[Sayf-Allah]

http://www.icelandreview.com/

www.icenews.is

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

http://www.icelandreview.com/

www.icenews.is

Ta.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

You mean takk?

My girl and I really enjoyed our (brief!) stay in Iceland in May, and we were planning on going back again relatively soon. (We actually looked into doing it this long weekend, but it was a little expensive!) Very sad to hear about all the trouble; it's really not getting any press at all here in Canada it seems!

[Hugi]

Ooh, nice, Greg. The third photo is taken about 500 meters from my house. :-)

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Huh, they won't load for me...looks like the "new Facebook" might have some issues with image linking?

greg

Edit: Ahh got it I think.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Hugi 

Ooh, nice, Greg. The third photo is taken about 500 meters from my house. :-)

Not too far from me as well....


Does that mean Rvk is small?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Haha, yeah it's pretty small!

We stayed just to the left/behind/beside the church there. Very convenient location, and cheap! The weather was pretty crappy while we were there, but it was fun to run around anyway.

And that whale....delicious.

greg

[Kerrigan]

I hear Iceland is experiencing the first "national bankruptcy" with foreign liabilities amounting to $100bn+ compared to a GDP of just $14bn, and that Russian oligarchs are sweeping in to essentially buy the entire nation. Yikes.

Talk about profligacy....

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

I hear Iceland is experiencing the first "national bankruptcy" with foreign liabilities amounting to $100bn+ compared to a GDP of just $14bn, and that Russian oligarchs are sweeping in to essentially buy the entire nation. Yikes.

Talk about profligacy....

I've heard this rumor that American Airlines is about to become bankrupt. Pass the word.

[Kerrigan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...701879_pf.html

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4910011.ece

[Sayf-Allah]

Now the three biggest banks on Iceland have been put under the control of the government.

We're sinking and we're sinking fast!

[hwojtek]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Damn expensive, let me tell you! Expect restaurant appies to start in the $20 range.

The electronics store on Keflavik airport has the cheapest Playstation3 I've seen in Europe (350 Euros). Or it had - 3 weeks ago.

Geysers are worth paying a visit, but beware of traffic cops (750 Euros for 120@80 km/h). AFAIK there are only 4 liquid stores in Reykjavik, so home partying gets limited a bit. The fun part is the kebab trailer just opposite SAS-Radisson hotel, you can eat 24/24 there and it's quite tasty (esp. when strolling back home from a party).

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by hwojtek

AFAIK there are only 4 liquid stores in Reykjavik, so home partying gets limited a bit.

That’s why they invented brennivín, silly.

[hwojtek]

You're talking to a person of Slavic descent. My morning tea has 37% alcohol content, so brennivín doesn't really warm me up...

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by hwojtek 

You're talking to a person of Slavic descent. My morning tea has 37% alcohol content, so brennivín doesn't really warm me up...

I was going to say that.... You're Polish (I'm guessing from your location), was here on Iceland but still only think there's 4 liquid stores here in Rvk?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by hwojtek 

You're talking to a person of Slavic descent. My morning tea has 37% alcohol content, so brennivín doesn't really warm me up...

No wonder you do 120 in an 80km/h zone.

[Sayf-Allah]

Nice use of laws.....

"Lawyers said the Treasury's unprecedented use of anti-terror powers to freeze Landsbanki's estimated £4bn UK financial assets could create knock-on problems for other institutions with which the failed lender was doing business.

The freezing order was issued under the 2001 Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act that was passed after the September 11 attacks the same year."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f86a290a-9...nclick_check=1

[Doofy]

<tin foil hat>I can't help feeling that there's something else going on behind all this bank collapse business. What with that, the worldwide smoking bans coming into play (all at the same time, basically), all the anti-terror legislation, lack of real gold (not paper gold) available... Feels like the noose is tightening.</tin foil hat>

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

I hear Iceland is experiencing the first "national bankruptcy" with foreign liabilities amounting to $100bn+ compared to a GDP of just $14bn, and that Russian oligarchs are sweeping in to essentially buy the entire nation. Yikes.

Talk about profligacy....

Oh it's bad, but Russian oligarchs? Buying the entire nation? National bankruptcy?

These are unprecedented times in Iceland, but things have not collapsed as far as you have indicated and so far no Russian oligarchs have bought anything (nor any indication that they will).

The banks are finished. All of them.

People can withdraw money, but at the moment international transactions are limited at best. For good reason.

Seriously though, I heard it on the radio (KCRW) that American Airlines was about to become bankrupt.

[hwojtek]

Originally Posted by analogika 

No wonder you do 120 in an 80km/h zone.

I don't. And I didn't in Iceland, either. I am a professional automotive writer, cannot afford being caught.

But I've been to Iceland 3 weeks ago for international press launch of VW Golf Mk VI - and there were Russians at the very same time. Now they know how to drink.
...which BTW explains the fact of myself taking the "4 stores tale" for granted and not searching very carefully

It's a beautiful place, Iceland. Too bad I had 3 foggy days straight and two hours to take any pictures at all.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Oh it's bad, but Russian oligarchs? Buying the entire nation? National bankruptcy?

These are unprecedented times in Iceland, but things have not collapsed as far as you have indicated and so far no Russian oligarchs have bought anything (nor any indication that they will).

The banks are finished. All of them.

People can withdraw money, but at the moment international transactions are limited at best. For good reason.

Seriously though, I heard it on the radio (KCRW) that American Airlines was about to become bankrupt.

OK, I'm just using the terms and facts as reported by the Washington Post and The Times (UK). The latter ran a leading article yesterday about how the central bank is in talks with Moscow and Russian billionaires living in the UK. Let's hope that is not happening.

[Kerrigan]

Oh, and condolences go out to the hospitalized president.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

OK, I'm just using the terms and facts as reported by the Washington Post and The Times (UK). The latter ran a leading article yesterday about how the central bank is in talks with Moscow and Russian billionaires living in the UK. Let's hope that is not happening.

The Icelandic government is speaking to the Russian authorities to provide a loan so we can get some liquidity into the system (and some foreign exchange).

We wouldn't have needed to deal with them if our "friends" to the West and in Europe hadn't shut the door and treated us like terrorists......

And I liked the fact that our PM reminded the press that Icelandic businesses employ about 100.000 people in the UK. Basically demanding more respect from the UK government.

[Eug]

Well, conversely, the Icelandic banks have unilaterally halted withdrawls of UK money, and have refused to say that the money in these accounts will be covered, even though they are legally obliged to do so up to a certain amount per depositor. What the UK had to do in response is guarantee these deposits themselves.

This alone could cost the British almost 5 billion pounds.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Well, conversely, the Icelandic banks have unilaterally halted withdrawls of UK money, and have refused to say that the money in these accounts will be covered, even though they are legally obliged to do so up to a certain amount per depositor. What the UK had to do in response is guarantee these deposits themselves.

This alone could cost the British almost 5 billion pounds.

The Icelandic government has always said it will honour its obligation towards the depositors. The UK government needed to shift the focus of their failures onto a foreign "enemy" so they created this extra fear.

Also, Kaupþing is in no way related to Icesave. So using the anti-terror laws against them is basically saying Icelanders are terrorists.

And rightly our government view this as a hostile act. IMO the UK shouldn't be so sure those 100.000 jobs will be available in the near future.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

The Icelandic government has always said it will honour its obligation towards the depositors. The UK government needed to shift the focus of their failures onto a foreign "enemy" so they created this extra fear.

Also, Kaupþing is in no way related to Icesave. So using the anti-terror laws against them is basically saying Icelanders are terrorists.

And rightly our government view this as a hostile act. IMO the UK shouldn't be so sure those 100.000 jobs will be available in the near future.

Incorrect. The Icelandic government has been specifically asked this question, but has refused to guarantee UK deposits. They DID guarantee Icelandic deposits, but not UK deposits.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Incorrect. The Icelandic government has been specifically asked this question, but has refused to guarantee UK deposits. They DID guarantee Icelandic deposits, but not UK deposits.

Link?

But still. Using anti-terrorist laws to freeze the assets of an unrelated bank is f*cking wrong.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Link?

It's all over the net.

But still. Using anti-terrorist laws to freeze the assets of an unrelated bank is f*cking wrong.

It is. It is also wrong to just unilaterally state that your own country's citizens' assets are OK but nobody else's matter. I don't necessarily think UK is being completely appropriate here, but you have to remember it's a direct reaction to Iceland's actions.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Eug 

It's all over the net.

Then it should be easy to provide a link.

Oh, and don't confuse "We won't guarantee all deposits" with "We won't respect our obligation to guarantee some of the deposits (up to 20k pounds/euros)."

It is. It is also wrong to just unilaterally state that your own country's citizens' assets are OK but nobody else's matter. I don't necessarily think UK is being completely appropriate here, but you have to remember it's a direct reaction to Iceland's actions.

Again, show me the quote by the Icelandic government before you start blaming Iceland in this.

[Doofy]

For every action...

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

our PM reminded the press that Icelandic businesses employ about 100.000 people in the UK. Basically demanding more respect from the UK government.

...there is an equal and opposite reaction...

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Using anti-terrorist laws to freeze the assets of an unrelated bank the organisation which owns those 100,000 jobs

Your PM (why doesn't his name end in "son"?) issued a threat. We told him to go forth and multiply. Anyone with any sense knows that this is how Brits operate.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

For every action...

...there is an equal and opposite reaction...

Your PM (why doesn't his name end in "son"?) issued a threat. We told him to go forth and multiply. Anyone with any sense knows that this is how Brits operate.

It was the other way around.

1. The UK used their anti-terrorism laws on a company unrelated to the Icesave issue.

2. Icelanders don't like being called names by their "friends" so our PM reminded the UK that there are 100k jobs in the UK that depend on the Icelandic financial system working.

Not the timeline you used.

Gordon&co are trying to shift the focus away from their own incompetence in dealing with this and find an external "threat" to get the UK public to worry about.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

It was the other way around.

Not the timeline you used.

Are we sure about that? Links please.
(Not arguing - just want to get to the bottom of it all)

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Gordon&co are trying to shift the focus away from their own incompetence in dealing with this and find an external "threat" to get the UK public to worry about.

That sounds feasible too. It's Gordon's usual MO.

Need links.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Are we sure about that? Links please.
(Not arguing - just want to get to the bottom of it all)

See my post above:

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...2/#post3738232

http://www.inthenews.co.uk/money/autocodes/countries/iceland/iceland-pm-crisis-will-be-painful-$1244179.htm

That sounds feasible too. It's Gordon's usual MO.

Need links.

Brits should be ashamed of how Gordon treats a nation that has been one of your friends for so long.

That friendship is dead in the eyes of many (if not most) Icelanders.

[Kerrigan]

You tend to lose friends and alienate people when you borrow several thousand percent of your GDP and obfuscate the conditions of repayment. Just sayin'.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

You tend to lose friends and alienate people when you borrow several thousand percent of your GDP and obfuscate the conditions of repayment. Just sayin'.

The banks were doing fine until banks all over the world stopped lending each other and started dropping like flies.

The start of the trouble here on Iceland was when Lehmann brothers went bankrupt. Glitnir (3rd biggest bank) was expecting a loan from them. From that point the dominos started to fall in Iceland. Does that mean we should blame the US?

[Sayf-Allah]

Decent article on why Iceland is in the position it is now in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7658908.stm

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

See my post above:

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lou...2/#post3738232

I can't read that FT page.

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

http://www.inthenews.co.uk/money/autocodes/countries/iceland/iceland-pm-crisis-will-be-painful-$1244179.htm

And that doesn't give any timeline.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, knowing what a plonker Gordon is.

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Brits should be ashamed of how Gordon treats a nation that has been one of your friends for so long.

For so long? We were very nearly at war 30 years ago. And then you send us Bjork - is that what kind of pain friends inflict on each other?

For the record, almost everyone in the UK hates Gordon anyway.

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

That friendship is dead in the eyes of many (if not most) Icelanders.

You essentially stole £4.5bn off us. What did you expect?

(Note: When I say "us" I'm just playing devil's advocate. I actually don't care that a bunch of idiots who couldn't be bothered to go get themselves a proper offshore account in a proper offshore jurisdiction lost their money. I don't care that the British taxpayer has to bail them out either, since I'm not one. )

[yakkiebah]

Iceland is going to be a goner.

Iceland just told 120.000 Dutch costumers to go f*ck them selves. Icesave doesn't have any money and the government from Iceland doesn't want to pay for it either, even though they're obligated, and expects the dutch taxpayer to handle this! That's downright criminal. I mean are we talking about Iceland here or Zimbabwe??

Expect our government to sue Iceland. Maybe we can have all of the fishing rights from Iceland in the Atlantic ocean? Money will have to come from somewhere...

PS. Gordon is absolutely right about this, kudos for him.

Man, and yesterday i felt sorry for the icelanders...

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I can't read that FT page.

And that doesn't give any timeline.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, knowing what a plonker Gordon is.

The timeline is basically in reading the two links. Our PM was responding to the anti-terrorism law being used against Icelandic assets in the UK.

For so long? We were very nearly at war 30 years ago. And then you send us Bjork - is that what kind of pain friends inflict on each other?

Ha! You sent us Radiohead and the Spice Girls! I think we're even.

For the record, almost everyone in the UK hates Gordon anyway.

Just saw his Sky News interview. The man's an idiot.

You essentially stole £4.5bn off us. What did you expect?

(Note: When I say "us" I'm just playing devil's advocate. I actually don't care that a bunch of idiots who couldn't be bother to go get themselves a proper offshore account in a proper offshore jurisdiction lost their money. I don't care that the British taxpayer has to bail them out either, since I'm not one. )

Never stole anything from you. We've said all the time that we'll pay what we are legally bound to pay.

People chasing higher interest rates should know that there are risks to that. It was clear before people put their money in Icesave that Iceland would be obliged to pay up to 20k. If people wanted to keep their money completely safe (like city councils) then they should have stuck their money in UK banks.

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

People chasing higher interest rates should know that there are risks to that. It was clear before people put their money in Icesave that Iceland would be obliged to pay up to 20k. If people wanted to keep their money completely safe (like city councils) then they should have stuck their money in UK banks.

Yes, and your government told our government that they will NOT pay those 20k. That's not right.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah 

Iceland is going to be a goner.

Iceland just told 120.000 Dutch costumers to go f*ck them selves. Icesave doesn't have any money and the government from Iceland doesn't want to pay for it either, even though they're obligated, and expects the dutch taxpayer to handle this! That's downright criminal. I mean are we talking about Iceland here or Zimbabwe??

Expect our government to sue Iceland. Maybe we can have all of the fishing rights from Iceland in the Atlantic ocean? Money will have to come from somewhere...

PS. Gordon is absolutely right about this, kudos for him.

Man, and yesterday i felt sorry for the icelanders...

WTF are you talking about?

I watched the press conference today and our PM said we'll pay what we are required.

Landsbankinn has (or rather had until the UK froze their assets) enough assets to pay for most of the deposits. The Icelandic state will pay the rest (up to 20k).

I guess politicians all over are trying to shift the blame.....

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah 

Yes, and your government told our government that they will NOT pay those 20k. That's not right.

Where the f*ck do you get that from?

[Kerrigan]

Those opening up Icesave accounts ought to have looked into the incredibly poor credit characteristics of Icelandic banks and the nation's ability to repay its debts before entering into agreements with them. But as with any debt, you are going to get hounded by your creditors until you pay up.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Just saw his Sky News interview. The man's an idiot.

Yep, he's a complete tool.
Just had a phone call about this and the conclusion was that it's not Gordon running the show. It's Mandy, our resident gay rottweiler - conveniently back in the government for this poostorm. Gordon ain't got the nads to do this - but Mandy thrives on it.

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

People chasing higher interest rates should know that there are risks to that. It was clear before people put their money in Icesave that Iceland would be obliged to pay up to 20k. If people wanted to keep their money completely safe (like city councils) then they should have stuck their money in UK banks.

Yep. Can't argue with that at all.

[Kerrigan]

I think Iceland is a canary in the mine for European economies, and that if other nations such as Ireland and Spain do not downshift from their reliance on foreign investment, they are going to be hit especially hard by a recession.

[Doofy]

On topic: I wonder how much of Reykjavik nonhuman's going to be able to buy next month.

[yakkiebah]

Originally Posted by Sayf-Allah 

Where the f*ck do you get that from?

ALL mayor Dutch media sources. A few links in Dutch:

Icesave: IJsland wil dat Nederlandse staat betaalt

IJsland wil dat Nederland garant staat

IJsland werkt nog niet mee met oplossing Icesave

IJsland heeft het nu even 'heel erg druk'

[Eug]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008.../savings.banks

Savers with Icesave had been expected to be able to claim back up to £50,000 of their money through a combination of the Icelandic and UK compensation schemes.

However, this morning the chancellor, Alistair Darling, said Iceland was refusing to honour its obligation to UK savers.

So far, no refutation by Icelandic authorities have been made publicly of the claims by other countries like the above. I don't see how Iceland could claim they would compensate the foreign savings anyways, because they simply don't have the money to do it.

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So far, no refutation by Icelandic authorities have been made publicly of the claims by other countries like the above. I don't see how Iceland could claim they would compensate the foreign savings anyways, because they simply don't have the money to do it.

OK, you originally said this:

The Icelandic government has been specifically asked this question, but has refused to guarantee UK deposits.

But now you simply quote that bloody liar.

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008...ual-agreement/

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008...ual-agreement/

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008...lution-sought/

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008...er-of-iceland/

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008...ed-on-iceland/

Enough for you?

[Sayf-Allah]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah 

ALL mayor Dutch media sources. A few links in Dutch:

Icesave: IJsland wil dat Nederlandse staat betaalt

IJsland wil dat Nederland garant staat

IJsland werkt nog niet mee met oplossing Icesave

IJsland heeft het nu even 'heel erg druk'

Seems the major Dutch media sources should focus on the truth instead of listening to the Dutch politicians:

from one of the links I posted:

"“But of course we will approach this in a way that claimants are not being discriminated against, regardless of their nationality, and those who are responsible for the operations of the banks now will have to sort it out,” the Prime Minister said.

Haarde assured that the Icelandic state treasury would honour all its debts."