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Cody Dawg · Apr 16, 2006, 12:59 PM

Link with pictures courtesy of Todd Schnitt's site (great talk show by the way).

So, check it out: This teacher, 22-years old, gets involved with a student, right? But the "student" is 18 years old...and not HER student...

Yet they're charging her with a crime.

ASHEVILLE, N.C. -- A Buncombe County teacher's assistant has been fired and charged with sexual activity with a student.

Heather Shelton, 22, who worked full time at North Buncombe High School with special-needs students, is accused of having sex with a 19-year-old who was not her student, Detective Anne Benjamin said. Investigators said they believe the sex did not happen at school and that the two may not have met at school.

The Sheriff's Department alleged the two had sex April 1. Shelton, who was fired Tuesday, could face 10 months or more in prison if convicted.

Shelton is the third Buncombe County school employee this year accused of having sex with a high school senior.

On this subject I think that the authorities are just wrong. Why? He's 18 - legally an adult, able to vote, join the military, etc.

What do any of you think?

Chuckit · Apr 16, 2006, 01:04 PM

She's not even a teacher. She's a TA. And this story is a WTF. I wonder if she even realized that apparently it's illegal to have sex with "students" in North Carolina.

As a side note, the link contains a random link to a page of pics of the chick in a bikini. Gotta love the Internet!

Jerk_circus · Apr 16, 2006, 01:24 PM

That chick in the bikini is the teacher

Jerk_circus · Apr 16, 2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

She's not even a teacher. She's a TA. And this story is a WTF. I wonder if she even realized that apparently it's illegal to have sex with "students" in North Carolina.

As a side note, the link contains a random link to a page of pics of the chick in a bikini. Gotta love the Internet!

The link isn't random. The chick in the bikini is the teacher/TA

Jerk_circus · Apr 16, 2006, 01:26 PM

Hmmm. MacNN always seems to lag/stall/struggle/freeze when I do quick replies for some reason...Never happens on other forms. Weird.

meelk · Apr 16, 2006, 01:31 PM

*hottie*
the guy was 18. wheres the problem?

if she wanted to have sex with me when I was 18, it wouldnt have just been "yes" it would have been "hell yes!"

Doofy · Apr 16, 2006, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jerk_circus

Hmmm. MacNN always seems to lag/stall/struggle/freeze when I do quick replies for some reason...Never happens on other forms. Weird.

They have stronger, faster, bigger hamsters. Ours is half-starved and skulks off into a corner for a quick toke every now and then.

Chuckit · Apr 16, 2006, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jerk_circus

The link isn't random. The chick in the bikini is the teacher/TA

Which I pointed out by saying "the chick," since there was only one chick previously mentioned. It's still random.

Doofy · Apr 16, 2006, 01:36 PM

That albino alien anteater thingy is scaring me.

version · Apr 16, 2006, 01:38 PM

What's the legal age for sex over there, in that state?

meelk · Apr 16, 2006, 01:42 PM

lol, I see now, having read the whole story, shes engaged to another teacher at the school.

whoops!

meelk · Apr 16, 2006, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by version

What's the legal age for sex over there, in that state?

16, but apparently theres a state law for no sex between students/teachers.
the full story says she apparently didnt even meet him at school. if she has a lawyer worth a **** this will get thrown out.

Sourbook · Apr 16, 2006, 01:49 PM

Under North Carolina law, “It is illegal for school personnel to have sexual activity with students,” she said. “Doesn’t matter the age.”

So Under North Carolina law: Two 50 year olds can not have sex if one of them works for a school, and the other a student?

meelk · Apr 16, 2006, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Sourbook

So Under North Carolina law: Two 50 year olds can not have sex if one of them works for a school, and the other a student?

yes. homosexual sex is also totally illegal.

Cody Dawg · Apr 16, 2006, 04:23 PM

Okay, so everyone seems to agree with me - it's ridiculous, right?

Oh, and gotta love the 50-year old teacher-to-teacher jab

Jerk_circus · Apr 16, 2006, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Which I pointed out by saying "the chick," since there was only one chick previously mentioned. It's still random.

My mistake. I didnt notice the "the"

BRussell · Apr 16, 2006, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Okay, so everyone seems to agree with me - it's ridiculous, right?

I don't agree that it's ridiculous either to 1) have a rule about no sex between teachers and students or 2) to expect people to follow that rule. I'm sure no harm was done here, and she should probably get off easy (hehe). But a no-sex rule between teachers and students seems perfectly reasonable to me.

goMac · Apr 16, 2006, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Okay, so everyone seems to agree with me - it's ridiculous, right?

Oh, and gotta love the 50-year old teacher-to-teacher jab

It is against the teacher contract for very good reasons. I work in a school district, I know one guy who got sent away for underage, and I know one guy who is dating a student legally. The guy who was dating a student legally was pulled from the school he was working in.

The problem is, could a teacher really fail his significant other if that was the grade the significant other deserved? And teachers are in positions of power. They can manipulate and abuse that power.

Ghoser777 · Apr 16, 2006, 05:23 PM

Did I read that right... she's engaged too? That's got to make her fiance feel great.

I once was a 22 year old teacher myself, straight out of college and all. Shouldn't it be obvious that nothing good can come from having sex with a student attending the school? I'm not the best in the "common sense" department, but this one seems like a no brainer - no sex with students.

Cody Dawg · Apr 16, 2006, 06:04 PM

Uh, did you READ (you do read, right, being a teacher and all) that the "student" is not a student at her own school?

turtle777 · Apr 16, 2006, 06:14 PM

There is no way in heck I'm gonna refrain from posting...

-t

Ghoser777 · Apr 16, 2006, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Uh, did you READ (you do read, right, being a teacher and all) that the "student" is not a student at her own school?

Cody, where did you see that its not the same school? In fact, if you READ the law included with the article:

If a defendant, who is a teacher, ... engages in intercourse or a sexual act with a victim who is a student, at any time during or after the time the defendant and victim were present together in the same school, but before the victim ceases to be a student, the defendant is guilty of a Class G felony

If it wasn't the same school, a law wouldn't be broken here. All I see in the article is she wasn't his teacher.

Ghoser777 · Apr 16, 2006, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

There is no way in heck I'm gonna refrain from posting...

-t

So in other countries high school teachers can have sex with their students? How progressive...

turtle777 · Apr 16, 2006, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

So in other countries high school teachers can have sex with their students? How progressive...

At that point, it is NOT clear what their relationship is. Give you that.

Initially indicated was that they weren't even at the same school, so yes, Only in Amaraca !

-t

RAILhead · Apr 16, 2006, 07:39 PM

I could do without the obvious beer belly, bleached hair, etc., but yeah, I'd hit it.

Cody Dawg · Apr 16, 2006, 07:41 PM

Oh, come on.

I heard (on the radia via her attorney) that it's NOT the same school. She's in a completely different area.

Besides, THE "STUDENT" IS 18 YEARS OLD.

Ghoser777 · Apr 16, 2006, 08:00 PM

Okay, so is it that I can't read now, or that I can't hear local Florida radio stations?

Anyway, even if it is a different school, I don't think high school employees should be having sex with high school students. The student could be 21 years old, and it would still be weird. Beyond high school is a different story - if college students and college professors want to get it on, more power to them.

Gamoe · Apr 16, 2006, 08:47 PM

From what we know, this seems rather baseless and plain unjust when it relates to two consenting adults. Now, if this affected her ability to teach or grade this individual fairly (if they ever even interacted in the same school), then that's an entirely separate matter that should be dealt with within the school, but threatening prison time is just completely ludicrous to me.

Of course, many things that governments and societies do and accept seem ludicrous to me.

ghporter · Apr 16, 2006, 10:02 PM

There's a difference between an unethical relationship between a student and a faculty member who is not the student's teacher, and an illegal relationship between a teacher (any teacher) and a minor.

It is plainly unethical to have a relationship with a student whose academic career one can influence. A professor in the same school (as in the professor teaches in the "college of science," and the student is enrolled in that school) should NOT have a personal relationship, and especially not an intimate relationship that calls into question the professor's integrity. Such a situation hurts both the professor and the student.

On the other hand, if the professor teaches in the college of science and the student is in the college of fine arts, there's a much less serious threat to the professor's integrity.

For once, Cody, I agree with your statement in the subject of a post: the line IS blurry, but it's easy to find and easy to learn about BEFORE one gets into such a relationship.

Cody Dawg · Apr 16, 2006, 10:54 PM

Oh, and by the way, her lawyer said that the MAN (he's 18 so he's a man, right?) told this woman that he was 19 years old.

Apparently she didn't even know that he was in high school.

Gosh, I feel like a cradle robber...my husband is 5 years younger than me.

Ghoser777 · Apr 16, 2006, 11:05 PM

Now that point is scary - I've been out and wondered if any of the pretty girls I see were still in high school. It's gotten to the point where you almost have to do a background check on anyone you're interested in.

turtle777 · Apr 16, 2006, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

Now that point is scary - I've been out and wondered if any of the pretty girls I see were still in high school. It's gotten to the point where you almost have to do a background check on anyone you're interested in.

Yes. Things really get out of control here. Pseudo-moral or -ethical issues are treated like it was a criminal act. WTF ? They are both over 18, so WHY does anyone have to interfere ?

-t

goMac · Apr 16, 2006, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Yes. Things really get out of control here. Pseudo-moral or -ethical issues are treated like it was a criminal act. WTF ? They are both over 18, so WHY does anyone have to interfere ?

-t

Because education wise it's not ethical. When you work in education, you're expected to have ethics. School districts can fire teachers over ethics.

turtle777 · Apr 16, 2006, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Because education wise it's not ethical. When you work in education, you're expected to have ethics. School districts can fire teachers over ethics.

And I have no problems with that.
But putting someone to jail for unethical behavior, give me a farkin' break ! I'm all for ethical behavior, but the government is NOT to decide criminal offenses based on ethical mischief.

-t

BRussell · Apr 16, 2006, 11:36 PM

Just for reference, here are the ethical guidelines for psychologists on this issue:

10.05 Sexual Intimacies With Current Therapy Clients/Patients
Psychologists do not engage in sexual intimacies with current therapy clients/patients.

10.06 Sexual Intimacies With Relatives or Significant Others of Current Therapy Clients/Patients
Psychologists do not engage in sexual intimacies with individuals they know to be close relatives, guardians, or significant others of current clients/patients. Psychologists do not terminate therapy to circumvent this standard.

10.07 Therapy With Former Sexual Partners
Psychologists do not accept as therapy clients/patients persons with whom they have engaged in sexual intimacies.

10.08 Sexual Intimacies With Former Therapy Clients/Patients
(a) Psychologists do not engage in sexual intimacies with former clients/patients for at least two years after cessation or termination of therapy.

(b) Psychologists do not engage in sexual intimacies with former clients/patients even after a two-year interval except in the most unusual circumstances. Psychologists who engage in such activity after the two years following cessation or termination of therapy and of having no sexual contact with the former client/patient bear the burden of demonstrating that there has been no exploitation, in light of all relevant factors, including (1) the amount of time that has passed since therapy terminated; (2) the nature, duration, and intensity of the therapy; (3) the circumstances of termination; (4) the client's/patient's personal history; (5) the client's/patient's current mental status; (6) the likelihood of adverse impact on the client/patient; and (7) any statements or actions made by the therapist during the course of therapy suggesting or inviting the possibility of a posttermination sexual or romantic relationship with the client/patient. (See also Standard 3.05, Multiple Relationships.)

turtle777 · Apr 16, 2006, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

Just for reference, here are the ethical guidelines for psychologists on this issue:

What's your point ?

She was neither his teacher, nor at the same school. It's ridiculous.

It's like saying "Our company has a strict non-dating policy. This also extends to dating employees of ANY other company." WTF ?

-t

BRussell · Apr 17, 2006, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

What's your point ?

She was neither his teacher, nor at the same school. It's ridiculous.

It's like saying "Our company has a strict non-dating policy. This also extends to dating employees of ANY other company." WTF ?

-t

I'm not aware of them being at different schools, and it doesn't say that in the article as far as I can tell.

I just don't see why it's so difficult for teachers to not screw students. Surely there are other people they can screw. And there are very obvious reasons why there should be such a rule, just as there are obvious reasons why psychologists shouldn't screw clients.

Maybe in this case it's not such a big deal, especially if it's true that they were at different schools, the student was 18, and the teacher didn't know he was a student. If she didn't know she didn't violate the rule, as far as I'm concerned. But saying that teachers shouldn't screw students just doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

If she gets some kind of draconian punishment, then I'll agree with you (assuming the above facts are true). But as a general principle that would trigger an investigation, I don't have a problem with that. Perhaps it's because I'm in a field that has had lots of problems with this in the past, and now has very strict rules about such things, which I think are totally appropriate.

turtle777 · Apr 17, 2006, 12:13 AM

The main problem I have with it is this:

WTF does the Sheriffs dept. have to do with this ? Why prison time ?
If it was unethical behavior, then the school board has to deal with it.

-t

BRussell · Apr 17, 2006, 12:28 AM

Do you think there shouldn't be any law about teachers having sex with students? It just doesn't seem to be such an unreasonable law to me.

BTW, according to that article, the law specifically says "at the same school."

turtle777 · Apr 17, 2006, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by BRussell

Do you think there shouldn't be any law about teachers having sex with students? It just doesn't seem to be such an unreasonable law to me.
BTW, according to that article, the law specifically says "at the same school."

If both are over 18, I don't think so. What would be the point of patronizing them ? Being 18, they can do so many things I personally would disapprove of (-> unethical behavior), but it's not the purpose of the law to judge any of that.

-t

Jim Paradise · Apr 17, 2006, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by BRussell

Do you think there shouldn't be any law about teachers having sex with students? It just doesn't seem to be such an unreasonable law to me.

BTW, according to that article, the law specifically says "at the same school."

There's nothing wrong with having rules as such, but the thing is that they are both adults, they were not affiliated in such a manner (from what I can tell of the article) where she had power over him, and it seems at the moment there was no harm done. The only harm done was from the fellow's parents going to the police to settle this.

I guess, for some like myself, it's a matter of neither party being hurt, both being consenting adults, and the lady wasn't in a position of power over the fellow even if she was working at that school, so there leaves little in the way of reasoning to suggest that she deserves jail time of sorts for a victimless crime. If the school board wants to fire her, that's fine since it's within their regulations.

Angus_D · Apr 17, 2006, 06:52 AM

Well, in NC it's illegal for an unmarried couple to cohabit, so I think we can conclude that they're just crazy over there.

Cody Dawg · Apr 17, 2006, 08:06 AM

I agree about that.

NC has a lot of stupid laws.

I don't understand gay relationships but if two men want to go at it, fine. In NC it's illegal.

Gamoe · Apr 17, 2006, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

The main problem I have with it is this:

WTF does the Sheriffs dept. have to do with this ? Why prison time ?
If it was unethical behavior, then the school board has to deal with it.

These are my thoughts as well. Law and governments shouldn't get involved with internal matters of an institution where those involved are consenting adults.

UNTeMac · Apr 17, 2006, 08:45 AM

This actually sounds like something that might make the supreme court. That law may be being used in a malicious way a lot like the way the Texas law against sodomy was used in Lawrence v. Texas.

It really is draconian to make it a FELONY for a teacher and student of consenting age to have sex and my unresearched opinion is that this law has almost never been used except in cases where someone really wants to make someone else's life difficult.

turtle777 · Apr 17, 2006, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

NC has a lot of stupid laws.

Alright, I have listened to my customers.

*working_on_Only_in_NC_pic*

-t

JHromadka · Apr 17, 2006, 03:05 PM

Where were these teachers when I was in school?

version · Apr 17, 2006, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by JHromadka

Where were these teachers when I was in school?

I know. Mine was an old boot who had a bottle of whiskey tucked away in her desk, used to see her swig away. The old crone was decked out in bright orange trouser-suit things with black shades.

hmmm, come to think of it, she might have been quite hot....