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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > The official WWDC oohs and ahhs thread (general discussion)

The official WWDC oohs and ahhs thread (general discussion)
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Scotttheking
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:14 AM
 
This is for general discussion of WWDC
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The Ancient One
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:28 PM
 
OOOOOOOOOH! AHHHHHHHH!
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CobraMantis
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:31 PM
 
Twice as quiet as G4....OOOOHHHHHHH.
     
flibble
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:31 PM
 
Yes!!! Yes!! Yes!!!!!!!

http://arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/3q02/wwdc-622.html

[14:12] <iPalindrome> ONE MORE THING
[14:12] <iPalindrome> Shows the screenshot of the leak on the Apple web site
[14:12] <iPalindrome> Reaction to specs were
[14:12] <iPalindrome> 1. too good to be true
[14:12] <iPalindrome> 2. it's true
[14:12] <iPalindrome> 3. it's brilliant marketing on apple's part
[14:13] <iPalindrome> delivering today the world's fastest PC
[14:13] <iPalindrome> Chip
[14:13] <iPalindrome> System
[14:13] <iPalindrome> roduct
[14:14] <iPalindrome> O
[14:14] <iPalindrome> M
[14:14] <iPalindrome> F
[14:14] <iPalindrome> G
[14:14] <iPalindrome> NEW TOWARS!!!!1
[14:14] <iPalindrome> Partnership with IBM
[14:14] <iPalindrome> G5 is the name
[14:14] <iPalindrome> == Eat it motorola!
[14:14] <iPalindrome> It is a 64-bit processor
[14:14] <iPalindrome> World's 1st 64-bit desktop processor
[14:14] <iPalindrome> Runs 32-bit apps natively with no problem
[14:14] <iPalindrome> Runs at up to 2 GHz
[14:14] <iPalindrome> Fastest 64-bit processor ever
[14:15] <iPalindrome> 1 GHz front side bus
[14:15] <iPalindrome> Fastest fgront-side bus ever
[14:15] <iPalindrome> Built for full symmetric processing

[14:15] <iPalindrome> Designed for dual processors
[14:15] <iPalindrome> Entirely new architecture with industries highest bandwidth
[14:15] <iPalindrome> Massively parallel
[14:15] <iPalindrome> 12-unit core
[14:15] <iPalindrome> 215 in-flight instructions where the G4 is capable of 16
[14:16] <iPalindrome> optimized altivec with precision design
[14:16] <iPalindrome> 2 double prcision FUP
[14:16] <iPalindrome> 2 fully symmetric integer units
[14:16] <iPalindrome> 2 load-store units
[14:16] <iPalindrome> Massive branch-prediction logic
[14:16] <iPalindrome> I don't know what it does -- predicts branches
[14:16] <iPalindrome> It's a good thing

[14:16] <iPalindrome> New generation architecture
[14:16] <iPalindrome> IBM has done a phenomenal job
[14:16] <iPalindrome> WOrld's most advanced chip fabrication
[14:17] <iPalindrome> 130 nm process
[14:17] <iPalindrome> silicon on insulator
[14:17] <iPalindrome> 8 layer copper interconnects
[14:17] <iPalindrome> 38 million transistors
[14:17] <iPalindrome> 58 million that is
[14:17] <iPalindrome> 300 mm 12-inch wafers
[14:17] <iPalindrome> 130 nanometer that is
[14:17] <iPalindrome> Build it in a 3 billion state-of-the-art facility in Fishkill, NYH
[14:17] <iPalindrome> Built in the USA
[14:17] <iPalindrome> Close-up shots of the PPC 970 including pics from the thread in MAC
[14:18] <iPalindrome> Mac Ach that is
[14:18] <iPalindrome> All robots building them

[14:18] <iPalindrome> John Kelly III SVP of Technology Groups at IBM is onstage
[14:18] <iPalindrome> Dr. John E. Kelly, III:
[14:18] <iPalindrome> Great day for apple, developers and customers
[14:19] <iPalindrome> How did we catch up and pass the competition in one giant step?
[14:19] <iPalindrome> Went to IBM and took the core out of the Power4 and brought it down into the 64-bit desktop processor
[14:19] <iPalindrome> 2 GHz, 1 Ghz bus
[14:19] <iPalindrome> most advanced 130 nanometer tech
[14:19] <iPalindrome> gate length of under 50 nanometers
[14:19] <iPalindrome> 13 angstroms in the gate
[14:19] <iPalindrome> *Applause*
[14:19] <iPalindrome> == my hands hurt
[14:20] <iPalindrome> Only IBM in partnership with Apple can produce this kind of technology
[14:20] <iPalindrome> This is only the beginning
[14:20] <iPalindrome> IBM spends $5 billion annualy on R&D
[14:20] <iPalindrome> There are hundreds of IBM scientists working on the next generation of processors

[14:20] <iPalindrome> == IBM may be publishing a road map
[14:20] <iPalindrome> SJ:
[14:21] <iPalindrome> We've been wating a long time for this
[14:21] <iPalindrome> Been working with IBM for a couple of years on it
[14:21] <iPalindrome> SYSTEM:
[14:21] <iPalindrome> G5 system Controller
[14:21] <iPalindrome> WOrld's fastest ASIC
[14:21] <iPalindrome> ponit to point architecdture
[14:21] <iPalindrome> dedicated bahdnwidth to main memory for each subsyswtem
[14:21] <iPalindrome> Apple designed
[14:21] <iPalindrome> State of the art IBM fabrication
[14:21] <iPalindrome> == sj islayin out the system architecture on the screen
[14:22] <iPalindrome> 8 GBPS OF BANDWIDTH
[14:22] <iPalindrome> When you add to processes
[14:22] <iPalindrome> Indepdendent busses
[14:22] <iPalindrome> 16 gbps of bandwidth
[14:22] <iPalindrome> p2p interfaces
[14:22] <iPalindrome> No slowdown from 2nd processor
[14:22] <iPalindrome> 400 MHz 128-bit DDR Memory
[14:22] <iPalindrome> 6.4 Gbps of bandwidth
[14:22] <iPalindrome> == slowdown is now the RAm
[14:22] <iPalindrome> AGP 8x pro grpahics
[14:22] <iPalindrome> 2 GBps of bandwidth
[14:22] <iPalindrome> Latest chips from NVIDIA and ATI
[14:23] <iPalindrome> Power for PRO cards
[14:23] <iPalindrome> I/O:
[14:23] <iPalindrome> 133 MHz PCI-X
[14:23] <iPalindrome> 2 GB ps of bandwidth
[14:23] <iPalindrome> HyperTransport interconnect
[14:23] <iPalindrome> 1 133 MHz 64-bit slot
[14:23] <iPalindrome> 2 100 MHz 64-bit slots
[14:23] <iPalindrome> Storage:

[14:23] <iPalindrome> Latest tech standards
[14:23] <iPalindrome> Serial ATA
[14:23] <iPalindrome> 1.5 Gbps of bandwidth
[14:23] <iPalindrome> Independent interface to each drive
[14:23] <iPalindrome> Apple designed i9/o chip
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Hypertransport interconnect
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Rest of the I/O
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Firewire 400 and 800
[14:24] <iPalindrome> USB 2.0
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Gigabit Ehternet
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Airport Expreme
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Blue tooth
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Optical digital audio
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Beginning of a whole new generation of architecture?
[14:24] <iPalindrome> !
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Single or dual processors available
[14:24] <iPalindrome> Upto 8 GB of RAM
[14:24] <iPalindrome> What so much RAM?
[14:25] <iPalindrome> G5 is a monster in terms of bandwidth
     
pliny
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:33 PM
 
9 fans.
i look in your general direction
     
acadian
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:44 PM
 
ooooooooohhhhhhh......
     
acadian
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:45 PM
 
aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh......
     
CobraMantis
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:47 PM
 
It's spanking teh Xeon!!11!! OHHHHH
     
I'mDaMac
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:48 PM
 
Its ugly!
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acadian
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:50 PM
 
obs then touted the G5 Power Mac's performance against Dell. The dual 3.0GHz Xeon (533MHz Bus, 512MB RAM) from Dell costs $4000 and isn't as fast. It has the same stuff but slower. All three Power Mac G5 machines are due in August. SPEC int test show that 2GHz G5, the 3GHz P4 (fastest available), and 3.0Ghz Xeon. Using the GCC 3.3 compiler, VeriTest independent test lab showed that the G5 is 10$ slower on integer, but 21% faster on FPU. The dual G5 smoked the P4 and dual Xeon. It is 41% faster on FPU than the dual-Xeon and 3% faster on integer (via SPEC tests). Both single and dual processor tests were shown. Adobe said that Photoshop will be updated when these machines are released.
Holy F#$%@&! S%#$......
     
The Ancient One
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:52 PM
 
Originally posted by I'mDaMac:
Its ugly!
Not with those specs it isn't!
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clarkgoble
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:52 PM
 
Coolest benchmark isn't the Spec but the Mathematica bakeoff.

[14:46] <iPalindrome> G5 is going about 2.5 x faster than the Xeon
[14:46] <iPalindrome> G5 is at 40 steps completed, Xeon at 15 steps
[14:47] <iPalindrome> Competition for G5 on Mathematica is now high-end UNIX workstations, not PC
[14:47] <iPalindrome> And Mathematica on the G5 is faster than high-end UNIX stations
[14:47] <iPalindrome> 195.366,625 digits per second vs. about 80,000,000 per second on the Xeon
     
SciFrog
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:54 PM
 
August damn it...
     
acadian
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Jun 23, 2003, 02:54 PM
 
Its ugly!
Who cares!!!!

970=G5
980=G6

Sure glad IBM's on our side....
     
kupan787
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:00 PM
 
Apple says 3GHz models will be available in 12 months!!

Yea, no stuck at 500 MHz crap. Later MOT!
     
rustyclockwork
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:16 PM
 
THE G5

THE UGLIEST THING THEY EVER DESIGNED

I'll get this fast mofo... but my quicksilver will be the one displayed on the desk... I'll hide the secret ugly weapon.

Jobs did it soooo right with the price, bravo on the tech specs...

the future is now,

J
     
rustyclockwork
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:25 PM
 
hmmmm... maybe not so ugly, I really like the clutter-less insides

J
     
austeros
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:29 PM
 
alright, who kidnapped irve? surely he cant be behind this...

but, then again finally its whats inside that counts... easily makes up for that horrible exterior.

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Scotttheking  (op)
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:32 PM
 
The machine has no expansion!
1 optical drive, 2 HD bays. 3 PCI.
What are they thinking? "Here's your new fast machine, but you can't add drives"

Dingbats.
The tech specs are great, but the case design is horrendous.
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NYCFarmboy
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:33 PM
 
its not ugly.. just very plain/simple..nothing I'd want in my living room though... would be ok if I had a place to put it out of sight.



But I prefer the G4 case...

I'll wait on a dual 4.0 GHZ g5 and a better case design.
( Last edited by NYCFarmboy; Jun 23, 2003 at 03:55 PM. )
     
Simon
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:33 PM
 
Originally posted by Scotttheking:
The machine has no expansion!
1 optical drive, 2 HD bays. 3 PCI.
What are they thinking?
They were thinking that this is a normal computer. The Xstation will follow.
     
Scotttheking  (op)
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:36 PM
 
Originally posted by Simon:
They were thinking that this is a normal computer. The Xstation will follow.
My "normal" desktop has 3 drives in it. I have no need for anything higher end, but damnit, I need the expansion. With the size of that case they should be able to get 4+ HDs, and 2 optical drives.
It's just nuts.
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mike one
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:46 PM
 
one optical drive!!?!?!?!
absolute friggin' criminal......
say hello to external peripheral circus part 2


i never understand this, even since my first blue&white. insanity.

just got a beige g3, that thing has 4 5.25 bays, this has one. how is this possible....
     
palmberg
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:47 PM
 
Originally posted by Scotttheking:
With the size of that case they should be able to get 4+ HDs, and 2 optical drives.
It's just nuts.
Size matters not. They probably couldn't afford to clutter up the airflow inside the case.
     
clarkgoble
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:49 PM
 
The photo above doesn't do it justice because of blurring. The photos on Apple's site look much better. (Although still no work of art)
     
palmberg
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:49 PM
 
Originally posted by mike one:
just got a beige g3, that thing has 4 5.25 bays, this has one. how is this possible....
Does your beige G3 have FireWire? I have an external FW hard drive and an external FW CDRW hooked up to my iBook at home.
     
Scotttheking  (op)
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:50 PM
 
Originally posted by palmberg:
Size matters not. They probably couldn't afford to clutter up the airflow inside the case.
Well there are some nice hidden costs now.
You have to buy an external firewire drive bay or tower.
It's just stupid.
They could design a better case and still have it quiet.
Part of the reason they did it they way they did is serial ATA is one drive per bus, so they'd have to add more busses, instead of dual/slave on PATA. Oh well. Stupid apple.
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:51 PM
 


I LOVE IT!
     
n_lim
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:51 PM
 
Maybe I am in the minority, but I think the new G5 is beautiful! Didn't look good in the grainys, but the press pic on the apple site look terrific. The new look is inline with the Al powerbooks and just reek of expensive power. But I don't know what they are doing with the single drive bay, wasn't that a major complaint with the old cases?
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HvyMtlMdns
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:57 PM
 
Originally posted by Scotttheking:
My "normal" desktop has 3 drives in it. I have no need for anything higher end, but damnit, I need the expansion. With the size of that case they should be able to get 4+ HDs, and 2 optical drives.
It's just nuts.
I know what you mean. I've got four full size drives in my QuickSilver (500GB) plus one on a PC card. Expansion may have fallen victim to cooling issues. It looks like the design was optimized to get air in and out as fast as possible. I was joking with a colleague before I saw the design saying it might look like a '68 Camaro with a blower. I wasn't too far off.
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Jun 23, 2003, 03:59 PM
 
I'm buying one even though it looks crap. Substance over style this time around I think. Form what I can see too, access to the mainboard is just liek a PC, it doesn't fold out like the other Macs of before, wonder if it'll be a cse of fiddly hands-in the box to install things.
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icruise
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:03 PM
 
It looks pretty good from the side, but the front! Ack! It looks like the front should be the back or something. Not that impressive. Although I must admit that the pictures on Apple's site almost never do justice to their hardware, so it may look great in person.
     
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:12 PM
 
I wish the outside looked as nice as the inside. The specs are incredible but I'll be keeping my Dual gig until they redesign this baby. It would be damn cool though to go next to my Cube just for collection purposes...

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Jun 23, 2003, 04:13 PM
 
These new machines look cool. I like the all metal/aluminum case, and the insides look beautiful, nice & organized. I'm also sure they look a hell of a lot cooler in person.

These machines are not 2 times quieter than the previous g4s, theyre 3 times quieter !

And these machines have spdif in/out !

For a guy like me who does audio, the G5s look mighty tempting.

3 times quieter ! spdif in/out ! analog in/out ! G5, fastest personal pc processor on the planet !

From an audio point of view, these machines get a thumbs up from me.

I could just envision running an insane amount of plugins on these things. I can't wait to get one.

     
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:13 PM
 
Is the top that same mesh/grid thats on the front?


If so, am I the only one worrying about it collecting dust...not mention the disaster a couple drops of water could cause!

I hope there's some level of protection against that...

However, i can't freakin wait to get one (2nd generation though...I'll let eveyone else be the guinea pigs!)
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:13 PM
 
Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
its not ugly.. just very plain/simple..nothing I'd want in my living room though... would be ok if I had a place to put it out of sight.


Its the Volvo case design . Good specs though.... but I will wait to see what problems the first Rev has before I buy. Also has anyone found a complete pic of the back of the computer? Otherwise I have to wait til Friday to see it in person.

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The Mick
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:14 PM
 
I think the case looks good overall. It's a bit odd with the perforated front, but I love how simple and organized the ports are on the outside and the internal design is so clean. Remember, it's an all-aluminum case, so I think it will look really sharp in person. Besides, with all that power do you really care that much how it looks? As far as expasion goes, I think Apple must have thought that since hard drives continue to grow in size at a rapid rate, most people will not need more than two 3.5" fixed bays. And with a Superdrive, what more do you need? It's an awesome machine at a reasonable price.

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Jun 23, 2003, 04:14 PM
 
http://a736.g.akamai.net/7/736/51/fc...ro06232003.jpg

I like it.

EDIT: That pic was freakin huge. Changed it to a link.
     
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:18 PM
 
i like the new design and the specs...but since i am poor i am looking forward to panther more...expose looks really cool.

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PookJP
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:20 PM
 
I think the design is reserved, well balanced, attractive, and overall a success. While it lacks the visual impact of the B&W G3 or the Cube, this does not make it ugly. You should not confuse the "wow" factor with the overall quality of the design.

I think it sports a modern, industrial look that is befitting for a machine that packs such a tremendously powerful punch. It doesn't look like a toy, rather a well designed tool. Clearly it is designed in the vein of the Powerbook G4, with minimal curves, attractive metals, and a sense that it was designed with simplicity in mind.

One hallmark of good design is something that eschews gimmics. This design functions well without any silly additions, like weird LEDs, unnecessary lines, or anything else that would fall under the category of "racing stripes."

Thumbs up to Ives and Apple both for creating a new look, and for avoiding the expected direction based on past products.
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:21 PM
 
I think the new case rocks. The iso-air chamber thing is totally innovative. With the low db level and optical audio in/out, it's easy to see why an audio pro (I am one) would be psyched about this. I think the optical in/out is a harbringer for more integration with audio devices that work with Logic. Should be an interesting year to come.

I'm getting one! Can't believe how great this is!
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exsilio
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:22 PM
 
BAH!

I knew I had seen that G5 design somewhere before.



Seperated at birth almost...and this one will only set you back 99 cents!

     
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:24 PM
 
Coupla random thoughts:

Played with custom configuring one at online apple store. Superdrive in lowend can be bumped down to combo drive for -200 dollars. So, the "real" base price appears to be $1799. Not so bad

Case looks wierd .. but we'll all be used to it in a few weeks. The FP iMac looked very weird at first (to me) but now looks quite "normal"

Last random thought. Holy SHITE .... its finally happened. The chip ... but system bus ... memory bandwidth ... everything, really. I'm sure there will be many arguments about how this machine isn't as fast as Apple is implying in this or that benchmark or real world test ... but, geez ... we're finally back in the running, ya'll. It'll be a switch having to defend this machines looks more than its performance
( Last edited by Krusty; Jun 23, 2003 at 04:33 PM. )
     
rhogue islander
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:39 PM
 
Here's a little G5 montage I did in Photoshop:

     
bamburg dunes
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:40 PM
 
Originally posted by cacarr1:
Is the top that same mesh/grid thats on the front?


If so, am I the only one worrying about it collecting dust...not mention the disaster a couple drops of water could cause!

I hope there's some level of protection against that...

However, i can't freakin wait to get one (2nd generation though...I'll let eveyone else be the guinea pigs!)
I think it might be meshed over the top, but that might be necessary though for cooling reasons. My SGI Octane has 2 grills on the top at both sides of the case, suck in air and spread it around the mainboard module and the XIO slot modules. It also has a grill at the front for similar reasons. One of the problems with this sytem is the collection of dust and a known issue with the Octanes over time. Although, one good point with the Octane is that the grills are slightly covered by the plastic case and is built for airflow.
PIXAR Animation Studios
     
Timo
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:42 PM
 
The video is worth a look (56K beware):
http://www.apple.com/powermac/video/
     
silverlode
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:43 PM
 
Based on the air flow diagrams I'd say there aren't any hole on the top.
calibrated in-phase cylindrical chamber technician
     
hudson1
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:46 PM
 
Originally posted by Krusty:
It'll be a switch having to defend this machines looks more than its performance
Excellent point! The whole world went right on buying their ugly Pentium boxes because they worked. The Windoze world didn't seem to care much at all about what their boxes looked like as long as they were fast. This G5 still looks better than anything the Dark Side can muster and now it runs circles around them, too. Really, what's not to like about that?
     
rytc
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Jun 23, 2003, 04:52 PM
 
Anyone notice how the Applestore webpage now has the specs and images of the G5 but still says "Dual processors up to 1.42 Ghz G4" A little bit of irony on Apple's part perhaps. Not sure if I like the case but!
     
zigzag
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Jun 23, 2003, 05:01 PM
 
I think it's a big improvement in design over the previous generation, but then I lean towards minimalism. It looks like a machine rather than a plastic appliance. Clean and elegant, yet rugged and fully functional. A larger version of what the Cube should have been (I love my Cube so don't get excited - I just think it would've been more successful with this approach).

It's basically an intersection of two rectangles (the outer case and the inner case), each with rounded corners. The cut-outs for the handles (from the side profile) reinforce the roundness of the corners. Very nice.

And the clean layout -
     
 
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