[TheMosco]

I am 22, so a pretty young voter. I grew up with my dad working 2 jobs, a teacher and x-ray technician on the weekends.

I have always been interested in politics, and like to think of myself as observant and thoughtful.

So is anyone else excited to see Obamo running for president? I can't really explain it other than being really excited.

Why am I excited? When I look at McCain and Bush, I don't really see anything there. I don't get a sense that they are putting in as much careful thought and consideration about issues than even I am, and its their job. I realize that Obama isn't perfect, I don't think anyone can argue that he is, but from listening to him speak, its pretty easy to see that there is certainly a lot going on in his head. Sometimes he seems a little long winded, but I would rather have long winded than no wind at all.

Instead of of McCain saying "here is why i should be president", he says "here is why Obama shouldn't be president". Its just so old. It looks so desperate. For dogging Obama so much for being "inexperienced", it sure seems like McCain doesn't have anything from his experience.

So lets put Obama aside, are any of you republicans honestly excited about McCain being president? Why are you excited? What qualities about McCain make him so appealing to you?

[design219]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

I can't really explain it other than being really excited.

Oh man are you going to get stoned for saying that.

[TheMosco]

I didn't mean to imply that their wasn't substance behind why i was excited. I meant that I probably shouldn't be this excited about it. Its like Christmas or something to me.

[TheMosco]

And just to prove that point I will explain where I am coming from:

I am 22 and just graduated from an engineering university. I work for a software company. I live with 2 civil engineers, a biomedical engineer, and a electric engineer. Technology is a big part of my life.

Technology is one advantage we have over the rest of the world, and I think Obama more than anyone is ready to take advantage of that. Appointing a CTO for the nation is a great step. His plans to open up more of the government information on the internet. Have you ever tried to navigate most government websites? They are bad. His ideas highlight transparency when dealing with technology. Technology has made so many things in our life easier, and Obama understands its potential. McCain? Read his tech stuff, it has no substance.

I agree with Obama on stem cell research, Women's right to choose, civil unions. Obama calls for greater use of contraception education. Basic sense stuff.

And while McCain spends his time trying to stop abortion, and prevent gay/lesbian couples from having their love officially recognized, I want someone to tackle real social issues. I want someone to look at poverty and Obama has shown he is willing to assess the problems and take action. At the same time, McCain releases press releases saying that removing the gas tax is fighting poverty. Its a joke. I feel like McCain thinks the only way to fix poverty is throwing money away which means he doesn't want to do it. I feel like Obama is someone who can examine a problem, and develop a responsible solution.

I could go on and on about why I would support Obama as president with his specific calls for action, but I am at work and don't have the time right now.

However, even though I think he would be a great president, It goes beyond that. I am excited like I probably shouldn't be. You can call him a celebrity all you want, the guy has charisma. That shouldn't be a nock on him, when if you are willing to look beyond the McCain disinformation, there is a lot substance to Obama and I think he has shown the capability to carefully examine all sides to the issues and make appropriate decisions with tact and thoughtfulness.

[Dakar V]

I'm curious who it is that takes the first step towards trying to crush your youthful exuberance.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by design219 

Oh man are you going to get stoned for saying that.

That's what I was thinking, considering that's been the criticism of his campaign all along.

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

I'm curious who it is that takes the first step towards trying to crush your youthful exuberance.

Indeed.

[Mithras]

All I can say is, I was pretty excited when Bill Clinton got elected the first time too. Sigh.

[Eug]

Well, you have to admit Bill made the white house kinda interesting.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That's what I was thinking, considering that's been the criticism of his campaign all along.


Indeed.

I think if people are going to harp on this issue when I am willing to show the substance to back up why I support him, they are failing to address my questions and other comments.

What are you republicans excited about? What qualities about John McCain get you excited?

[Chongo]

my wife thinks Michelle Obama looks like the Grinch

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

I think if people are going to harp on this issue when I am willing to show the substance to back up why I support him, they are failing to address my questions and other comments.

What are you republicans excited about? What qualities about John McCain get you excited?

You misunderstand them, my friend. They're just bristling with anticipation, waiting for someone to come and try to rip into you.

As for me, I envy you your excitement. Even when I was your age, I never felt that way about any of these "leaders." I voted for Clinton, but I wasn't ever "excited." I felt, a few months ago, very excited about Obama's campaign. I was moved by his speech on racism. I was excited about him as a prospective leader.

But it's funny you post this, because I'm sitting here right now (for an entirely different purpose) trying to figure out where that excitement went...

[Mithras]

Michelle Obama is awesome. Smart, dedicated, and with a much better terrorist fist jab than any previous first lady.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

You misunderstand them, my friend. They're just bristling with anticipation, waiting for someone to come and try to rip into you.

As for me, I envy you your excitement. Even when I was your age, I never felt that way about any of these "leaders." I voted for Clinton, but I wasn't ever "excited." I felt, a few months ago, very excited about Obama's campaign. I was moved by his speech on racism. I was excited about him as a prospective leader.

But it's funny you post this, because I'm sitting here right now (for an entirely different purpose) trying to figure out where that excitement went...

I understand what they were saying. I mean in the future, Thats why I said *if* people are going to harp on this point when I am willing to show that the point is invalid then their are trolling for no reason.

I guess people just think Obama all flash, and think there is no substance. But at the same time mccain doesn't have any flash and I don't think he has much substance. So what gets them excited about McCain?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

I understand what they were saying. I mean in the future, Thats why I said *if* people are going to harp on this point when I am willing to show that the point is invalid then their are trolling for no reason.

I guess people just think Obama all flash, and think there is no substance. But at the same time mccain doesn't have any flash and I don't think he has much substance. So what gets them excited about McCain?

Who said people are excited about McCain?

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Who said people are excited about McCain?

I don't know. That was my first McCain related question in my first post. Are people excited? If So, what qualities excite you?

[subego]

That Obama will merely disappoint me, rather than enrage me like McCain, is about all the excitement I can muster for this round.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

So what gets them excited about McCain?

He's not a Dem.
That's what makes people excited about McCain.

Back when you were 11, a lot of uninformed people were excited (for no real reason) about the "change" which a certain politician would bring. They even had a suitable theme song with D:Ream's "Things Can Only Get Better".

Did things get better? Nope. They got worse. Much worse.


So it's really a very good job for the US that McCain's going to win by five points, ain't it?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

I don't know. That was my first McCain related question in my first post. Are people excited? If So, what qualities excite you?

If there is actually anyone here truly excited about McCain per se, I don't think they'd actually be brave enough to admit it.

[kido331]

McCain wants to balance the budget by 2013. Obama wants paygo and will run deficits throughout his presidency.

McCain wants to eliminate earmarks. Obama wants to cut them back to 2001 levels.

McCain wants to lower corporate income tax levels from 35% to 25% to make the cost of doing business in America less expensive. Obama wants to increase taxes on wealthy individuals, increase taxes on corporations, re-introduce a windfall profits tax, and implement a carbon tax. All of which make it more expensive to do business in America, and then when those companies move jobs overseas - raise their taxes even more by cutting off subsidizes.

None of this makes me excited for McCain, but it does make me think he is the more sensible choice of the two.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

He's not a Dem.
That's what makes people excited about McCain.

So it's really a very good job for the US that McCain's going to win by five points, ain't it?

I understand that my political history certainly doesn't stack up against against yours, as I am only 22. But I have grown up in the last 8 years and haven't really seen much leadership from the president that inspires me to show respect to my fellow man and address problems from every angle.

But I wanted to know what gets your excited about McCain based on his own merits. Thats why I said lets put Obama aside in my first post. What gets people excited about McCain, if at all? What about inspires you about him?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

But I wanted to know what gets your excited about McCain based on his own merits. What about inspires you about him?

Nothing. McCain is simply the least of two evils.

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm so excited
And I just can't hide it (yeah, yeah, yeaaaah)
I'm about to lose control, and I think I like it

[Doofy]

BTW, referring to your first post and how you think Bush and McCain are doing nothing... ...well, sometimes it's a good thing to be doing nothing. The art of doing the job properly is knowing when to do something and knowing when to do nothing. Part of the reason why my country is so screwed up at the moment is because the government doesn't know when to simply leave well alone - it changes everything constantly, probably just so it's seen to be doing something.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I'm so excited
And I just can't hide it (yeah, yeah, yeaaaah)
I'm about to lose control, and I think I like it

Wait. You're about to lose control?
<looks at SpaceMonkey's location>

Welcome to the forum, Mr. President.

Neither candidate makes me excited. Or, even interested for that matter.

Besides, aren't presidents just figureheads for those "truly" in power behind the scenes??

Yeah, yeah. I'm grumpy.

[Mithras]

Originally Posted by kido331 

McCain wants to balance the budget by 2013.

You might want to check into just how he plans to get the budget balanced. (Hint: he doesn't have any particular plan at all.) Read:

But it is unclear how McCain plans to balance the budget, given that fiscal analysts who have examined his plans say that his calls to extend the Bush tax cuts while cutting corporate and other taxes would probably increase the federal budget deficit significantly, because he is not calling for comparable spending cuts.

[olePigeon]

I think this election is exciting because it's so historical. As much as Republicans like to downplay the importance of this election, a black man has a very good chance of winning the presidency. Aside from Obama winning the nomination, it was equally exciting to see not just a black man run for nomination, but also a woman (both of which had decent chances of winning the nomination and the presidency.)

I'm voting or Obama in hopes that more unlikely candidates will come forward, and hopefully, a candidate I can agree with politically.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

He's not a Dem.

What a stupid reason.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I'm so excited
And I just can't hide it (yeah, yeah, yeaaaah)
I'm about to lose control, and I think I like it

And I know I know I know I know I know I want him.

We shouldn't even think about tomorrow.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

What a stupid reason.

Unlike, say, being exciting because he's got a tan?

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

BTW, referring to your first post and how you think Bush and McCain are doing nothing... ...well, sometimes it's a good thing to be doing nothing. The art of doing the job properly is knowing when to do something and knowing when to do nothing. Part of the reason why my country is so screwed up at the moment is because the government doesn't know when to simply leave well alone - it changes everything constantly, probably just so it's seen to be doing something.

Where did I say that in my first post? I said that when I look at them, I don't see anything. I see nothing inspiring about them. I see no thought. I see no due diligence. I see no tact. I see no effort to think about things intelligently and from different perspectives.

Q: Hey John McCain, why would you handle the economy better than Mit Romney?
A: Cause I am a leader. Cause I was a POW. Cause I know how to handle terrorists. Cause I am a leader.

Thanks for that insight John McCain, you truely inspire me to be a better, more informed, more thoughtful person. I wouldn't call that being a leader.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

Where did I say that in my first post?

Originally Posted by TheMosco

I don't get a sense that they are putting in as much careful thought and consideration about issues than even I am, and its their job.

And then you just said basically the same thing again:

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

I see no effort to think about things intelligently and from different perspectives.

So basically unless they're running around with a big banner telling you that they're doing something... ...anything... ...you think they're not doing their job.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Unlike, say, being exciting because he's got a tan?

Like I said, downplaying the importance. It's not his "tan" that has me excited, it's a very important shift in our political structure. A non-white male has a chance to win the presidency and give a unique perspective as well as solutions to our nations problems.

We've known what ails white male aristocratic Americans, we've known for the past 200+ years. I'm hoping for some positive change to this country and our outlook on what qualifies a person as a great president.

I voted for Clinton in the primary, the reason was that she would get a lot of votes from Republican women; it would force some people to reconsider how they vote. I want to see people vote by reason, not by party boundaries.

So yes, not voting for someone only because they're a Democrat or Republican is a stupid reason.

"They [political parties] serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation, the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community." - George Washington. He called it perfectly.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

So basically unless they're running around with a big banner telling you that they're doing something... ...anything... ...you think they're not doing their job.

No, McCain's doing his job as is expected of a Republican. He won't offer any unique perspective or insight because he will be constrained by Republican ideals. He won't inspire anyone because he's more of the same.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

So is anyone else excited to see Obamo running for president? I can't really explain it other than being really excited.

No offense but eventually reality will set in and your youthful exuberance shall pass. It's pretty naive to think that this man is anything more or different than any of the previous Democrat candidates, and that he will bring anything more than hollow rhetoric and political posturing.

Look at what he says, his education, career, ideals and ideas etc.…look at him purely on an intellectual and policy basis. The ONLY things that separate him from every other Dem politician are his ability to recite speeches that other people write and make them sound as if they are coming from HIM, and race.

Were he a 47-year-old WHITE MALE with identical experience, intellectual/political prowess, and ideas he wouldn't have stood a chance against Hilary. I don't think he would even be on the radar.

I hold that most of the support we are seeing for Obama outside of the Democratic party is not support FOR him, but rather against McCain. He doesn't have overwhelming support of his party and independent voters seem to buy the idea that he is another, if older, Bush.

So lets put Obama aside, are any of you republicans honestly excited about McCain being president? Why are you excited? What qualities about McCain make him so appealing to you?

I like to consider myself as only slightly republican-leaning these days but I'll answer. No, McCain is not exciting or enticing at all. I DO however ever-so-slightly prefer him over Obama. (that's not saying much for either of them) Here's how I see it:

• McCain is slightly more likely to do what I would like in the White House.
• He seems far more likely to do what he thinks is right rather than just doing what his party says.
• I don't want the same party in the White House and the Congress.
• There has been some flap over how much money McCain has but as I see it they are both more wealthy than most of the people whom they are supposed to be representing. However, one of these candidates actually knows what it means to suffer and sacrifice.

All that being said, I think that this is as relevant now as ever.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

No, McCain's doing his job as is expected of a Republican. He won't offer any unique perspective or insight because he will be constrained by Republican ideals. He won't inspire anyone because he's more of the same.

I see you haven't paid any attention to his career at all. He's never been one to blindly follow his party.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I see you haven't paid any attention to his career at all. He's never been one to blindly follow his party.

This man is telling the truth. Many Republicans actually dislike McCain for being too buddy-buddy with the liberals.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And then you just said basically the same thing again:



So basically unless they're running around with a big banner telling you that they're doing something... ...anything... ...you think they're not doing their job.

Thats not it at all. If I ask you why you did something, and your answer doesn't explain it, then you either don't have enough brain power to articulate an explanation, or you know your reason isn't good enough.

I am not looking for McCain wear I sign saying i am doing this and that, I am looking for McCain to demonstrate he is capable of critical thinking. Its exciting to have someone running that I not only agree with politically, but also believe has the ability to critically analyze situations as they arise.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

Thats not it at all. If I ask you why you did something, and your answer doesn't explain it, then you either don't have enough brain power to articulate an explanation, or you know your reason isn't good enough.

OOooo. The "you're stupid!" comeback. Never heard that from a Dem before. No siree!

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

I am not looking for McCain wear I sign saying i am doing this and that, I am looking for McCain to demonstrate he is capable of critical thinking.

How would you like him to do that?

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

Its exciting to have someone running that I not only agree with politically, but also believe has the ability to critically analyze situations as they arise.

Sorry, this shows your bias. I'm guessing here but if McCain was to cure cancer tomorrow you'd still want more from him... ...he still wouldn't be exciting enough.

Typical, frilly, emotion-driven Dem - that's all I see here.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

A non-white male has a chance to win the presidency and give a unique perspective as well as solutions to our nations problems.

Who gives a toss what colour he is? Not me. But you guys seem to. Odd. Is this why you're all so excited - because you're all racist?

Anyways. I think you seriously underestimate just how fsked your country is. It's peaked and you're gonna hit the bottom big style within the next 20 years. No amount of "unique perspective!" is going to save you. The party's over and you're going down the pooper. Get used to it.
If you have any sense, you'll be able to ride it out. If you're going to be relying on the government to help you, well you're SOL.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I see you haven't paid any attention to his career at all. He's never been one to blindly follow his party.

I have been reading about this. The more stuff I read, the less this seems to be true. The media seems to blindly call him a maverick, but even limited research will show you that he votes for his part a very high percentage of the time.

Others argue that when he does vote against the party, they are big differences. But does mean that republicans should feel comfortable voting for someone that doesn't follow their party on major issues? If they aren't major issues does he deserve being hailed as a maverick? There are other politicians that seem to switch sides that don't get the same press. All interesting stuff that I want to know about. I will admit I am not Congressional scholar, but it seems like the most popular stuff out there is not siding with McCain being a Maverick. On my list of things to do.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

A non-white male has a chance to win the presidency and give a unique perspective as well as solutions to our nations problems.

He was raised by white people, lived in Hawaii, attended a prep school and attended an elitist, Ivy league college.

Wow. What a perspective he must have.

It's not about his color. Nope. No sir.

If his perspectives are so unique and they bring soooo much to the table then why does nearly everything he says sound exactly like nearly everything we have heard before from those on the left? He's just saying it better than most. When it's pre-written for him that is.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

OOooo. The "you're stupid!" comeback. Never heard that from a Dem before. No siree!

I am not calling anyone stupid. I think you missed my point or I didn't explain it well enogh. I am saying that their reasons aren't good enough because they don't put enough thought into anything.

How would you like him to do that?

I am on the internet alot, and I watch a lot of video. And time and time again I am let down with what McCain says. I am looking for wisdom and I never find it. If he is so experienced, I want to know what experiences influence his answers. Whats the point of answering questions while touting your experience if you aren't going to explain why your experiences makes you more qualified that someone else.

Sorry, this shows your bias. I'm guessing here but if McCain was to cure cancer tomorrow you'd still want more from him... ...he still wouldn't be exciting enough.

Typical, frilly, emotion-driven Dem - that's all I see here.

What does this have to do with anything? I am certainly biased toward Obama, thats why I am excited...


For John McCain heralding himself as such a great leader, its nice to see everyone in here being inspired by him.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

I have been reading about this. The more stuff I read, the less this seems to be true. The media seems to blindly call him a maverick, but even limited research will show you that he votes for his part a very high percentage of the time.

Others argue that when he does vote against the party, they are big differences. But does mean that republicans should feel comfortable voting for someone that doesn't follow their party on major issues? If they aren't major issues does he deserve being hailed as a maverick? There are other politicians that seem to switch sides that don't get the same press. All interesting stuff that I want to know about. I will admit I am not Congressional scholar, but it seems like the most popular stuff out there is not siding with McCain being a Maverick. On my list of things to do.

I'm not saying that he doesn't vote with his party. Of course he does, why would he even be IN that party if he didn't agree on a certain number of issues/ideals?

What I'm saying is that the idea that he blindly follows his party is absurd. Yes, he has toed the line on certain close votes but when you look at legislation he has supported and his record on a number of issues like guns, energy or taxes he clearly is not toeing the party line.

His new found "conservatism" conveniently came about as the election season got closer and closer.

I really don't like to be in the position of defending McCain, but this idea that he is a typical Republican only came about because of the election. It wasn't all that long ago that the McCain was applauded by the Democrats for his independence. Funny that.

[goMac]

I won't be excited until Obama wins.

Seriously. We went through this last election. No way Bush was going to win. Kerry was going to destroy Bush. Everything was going to be better. Blah blah bah.

Bush won, Kerry lost, and we had four more years of idiocy. The American public has buyers remorse and Bush's approval ratings are at an all time low.

Yet the same people I know who voted for Bush and then realized what an idiot he was are now voting for McCain because "he's entirely different." Yeah, whatever. I just don't have a lot of confidence in the intelligence of the American public.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I'm not saying that he doesn't vote with his party. Of course he does, why would he even be IN that party if he didn't agree on a certain number of issues/ideals?

What I'm saying is that the idea that he blindly follows his party is absurd. Yes, he has toed the line on certain close votes but when you look at legislation he has supported and his record on a number of issues like guns, energy or taxes he clearly is not toeing the party line.

His new found "conservatism" conveniently came about as the election season got closer and closer.

I really don't like to be in the position of defending McCain, but this idea that he is a typical Republican only came about because of the election. It wasn't all that long ago that the McCain was applauded by the Democrats for his independence. Funny that.

Good point. I see what you are saying. You were just saying he doesn't always vote the party line, and I was saying he might not be a maverick. I should have read that differently. But that still leads to these questions.

But does mean that republicans should feel comfortable voting for someone that doesn't follow their party on major issues? If they aren't major issues does he deserve being hailed as a maverick?

But like I said, It would be interesting to compare him other centrist voters that don't get the same press.

[RAILhead]

Excited about Obama? About how he's going to punish me because I'm wealthy by MAKING me pay for Government programs whether I want to support them or not? About how he's going to limit my freedoms and liberties by imposing taxes on my lifestyle? About how he's a Marxist?

[turtle777]

If I could vote, I'd vote McCain.

The Russians are coming, and Obama could not stop them.

-t

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by kido331 

McCain wants to lower corporate income tax levels from 35% to 25% to make the cost of doing business in America less expensive. Obama wants to increase taxes on wealthy individuals, increase taxes on corporations, re-introduce a windfall profits tax, and implement a carbon tax. All of which make it more expensive to do business in America, and then when those companies move jobs overseas - raise their taxes even more by cutting off subsidizes.

None of this makes me excited for McCain, but it does make me think he is the more sensible choice of the two.

And in turn, take those taxes to help decrease poverty, and increase the wages for the middle class.

Increasing corporate tax is completely different than increasing tax on businesses. Small businesses will be unaffected by it, which is a good thing since small business helps promote local economies.

Also, why should it be alright for a large corporation, that makes quite a bit of profits, to move jobs overseas, save money, and continue to receive government subsidies? The subsidies should be given when the corporation employs American citizens, not when their operations are overseas. I would rather not see my tax dollars subsidize a corporation that doesn't want to employ other tax paying citizens.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

And in turn, take those taxes to help decrease poverty, and increase the wages for the middle class.

Increasing corporate tax is completely different than increasing tax on businesses. Small businesses will be unaffected by it, which is a good thing since small business helps promote local economies.

Also, why should it be alright for a large corporation, that makes quite a bit of profits, to move jobs overseas, save money, and continue to receive government subsidies? The subsidies should be given when the corporation employs American citizens, not when their operations are overseas. I would rather not see my tax dollars subsidize a corporation that doesn't want to employ other tax paying citizens.

Why does it make sense to increase the financial pressures on a corporation in an environment where wages are stagnating and jobs are being outsourced? It is precisely BECAUSE of the cost of doing business here that they take it elsewhere. They want to improve their profits and it is getting increasingly difficult to do that here. Taxes and over-regulation are just a couple of reasons why.

With the shipping times, increasing fuel costs and the logistics of doing business overseas, I think that most corporations would much prefer to do most or all of their manufacturing here.

Corporate taxes need to be ELIMINATED, not increased. THAT is how you will increase wages and create new jobs. We are competing with third-world and totalitarian manipulated labor costs. There IS still value in American manufacturing in terms of quality and productivity and at a decent wage. We need to put aside this childish anti-corporation and class warfare so we can get back in the game.