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Cody Dawg · Apr 16, 2006, 10:47 AM

Why are you defending something so despicable that a television news crew took Apple to task for it...and Apple even supposedly "changed" the way that they deal with these types of issues?

Obviously, it WAS a problem...

Are YOU Mark Aaker in disguise?

Oisín · Apr 16, 2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Why are you defending something so despicable that a television news crew took Apple to task for it...

Are you seriously taking the fact that a television news crew took Apple to task as a measurement of whether or not something is despicable? There isn’t the thing, despicable or noble, that some news crew somewhere hasn’t taken to task. Likewise, there isn’t the thing, despicable or noble, that some news crew somewhere hasn’t glorified as the be-all and end-all of goodness incarnate.

Why is it so “despicable”, anyway, that the poor little third-grader didn’t receive a super-cute handwritten letter with pink hearts saying, “That’s like *so* nice of you, and we’re like *so* totally gonna use that in like everything we like every do!!!1!”? Did she really expect that? If so, then her parents are pretty damn stupid for letting her believe that.

and Apple even supposedly "changed" the way that they deal with these types of issues?

Obviously, it WAS a problem...

Yes, obviously it was. Not the basics of how they react (inform people that they can’t legally take any of their advice into consideration for fear of lawsuits), that remains intact. But this apparently made them realise that there was a problem with the contents of the letter they send back to people.

What would you have them do when they receive these letters? How many letters like this one do you think Apple receive? Most likely dozens every day. Would you expect them to invite these people to Cupertino where they’d get to shake Steve Jobs’s hand while he expressed his eternal gratitude over their particular ideas and gave them a fruit basket?

You obviously don’t think it matters whether a boatload of crackpots manage to sue Apple into a court-logged marshpit of constant lawsuits—if you did, you’d realise that they have to let people know they can’t use their ideas, good or bad—but what exactly would you have them do?

Are YOU Mark Aaker in disguise?

No, I’m just able to see the world as more than just black and white, and carry a logical thought in my head, without taking everything the media presents at face value and become entrenched in my own beliefs based on that.

And what is your obsession with Mark Aaker? He’s just the guy who signed the letter. There’s quite a good chance, you know, that he never even saw the girl’s letter.

Cody Dawg · Apr 16, 2006, 11:22 AM

If he signed something without reading it then he'd a crappy attorney, too.

Oisín · Apr 16, 2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

If he signed something without reading it then he'd a crappy attorney, too.

He probably read through the letter he signed (if he didn’t know it more or less by heart), but the persons who saw the girl’s letter and decided that they’d just send out the standard letter in reply were most likely various assistants around Apple. It probably ended up at Aaker’s secretary’s desk, who read through the letter quickly, printed out a copy of the standard reply, took it to Aaker for signing, and then sent it off. If you’ve ever worked in a corporation, you’ll know that’s exactly how standardised letters find their way to people in most cases (where the signer is in a position prominent enough to have his/her own secretary, of course).

Chuckit · Apr 16, 2006, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Oh, come on. You're just as bad as Mark Aaker. If someone was paying attention - she SAYS in the letter that she is a THIRD GRADER - then they obviously knew it was from a LITTLE GIRL.

Besides, what IS the point of Apple sending out those kinds of letters anyway?

To protect itself from big lawsuits. As people have already said.

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Then they bully people with their letters - including a little girl?

Where the hell did this come from? I can't see how you could possibly construe this as bullying. If I offer someone a peanut butter sandwich and he says, "I can't eat those because I have a fatal peanut allergy," is he bullying me? All you could say is that it's a bit curt.

Cody Dawg · Apr 16, 2006, 12:25 PM

Oh, give me a break.

Obviously they BULLIED a little girl with a letter - that's why it was NEWS.

And to respond you'll probably attack the people that reported the story, whether or not it was newsworthy, etc.

Just forget it. Apple bullied a little girl when any other computer company wouldn't.

Heck, my son has a letter from Microsoft thanking him for his idea about a server-based student tutoring program that he's been developing. Apple would send a letter that threatens to sue him.

goMac · Apr 16, 2006, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Just forget it. Apple bullied a little girl when any other computer company wouldn't.

I severely doubt that.

Also your sons idea already exists, but (in all seriousness) kudos to him for brainstorming new ways to use technology.

Chuckit · Apr 16, 2006, 12:47 PM

You still haven't explained how the letter was bullying. And no, there is no evidence that Apple threatened to sue the girl or even implied a suit. Both from what the family said and from what we see of the letter, it appears to be a standard "We don't accept unsolicited ideas" letter Apple's legal department drafted to cover its ass. By all appearances, the girl just didn't like the cold tone of the legal letter, and that's why she was upset.

So again, please explain your position more fully, because it looks like you're jumping to conclusions.

CharlesS · Apr 16, 2006, 02:07 PM

What I'm wondering is, do I have to worry about this as a shareware developer?

Has there ever been any noted case of someone sending a suggestion to a shareware developer, and then suing if/when it got implemented?

My usual policy has been that I welcome suggestions, but reserve the right to ignore them unless I think they're good ideas. Unless you're paying me by the hour, the creative control over my programs belongs to me.

Do I need to stop allowing people to send feedback?

version · Apr 16, 2006, 02:12 PM

This happens in the film/tv industry. It's basic policy to return any unsolicited mail. You can't send Disney, or LucasFilm anything that contains ideas, stories, etc. without it being returned unopened. They have to protect themselves in case the contents of the letter contains something that the production company might do one day.

macaddict0001 · Apr 16, 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Oh, give me a break.

Obviously they BULLIED a little girl with a letter - that's why it was NEWS.

And to respond you'll probably attack the people that reported the story, whether or not it was newsworthy, etc.

Just forget it. Apple bullied a little girl when any other computer company wouldn't.

Heck, my son has a letter from Microsoft thanking him for his idea about a server-based student tutoring program that he's been developing. Apple would send a letter that threatens to sue him.

Are you aware of how many times apple has been bitten in the balls by lawsuits, That the letter was sent to the wrong address and that the requested feature already exists?

Gamoe · Apr 16, 2006, 07:31 PM

Cody, it almost seems like you're trying to make this into a bigger issue that its not and prolong the discussion. I, like most people here, see it as an oversight on Apple's part- an inappropriate, but not "evil" or "bullying" response. For some reason, it's touched some emotional chord with you. Try to look at it from Apple's perspective, or at least from a more dispassionate perspective.

As for the other things about Apple... that's another subject entirely. However, I've no trouble with them stealing from Microsoft-- I'd just see that as getting some of their own R&D back.

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Heck, my son has a letter from Microsoft thanking him for his idea about a server-based student tutoring program that he's been developing. Apple would send a letter that threatens to sue him.

Uhm.. Well, that's great. Maybe Microsoft will steal your son's idea and send your son a free copy of Vista...

If you honestly think Microsoft is better because of this, you've got the wrong eye glasses on today. Honestly Cody, try looking at this with a little less bias-- there wasn't anything ominous going on. There are so many other things that really matter. This was just a protocol matter.

brassplayersrock² · Apr 16, 2006, 08:05 PM

cody cody cody, just cause apple wont give your kid a discount cause hes a "hard working kid" in high school doesnt mean that apple is all bad. they did what they do to everyone who sends them ideas. since this indeed did get national news on tv, than yeah of course apple is going to say that they had a meeting about this. who knows if theyll really change there ways when it comes to kids or not, who knows.
side note: oh yeah, since your going to get rid of all of your apple products, could i have some please?

docbud · 07:24 AM

{edit: am going back to read the "stealing" links.}

ink · Apr 17, 2006, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by loki74

3) From a business perspective its foolish to accept unsolicited advice. If you use it, and someone says "hey I thought of that!" (correct me if I'm wrong) but doesnt that give them the opportunity to sue you for stealing the idea? If you're under contract, you cant do that, and that's why the advice is solicited.

Horray for Intellectual Property, and the Marketplace for Ideas(tm)!

Man, those Renascence people had it all wrong -- you need to threaten lawsuits when someone exposes you to a new idea. Newton got ripped off by all those people freeloading on his brain.

Chuckit · Apr 17, 2006, 01:55 PM

Erm…who said anything about threatening suit when somebody exposes you to a new idea? The point is that the person exposing you to an idea might feel like there's some kind of monetary agreement there. Which is stupid, yeah, but that seems to be the reasoning.

production_coordinator · Apr 17, 2006, 02:18 PM

I'm tempted to send a similar letter to Microsoft to see what they would send back.

"My name is mitchell_pgh, I'm 5 years old, and I have some suggestions for your Operating System. 1) Don't make it so ugly. 2) Make it work on my computer. 3) Get rid of that blue screen thingie... it's annoying and stuff."

version · Apr 17, 2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

I'm tempted to send a similar letter to Microsoft to see what they would send back.

"My name is mitchell_pgh, I'm 5 years old, and I have some suggestions for your Operating System. 1) Don't make it so ugly. 2) Make it work on my computer. 3) Get rid of that blue screen thingie... it's annoying and stuff."

lmao, i dare ya, that'd be too funny.

olePigeon · Apr 17, 2006, 02:33 PM

They should send a followup letter:

Dear Billy,

You don't get an educational discount! Gna, gna!

Sincerely,

Apple Legal

version · Apr 17, 2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

They should send a followup letter:

Dear Billy,

You don't get an educational discount! Gna, gna!

Sincerely,

Apple Legal

i'm pissing myself, so funny.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 17, 2006, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Horray for Intellectual Property, and the Marketplace for Ideas(tm)!

Man, those Renascence people had it all wrong -- you need to threaten lawsuits when someone exposes you to a new idea. Newton got ripped off by all those people freeloading on his brain.

Apple is not threatening to sue anyone. The letter they sent explained that they do not accept unsolicited suggestions because it would expose Apple to future liability, not the girl.

Cody Dawg · Apr 17, 2006, 02:42 PM

Oh, right.

That's why the LITTLE GIRL was so H A P P Y.

Apple was NICE to her.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 17, 2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Oh, right.

That's why the LITTLE GIRL was so H A P P Y.

Apple was NICE to her.

I did not say that Apple was "nice to her." I said that they did not threaten to sue her, or make any other threats at all. The gist of what they said was, "I'm sorry, we cannot accept your suggestions. Thank you for your interest in Apple Computers." Can you provide any evidence otherwise?

Apple should not be villified for failing to make a 9 year old feel special. Could they have made her experience less impersonal? Maybe. Or maybe her mother shouldn't have built up her expectations for an unsolicited business letter and then proceed to freak out at the impersonal response and call a news crew (I can't imagine any other way the CBS affiliate could have found out about this).

Chuckit · Apr 17, 2006, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Oh, right.

That's why the LITTLE GIRL was so H A P P Y.

Apple was NICE to her.

Earth to Cody — please come back to reality. What you just said has no relation to what anybody else said.

Cody Dawg · Apr 17, 2006, 03:51 PM

Obviously you understood SOMETHING...you're responding.

Chuckit · Apr 17, 2006, 03:55 PM

Yes, I understand that you're arguing against things people aren't saying. Nobody said the girl was happy or that Apple was nice to her. People just said Apple didn't threaten her in any way, which appears to be true from all the evidence we have.

Stogieman · Apr 17, 2006, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

How ridiculous.

I honestly think that I might just chuck all of our Apple products and never buy another one. Seriously.

Chuck all of your Apple products my way... would ya? I'll PM you my address. Let me now how much you want for shipping.

ink · Apr 17, 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Apple is not threatening to sue anyone. The letter they sent explained that they do not accept unsolicited suggestions because it would expose Apple to future liability, not the girl.

Yes, I understand.

Really.

I do.

It's just sad that we have to innocculate ourselves from potential ideas in order to prevent future lawsuits, don't you think? That whole nonsense with the Da Vinci Code ripoff is a great example. I mean, really... where does this put a company like Apple? They cannot ever solicit ideas from their customers? They cannot even consider product suggestions for fear of being sued ... it sounds like a bad Sci-Fi Original movie plot, if you ask me.

Chuckit · Apr 17, 2006, 04:06 PM

I agree completely, but welcome to the United States of Litigation.

CharlesS · Apr 17, 2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Oh, right.

That's why the LITTLE GIRL was so H A P P Y.

Apple was NICE to her.

Oh, I get it now. It's against the law to not make someone happy. I see. Do I get to go on the news if I'm not happy about something too?

ink · Apr 17, 2006, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I agree completely, but welcome to the United States of Litigation.

It's all WIPO nations (i.e., everyone). The whole notion of "Intellectual Property" has gotten WAY out of control.

It's like that annoying rich kid in high school who always had to be the first on a new scene; endlessly telling everyone "I discovered it", "I was there first", "you're all posers because you weren't there when I was"; except on a multi-billion-dollar scale and you don't really have to be there first in order to patent/trademark/copyright it.

I realize that Apple must play this game; but it still sucks.

turtle777 · Apr 17, 2006, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by Stogieman

Chuck all of your Apple products my way... would ya? I'll PM you my address. Let me now how much you want for shipping.

Better hurry. Don't you know how fast Cody flip-flops...

-t

Oisín · Apr 18, 2006, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Oh, I get it now. It's against the law to not make someone happy. I see. Do I get to go on the news if I'm not happy about something too?

Pfft... obviously, you don’t get it at all! You only get to go on the news if you’re a little girl who’s not happy about something. Sheesh!

P.S.: I notice you still haven’t said a single word about what you would have Apple do, Cody... any takers, or are you just basically trolling?