[mduell]

Seems like Apple TV is more of an iTunes appliance than anything exceptionally useful. So much HD content out there is 1080, like movies and broadcast TV, so it will have to be degraded to play on the Apple TV.

Even just adding 1080p and MPEG2 support would make it a lot more attractice. CableCard or a high def DVD drive would be neat, but aren't practical at the $299 pricepoint today.

[awaspaas]

I'm not sure 1080p was practical for the $299 pricepoint, either.

[GORDYmac]

Considering that there is noting in the iTS over 720p, I guess they are covering their bases. I bought it, but I'm bummed over the lack of gigabit ethernet.

Also, if your employer has the SparkFly employee purchase program, Apple TV is only $275 via the SparkFly link.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Seems like Apple TV is more of an iTunes appliance than anything exceptionally useful. So much HD content out there is 1080, like movies and broadcast TV, so it will have to be degraded to play on the Apple TV.

Even just adding 1080p and MPEG2 support would make it a lot more attractice. CableCard or a high def DVD drive would be neat, but aren't practical at the $299 pricepoint today.

No kidding. Not only that, but the AppleTV also doesn't have gigabit ethernet, which for streaming video would be very nice. I know that N wireless can theoretically go to 600mbps, but that is probably not its sustained throughput by any means.

Not only that, but AppleTV also doesn't let you access your own movie collection. My boyfriend and I combined own several hundred DVDs. I'm not about to buy new copies of them on iTunes just so I can use a $300 minicomputer. The number one awesomness about a big widescreen television is being able to watch movies. Being limited to Disney and Paramount flicks purchased through iTunes (which, therefore, are laced with evil evil DRM "features"), is a big turn-off.

[mduell]

Any word on the "Intel Processor"? Does that mean Core Solo, or ARM plus a H.264 decoder chip?

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

I'm not sure 1080p was practical for the $299 pricepoint, either.

Supporting 1080p/MPEG2 shouldn't cost anything.

Originally Posted by GORDYmac 

Considering that there is noting in the iTS over 720p, I guess they are covering their bases. I bought it, but I'm bummed over the lack of gigabit ethernet.

Also, if your employer has the SparkFly employee purchase program, Apple TV is only $275 via the SparkFly link.

There's nothing at iTS over 480p (except trailers, which also come in 1080p), and a lot of it is upsampled 240p.
I didn't even notice the lack of GigE. Yow.
Same price ($275) for EPP cusomters; students don't get any discount.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Not only that, but AppleTV also doesn't let you access your own movie collection. My boyfriend and I combined own several hundred DVDs. I'm not about to buy new copies of them on iTunes just so I can use a $300 minicomputer. The number one awesomness about a big widescreen television is being able to watch movies. Being limited to Disney and Paramount flicks purchased through iTunes (which, therefore, are laced with evil evil DRM "features"), is a big turn-off.

I would assume (although given some of the other disappointments this may be going too far) that it will play any H.264 file from your Mac so you can just rip/encode your DVDs with Handbrake or similar.

[GORDYmac]

Before you all fall too far down the "720p sucks" rat hole, you may want to check this page out:

1080p charted: Viewing distance to screen size - Engadget HD

[mduell]

Looking at the stock graph, Wall Street had the same reaction as most of us: a big drop during the Apple TV part of the keynote and a huge rise during the iPhone part of the keynote.

Originally Posted by GORDYmac 

Before you all fall too far down the "720p sucks" rat hole, you may want to check this page out:

1080p charted: Viewing distance to screen size - Engadget HD

I've seen that chart and I don't buy it.

At distances of 20-25 feet, I can easily tell the difference between 480p and 720p source material on a 50" HDTV.

[siMac]

According to the specs page this thing can't play DivX either. I was planning to replace my aging KiSS networked DivX DVD player with one of these and was hoping it would be able to play back anything that Quicktime could, making it just a matter of codecs to be able to play my collection of DivX films and EyeTV recordings.

However it seems to be limited to playing back only Apple-approved/supplied formats and has no PVR functionality (to compensate for not working with EyeTV), so I'm gonna have to find something else.

Shame, love that interface.

[reknaw]

Think of us poor Brits. It is being charged at $400 (in US equivalent) on our soil. Why is that - does it fly club class over here?!

[Javizun]

Was planning to buy this t oconnect to my phillips ambilight 720p tv.

But i think i will look the other way and just wait for something better
the "sling catcher" is looking liek a real winner. Shame was expecting for Apple tv to
be main digital hub-but i am not down with drm itunes content.

I guess is still my sony ps3 & my tv for now.


Hey any solution for mac os x to convert avi to mp4.avc format?

[GORDYmac]

Regarding EyeTV, Elgato is okay here. While EyeTV records in MPEG2, some variants also do MPEG4. Also, with EyeTV 2, you can automatically send recordings to iTunes when scheduling--the MPEG4/H.264 is done before transferring.

I think us EyeTV users are okay.

[GORDYmac]

Regarding converting AVI to MP4, FFMPEGX and iSquint come to mind. You can do bulk conversions with iSquint, and it also automates the iTunes import.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Supporting 1080p/MPEG2 shouldn't cost anything.

What I meant was that having graphics and processing hardware to adequately display 1080p is probably not compatible with the price point. In fact, is there even ANY device at this price point that outputs 1080p (and does it well)? I can't think of any.

[Mac_X]

would someone just tell me why tv should be bought?
i mean just wirelessly send it with the "Yellow-Red-White" cables (dont knw their names), for a much lower price...... and then, you can view anything- and not be tied to the iTS.
299 seems disturbingly high. Get a mini, and use front row...

apart from the critisism, I feel like I'm not fully understanding the concept and functions of tv.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by GORDYmac 

Regarding converting AVI to MP4, FFMPEGX and iSquint come to mind. You can do bulk conversions with iSquint, and it also automates the iTunes import.

Is there a way to do it without lossy re-compression?

[Velocity211]

the only thing i'm dissapointed about is the lack of gigabit, or maybe I should go pick out the new airport base and use 802.11n?

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by Mac_X 

would someone just tell me why tv should be bought?
i mean just wirelessly send it with the "Yellow-Red-White" cables (dont knw their names), for a much lower price...... and then, you can view anything- and not be tied to the iTS.
299 seems disturbingly high. Get a mini, and use front row...

apart from the critisism, I feel like I'm not fully understanding the concept and functions of tv.

The "yellow-red-white" cables are composite video (not component) and stereo audio. They don't support high-definition.

[Naaaaak]

720p is fine for me; that's what my TV does and quite honestly I'm slightly jealous of the 1080p people so this is my chance to poke them with a stick.

I will be asking my 1080p friends questions like, "If only you had purchase a 720p TV instead of a 1080p TV you would have money leftover for an TV and iPhone" in addition to the usual "Good job futureproofing. By the time there are 1080p broadcasts we'll already have SuperHD."

I agree with earlier posters about lack of gigabit ethernet and lack of iTunes 720p content, though.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by reknaw 

Think of us poor Brits. It is being charged at $400 (in US equivalent) on our soil. Why is that - does it fly club class over here?!

You're being a bit generous with the exchange rates and forgetting VAT.
199 pounds is $386, which is only a $35 premium over $299+VAT.

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

What I meant was that having graphics and processing hardware to adequately display 1080p is probably not compatible with the price point. In fact, is there even ANY device at this price point that outputs 1080p (and does it well)? I can't think of any.

SlingBox does 1080.

[JustinHoMi]

Just to avoid confusion... Apple TV does support 1080i.

[PHoynak]

I guess this will only work with a HDTV? They list only a handful of TV's on the web site. We have an HDTV but I wanted to maybe use this on my Sony TV (32 Inch) but its not widescreen. Or will this still work?

[brokenjago]

I'm pretty sure the Apple TV has an ethernet slot. Don't know if it's gigabit, but I imagine it is:

The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)

[awaspaas]

Okay to clarify further, here's Apple's recommendations for playing 1080p QuickTime files (which would be presumably what such Apple device would play)

Dual 2.0 GHz PowerMac G5 or faster Macintosh computer; 2.0 GHz Intel Core Duo or faster

Do we see that going into a $299 box? What kind of processor is in the SlingBox?

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by PHoynak 

I guess this will only work with a HDTV? They list only a handful of TV's on the web site. We have an HDTV but I wanted to maybe use this on my Sony TV (32 Inch) but its not widescreen. Or will this still work?

The only video outputs are component and HDMI, so your TV would need one of those.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

I'm pretty sure the Apple TV has an ethernet slot. Don't know if it's gigabit, but I imagine it is:

The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)

The official specs are up, you know. http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

It only has 10/100BASE-T ethernet.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by JustinHoMi 

Just to avoid confusion... Apple TV does support 1080i.

All of them: 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz

[mduell]

Originally Posted by JustinHoMi 

Just to avoid confusion... Apple TV does support 1080i.

But you can't feed 1080 content into it. So if you have 1080 content you want to send to your TV, you have to degrade it to 720 and then interpolate it back to 1080.

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

I'm pretty sure the Apple TV has an ethernet slot. Don't know if it's gigabit, but I imagine it is:

The Unofficial Apple Weblog (TUAW)

No, 10/100 only per the Apple TV Tech Specs on Apple.com. I wonder where they even found a non-gige chipset these days

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by mduell 

SlingBox does 1080.

1080i. Show me where SlingBox does 1080p. Bit of a difference there.

[PHoynak]

My TV does have component jacks so I guess it should work. Now my question is would this work with my eMac G4 1Ghz machine. If need be I would max the ram out....just no funds now for a new Mac. I could run cat 5 cable if that would improve performance.

[brokenjago]

My TV has component, but doesn't support 480p. I wonder if it will work.

[theaidan]

So if I have a 4:3 standard CRT with component in, is there any reason this wouldn't work? I notice on the settings video on the Apple site that you can change the aspect ratio.

[JustinHoMi]

Originally Posted by mduell 

But you can't feed 1080 content into it. So if you have 1080 content you want to send to your TV, you have to degrade it to 720 and then interpolate it back to 1080.

I don't follow you. I know you can't feed 1080p to it, but I don't see any indication that you can't feed 1080i. The specs say that it will output 1080i, so I don't think you would have to do any external interpolation....

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

My TV has component, but doesn't support 480p. I wonder if it will work.

Apple TV only supports 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz, so I'm thinking no.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by theaidan 

So if I have a 4:3 standard CRT with component in, is there any reason this wouldn't work? I notice on the settings video on the Apple site that you can change the aspect ratio.

If your TV supports 480p, yes, it will work. If it only supports 480i, no, it will not work.

[brokenjago]

Lame

[GORDYmac]

Cool

[theonlyken]

Even 1080p content, encoded using H.264, only eats up 7-8Mbps, on average. 720p only needs 5-6Mbps. Even allowing for wild fluctuations, that still puts it well within the comfort zone of 100 Base-T.

So, tell me again, why does it need Gigabit?

[brokenjago]

Dunno. Why?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by JustinHoMi 

I don't follow you. I know you can't feed 1080p to it, but I don't see any indication that you can't feed 1080i. The specs say that it will output 1080i, so I don't think you would have to do any external interpolation....

You haven't read the specs page.
* Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile

[Dazed]

I was hoping to have some form of DVR. The Apple TV is cool but next to useless for me I don't have much video on my computer that i'd want on my tv and don't need music coming out of it either.

[tcugrilla]

I too was wanting DVR. And a 40gb HD? How large a file is one movie in hd?
I so love the Iphone, but this to me is lame at best. Count me incredibly disappointed.

[awaspaas]

I'm still don't think decoding and playback of 1080p QuickTime content in a $299 box is possible considering the hardware requirements. You would essentially need the core duo Mac Mini to do that, and that's several hundred dollars more. Maybe in a few years when processor prices come down... (Oh, and when there's actually some 1080p content to be had, too!)

[GORDYmac]

If it supported gigabit ethernet, file transfers, for one, would be faster. Loading up 40 gigs of data can take some time. Either way, I can't wait to play with this baby next month...or March...or April...

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by tcugrilla 

I too was wanting DVR. And a 40gb HD? How large a file is one movie in hd?
I so love the Iphone, but this to me is lame at best. Count me incredibly disappointed.

The one movie I purchased was 1.68GB, 640x266 resolution (not even 480p). They have a ways to go before we start worrying about Apple's HD movies, although it's a logical next step now.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

I'm not sure 1080p was practical for the $299 pricepoint, either.

The Xbox 360 will do 1080p streaming for $299. (Yeah, I know it's subsidized.)

[iDaver]

Gee, complaints from both sides. Some can't believe Apple TV won't do 1080p. Others can't believe it won't work with their NTSC TVs.

HDTVs are far from mainstream yet although they are selling like hotcakes. I'd wager that at least 90% of those being sold are 720 and not 1080. So, while Apple TV might not be cutting edge, it will be suitable for the vast majority of HDTVs people will be buying for the next few years.

What doesn't make sense to me is that none of the TV programs or movies Apple is selling are 720. Seems that has to change really soon, like by the time the Apple TV begins shipping.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

I'm still don't think decoding and playback of 1080p QuickTime content in a $299 box is possible considering the hardware requirements. You would essentially need the core duo Mac Mini to do that, and that's several hundred dollars more. Maybe in a few years when processor prices come down... (Oh, and when there's actually some 1080p content to be had, too!)

Don't use a general purpose chip to do a stream processing job! In 2004 H.264 decoder chips were $20 in volume. One low-end general purpose chip (like Xscale) can run the basics, then add a few dedicated chips for the rest (graphics, mpeg2/4 decoding, H.264 decoding, mp3/aac decoding, etc).

[Weezer]

I dont get this obsession with 1080p. Discovery HD theater looks rediculously sexy to me in 720p

[funkboy]

Can I purchase iTunes stuff with Apple TV from my couch?

[brokenjago]

Not that I know of.