[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

So, ignorance is it then.

That's another tactic of hyper-nationalism; obsess over America, prattle on endlessly about a place you don't live, accuse Americans of being the one's who are overly-nationalistic, then when it's revealed we don't much care to do the same thing for other countries -because once again, it's WEIRD and USELESS- claim that we're the one's being nationalistic!

The real deal is, you can't stand the fact that I simply don't give a good rat's ass enough about your country or any other that I don't live in or spend a great deal of time in, and therefore don't revolve my whole existence around it the way YOU DO WITH MY COUNTRY!

I've got better things to do. Now, you'll of course try and dismiss that as "oh, you think you're better than other countries, wah!"

But no, that's not it at all. For example: I don't obsess over my neighbor's house as opposed to my own either. I don't spend a great deal of time worried about what furniture he has, what he names his kids or pets, what amount of time he spends watching TV, how fit or fat he or his wife is. And this is the guy who lives across the freakin' way from me- let alone obessing over somewhere I've got to get on a plane to go visit.

Does it mean I don't like the guy, or that I think I'm better? No, it simply means I'm perfectly fine with letting him do his thing, and I do mine. It'd be WEIRD to me to be obsessed with his 'land' and his 'culture', not because I'm not ever interested in it, it's just not my 24/7 concern.

So if you were my neighbor on the planet earth, I'd ask something of the same courtesy from you: sure, we can acknowledge each other and all- but don't wake up everyday obsessed with MY home. Freakin' learn to focus on your OWN.

When you obsess too much with my home, to the point of it getting weird and freaky, there's a phrase you tend to earn: PEEPING TOM.

You sir, are one of America's PEEPING TOMS. America says: KNOCK IT OFF ALREADY. Stop virtually peeping in the window. IT'S WEIRD. If you'd like to visit, knock on the freakin' door.

I do plenty of moaning about the UK in other places. Start a thread on it, I'll give opinion. Which aspect of the UK would you like me to critique?

See above. Not all that interested- at the moment. If something creeps up that actually interests me pertaining to the UK, then sure. Meanwhile, it's just not that special of a place for me to give two shits about. Don't take that personally- the same is true right now of North Dakota, or Greenland or Mongolia. Later, I may be gung-ho to take a trip to any of those places and be all fired up on them, but for now, no big deal. They're just places that exist that I'm not in at the moment. Comprende?

No Crash. The politicians give a toss about that kind of thing. The rest of the population doesn't care, since we're not that old and thus weren't actually responsible for any of it.

Fair enough, but see, the SAME is true for most of us Americans and half the shit that gets dredged up in these (what, weekly?) rants by someone from elsewhere about our country.

"BUT YOU GUYS WERE LATE TO BAIL EUROPE OUT OF THEIR OWN MESS IN WWII!!! WAAAHHH!!!"


First of all, (not you personally, but the type of cretin always on about that type of shit) **** off that that was somehow my country's mess to solve for a bunch of lemming euroweenies, and second of all, **** off that any of that SELF-CREATED mess (along with COUNTLESS OTHERS) was somehow my fault personally. Comprende?

Yeah, start a thread about the EU.

Again, see above. Though we're in near-agreement about the "oppressive shite set up by the commies". I wouldn't say 'commies' (wanna-bes maybe) maybe just dumbasses.

As for euroweenies, sorry, there was nothing all that 'tough' about waging war against mostly unarmed women and children, then losing spectacularly once men who actually FOUGHT BACK showed up.

But see what I mean? A little of your insistence in the 'euro-superman' rearing it's ugly head there again? Perhaps just a lil' jerk of that nationalistic knee there?

[Doofy]

For the last time Crash: I'm not obsessed with your country. I'm simply having a conversation about your country in a thread about your country.

Simply because you can't be arsed to be interested in countries you're not currently in, it doesn't mean that other people aren't interested. I'm a capitalist pig, so of course I'm interested in the psychology of your country and how this affects your politics and thus your markets (and the worldwide banking system).

If it's not possible for you to see this without constantly using the word "obsessed" (or derivatives thereof), then perhaps it's time to start thinking about seeing a shrink?

[besson3c]

You are pretty aggressive when given opportunities to knock America down a peg or two though, Doofy. I'm not saying you shouldn't do the peg knocking, but you don't have to knock the peg so hard. You pretty much clobber the spell out of the poor peg. Are you like this in bed?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

You are pretty aggressive when given opportunities to knock America down a peg or two though, Doofy. I'm not saying you shouldn't do the peg knocking, but you don't have to knock the peg so hard. You pretty much clobber the spell out of the poor peg.

You want to see me go at it with jingoistic assholes in the UK. I do everything hard. Except eating cake - I'm quite gentle with that.

You asked a question. I gave you the answer. Sometimes, the truth is hard.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Are you like this in bed?

I'm a beast.
And then some hours later when I'm utterly spent I look down at my flaccid wiener, notice that it reminds me of some NN members, and thus have to come have a conversation here.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

You want to see me go at it with jingoistic assholes in the UK. I do everything hard. Except eating cake - I'm quite gentle with that.

You asked a question. I gave you the answer. Sometimes, the truth is hard.



I'm a beast.
And then some hours later when I'm utterly spent I look down at my flaccid wiener, which reminds me of some NN members, so I have to come have a conversation here.

Remind me never to sleep with you. You'd probably just ram me out, work up a sweat, and we wouldn't even cuddle afterwards.

[besson3c]

By the way, that style of lovemaking sucks Doofy. If that is you you are a horseshit lover.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Simply because you can't be arsed to be interested in countries you're not currently in, it doesn't mean that other people aren't interested. I'm a capitalist pig, so of course I'm interested in the psychology of your country and how this affects your politics and thus your markets (and the worldwide banking system).

Then here's an idea: then why not actually LEARN something about whatever places your interested in, rather than hiding out in the shrubbery and peeping in the window while playing with yourself?

Note: I mean learn about the place FOR REAL, not just go online and gripe endlessly about some imaginary version of the place? Just a suggestion.

And did you just admit to wanking off to the thought of some members on macnn?

Whatever floats your boat guy, but geeze, some things you should keep to yourself. Another suggestion.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Then here's an idea: then why not actually LEARN something about whatever places your interested in, rather than hiding out in the shrubbery and peeping in the window while playing with yourself?

Note: I mean learn about the place FOR REAL, not just go online and gripe endlessly about some imaginary version of the place? Just a suggestion.

What, you mean like living in it?
Got the T.

Really Crash, you're embarrassing yourself trying to use your YouTube-quality arguments on me.

And it's "you're", not "your". Do pay attention.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

And did you just admit to wanking off to the thought of some members on macnn?

Ahh... it's all become clear - you have serious reading difficulties. That explains a lot.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

By the way, that style of lovemaking sucks Doofy. If that is you you are a horseshit lover.

Dude, don't call your mom "horseshit". It's not polite.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Show us your Concorde.
Show us your Thrust 2.
Show us your theory of black holes.
Show us your world wide web.
Show us your ARM processors.
Show us your walkmans.
Show us your EDSAC.

It's all bollocks. Amerika isn't exceptional in anything, except bullshit and being fat.

The grounded Concordes with the 'too expensive to maintain" labels over them?
Who even uses a walkman when they can have an ipod? The small hand-held radios were RCA/Japanese creations of the mid-1950's, not even European.

UK does have that advanced dental care system though.....LOL

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

The grounded Concordes with the 'too expensive to maintain" labels over them?

Unlike all the cheap-to-maintain SR-71s still flying?

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Who even uses a walkman when they can have an ipod?

Where are iPods made again? Detroit? Nashville? Denver?

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

The small hand-held radios were RCA/Japanese creations of the mid-1950's, not even European.

Try to remember that the discussion is about "people who're not Amerikan do things outside Amerika" and is not about "USA vs Europe".

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

UK does have that advanced dental care system though.....LOL

Which one? The one you pay for or the one you get for free?

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Try to remember that the discussion is about "people who're not Amerikan do things outside Amerika" and is not about "USA vs Europe".

I thought it more about why it's annoying when Doofy thread-craps. Basically besson started a conversation that, by necessity, proceeds from an assumption of a nationalistic perspective, and you came in to start an argument about why nationalism is dumb. That's fine as your opinion, but you (and CRASH too, to be fair) are being kind of a jerk about it IMO. It's akin to going to a Mac forum just to talk about how stupid Macs are.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

So anybody else build anything comparable to the SR-71?
NOPE. Not even close.

The SR-71 was declassified in the 80s. It was designed in the 50s, built in the 60s IIRC.

But I agree with the air superiority sentiment, at least at the moment.

I am exceptionally American, for all the good and bad, and chicks love it.

[Dork.]

This thread is exceptional in its crappiness.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I thought it more about why it's annoying when Doofy thread-craps. Basically besson started a conversation that, by necessity, proceeds from an assumption of a nationalistic perspective, and you came in to start an argument about why nationalism is dumb. That's fine as your opinion, but you (and CRASH too, to be fair) are being kind of a jerk about it IMO. It's akin to going to a Mac forum just to talk about how stupid Macs are.

I didn't thread crap. I answered Bess' question.
The only people who thread-crapped are those who didn't like the answer and turned it into some kind of "us vs them" argument when what they could have been discussing is the psychology behind it.

It's not my f'ing fault your countrymen are too f'ing stupid to see beyond "USA! USA! USA!" is it?

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I didn't thread crap. I answered Bess' question.
The only people who thread-crapped are those who didn't like the answer and turned it into some kind of "us vs them" argument when what they could have been discussing is the psychology behind it.

It's not my f'ing fault your countrymen are too f'ing stupid to see beyond "USA! USA! USA!" is it?

I disagree. What besson asked was, is the concept of American exceptionalism "what could make (or has made) America lose its edge?" (corrected his typos), or in other words, does it make Americans complacent and miss opportunities that "exist today in tapping into international markets?" The entire premise behind this question assumes that the person considering it identifies "America" as a national identity with the desire to advance relative to other national identities. You didn't answer the question, you argued against its premise. I don't think its a coincidence that there are now two simultaneous threads that have managed to be derailed right off the bat (the other in even more obvious fashion than this one) by arguments with you about the premise of nationalism.

Just to clarify: I think it's a fine topic to have a specific discussion about, but it's extremely annoying when it seems like any thread that touches in some way on America's role in the world, racial/ethnic identity, etc., automatically becomes an argument with Doofy about why nationalism is stupid.

[BadKosh]

So we still win on the Moon Rocks, and the associated Saturn 5, LEM etc.

The SR71's were designed in the very late 1950's, and built in the early 1960's. Today nobody has built an engine like the J58's that powered them.

How about the Wright Brothers? Do they rate?

Blind, ignorant hatred of the US is a very Muslim trait. Very 10th century.

[sek929]

I thought America was full of liberal freedom haters, not ultra-nationalists.

Which one is it Doofy?

[imitchellg5]

Yes, lots of people hated the US in the 10th century.

[BadKosh]

But they were mostly hating the changing weather that killed the plants their sheep were eating. Poor old Leif Ericsson.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Again, I'm not obsessed with places I don't live.

Here's another way to look at it:

We here in Amerika don't self-reflect about our exceptionalism enough, because we're too busy SAVING THE REST OF THE WORLD from time to time.

You're welcome.

[imitchellg5]

What? When have we Americans EVER saved the world?

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

What? When have we Americans EVER saved the world?

[parsley]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Okay, so watch the opening ceremony speeches from Vancouver 2010.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I disagree. What besson asked was, is the concept of American exceptionalism "what could make (or has made) America lose its edge?" (corrected his typos), or in other words, does it make Americans complacent and miss opportunities that "exist today in tapping into international markets?"

Bess asks "Is this thinking exactly what could (or has) made Americans lose its edge?".

The answer is: This thinking is what causes you to imagine you have an edge which doesn't, in reality, exist.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I thought America was full of liberal freedom haters, not ultra-nationalists.

Which one is it Doofy?

You realise that both can combine in the same population, right?

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I haven't watched the entire SotU address, I don't know if I will, but what little I watched I noticed that Obama once again brought out the American exceptionalism which has been present in virtually every administration and the rhetoric of just about any aspiring politician.

For instance, Obama brought up examples of great American technological innovation, some sort of success story and made the usual point that "in no other country is this possible".

Is this thinking exactly what could (or has) made Americans lose its edge? The USA is far from the only country that innovates stuff, and while there are still plenty of rags to riches and this country has enormous spending power, I don't see why the same sorts of opportunities don't exist today in tapping into international markets?

A great many are trying besson3c. I think you may have picked up on what IMO was an uncomfortable outreach to free market capitalism. If I can recall in fact, the portion of his speech dealing with technological innovation and US exceptionalism was to be construed in the context of empowered individuals. The message is traditionally used to get you to dig deep within yourself for your greatness; that it is this that makes America unique and exceptional. A concept many feel should be preserved. More on that later. Anyway, "Let's all struggle to compete on the world stage so we can achieve 8th place by..." just doesn't have the same ring to it. Know what I'm sayin'?

If you are tempted to accuse me of being anti-America in response to this, I'd like to know why you feel that way based on what I have written here. The quickness to label people who question this or take a defensive stance of some sort is also something that might be a byproduct of whatever it is here that I'm trying to put my finger on.

The idea that we'd call into question the behaviors and/or statements and promises of our leadership is one that separates nationalists from patriots. In this Orwell makes a lot of sense to me. I certainly couldn't characterize you as anti-American for challenging this message. I just don't see this message the same as perhaps you and others.

Isn't it in our best interest to be hungry for excellence and betterment rather than just assuring us that we are already there? Some would say that the hardest thing about being a prize-fighter is *staying* a prize-fighter.
Let's avoid the usual back and forth about what policies are leading us to impending doom, okay? I'm more interested in the cultural aspect to all of this which is nothing new.

Of course it's in our best interest to be hungry for excellence and betterment, but in context of the direction we're going, many are hungry for reversals and do-overs to achieve that betterment; that in fact many of our best times are behind us. I won't pretend to give you the pulse of the entire country, but I've always understood the message of American exceptionalism as synonymous with individual empowerment and achievement.

The belief that something is exceptional is rooted in the desire to preserve aspects of it. It's why museums exist. While I felt the speech was disconnected from the true State of the Union, the "exceptionalist" message is generally harmless IMO and certainly not exclusive to this geographical region of mankind. Obama was merely attempting to reach out to those who believe American exceptionalism is rooted in the power and prosperity of the individual. i.e. Less AMERICA™, more Americans. These folks by the way, are well aware of exactly where the US ranks in numerous areas, lament it often, are working to change that, and don't need the help of pessimists and antagonists.

I said Obama seemed uncomfortable, but out of respect for your request I will avoid adjudicating his honesty.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by parsley 

Modern Olympic logos are the worst ever. It must be a requirement or something. /offtopic

[mduell]

Why is Apple an American company?