[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Here is a PS3 question. If I play a DVD that is in 4:3 the PS3 is stretching it to widescreen. How do I keep it on 4:3 for those types of disks?

Shouldn't you be setting that on your TV?

Or are you talking about upscaled to 1080i?

What about 4:3 Blu-ray material (like the extras on your Corpse Bride disc)?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Shouldn't you be setting that on your TV?

Or are you talking about upscaled to 1080i?

What about 4:3 Blu-ray material (like the extras on your Corpse Bride disc)?

I dunno what I am supposed to do. I put in some star trek DVD"s that are obviously 4:3 so i want black bars on the side of the screen when they play.

I thought you normally set this on the DVD player no? I never change the screen ratio on the TV as it is always set to FULL. If when watching TV i want 4:3 and not stretched the TV receiver lets me change it.

Haven't tried the extra's on a Blu-ray yet.

I guess all I can say at this point is: Typical Microsoft. Why on earth I finally gave them money for one of their products (X360) is beyond me. I should of known better. Never again.

My 360 is connected via VGA to a front projector (720p). Looks great. Upscaled DVDs look great. It became my only DVD video player. All around a happy camper (save GoW resolution problems over VGA but that is Epic's horrific QC ****-up). I downloaded the lastest 360 update last week without a problem and stuff even looks better than before. Even fixed a nagging resolution problem I had. I was pretty happy.

Over the weekend, which is really the only time I have to play games, the 360 locked up. Not once or twice but all the freakin' time. I didn't have anytime to investigate so forgot about it. Until I stumbled across this tonight on Engadget:

While Xbox 360 users with 1080p displays enthusiastically greeted last week's dashboard update, it seems some folks are finding that the update is causing more problems than it fixes, with reports of random crashes, bricked consoles, and various display issues filling the forums on the official Xbox site, among other sites. From the looks of it, the majority of problems appear to be coming from those using VGA connections and resolutions less than 1080p, though there seems to be no limit to those affected. Amending his initial post on the update, which also saw a flurry of complaints from disgruntled 360 users in the comments section, Microsoft's Major Nelson says that the company is aware of the problems and that they are investigating it, although there's no indication when a fix for the fix will be available.

I am not an XBOX beta tester so please, Microsoft XBOX Division, PLEASE STOP TREATING ME AS ONE! I have a useless piece of hardware now until they get their **** together. Hooking up component will cost me hours fishing the wire back to the projector. It is NOT an option.

I know it's been brought up before, somewhere in the murky depths of this thread, but I'm pissed and need to reiterate: QC for video games and systems is abhorant nowadays when things can always get "updated" after a release. I have 25 year old video game systems that still work - you plug it into the AC, hook it to a TV and turn it on and play. What a novel idea!

"That's just the way things are nowadays", is a pathetic attempt to give these bastards the green light to keep producing and selling ****.

If this is next-gen, I think I'm going to bow out of gaming at this juncture and go actually play a game - on my Odyssey.

[icruise]

As much as I don't like to be in the position of defending Microsoft (and don't get me wrong, it sucks that your Xbox is out of commission, even temporarily), I don't think it's reasonable to expect these things to be perfect. Game consoles are now computers in every sense of the word. They have operating systems and access the internet and incredibly complex machines in general. We're long beyond the point where you could just plug in a cartridge and go, so to compare them to the consoles of 10-20 years ago is really not fair.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by icruise 

As much as I don't like to be in the position of defending Microsoft (and don't get me wrong, it sucks that your Xbox is out of commission, even temporarily), I don't think it's reasonable to expect these things to be perfect. Game consoles are now computers in every sense of the word. They have operating systems and access the internet and incredibly complex machines in general. We're long beyond the point where you could just plug in a cartridge and go, so to compare them to the consoles of 10-20 years ago is really not fair.

If what you're trying to get at is that the console makers have bitten off more than they can chew, I can only suggest they should not have done so. They have more control over the whole package than Apple does, for crying out loud.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

If what you're trying to get at is that the console makers have bitten off more than they can chew, I can only suggest they should not have done so. They have more control over the whole package than Apple does, for crying out loud.

I have to agree with icruise on this one. Console makers are at the mercy of an ever-changing environment. Cut them some slack.

Originally Posted by icruise 

As much as I don't like to be in the position of defending Microsoft (and don't get me wrong, it sucks that your Xbox is out of commission, even temporarily), I don't think it's reasonable to expect these things to be perfect. Game consoles are now computers in every sense of the word. They have operating systems and access the internet and incredibly complex machines in general. We're long beyond the point where you could just plug in a cartridge and go, so to compare them to the consoles of 10-20 years ago is really not fair.

Whilst I agree with most of your statement, it's not like reproduction of the problem is rocket science: Hook VGA cable up to 720p display, apply latest update and bingo. You can go on all day about the "complexities" of today's technology but this problem is utter lazyness and shitty QC. I am in a tech job for a living. Have been for years. If I sent out an update to the corporate network that started bricking machines, I would expect to be fired.

At least mine boots. There's a whole **** load of people who got the red light ring of death after applying the update - so if there was a fix (to the fix of the fix), they couldn't apply it. MS's answer? $140 for repair.

GoW was a similar problem. They never tested it on a 720p display with VGA so they didn't know the game resolution was all distorted. "Oh, whoops!". Hopefully my $60 will help fund some more untrained monkeys for your QC lab, Epic.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

I have to agree with icruise on this one. Console makers are at the mercy of an ever-changing environment. Cut them some slack.

An "everchanging environment"? Did the wiring in the Xbox suddenly up and mutate? Are these problems occurring because people are randomly installing different processors in there? No, Microsoft broke something with a software patch and is being lax about fixing it. The only "change" came from Microsoft.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

If what you're trying to get at is that the console makers have bitten off more than they can chew, I can only suggest they should not have done so. They have more control over the whole package than Apple does, for crying out loud.

Apple is a good example. Every software update that Apple brings out seems to cause a problem with someone's setup somewhere. Admittedly there are a lot fewer variables with a games console in terms of how it is used and the accessories that are used with it, but I don't really see why console makers should be expected to be perfect when computer/OS makers are not. They are producing very similar products, when all is said and done.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Apple is a good example. Every software update that Apple brings out seems to cause a problem with someone's setup somewhere. Admittedly there are a lot fewer variables with a games console in terms of how it is used and the accessories that are used with it, but I don't really see why console makers should be expected to be perfect when computer/OS makers are not. They are producing very similar products, when all is said and done.

The only time Apple did anything like this is the iTunes installer that wiped secondary hard drives, and that wasn't responded to with, "Oh, well, we don't know when we'll get around to fixing that. We'll probably do it sometime, maybe." And even then, nobody acted like it was OK and to be expected for iTunes to wipe your drive, like everybody is doing here.

Like I said, they don't have to be absolutely perfect (all complex systems have problems). But if they can't handle this kind of commitment — at the bare minimum, by not breaking people's Xboxes — they shouldn't be getting into the market and charging $400 for it.

[icruise]

Apparently you don't keep abreast of the problems that Apple's software updates cause. The major ones pretty much ALWAYS break something for a limited subset of users. The most recent 10.4.8 update has caused a lot of trouble with Airport stability for some people's Intel Macs, for example. I'm not really trying to excuse Microsoft's incompetence in this case, since clearly they shouldn't have released something that would cause a problem like this. What I am responding to is the idea that console makers should be held to different standards than computer makers. That makes no sense to me.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Apparently you don't keep abreast of the problems that Apple's software updates cause. The major ones pretty much ALWAYS break something for a limited subset of users. The most recent 10.4.8 update has caused a lot of trouble with Airport stability for some people's Intel Macs, for example. I'm not really trying to excuse Microsoft's incompetence in this case, since clearly they shouldn't have released something that would cause a problem like this. What I am responding to is the idea that console makers should be held to different standards than computer makers. That makes no sense to me.

It makes sense to me. Console makers make the OS. They make the hardware. Neither the OS nor the hardware is meant to be modified in any way by anybody else. They have basically one target configuration here. That's a degree of control even Apple would be envious of. Why should they be held to the same standards as a kind of company that has to deal with hundreds of times more complexity?

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

An "everchanging environment"? Did the wiring in the Xbox suddenly up and mutate? Are these problems occurring because people are randomly installing different processors in there? No, Microsoft broke something with a software patch and is being lax about fixing it. The only "change" came from Microsoft.

Um, so, you're telling me that every peripheral, every TV, every network protocol from now until 2016 is all ready to go in the PS3, Xbox, and Wii?

Right?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

Um, so, you're telling me that every peripheral, every TV, every network protocol from now until 2016 is all ready to go in the PS3, Xbox, and Wii?

Right?

No. Are you telling me a protocol that doesn't exist caused Xboxes to fry?

What you're telling me is, "Well, the environment might change in the future, and then Microsoft would have a legitimate excuse for things not working, right?" And to that I say: You're right. But that isn't the situation here. Microsoft can't blame its problems on things that haven't happened.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

No. Are you telling me a protocol that doesn't exist caused Xboxes to fry?

Where did I say that?

Consoles aren't static machines anymore.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

Where did I say that?

Consoles aren't static machines anymore.

And? What does that have to do with the situation at hand? It's not like somebody hacked some cutting-edge chipset into these Xboxes and that's what caused them to break. If anything, the fact that Microsoft can't get its **** together in optimal conditions makes me worried for how Microsoft will handle it when radical changes do come.

[starman]

They'll fix it. Chill.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

They'll fix it. Chill.

Someday. And the people who spend $200 to fix their Xboxes that Microsoft broke will even be able to apply it, I suppose.

[Eug Wanker]

Viva Piñata looks interesting. Maybe I'll get it after I finish Call of Duty 2.



--

For some people, it sounds like the new PS3 update is something you may want to avoid:

In the old firmware, 720p had higher priority over 1080i. The new firmware update reverses this so 1080i has higher priority over 720p. The problem here is, if you play the following, this is what you'll get:

A game that only supports 720p, you'll get 720p

A game that supports up to 1080p, you'll get 1080i instead of 720p

Blu-Ray movie 1080i

If you try to disable the 1080i resolution to always get 720p, the problem is when you play Blu-Ray movies, you'll only get 480p.

This is a significant step backwards and before you update your system, be sure you know what kind of functionality change you'll be getting. I'm going to hold out for now till they fix this.

[ort888]

Viva Pinata seems like the sleeper hit of the year. It's getting rave reviews and user feedback.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

For some people, it sounds like the new PS3 update is something you may want to avoid:

I just encountered it when playing with my PS3.

You don't have to avoid it you just have to make sure if you have a 720 set you have 1080i turned on.

[TETENAL]

There is now a comparison of the graphics between the PS3 and the XBOX:

Xbox 360 Versus PlayStation 3 Graphics Comparison - Features at GameSpot

Need for Speed clearly has the better graphics in the PS3 (although not by a big margin). I disagree with the tester here.

Altogether it looks like the power of the PS3 currently lies idle.

Originally Posted by icruise 

Apparently you don't keep abreast of the problems that Apple's software updates cause. The major ones pretty much ALWAYS break something for a limited subset of users. The most recent 10.4.8 update has caused a lot of trouble with Airport stability for some people's Intel Macs, for example. I'm not really trying to excuse Microsoft's incompetence in this case, since clearly they shouldn't have released something that would cause a problem like this. What I am responding to is the idea that console makers should be held to different standards than computer makers. That makes no sense to me.

The thing is, I could revert back to 10.4.7 if I had that problem and all would be good. Or, restore from a backup if I lost data from an iTunes update. You can't revert a 360 to a previous state. If that was the case, it would be a very small issue.

Funnily enough, Microsoft's Fall Update for the 360 has picked up the moniker "Microsoft's FU" by the disgruntled masses.

Originally Posted by starman 

Consoles aren't static machines anymore.

They're not? Just how many different configuration are out there of a 360?

[icruise]

For the people who have used it, what do you think of the PS3 controller? I have mixed feelings. It's basically a dualshock controller, so I guess it depends a lot on whether you liked that design or not. I did. But the SIXAXIS is much lighter than a dualshock controller, which is surprising at first. Some people say it makes it feel cheap, but I actually think it feels good in the hand and the lightness of it means that you don't get tired of holding it for long periods. The lower 2 shoulder buttons are totally weird, though. They made them more like triggers, and that does allow them to have analog control, but they just don't feel right. And what is with having to plug in the controller using the (very short) USB cable whenever you do a system update? Weird stuff.

By the way, did you notice that the controller is actually make of a translucent plastic (just as the outside of the PS3 itself is)? You can see lights through the controller shell, and if you shine a laser pointer or something through one of the "handles" it will go all the way to the other side.

The lack of rumble is disappointing. I can't believe that Sony decided to get rid of it just because of that lawsuit, but apparently they did. The funny part was that they shoehorned in the motion sensing functions, apparently as a way to make it look like we weren't losing as much. I read a quote from Kaz Hirai implying that rumble wasn't really necessary and that motion sensing was the wave of the future. Well, I really prefer having the rumble, and I would probably choose it in preference to a half-assed motion sensing feature. I did try out the motion sensing in the Motorstorm demo and it seemed to work OK. It's just like the Wii remote in that sense -- you steer by tilting the controller. I can't say that it's better than normal control, though, and in some ways it is worse because there is no tactile feedback.

Overall, I'd say that the Xbox 360 has the best controller, but the PS3 one isn't bad by any means. I like the fact that it has the built-in rechargeable battery.

[starman]

I really like the SIXAXIS controller, but I also miss the rumble feature. It's not cheap, it's just light.

[starman]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

They're not? Just how many different configuration are out there of a 360?

When you bought a console pre-Xbox, it never changed. Ever. If there was a bug, so be it. Now you HAVE to modify the OS to keep up with changes around the unit.

I should ask YOU this: is the Xbox 360 that you buy in the store the same one you'll have an hour after you hook it up to the net?

No.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

There is now a comparison of the graphics between the PS3 and the XBOX:

Xbox 360 Versus PlayStation 3 Graphics Comparison - Features at GameSpot

Need for Speed clearly has the better graphics in the PS3 (although not by a big margin). I disagree with the tester here.

Altogether it looks like the power of the PS3 currently lies idle.

It looks to me that here (and in other titles) that the PS3 has better lighting effects, but I've liked the textures on the 360 versions better.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by starman 

When you bought a console pre-Xbox, it never changed. Ever. If there was a bug, so be it. Now you HAVE to modify the OS to keep up with changes around the unit.

I should ask YOU this: is the Xbox 360 that you buy in the store the same one you'll have an hour after you hook it up to the net?

No.

His point though is there is NO hardware difference, just 'patched' firmware differences. I personally hate the 'updated' console era for the same reason. Now games can be rushed to market and fixed later. As we see now with launch issues with both of the two giants here. His point is, if the machines were setup without this 'DL patch me later' agenda, more time would be have to be done in Q&A and testing to make sure it is READY for launch and not rushed. The hardware doesn't change, there is one version to code for, so you dont have to worry about 'dancing' specs. The reason people buy consoles over computer games is they just plug it in and go. You can't do that anymore, because you damn near have to patch them both now before you even play the first game. God forbid, if someone doesn't have internet access (not too likely, but possible), they are up the creek, without a paddle. At least with the PC you can understand because you have to test for a ton of configurations and processors.

[starman]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

At least with the PC you can understand because you have to test for a ton of configurations and processors.

We're talking about two different things.

Patching games is one thing, patching the system for external equipment is another. Hence, your post that I quoted confuses me. If you're ok with "different configurations" for PCs, why not for consoles? External devices and displays have issues, forcing the console manufacturers to update the system, along with other reasons for it.

[ort888]

I think you guys are exaggerating the problem. Every 6 months or so, I turn on my Xbox and see a message about an update. I hit OK, wait 30 seconds and go on about my day.

That's pretty much the end of it. It's really not a huge deal.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

God forbid, if someone doesn't have internet access (not too likely, but possible), they are up the creek, without a paddle. At least with the PC you can understand because you have to test for a ton of configurations and processors.

Well, if they didn't have internet access, they wouldn't be updating their console in the first place, so this issue wouldn't really be a problem for them. It's not as if manufacturers are putting out games that can't be used without an update.

And I really can't agree with the idea that because games or consoles can be updated that manufacturers are using that as an excuse to ship buggy games. The fact of the matter is that bugs in games are nothing new, and you see them just as much in games for systems that can't be updated, like the last-gen systems. Given the choice, I'd much rather have the option to get those things fixed.

[exca1ibur]

Buggy games were rare and far inbetween last generation because it had to be done right. That is my point. Right now, time to market is more important than product quality. I dont know about you, but I have a problem with that.

Well, if they didn't have internet access, they wouldn't be updating their console in the first place, so this issue wouldn't really be a problem for them. It's not as if manufacturers are putting out games that can't be used without an update.

Thats my point if there is a bug, you are stuck with that bug until you DO get internet access is all I mean.

I'd just like to have more efficient Q&A, and not feel like a beta tester is all I'm saying. With all the patching and issues with bugs on launch here it just seems like a lot of hit and miss with things that I think should have been caught.

If you're ok with "different configurations" for PCs, why not for consoles?

The reason for consoles, in the first place, was to break that cycle.

Originally Posted by starman 

We're talking about two different things.

Patching games is one thing, patching the system for external equipment is another. Hence, your post that I quoted confuses me. If you're ok with "different configurations" for PCs, why not for consoles? External devices and displays have issues, forcing the console manufacturers to update the system, along with other reasons for it.

So, you'd be quite contect to fork over $160 to Microsoft to fix the machine they broke with an update?

[starman]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

So, you'd be quite contect to fork over $160 to Microsoft to fix the machine they broke with an update?

That makes no sense.

Originally Posted by starman 

When you bought a console pre-Xbox, it never changed. Ever. If there was a bug, so be it. Now you HAVE to modify the OS to keep up with changes around the unit.

I should ask YOU this: is the Xbox 360 that you buy in the store the same one you'll have an hour after you hook it up to the net?

No.

Hence, the need for better QC, right?

[ort888]

1st party games frequently ship with updates on them so people without internet access can have their consoles updated.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Buggy games were rare and far inbetween last generation because it had to be done right. That is my point. Right now, time to market is more important than product quality. I dont know about you, but I have a problem with that.

I think you're misinterpreting the situation. It seems like you're saying that because updates are released for next-gen games that they must be buggy and because no updates were released for previous-gen games, they must have been done right. But have you actually experienced a large number of noticeable bugs in next-gen games? I have not.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by icruise 

But have you actually experienced a large number of noticeable bugs in next-gen games? I have not.

Call of Duty 2 on the 360 shipped with some egregious bugs IMO.

Originally Posted by starman 

That makes no sense.

Just meaning that your opinion seems to be that it's "just the way it is", people should live with it.

For one of the biggest coprorations in the world to miss something so basic is craptacular, at best.

[starman]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

Hence, the need for better QC, right?

NO!

Christ Almighty. I'm talking about things like RSS support, iPod support, and THOSE kinds of things.

And why do you think games should be perfect when other kinds of software have bugs?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by itai195 

Call of Duty 2 on the 360 shipped with some egregious bugs IMO.

Like what? I played through most of that game and didn't notice anything in particular. Although I must admit that I can't recall if I downloaded an update for it or not (and I suppose the fact that the updates are so painless might make it seem like there are fewer problems than there are). But I've played a LOT of buggy last-gen games. I don't see how you can make the argument that last-gen games have much fewer bugs.

[itai195]

It was pretty widely reported last year that the save system and online play in CoD2 were broken in various ways. Lots of users had corrupt save games and experienced lag online. More recently, there are some online play bugs in Rainbow Six.

Anyway, I don't personally mind the updates in general. But I don't think consoles are comparable to computers, they're a much simpler environment and there's no excuse for an update to ever brick a console.

Originally Posted by starman 

NO!

Christ Almighty. I'm talking about things like RSS support, iPod support, and THOSE kinds of things.

And why do you think games should be perfect when other kinds of software have bugs?

All code has bugs, I know that.

Showstopping ones like what I've experienced for GoW - virtually unplayable because the screen is all distorted, is horrific QC. From CliffyBs own words, "We never thought to test the game on a 720p 4:3 screen".

Hardware bugs should be taken with much more seriousness than software. There's a mass of people who now have to pay $160 to Microsoft to fix a problem Microsoft CAUSED! I'm not so pissed that my system is almost bricked, I'm pissed because Microsoft is making people pay for their mistake!

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

There's a mass of people who now have to pay $160 to Microsoft to fix a problem Microsoft CAUSED! I'm not so pissed that my system is almost bricked, I'm pissed because Microsoft is making people pay for their mistake!

I don't see how there can be any disagreement about that.

If you took your car to get your oil changed, and the mechanic slashed your tires, you would expect the mechanic to pay for it. You would not expect to pay the mechanic a few hundred bucks for new tires.

Microsoft needs to fix this.

[Dark Helmet]

Metroid for GC has a well known crash bug by the elevator. It happened to me and I would have been very happy if I could have downloaded a patch to fix it like I could on the Xbox 1.

[starman]

What is this $160 crap people are screaming about?

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by itai195 

Anyway, I don't personally mind the updates in general. But I don't think consoles are comparable to computers, they're a much simpler environment and there's no excuse for an update to ever brick a console.

Exactly! My point.

[starman]

It's an invalid point though.

Originally Posted by starman 

What is this $160 crap people are screaming about?

$139 for MS to fix the console + shipping to the repair center.

Just heard that there is Class Action lawsuit filed because of the FU bricking consoles.