinesfour 

2. The ability to multitask using 'backgrounder'

What the heck do you want to do on the iPhone ?

Watch a movie, type a letter and surf the Internet at the same time ?

-t

[hardlinesfour]

I see that I have unintentionally made some enemies...

1. I have a personal preference for hardware that allows me to do basically whatever I want with it. I think a closed ecosystem is great for most people, and certainly great for those who are satisfied. I don't think Apple users are misguided in any way, because it works.

2. IPad, not so much ipod or iPhone. The bigger display lends itself to longer, everyday usage, and therefore, multitasking.

3. Its not that 250,000 apps isn't enough, because, well, obviously... it's that other apps, whether commercial or home brew, just aren't allowed.

4. Chabig- yes, Toyota did cripple, or at least hobble, your corolla. If you wanted to supe it up, you would have that option- direct air, no2, etc... but I don't really have the option of suping up most mobile hardware and software without a jailbreak.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by hardlinesfour 

3. Its not that 250,000 apps isn't enough, because, well, obviously... it's that other apps, whether commercial or home brew, just aren't allowed.

I'm pretty much waiting for you to tell me about some of the awesome stuff available when you jailbreak.

When I was jailbroken, I was completely underwhelmed by pretty much everything I found, and my poor old 3g ran so crappily that I eventually restored the phone.

[chabig]

And what about all of the apps that aren't allowed on Android phones?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by hardlinesfour 

1. I have a personal preference for hardware that allows me to do basically whatever I want with it.

So a jailbroken iPhone/iPad will do your laundry, make dinner and give you a message ?

Or what are you talking about ?

Could you please be more vague ?

-t

[chabig]

It let's him run software that's not approved by Apple, so he can feel more powerful than STEVE JOBS!!!

[-Q-]

So far, the only real benefit I've found to having a jailbroken phone is the ability to tether without losing my unlimited plan (and being overcharged $20 a month for the "convenience").

I tried a lock screen notification app but it was just too cluttered and unattractive. I, too, am curious what other compelling jailbroken apps are out there.

[hardlinesfour]

In short: multitasking, advanced gestures, file management, wireless sync, battery management.

It's not like I think Android is any better- I rooted my evo 4g.

There is just so much more potential for outstanding hardware that just doesn't happen.

[chabig]

iOS already has multitasking, and I doubt that jailbreaking can make your battery last longer. As for "advanced gestures" I have no idea what you mean.

[hardlinesfour]

Extend battery live just by managing screen brightness and WiFi/3g easily, and therefore more frequently...

Advanced gestures with an application called activator- it let's you customize gestures, like 'shake iPad' to perform a task.

[chabig]

Maybe Android requires all that fiddling just to make the battery last longer due to otherwise inefficient power management.

[chabig]

Here's an example of how you can't always count on Adroid to let you "do what you want with your hardware." Verizon also limits the app selection on their phones.

AT&T HTC Aria won't allow outside apps
Verizon returns to old ways, limits choice. Samsung Fascinate locked behind the good ‘ol walled garden

[hardlinesfour]

Again, I'm not really looking for an Android/iOS debate here. Android has its fair share of problems...

If your screen brightness is maxed out, you will have less battery life than when it is at, say, 10%, right? Simple, on-screen brightness control, like having brightness control buttons on my mbp, helps battery management.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by AKcrab 

What did you gain from the jailbreak?

The ability to tether.
The ability to use my iPhone with providers other than the one it was originally locked to.
The ability to restore the brick that iOS4 turned the 3G into.
The ability to free up system memory.
The ability to control screen brightness from within any app.
The ability to turn on/off 3G, Bluetooth, Edge, Location, Phone and WiFi from within any app.
The ability to force-quit apps.
The ability to see my IP address from within any app (limited need, admittedly, but it has come in handy once or twice)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

So far, the only real benefit I've found to having a jailbroken phone is the ability to tether without losing my unlimited plan (and being overcharged $20 a month for the "convenience").

Yep, but that's a pretty big benefit

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

The ability to tether.
The ability to use my iPhone with providers other than the one it was originally locked to.
The ability to restore the brick that iOS4 turned the 3G into.

4.1 took care of that

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

The ability to free up system memory.

iOS 4 lets you quit apps.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

The ability to force-quit apps.

iOS has allowed for that for years.

Tethering, I can do via Handy Light - but that disappeared after about 12 hours on teh app store.

I can't say I used it AT ALL aside from the obligatory testing, once.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

4.1 took care of that

iOS 4.1 allows tethering without being raped by my carrier?
iOS 4.1 allows me to unlock a carrier locked iPhone?
iOS 4.1 performs equivalent to iOS 3.1.x?

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

iOS 4 lets you quit apps.

Yes, it does. But, iOS 4.1 is still much slower performing on a 3G than iOS 3.1.x

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Tethering, I can do via Handy Light - but that disappeared after about 12 hours on teh app store.

Yes, I wonder why it disappeared ....? Interestingly, it's available to jailbroken iPhones.

I agree that iOS 4 does many good things, but it still sucks on the 3G and it doesn't allow tethering without charge for data I've already paid for and it doesn't allow me to unlock a phone that is no longer under it's initial contract subsidy.

[turtle777]

LOL, talking about crippled hardware, this is why I love the iPhone, and will not get any Android phone:

Editorial: Firmware, forums, and desperation -- the dark side of Android hacking -- Engadget

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

But, iOS 4.1 is still much slower performing on a 3G than iOS 3.1.x

Is it really?

I was under the impression that restored the zippy back to being nice enough.

Also, yes, the tethering thing pissed me off, too, but as mentioned, I've surprisingly not actually used it ONCE since gaining the capability. Not once. Anything and everything I used to need to go online with my laptop for in a pinch, the iPhone takes care of until I'm back in Wi-Fi range.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Is it really?

I was under the impression that restored the zippy back to being nice enough.

it's better than 4.0, but it's still slower than 3.1.x.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Also, yes, the tethering thing pissed me off, too, but as mentioned, I've surprisingly not actually used it ONCE since gaining the capability. Not once. Anything and everything I used to need to go online with my laptop for in a pinch, the iPhone takes care of until I'm back in Wi-Fi range.

I use tethering all the time with my iPad.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

it's better than 4.0, but it's still slower than 3.1.x.

Yes, but is it "nice enough"?

Meaning, when I installed 10.4 on my 400 MHz iMac DV, it was clear that it was the end of the line, but it ran better than 10.3 and well enough to make the experience enjoyable and pleasant, while offering enough advantages over OS 9 to make switching back to that out of the question.

Is 4.1 on an iPhone 3G nice enough?

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I use tethering all the time with my iPad.

You're not using the tethering that would be enabled on a contract, as that only works via Bluetooth or USB - neither of which the iPad connects through. (Creating a Wi-Fi pass-through is the way Handy Light works, as well, though.)

Apart from that, I'm fairly sure that the non-3G iPad is a grudging stop-gap until carriers wake up and smell the carrion that is their own hulk rotting from within.

Steve Jobs said ten years ago that the internet is interesting once it's ubiquitous. It can't be until pricing makes this possible. But the iPad (and iOS platform in general) just makes by far the most sense when connectivity is not a consideration, but a given.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Yes, but is it "nice enough"?

Meaning, when I installed 10.4 on my 400 MHz iMac DV, it was clear that it was the end of the line, but it ran better than 10.3 and well enough to make the experience enjoyable and pleasant, while offering enough advantages over OS 9 to make switching back to that out of the question.

Is 4.1 on an iPhone 3G nice enough?

That'll be subjective, of course. Some people obviously do find 4.1 to be "nice enough". For myself, I find 3.1.x on the 3G to be on the threshold of "nice enough"; 4.1 on the 3G is still too slow for my taste, despite what his Steveness says.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

You're not using the tethering that would be enabled on a contract, as that only works via Bluetooth or USB - neither of which the iPad connects through. (Creating a Wi-Fi pass-through is the way Handy Light works, as well, though.)

Which is perfectly fine for me. Wi-Fi pass-through is *far* more useful than Bluetooth or USB tethering.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Apart from that, I'm fairly sure that the non-3G iPad is a grudging stop-gap until carriers wake up and smell the carrion that is their own hulk rotting from within.

Agreed. I do have the 3G iPad, but I have no need to spend for 2 data plans, when I barely use 20% of one.

My current setup is:
Data on 3G iPad
By-the-minute voice plan on jailbroken and unlocked iPhone 3G (unlocked because I bought it used and it was locked to another carrier)
Google Voice forwarding all of my voicemail to my Inbox

Most of the time, my iPad's sim-card is sitting in my iPhone, sharing data between the two devices. I rarely use voice, so I rely on Google Voice to notify me when I've received a call, which I'll call back with Skype or pop the voice sim back into the iPhone. It's a bit of a convoluted setup, but it's that way because I refuse to conform to the carrier's demands.

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

It's a bit of a convoluted setup, but it's that way because I refuse to conform to the carrier's demands.

Way to stick it to the man! Isn't there a saying about cutting off your nose to spite your face? It seems to me that applies here. To each his own...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Way to stick it to the man! Isn't there a saying about cutting off your nose to spite your face? It seems to me that applies here. To each his own...

I'm willing to suffer some inconvenience to keep my monthly bill below $40 rather than above $80. Yes, it's not for everybody, but in this economy, an extra $40/month is nothing to sneeze at.

[chabig]

I understand. You must be married!

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by chabig 

I understand. You must be married!

bingo

[amazing]

The main reason I'd like to see jailbreaking the latest iOS is to be able to go abroad and buy a local microSIM in any country you're working in. One iPhone, that you can carry around with multiple local access. One phone to rule them all!

Yes, if you live in specific countries you can buy an unlocked iPhone that can do this--but Apple makes it very hard to get one unless you're Canadian or French with a Canadian or French address and credit card (etc for the other countries.)

Also, is there any "valid" reason why an iPhone isn't required by law in the US to be unlocked when your contract is up?

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by amazing 

The main reason I'd like to see jailbreaking the latest iOS is to be able to go abroad and buy a local microSIM in any country you're working in. One iPhone, that you can carry around with multiple local access. One phone to rule them all!

Yes, if you live in specific countries you can buy an unlocked iPhone that can do this--but Apple makes it very hard to get one unless you're Canadian or French with a Canadian or French address and credit card (etc for the other countries.)

Also, is there any "valid" reason why an iPhone isn't required by law in the US to be unlocked when your contract is up?

Depends on how you do it. You can buy unlocked iPhones from buy.com for $1000 which come from Hong Kong. I have a friend who did this and they have no problems with it. Your mileage may vary, though.

I bought my fully unlocked iPhone in Greece. I was physically in the country at the time I bought mine. Since I was paying for it outright and wasn't buying a contract I did not need to reside in Greece or have a Greek credit card to buy it. I bought mine from one of the official carriers.

It may be possible for someone to cross the border into Canada and purchase an unlocked phone outright. Depends on the policies of the official carrier as much as it depends on Apple's policies. I don't know if this would work.

As to there being a "valid" reason for not unlocking the iPhone when the contract is up? No. There is no "valid" reason. There is no reason that it can't be done technically. I assume that the exclusivity agreement specifies that no unlocking will take place even after the contract is up.

[Person Man]

What I don't get is that people who don't jailbreak their phones seem to feel so threatened by those that do. Nobody is forcing anybody to jailbreak the phone. Some people choose to jailbreak their phone, some don't. For some the reasons to jailbreak are not compelling, for others the reasons to jailbreak *are* compelling.

Yes, the walled-garden approach works, and it works well *for most people.* There are technically-oriented people for whom it doesn't work and they're not willing to compromise by using a more open, but technologically inferior (in some ways) solution. What is it, exactly, that makes non-jailbreakers so upset about the practice?

Note: Don't bother to answer if you're going to say either of the following things: 1. Apple doesn't like it. (well, no sh*t, but that's not going to stop those who want to do it), or 2. It lets people pirate apps. (Please get it through your head that NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO PIRATE APPS!!).

[chabig]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Also, is there any "valid" reason why an iPhone isn't required by law in the US to be unlocked when your contract is up?

Yes. It's none of the government's business.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

It may be possible for someone to cross the border into Canada and purchase an unlocked phone outright. Depends on the policies of the official carrier as much as it depends on Apple's policies. I don't know if this would work.

In Canada there is no official carrier to ask for permission. you just go to the Apple Store and buy your unlocked iPhone for $700.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

What I don't get is that people who don't jailbreak their phones seem to feel so threatened by those that do. Nobody is forcing anybody to jailbreak the phone. Some people choose to jailbreak their phone, some don't. For some the reasons to jailbreak are not compelling, for others the reasons to jailbreak *are* compelling.

Yes, the walled-garden approach works, and it works well *for most people.* There are technically-oriented people for whom it doesn't work and they're not willing to compromise by using a more open, but technologically inferior (in some ways) solution. What is it, exactly, that makes non-jailbreakers so upset about the practice?

Note: Don't bother to answer if you're going to say either of the following things: 1. Apple doesn't like it. (well, no sh*t, but that's not going to stop those who want to do it), or 2. It lets people pirate apps. (Please get it through your head that NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO PIRATE APPS!!).

people are afraid of different. it's the same reason we have wars in Coke vs Pepsi, Ford vs GM, Left vs Right, etc.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

people are afraid of different. it's the same reason we have wars in Coke vs Pepsi, Ford vs GM, Left vs Right, etc.

That doesn't make sense.

You explain diversity with fear of diversity ?

So the conclusion is that if people weren't afraid, there would NOT be choices ?

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That doesn't make sense.

You explain diversity with fear of diversity ?

So the conclusion is that if people weren't afraid, there would NOT be choices ?

-t

Why do *you* think some people are so troubled by those who jailbreak their iPhones?

[turtle777]

I dunno, I'm not a psychologist.

-t

[subego]

I think the term by itself has a lot to do with it. It just sounds bad.

[ghporter]

Words have a LOT of power. The term "jailbreak" not only sounds dicey by itself, but it presumes that the item you're doing that to was somehow incarcerated, implying that the item was also dicey.

Think of it this way-which sounds better to you: "I was 75% successful" or "I failed 25%"? They mean pretty close to exactly the same thing...

Of course "crippled hardware" is semantically loaded too. It isn't "crippled" in the same sense that someone with a permanent physical disability like an amputation is "crippled." The hardware is limited in its function on purpose for any number of reasons. It's not that way because the functions aren't desirable, but more likely because there is either a support/network limitation that makes it not feasible to allow specific functions to work, or because there are plans to market these functions as upgrades later. Maybe calling it "limited hardware" would be both more accurate and less semantically loaded.