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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > October 23, 2012 Apple event: "We've got a little more to show you."

October 23, 2012 Apple event: "We've got a little more to show you." (Page 4)
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Shaddim
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Oct 26, 2012, 05:04 PM
 
I complain about the price, say I'm not getting one... and then my wife orders two of them. "I didn't know you weren't planning on buy one." So much for my protest, eh?

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You seem to believe that a product should be priced according to what it costs to produce instead of what someone is willing to pay for it. This isn't how anything resembling a free market works.
Very true. But, I do feel it would have been in Apple's best interest to offer an 8GB model for $250 or so, and have it available on release day. While they might still sell one through education channels, that's not really the same thing.
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mduell
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Oct 27, 2012, 10:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You seem to believe that a product should be priced according to what it costs to produce instead of what someone is willing to pay for it. This isn't how anything resembling a free market works.
It should, and generally will, be priced according to both.

My favorite example is airline tickets, which cause people to lose their minds and go down irrational paths.
     
subego
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Oct 27, 2012, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You seem to believe that a product should be priced according to what it costs to produce instead of what someone is willing to pay for it. This isn't how anything resembling a free market works.
It isn't just what people will pay, it's how many people will pay.

At $299, demand increases. Even if they lost money on that (which they wouldn't), or didn't make up the loss in volume, they've still locked you into the ecosystem.


I figure you know this. I'm not trying to school you or something.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 27, 2012, 12:16 PM
 
Yeah, but if demand outstrips supply, that's not desirable, either.
     
Eug  (op)
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Oct 27, 2012, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
They do have a point that there ARE no competitors to the iPad mini.
Not really, there aren't.
That's a pretty odd statement.

* Posted from my Nexus 7.

---

BTW, I guess I won't be collecting on my $100 bet with freudling, about the release of the iPad mini before the end of 2013. Freudling, if you ever read this: If it makes it any more palatable for you, I'll forego the claim to my $100 if you make a $100 charitable donation to a worthy cause.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 27, 2012, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Yeah, but if demand outstrips supply, that's not desirable, either.
Actually it often is to an extent. If you do it on purpose you have to be careful but people tend to want things more if they can't get them. Or if their peers can't.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 27, 2012, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I do feel it would have been in Apple's best interest to offer an 8GB model for $250 or so, and have it available on release day. While they might still sell one through education channels, that's not really the same thing.
I think they just want to make sure they won't eat into iPod Touch sales too much. Maybe after christmas when supply is up to speed they'll drop the price to $300. I wouldn't count on it though.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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Oct 27, 2012, 06:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
It isn't just what people will pay, it's how many people will pay.
At $299, demand increases. Even if they lost money on that (which they wouldn't), or didn't make up the loss in volume, they've still locked you into the ecosystem.
I figure you know this. I'm not trying to school you or something.
In this case, I figure that Apple has done their research and run their numbers on maintaining demand given supply and pricing themselves high enough that they'll maintain profitability and their "high-end" status.
     
Eug  (op)
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Oct 28, 2012, 08:59 AM
 
http://www.electronista.com/articles/12/10/28/windows.tablet.market.share.drops/

Android tablets made a considerable leap in terms of market share last quarter, according to Strategy Analytics. The research firm saw the tablet sector growing compared to the same quarter last year, with Apple's iPad still in the overwhelming lead over any individual competitor. Android-based tablets, though, collectively lopped eight percentage points off of Apple's market share, taking the iPad maker from 64.5 percent of tablet shipments in the third quarter of 2011 to 56.7 percent for the same quarter 2012. Growth in Android tablets also came at the expense of Microsoft and other manufacturers, who saw their shares of shipments declining last quarter.

Overall, the tablet sector shipped 25 million units in the third quarter of 2012. That's up 43 percent from the same quarter in 2011, though analysts at Strategy Analytics expressed disappointment in the totals, attributing them in no small part to a sluggish global economy. This past quarter's growth in tablet shipments was the lowest since the "modern tablet industry" began in Q2 2012 with the introduction of the iPad.

Apple shipped 14 million iPads last quarter, while the Android segment moved 10.2 million units. While Apple's shipments were up only three million year-over-year, though, Android shipments more than doubled. That doubling brought Android's share of tablet shipments from 29.2 percent for the third quarter of 2011 to 41.3 percent for this past quarter.

The past year has seen competition in the tablet sector spiking dramatically. Beginning with the release of Amazon's Kindle Fire tablet late last year, the Android platform has continually chipped away at Apple's dominance of the sector, to the degree that some measures have Android nearing parity with Apple in terms of user base. This past summer also saw the introduction of a refreshed Kindle Fire and a new Nexus 7 tablet from Google and Asus, both of which have reportedly gone on to strong sales, even in the wake of Apple's iPad mini announcement.


---

This is why Apple released the iPad mini now. Keeps the momentum going, when iPad sales are stagnating.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Oct 28, 2012, 11:01 AM
 
I'm missing which part of 25% year-over-year sales growth you're reading as "stagnation".
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 28, 2012, 12:34 PM
 
Its not stagnation of sales, its loss of market share. Keeping market share means keeping control of the component supply prices. If they lose too much ground to Samsung then they won't be able to maintain their stranglehold over flash prices.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
ort888
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Oct 29, 2012, 06:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Yeah, this one annoys me too. You can get a Mifi for a fraction of that and with iOS 6, many many more people have now got personal hotspot on their iPhone for no extra charge. I don't know why anyone would buy the cellular iPads.
This probably isn't the best place to bring this up but...

Tethering on my iPhone 5 sucks. It's a huge pain to get anything to connect. Nothing sees the phone. It usually takes 5 minutes of turning wifi on and off, hotspot on and off, waiting, waiting, dinking around, more dinking around... it just doesn't work well. Once I do manage to see the phone as a network and connect, it works pretty well and seems to maintain the connection. This is all using wifi, not bluetooth.

Anyone else have this experience or is my situation unique? If it's not unique, I understand perfectly well why people would buy 4G iPads.

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Waragainstsleep
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Oct 29, 2012, 07:16 AM
 
I just got it enabled on my 4S and it works pretty well. Better than I thought it would.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
abbaZaba
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Oct 29, 2012, 10:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
This probably isn't the best place to bring this up but...
Tethering on my iPhone 5 sucks. It's a huge pain to get anything to connect. Nothing sees the phone. It usually takes 5 minutes of turning wifi on and off, hotspot on and off, waiting, waiting, dinking around, more dinking around... it just doesn't work well. Once I do manage to see the phone as a network and connect, it works pretty well and seems to maintain the connection. This is all using wifi, not bluetooth.
Anyone else have this experience or is my situation unique? If it's not unique, I understand perfectly well why people would buy 4G iPads.
I have it enabled on my iPhone 5 and use it frequently. Have not had a problem. LTE works great. I'm on Verizon
     
Eug  (op)
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Oct 30, 2012, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
This probably isn't the best place to bring this up but...
Tethering on my iPhone 5 sucks. It's a huge pain to get anything to connect. Nothing sees the phone. It usually takes 5 minutes of turning wifi on and off, hotspot on and off, waiting, waiting, dinking around, more dinking around... it just doesn't work well. Once I do manage to see the phone as a network and connect, it works pretty well and seems to maintain the connection. This is all using wifi, not bluetooth.
Anyone else have this experience or is my situation unique? If it's not unique, I understand perfectly well why people would buy 4G iPads.
I think this is a iOS 6 problem. I have the same problem on my iPhone 4, but it used to work somewhat better (although not perfectly) on iOS 5 on the same phone.

BTW, if the Nexus 4 supports tethering, I may just have to get it. That would mean, I, the Apple geek, would have the Nexus 4 and Nexus 7, whereas my wife, the non-geek, would have the iPhone and iPad.

The Nexus 4 is too big at 4.7" and doesn't support LTE, but at CAD$359 factory unlocked and stock Android 4.2 Jelly Bean, I can deal with that.
     
Phileas
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Nov 5, 2012, 10:30 AM
 
I don't know. LTE has made mobile browsing a non-pain-in-the-ass for the first time ever for me.

I'll be getting a Nexus 4 for testing purposes at work. I'll repost back on connection speeds.
     
ort888
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Nov 5, 2012, 10:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I think this is a iOS 6 problem. I have the same problem on my iPhone 4, but it used to work somewhat better (although not perfectly) on iOS 5 on the same phone.
It's been working a little better. I think it has problems connecting with my iPad 2 more than anything.

I've found that as long as I leave my phone on the tethering settings screen and wait about 20 seconds, I can get a connection. Once I have one, it works well. The problem is that once my iPad goes to sleep, it won't reconnect without going back to the settings screen.

It works, but it's not as simple as I would like. It's cludgy.

When we go out to my parents cabin, I have a friend that turns his android phone into a hotspot for everyone and it seems to just work like magic. Way better then what I'm experiencing with my iPhone.

**************

Also, I played around with an iPad mini today. I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. I'm not rushing out to buy one or anything, but I'm pretty sure my next iPad will be an iPad mini.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
mindwaves
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Nov 6, 2012, 03:38 AM
 
I also played around with an iPad mini today. I came back impressed with its small size and weight compared to my normal iPad 3. But the text was clearly not as good as my iPad, which is kind of a big deal for me. Kind of seemed worse than my regular iPad 1 before in fact, but maybe that was just me. Speed was a non-issue.

I did not buy as I already have an iPad 3; no use for two of them in my small "house."
     
Eug  (op)
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Nov 6, 2012, 06:43 AM
 
My wife has been eyeing my Nexus 7, because of the size and weight. If the iPad mini had a higher rez screen, I'd buy one for her, and sell our iPad 2.

However, it may end up being moot if the Nexus 7 gets multiple user profiles in Jelly Bean 4.2.
     
Shaddim
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Nov 6, 2012, 08:24 PM
 
They came in yesterday and... well, I'll let Emma tell you.


6550/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
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Eug  (op)
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Nov 7, 2012, 04:37 AM
 
Well, a friend of mine got one and he loves the thing to death.

BTW, he was also one of those Apple fanboys that originally said the 7" (to 8") size was stupid, and that Apple's choice of the 10" size was perfection. Sounds familiar...

I'm a little surprised actually at his love for the iPad mini, considering it doesn't have a Retina screen, and he already owns the iPad 3.
     
Phileas
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Nov 7, 2012, 04:59 AM
 
I saw one for the first time yesterday. Surprised by how big it is next to a Nexus 7. That screen does make a difference, but it does need the retina update. The screen on my iPad 3 is noticeably better.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 7, 2012, 05:20 AM
 
I have yet to see one in person.

I'm still skeptical, but I expect this will change at some point. I'm pretty sure I don't want smaller than my current iPad 2, though I would LOVE it to weigh half as much.

BTW, Alan Kay's remark to Steve Jobs called for 5"x8", which is 9.4", or pretty much exactly what Apple ended up releasing first.
     
Salty
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Nov 10, 2012, 08:20 PM
 
I saw one in person, it was really nice. I think I would buy one if it had a current gen processor and retina display. Since it doesn't I doubt I'll ever get one.
     
ort888
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Nov 11, 2012, 04:47 AM
 
Isn't it going to be hard for them to make this thingy have a retina display? Wouldn't the poxel density be in the 400s if they kept the same resolution but doubled it like they've always done?

And wouldn't that make it the best display on any device in the history of ever? On their small "budget" iPad? I'm not sure how that's going to work.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Eug  (op)
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Nov 11, 2012, 05:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Isn't it going to be hard for them to make this thingy have a retina display? Wouldn't the poxel density be in the 400s if they kept the same resolution but doubled it like they've always done?
And wouldn't that make it the best display on any device in the history of ever? On their small "budget" iPad? I'm not sure how that's going to work.
They could change the rez.

In fact, I think they should within a generation or two, and just deal with the necessary programming changes.

1440x1080 on the iPad mini would be great at 229 ppi. Not quite as good as the iPad 4 (264 ppi), but still decent, and way better than the current 163 ppi. It'd also make it a differentiator from the current crop of Android 1280x800 7" tablets like the Nexus 7 (216 ppi). That put the increased screen area of the 7.85" iPad mini (vs. 7" Android tablets) to good use.
     
Shaddim
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Nov 11, 2012, 07:33 AM
 
It doesn't really look that bad. It isn't like you're sitting there thinking "check out these damned pixels". Side-by-side with the new iPad it's noticeable, but otherwise it's okay. After using the wife's (she loves it) I really don't like the size. I have a big phone (GS3) and it's more handy for quick lookups, and if I want a tablet the iPad is just right. Meh, even if the Mini had a Retina display, I wouldn't use it.

As an aside, I did get to fiddle with the new Galaxy Note II, and WTF, who is it made for? NBA ballers? I have almost-abnormally long fingers, and even I had trouble using it.
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Eug  (op)
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Nov 11, 2012, 07:54 AM
 
The iPad mini's pixel density is not bad, but it's worse than the competition, yet costs more. Yeah, I run a 132 ppi iPad 2 and tolerate it, but the screen's pixel density is definitely showing its age.

There isn't really a good technical reason not to have a higher rez in the iPad mini, besides cost of implementation (which is a damn good reason I admit). iOS doesn't have the same resolution dependence issues that Mac OS X does, so there is more leeway to play with resolutions.

The Galaxy Note line is stupid IMO. Err... I mean it's a niche product. The Samsung Galaxy S III (and Nexus 4) are already huge. I'll probably get the Nexus 4, warts and all, but I'd prefer if it was say 4.3".
     
ort888
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Nov 12, 2012, 10:38 AM
 
I don't know where else to put this, but my father just sent me an email letting me know that Apple is going to be putting out a new iPhone next fall.

Just a heads up you guys.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
mattyb
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Nov 12, 2012, 01:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I don't know where else to put this, but my father just sent me an email letting me know that Apple is going to be putting out a new iPhone next fall.
Just a heads up you guys.
Says thanks to your Dad for us. And if he could let us know where he got the info ....
     
ort888
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Nov 12, 2012, 02:08 PM
 
He heard it on CNBC.

My dad is funny. He just retired and I just set him up with his own computer and his own smartphone.

We always had computers in my house, but he never really used them. He always had a computer at work, and he knew how to use it to do most important things, but he was never one for frivolous emails.

That's all changed in the last month. Like I said, he's retired. I helped him get set-up on a MacBook, I set him up on my old iPhone (he always had a blackberry from his work).

Now all he does is surf the internet and watch TV all day and he sends me any sort of Apple news he finds.

I'm trying to find a polite way to let him know that he's not sending me useful information, but eh, it's pretty funny either way.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
mduell
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Nov 14, 2012, 02:10 PM
 
The screen looks like shit. It's a flashback to the 2007 iPhone.

Android is up to 440dpi on a 5" screen for the latest Droids. C'mon Apple, get your tweener up to par.
     
Eug  (op)
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Nov 14, 2012, 04:22 PM
 
440 PPI on a tablet is way overkill. However, half that would be OK. Like I said before, 1440x1080 would be a good resolution for the iPad mini.
     
mduell
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Nov 15, 2012, 03:28 PM
 
1440x1080 would be about 230dpi... better, but a sham to call it Retina on a display that small.
     
Eug  (op)
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Nov 15, 2012, 07:32 PM
 
The 216 ppi on the Nexus 7 isn't retina, but it's pretty good IMO.
The 264 ppi on the iPad 4 is called retina.
The 229 ppi for a 1440x1080 iPad mini would be very decent.

Actually, I'd consider 1440x1080 on a 7" tablet basically retina at 257 ppi. I don't think there'd be a lot of complaints about the 7.85" iPad mini screen at that resolution, esp. if the price wasn't too high, although if they wanted to really knock it out of the park, they'd make it 1600x1200, for 255 ppi.
     
mattyb
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Nov 16, 2012, 09:30 AM
 
Damn, missed the postie. Hopefully getting hold of my Nexus 7 tomorrow.
     
Eug  (op)
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Nov 16, 2012, 10:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Damn, missed the postie. Hopefully getting hold of my Nexus 7 tomorrow.
They deliver on Sat. in France?
     
Phileas
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Nov 16, 2012, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
They deliver on Sat. in France?
They used to in the UK. Twice a day Mon - Fri, once on Saturday. Not sure if that's still the case.
     
mattyb
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Nov 17, 2012, 01:04 AM
 
Yes, but since its a package I had to got the Post Office.

I have it in front of me. Asus forgot to make a longer cable for the charger, haven't they learned yet?

Will report back when playtime is over.
     
 
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