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Meadowfield · Feb 16, 2005, 08:32 PM

After adding a Crucial RAM module to my PowerMac this afternoon I thought it prudent to run the Hardware Test Disk, and low and behold I failed.

The disk requires you to boot from it and after a few moments you see the usual OS 9 looking memory module icon before the screen jumped into whatchamacallit (I can't believe the spellcheck let that one slide) mode citing a memory exception error. I had to type re-start/return to get out of it.

Now the profiler recognizes it ok and everything else seems fine, but I suspect I haven't seen the wrath quite yet.

Crucial suspected a bad module and will send me another one, but they really just took my word for it and didn't diagnose it at all. And, frankly, I'm a little surprised they charged me for it with the promise they would credit my account upon return of this module. Come to think of it, I'm a little pissed I even had to press for a prepaid return sticker

Any thoughts or similar experiences would be appreciated.

Big Mac · Feb 16, 2005, 11:35 PM

Ouch, that's terrifically crappy - I can empathize with your situation. The Hardware Test CD could have failed to boot for some other reason, however. If you have removed the module, did you try running the test CD again? If there is not an issue with the Test CD at that point, then at least you can be more certain that it was the new RAM.

Eriamjh · Feb 17, 2005, 08:07 AM

You should have studied harder.

buffalolee · Feb 17, 2005, 11:02 AM

The return practice is not unusual.

You had two options...
1. Pre-pay for new RAM, install, return old RAM, and refund
2. Return RAM, wait, wait, wait, wait, get new RAM

Crucial is just preventing theft so this is not unusual.

Meadowfield · Feb 18, 2005, 04:56 PM

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm not as concerned about Crucial's return policies as much as the test results. In fact, they sent a replacement within only two days.

I was a little disappointed, however, when the second one failed as well. They graciously offered to take them both back, but I requested that I speak with a higher level tech to see if he had heard of this issue before.

According to his stats they've only had a 3% return rate for this PM model and added that as long as the system didn't have any kernel's I should be fine, but he understood the resale value angle also and offered to take them back too. Pretty good service, I'd say, and both times the phone waits were only seconds in duration.

So here I am, do I return them or not? As I contemplated that question I decided to print off and read the notes included on the hardware test disc. I found the following interesting excerpt:

Known issues:

Your Power Mac G4 is capable of using memory modules (DIMMs) even when part of a module is detected as being bad by the Power On Self-Test, which is run when you turn the machine on. Apple Hardware Test will report such failed memory modules upon startup, in the Hardware Tests panel.

My question is then, are there any manufacturers selling ram which will pass this test, and if not - what the hell?!

ps: good one, Eriamjh

Big Mac · Feb 19, 2005, 06:05 AM

Sorry you're still having issues, but of course there are modules that pass the Hardware Test. Unfortunately, if two modules have failed the same way (in the same slot I assume), I would have to turn my suspicion to the slot instead of the modules.

Meadowfield · Feb 19, 2005, 12:38 PM

Oh yeah, I've swapped them around in all different combo's and inevitably any crucial participation fails - or at least does not get past the "Power On Self-Test."

Big Mac · Feb 19, 2005, 02:01 PM

Ok. It's great that you know it is not your board then. If you were to take a look at my response to people's questions on where to get RAM, you would see that I don't rate Crucial too highly. Their site leaves a good amount to be desired (although they do support the Mac, which is a plus) and I think their prices are inflated. You can get name brand RAM for less. I must admit, though, that it is not often that you read about problems with Crucial; you must have bad luck to get too defective modules in a row.

Cadaver · Feb 19, 2005, 04:32 PM

Although I personally have had very good luck with Crucial, my suggestion for an alternate vendor would be OWC (http://eshop.macsales.com/). I've bought many things from them in the past (including the X800 XT that arrived last week), and they have a very good reputation. And, best of all, they are a Mac-only company.

Big Mac · Feb 19, 2005, 07:55 PM

I am glad you have had good experiences with them, but OWC has a horrible reputation.

Cadaver · Feb 20, 2005, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I am glad you have had good experiences with them, but OWC has a horrible reputation.

Bad rep with whom? I've never heard anything but good experiences with them.

And almost everyone on xlr8yourmac.com, those of us fortunate enough to have a registration (before they were closed), have used OWC without any issues.

In the past, I've purchased from them: RAM, one of their house-brand Mercury 1.4GHz G4 processor cards for my GigE G4, a Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition, a Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition, two different hard drives, an Acard ATA/133 controller, umm... I know I must be leaving something out.

Anyway. Just defending a good company.

Meadowfield · Feb 20, 2005, 10:48 AM

Big Mac - from whom do you suggest I try to buy my memory? I'm willing to try another manufacturer and se if they pass the test before I return the Crucial sticks...

Big Mac · Feb 21, 2005, 10:47 AM

Just do a search here and you will find some particularly horrific experiences with OWC and their business practices. I have seen enough to be able to confidently recommend against the company. Just my opinion.

Meadowfled, here's my advice: Don't buy the cheapest (i.e. Coast-to-Coast/1800-4-MEMORY), and don't buy the more expensive (i.e. Crucial). When you buy from cheaper companies, you don't get name brand RAM. Most all RAM is produced by a small number of oversees vendors, but I have been told that the generic resellers use chips that failed the rigorous testing the name brand companies perform. Here's a secret, though: Crucial is not the only name brand memory seller. You can usually get away with buying generic RAM, but after one module failed on me I decided higher quality memory was worth the slight price difference. (One really confusing, rare occurrence is when a name brand vendor sells modules that are labeled as generic. The Mushkin RAM I got but have yet to install in my G5 was labeled as generic by dealram, but I decided to buy based on the name and great price from newegg.com.)

There are at least five name brand manufacturers/resellers: Crucial, Kingston, Mushkin, Viking, PNY and Corsair and Samsung. Crucial is too expensive, IMO, and their site, while pretty, is unhelpful because their memory selector presents too many module variations.

Kingston is more reasonably priced than Viking; both provide lifetime warranties. OTOH, PNY, the cheapest of the name brand RAM, only provides a 10 year warranty. Finally, I've written off Corsair entirely, since that company seems to cater exclusively to PC "enthusiasts," and a search for Apple yielded 0 results.

To start, go over to dealmac.com and take a look at the sales they have listed for your particular iMac. If you happen to have a specific brand of RAM in mind, do some price comparison shopping with Froogle. Try search terms that reference the brand and part number or desired size module you're looking for. You'll find a lot of smaller tech companies through Froogle; I bet most are reputable. The really difficult part is determining which companies have which parts in stock and then figuring out which is the cheapest after taxes and shipping. Hope things work out; third time's the charm, right?

cjanda · Mar 24, 2005, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by Big Mac:
I am glad you have had good experiences with them, but OWC has a horrible reputation.

Well.. I just got 2 "matched" 512 MB sticks from OWC for my iMac G5 -- and the Mac won't boot with them at all.

I get the white screen and then some horizontal red and blue lines across the middle of the screen, and then after about 30 sec, all the fans sound like the go into turbo jet mode.

I tried to boot from the OS X CD, but that fails with an "invalid memory" error.

So.. my first experience with OWC isn't good at all... esp. since they are supposed "know Macs".

:-(

Meadowfield · Mar 25, 2005, 08:27 AM

Well, that's not good, but I should chime in with my conclusion here. The Crucial memory was returned - both for full credit - and I bought OWC sticks instead. They passed the hardware test with flying colors and I've been happily computing ever since.

As I recall the prices were similar. If Apple just got closer to market prices they'd sell a lot more on the front end.

Paul

cjanda · Mar 25, 2005, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Meadowfield:
Well, that's not good, but I should chime in with my conclusion here. The Crucial memory was returned - both for full credit - and I bought OWC sticks instead. They passed the hardware test with flying colors and I've been happily computing ever since.

As I recall the prices were similar. If Apple just got closer to market prices they'd sell a lot more on the front end.

Paul

I just got off the phone with a tech from OWC. They are sending out a replacement pair of sticks today.

He asked if I had tried "flashing the PRAM" ?? I have no idea what that is.

Luca Rescigno · Mar 25, 2005, 12:51 PM

You hold down command-option-P-R at startup, and it will force the system to automatically reboot as long as you hold it. While it's doing this, it clears out the PRAM (parameter RAM), which stores temporary settings when the computer is off. I don't know exactly why, but it seems to help sometimes.

bighead · Mar 25, 2005, 02:18 PM

For older Macs, I used to buy OWC RAM all the time. Back when I was using EDO DIMMs and non-DDR RAM, I bought from OWC a lot. Never had a single issue in the 20 or so sticks I got from them. I bought a 512 MB SODIMM for my PowerBook last spring, and it froze after 15 minutes or so, but passed Hardware Test. Pulled the RAM, no freeze. OWC charged me for the new stick, I sent the old one back, and I got a refund. Great service from them!

I have three Crucial sticks (1x512, 2x256) in my MDD G4 and all three of them have been working like champs since last June when I got the machine. I've never had a Crucial stick fail on me, though I have seen customers with failed Crucial RAM. Overall, I think that Crucial quality is pretty darn good even though some of the sticks they've sent out are non-Micron chips now.

I've not had any experience with OCZ. I've seen a lot of Corsair, Kingston, and Viking RAM fail in newer machines. I won't touch SimpleTech or Edge RAM with a 10 foot pole. Just my experiences.

Kristoff · Mar 25, 2005, 05:34 PM

MY .02 cents.

I've ordered from crucial for a long, long time.

I have crucial ram in a 5 year old Pismo, Cube, QS DP 800, iMac g4, and just put 4x512 in my G5 DP 1.8. All work great. Sorry some have had problems, but as a rule, they are high quality pieces.

italiano · Mar 25, 2005, 06:58 PM

I've bought literally THOUSANDS of dollars of stuff from OWC - I rate them A+... that's my opinion - I have always been treated great by them and their tech support was A+ too - I'm using their 1.2 GHZ. chip in my G4 and it's work flawless from day 1.

cjanda · Apr 5, 2005, 08:47 PM

Just got 2 replacement 512 MB sticks from OWC.

I popped them in my iMac G5 and it booted right up this time.

So -- the first ones they shipped must have been bad or incompatible. These seem to run just fine.

They report in system profiler as: PC3200U-30330

I know those last 5 digits are supposed to mean something, but I forgot what.

cjanda · Apr 6, 2005, 07:50 PM

Well .. I spoke too soon

The machine ran fine for about 15 min, then I stepped away for a while and when I came back, the dock was gone and the machine was froze.

It would not boot up again after that.

I put the original 256 MB back in and then spent 2 hrs on the chat with Apple tech support only to have to do the "archive and install" to get the dock back again.

I talked to OWC tonight and the tech there said that the modules they have been shipping are in fact NOT compatible with the iMac G5 spec !! They run fine in a Power Mac G5 but NOT in the iMac G5.

So.. I'm waiting now for RMA #2 (my 3rd pair of modules) ...

Very frustating !