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Nintendo Revolution (Page 6)
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ort888
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Sep 16, 2005, 12:22 PM
 
The more I think about it the better it gets in my mind. If they release it for a low price, say $200 or less, they might have a chance to have a nice little niche system.

I could see how that controller could be a lot of fun.

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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 16, 2005, 12:38 PM
 
I am pretty sure this means Nintendo will be dead last in console sales. PS3 and Xbox are going to sell like hot cakes in the US.

Not a bad thing as long as they make money in their niche.

Unless some game comes out that blows my mind I am skipping this sucker.

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JHromadka
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Sep 16, 2005, 01:35 PM
 
Look at this video. The people in it are demoing how certain games (FPS, Mario, Zelda, etc) would work with the controller.

Imagine playing Zelda where you move the controller to swing the sword a certain way. Pull the remote towards you and squeeze the trigger to fire it. The fishing game would kick ass.

Better pics of the remote and better descriptions.
     
davesimondotcom
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Sep 16, 2005, 02:10 PM
 
I could imagine it would be great fun with a baseball game, or swinging the sword as Link.

What I don't quite get is the analog stick with the cord... seems like that would be difficult to use together with the remote thing.

I sold my Cube and bought an XBOX just because their were so few games I wanted to play on the Cube. I hated Mario Sunshine, which is too bad, because I still think Mario 64 was the best game I've ever played. But Sunshine felt tedious, always having to clean up messes. If I wanted to do that, my house would be a game.

(Although I might think about picking up a Cube again just for the new Zelda, but that's a different story.)

At least Nintendo is thinking out of the box, trying to do something new. Maybe Revolution isn't just the name, but what it actually is.
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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 16, 2005, 02:41 PM
 
I want to see the TV attachment thing.

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Kerrigan
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Sep 16, 2005, 03:16 PM
 
This is by far the dumbest controller I have ever seen. Some time ago I was given a gyration ultra (tm) mouse as a gift, and I tried it out. In the last two years I have used its gyroscopic feature maybe 4 times max.

You say you want a revolution? This isn't it, this is just the work of a stubborn Japanese business. Probably somebody from the top, the CEO or project manager or someone, became fixed with the idea of a gyroscopic controller and designed the entire console around this weak idea.
     
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Sep 16, 2005, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
I want to see the TV attachment thing.
From what I gather, the sensors are all inside the remote (gyroscopes? inertia switches?); there is no sensor equipment ala PowerGlove, EyeToy.
     
goMac
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Sep 16, 2005, 04:15 PM
 
The more I think about it, the more I think it's the perfect controller for games like Halo. It's perfect point and shoot controller.

I'm still not convinced for arcade style games like Smash Brothers though. Nintendo is certainly going to have to break out of their traditional game areas to make this work.
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goMac
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Sep 16, 2005, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Honestly I like the idea, but I don't like the way it is being implemented. I like a gyro in a controller to sence motion, the idea of moving in a 3D space is also cool.

This is what I don't like:

The shape of the conroller is horrible.

Not enough buttons

I HATE the idea of placing sensors on top of your TV. Yuck.

The add on joystick cable shouldn't be connected by a cable. Try moving around with the joystck and swinging the remote like a sword. You'll rip the other controller out of your hand.

No games were shown, only extremely crude demos

I can't see many 3rd Parties supporting it. Nintendo is going to have to develop all the games (which means few and far between.

The slower hardware and strange controller means all the games coming out for Xbox and PS3 will not get ported to the Nintendo.

Putting all your eggs in the controller means Sony or MS could come out with an add on that does the exact same thing within a month. NIntendo loses the edge right there.
What are you talking about with the shape? It's the same shape as a tv remote. I don't think the shape is a problem.

The lack of 3rd parties could very well be a good thing. Instead of Revolution getting Halo 13, or Grand Theft Auto 26, publishers will be forced to create new unique games for Revolution.

Sony or MS can't simply add on these controllers. The hardware interaction is too complex.

They may just have one sensor on the TV for all the controllers. That wouldn't be very bad at all.
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Kerrigan
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Sep 16, 2005, 04:52 PM
 
Nintendo is headed down the path to irrelevancy where lie many other well-intentioned but poorly implemented product families, like Palm OS or Betamax or the Mac. People say that it will be fine when they find their niche, but what they don't realise is that a niche product is always on the verge of becoming extinct.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by ink
From what I gather, the sensors are all inside the remote (gyroscopes? inertia switches?); there is no sensor equipment ala PowerGlove, EyeToy.

That is what they want you to think.

"The unit is held in one hand. It interacts with included motion sensors (which are placed on the left and right sides of televisions)"

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goMac
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan
Nintendo is headed down the path to irrelevancy where lie many other well-intentioned but poorly implemented product families, like Palm OS or Betamax or the Mac. People say that it will be fine when they find their niche, but what they don't realise is that a niche product is always on the verge of becoming extinct.
Huh? Why are you dismissing the Revolution controller? It's perfectly built for sports games and shooters, which are traditionally places Nintendo ignores. They aren't simply going down the same path they went with the Gamecube, they're changing course.

The controller looks pretty good, but again, it's going to come down to games. The Nintendo DS was a different system. It wasn't as graphically strong as the PSP. It still dominates the hand held market and has tons of games for it, even though it's different enough people can't do straight across ports.

History would be to differ with you Kerrigan.
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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac
What are you talking about with the shape? It's the same shape as a tv remote. I don't think the shape is a problem.
Name the last remote you found comfortable.

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goMac
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Name the last remote you found comfortable.
Ummmm... any of them?

Do you need a pictorial guide to properly holding a remote?
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olePigeon
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:10 PM
 
I heard Coleco's coming out with a console to end all consoles.

That's just what I heard.
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ort888
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:12 PM
 
You can stick your wee-wee in it.

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OB1
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:21 PM
 
I definitely want to have a go with it after seeing the video.

The lack of 2 analogue sticks seems like a step backwards. - yeah, I know, the plug in analogue stick + swing your hand around = dual analogue, but I can't help feeling all that swinging your hands around is going to get boring. Sometimes you just want relax and have a little late night gaming session...

Did I read that 'Revolution' is backward compatible with the old Gamecube controllers? Do you think we might see most games being cube-controller-compatible? Cool with me - I love the Gamecube controller.

I'm sure I'll buy the new Nintendo console soon after it's available.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:23 PM
 
Another thing to keep in mind Nintendo is coming from 2 platform bombs.

The N64 resulted in 3rd parties not wanting to support expensive ROM carts. Nintendo lost the market to PS2 because of this.

The gamecube allowed newcomer Microsoft to beat a company that has been the leader for 20 years.

This new system is make or break. Nintendo better be happy as a niche.

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goMac
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Another thing to keep in mind Nintendo is coming from 2 platform bombs.

The N64 resulted in 3rd parties not wanting to support expensive ROM carts. Nintendo lost the market to PS2 because of this.

The gamecube allowed newcomer Microsoft to beat a company that has been the leader for 20 years.

This new system is make or break. Nintendo better be happy as a niche.
No, they're coming from the DS, which like the Revolution, is a very different system with different controls, and the DS was a massive success.
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olePigeon
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:34 PM
 
My Coleco has a rotary dial. I can turn it.
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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 16, 2005, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac
No, they're coming from the DS, which like the Revolution, is a very different system with different controls, and the DS was a massive success.
The DS is not a home system, it is a portable. They are coming from the cube and N64 which tanked.

Home systems:
Nintendo 8 bit. Huge hit.
Super Nintendo: Huge hit.
Virtual boy: huge tank
N64: tanked
GameCube: Tanked

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ort888
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Sep 16, 2005, 06:02 PM
 
The N64 didn't tank, it just got whooped by the Playstation. It was moderately successful.

The Gamecube, now that's a tank.

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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 16, 2005, 06:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888
The N64 didn't tank, it just got whooped by the Playstation. It was moderately successful.

The Gamecube, now that's a tank.
The N64 wasn't as big a tank as the cube but trust me, it tanked. If somehow a new system like sony can overtake the market that quickly when Nintendo's previous 2 systems were a hit something must have been very wrong with it.

3rd parties just hated the N64.

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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 16, 2005, 06:14 PM
 
This new system is not shipping before May 2006 as the Nintendo Reps didn't even know if there would be playable games by E3 next year.

Xbox 360 ships in 2 months. The PS3 early next year.

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goMac
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Sep 16, 2005, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
The DS is not a home system, it is a portable. They are coming from the cube and N64 which tanked.
Huh? This makes no sense. It's not like this is a genetic descendant of the Gamecube. It's a game system from the same people that brought us the Nintendo DS system. Nintendo has recently been very good at taking "different" systems and winning with them.
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goMac
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Sep 16, 2005, 06:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
This new system is not shipping before May 2006 as the Nintendo Reps didn't even know if there would be playable games by E3 next year.

Xbox 360 ships in 2 months. The PS3 early next year.
Some games will obviously fit into the ports category. Any sports games, shooters, and adventure games will be easy ports to the Revolution. Also they already have a new Smash Brothers and Metroid Prime in the works. And it's backwards compatible, which as history has shown, sold a lot of Nintendo DS's when there were not many DS games.
( Last edited by goMac; Sep 16, 2005 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Meant to say Revolution, not DS)
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Sep 16, 2005, 08:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Name the last remote you found comfortable.
My Tivo remote is pretty darn comfortable.

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Sep 16, 2005, 08:58 PM
 
-The DS is owning the PSP.
-The GBA/SP is owning the PSP.
-More software is being sold on the Nintendo portable systems than on the PSP.
-The PSP broke the record the NDS set in the UK, by about 100k units. whoppie. and the folling week, sales flattened out. meanwhile, in Japan the NDS has been outselling the PS2 and PSP for...more than a few months now.
-The GameCube didnt fare well. they admit it. Bad marketing and advertizing crippled the console from the very begining. Yet the competitors seemed rather content to mimic the controller down to the last detail....after a few revisions of course. oh well....Iwata has admitted they missed the boat with the GCN.
-Developers ? when the NDS came out....many 3rd parties, refused to think outside the box. thats fine....Nintendo published software on the platform it created for that purpose. Nintendogs has pushed hardware sales, as well as expanded the demograph to include women as well. Kudos. Then came 'brain teaser' or whatever....appealed to everyone. Kudos once again.
-The PSP ?.....*crickets chirping*......SHS and starman jump out of their basements and yell. but you can buy UMD movies (which anoyone in their right mind would buy on DVD anyway), and theyre sellingthrough the roof. The screen is huge, and it's got some great games (mostly racing, but thats okay)
-Take a look at Sony's gaming unit and the XBox teams, earnings over the past generation. that'll give you an idea as to what ppl are willing to spend money on. Now look at Nintendo. in the black from day 1.
-I would hardly call Nintendo a 'niche'. Some people like to throw that word to try and convince potential buyers that the console they prefer has mass appeal(which is so dosent). Ill take this 'remote control' over the boomerang any day by the way. The PSP is a 'niche' product, in the pockets of geeks and nerds, mostly males aged between 18-35. Nintendo's products on the other hand, appeal to kids, teens, adults, men, women, etc....products like....Super Mario brothers, Duck Hunt, Metroid, Zelda, Mario Party(i know more girls who like this game than guys who like Halo), Mario kart(appealing to women as well, unlike GT4, etc), Nintendogs...goes without saying. So yeah...a niche player would be one focusing on a particular segment of the population. So far.... the only time i can attribute that title to nintendo, is when it came out with it's first advertizing and marketing campaign for the Cube, where they said they would focus on the kid market, which as we all know now was a mistake. But i would hadly say Nintendo is confining itself to a 'niche'. If the 'nich' you geeks are talking about is 'everyone else'(including women, kids, etc...as opposed to 18-35 year old males) then yeah...Nintendo is a 'niche' player....chances are that 'niche' is a considerable bigger than the target audience for the Microsoft and Sony porducts.

Revolution:
for all you nay-sayers.....
-buy a PS3 and knock yourelf out with the boomerang(no pun intended). i'll bring you hours of fun im sure.
-Remember that GCN controllers have ports on the revolution as well, and seeing as how wthe XB360 and PS3 controllers are almost identical to the button layout and configuration of the GCN controller, i would haddly consider it a challenge for 3rd parties to port and focus on 'tranditional' gaming.
-This revolution controller is a compliment to the traditional controller. and having GCN ports onthe revolution proves that. If Nintendo intended all the games for Rev to utilize the 'wand' they wouldnth ave supported backwards compatibility and GCN controllers.

So quit your bitchin about Nintendo. theyre doing fine. And from the looks of it, they'll do just fine with the revolution in the non-only-geek or non-onlyhardcore-gamer 'demographic(which incidentally includes everyone including geeks....such as myself).

Cheers
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Sep 16, 2005 at 09:05 PM. )
     
goMac
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Sep 16, 2005, 09:35 PM
 


The controller has a normal Gamecube controller dock for more complex games.
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Sep 16, 2005, 10:09 PM
 
I'm friggin' sold. That is awesome. Best of every world right there, and all the new worlds to comes.
     
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Sep 16, 2005, 10:13 PM
 
I thought the idea was to simplify gaming, not make it more complex by require all sorts of cumbersome add-ons to the original controller.

The only good thing about the console is that you will have access to all the old-school games, which I enjoy. So I might buy one just to use the controller NES style and play Jaws or Megaman. But for proper video games I will stick to XBox.
     
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Sep 16, 2005, 10:16 PM
 
Yeah, it really looks cumbersome.

Hopefully the controller is exactly like the mockup. I love that white and blue iBook-esque look.
( Last edited by MindFad; Sep 16, 2005 at 10:36 PM. )
     
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Sep 17, 2005, 02:39 AM
 
since the remote unit can plug into a gamecube controller like that, you get the GC controls in addition to the ability to maneuver thru 3D space. nice.
     
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Sep 17, 2005, 03:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood
since the remote unit can plug into a gamecube controller like that, you get the GC controls in addition to the ability to maneuver thru 3D space. nice.
Exactly. Frickin' genius, in a word.
     
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Sep 17, 2005, 03:04 AM
 
I'm probably going to be getting one. So far:
+cheaper price
+smaller
+something special & innovative
+traditional gameplay as well
+free wifi
+backwards compatibility to the very begining
-Still havent seen any games for it.

Cheers

P.S>> just watched the video/commercial on IGN. And it was kinda refreshing.....over this past generation gaming was primarily attributed to like fast cars, and shooters. That commercial highlighted other areas of interesting interactivity....music being one of them. exploration(flash light...very cool). food , fishing(recreation), sword fighting...without using buttons !!! very cool new stuff here(along with the old of course...racing will be cooler since u'll be able to steer, shooters will be better cause ull actually have to aim instead of controlling a crosshair using the d-pad, sports games will be far more interactive..... baseball as higlighted) very cool.
( Last edited by Hawkeye_a; Sep 17, 2005 at 07:17 AM. )
     
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Sep 17, 2005, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
"The unit is held in one hand. It interacts with included motion sensors (which are placed on the left and right sides of televisions)"
That sucks. Hopefully they'll be practically invisible. I already have a bazillion cables connecting everything together. I have to admit that the DS has better games than the PSP so far (unless you count snes9x ); perhaps Revolution will have better games than the PS3 or the 360.

The last system to have a funky controller was the Dreamcast, if that's any indicator. Kick-ass system for _gamers_, lemming _consumers_ didn't think it was "cool" enough for whatever reason.
     
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Sep 17, 2005, 01:00 PM
 
All I can say is wow! This is going to change the way we play video games from now on.

As for consumer confusion. Only the "TV" remote and the add-on analogue stick is planned to be in the box when you buy the Revolution. So people will have this new standart from the beginning.

The Wavebird shell is only an option. So all games will be made to be compatible with the basic in the box hardware (remote + analogue).

This will also probably bring the full customazing of your buttons and style of play. Always want to play with the "traditionnal" game pad extention? No sweat. You only want to play your games with the included remote? No problem.

Don't forget that the spacial 3D that the new remote brings will eliminate a lot of buttons needed, you get 3 axes of imput just from moving it.

And to people who ask, no you're not supposed to be able to acces the a and b buttons with the same hand. Turn the control 90° and you have the NES pad (and you still have access to 3D input!).

-

If this new technology is to much for you, you can always continue playing the games in the same way you did for the last 20 years. With the "shell" option or with Sony and Microsoft's next offering.

-

Now the hard part begins; waiting for it to be available!
     
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Sep 17, 2005, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by babble
All I can say is wow! This is going to change the way we play video games from now on.




If this new technology is to much for you, you can always continue playing the games in the same way you did for the last 20 years. With the "shell" option or with Sony and Microsoft's next offering.

-

Now the hard part begins; waiting for it to be available!


part 1: agreed

part 2: agreed

part 3: i'm willing to give nintendo all the time it takes to make sure this is polished, well thought out, and not a flop.

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Sep 17, 2005, 02:39 PM
 
I am willing to go out and say this looks exciting. Something new!
     
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Sep 17, 2005, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a
Nintendo's products on the other hand, appeal to kids, teens, adults, men, women, etc....products like....Super Mario brothers, Duck Hunt, Metroid, Zelda, Mario Party(i know more girls who like this game than guys who like Halo), Mario kart(appealing to women as well, unlike GT4, etc), Nintendogs...goes without saying.


I met my girlfriend because she'd always come over to play Mario Party and Smash Brothers.

Nintendo gets you women.
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Sep 17, 2005, 05:02 PM
 
The PS3 is purportedly in the range of $500-$800 price wise...

Who is going to buy that, and how is it going to dominate Nintendo in the land of sharply raising Gas prices? At least MS has it sorta right by keeping it at $300 for the base set. (I think different SKUs are ****ing stupid, it'll only confuse customers. Look at what they're doing with Vista: 21 different SKUs if you count x64 editions *sigh*)

I'm excited about the new Nintendo Controller. I think it'll rock.
     
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Sep 17, 2005, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by brokenjago
The PS3 is purportedly in the range of $500-$800 price wise...
Perhaps sony just said that to make MS think they can price the 360 high.

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Sep 17, 2005, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Perhaps sony just said that to make MS think they can price the 360 high.
Huh? You mean scaring away potential customers is all part of a master plan now? C'mon. We know the Cell is going to be expensive.
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babble
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Sep 17, 2005, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lancer409
part 3: i'm willing to give nintendo all the time it takes to make sure this is polished, well thought out, and not a flop.

Same here. I want the remote controller to work as well as I think it will from the promo video. Don't be surprised if it doesn't come out before Christmass 2006.
     
CobraMantis
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Sep 17, 2005, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Another drawback is that something like this will have quite a lag, i bet that is the real reason for no HD.
What do you mean? Lag between moving the controller and the system processing the motion, or some sort of performance-related lag? The second part of your sentence makes me think you mean the latter, and if so, I can't help but wonder why you'd think that. The former has historically been a problem with wireless and VR-ish systems, but should not be an issue today for Nintendo.

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
I can't see many 3rd Parties supporting it. Nintendo is going to have to develop all the games (which means few and far between.
Reports have been that many major third-party developers have been praising Nintendo's new controller and are enthusiastic to jump onboard (THQ, Ubisoft, Electronic Arts, Activision...etc). I guess we'll see whether they follow through with such firm support.

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
I am pretty sure this means Nintendo will be dead last in console sales. PS3 and Xbox are going to sell like hot cakes in the US.
You're pretty sure?! How? The overwhelming response I've seen from developers, gamers, and non-gamers has been somewhere between piqued interest and ferocious, unbridled anticipation. Then there is a much smaller handful who fervidly oppose Nintendo's decision and yell loudly that nobody's interested.

It isn't true. Sorry.
     
Salty
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Sep 17, 2005, 08:34 PM
 
I gota say first time I saw it I hated it. Then I thought about it... and I realized how cool this will probably be. This combined with the DS shows Nintendo really cares about making quality products. All they need to do is announce a partnership with Apple to allow you to save your downloaded older system games on your iPod and take em to your friend's house
     
Hawkeye_a  (op)
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Sep 17, 2005, 08:39 PM
 
Cobra Mantis: Agreed. i guess SHS must be refering to the 18-35 male demographic. Of course the PS3 and XBox360 will seel like hot cakes to that niche. It's like selling alcohol to alcoholics...when they could instead have Red Bull which would give them wings (alcohol = PS3, XB....red bull = Nintendo )

And yeah....i'd hardly call Nintendo a niche player. gaming journalists and ps3/xb fanboys would like to think so. But i think theyre just sore that their demograph isnt being paid as much attention to as 'everyone else'...by Nintendo, and hence they will flock to Sony and M$ for their graphix/specs fix.

I dont think schedule is going to change the outcome for the revolution much. It's really a device on it's own. this past generation, everything was all a little too similar, what with everyone doing roughly the same thing....and therefore the first one to market won. Now, if you want to experience the unique console as a whole, you wont be getting it from any of the competitors, and chances are when it comes out you'll buy it (if the right games are available of course).

Personally, i want them to iron out all the bugs and get rid of any issues. Also...i dont mind attahing something to my TV....i doubt they will make some hideous attachment though.

Im still stunned that they have accomplished this. i mean, it's quite groundbreaking technologically speaking.... a fully 3D point/aiming device. without overly expensive hardware.
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Sep 17, 2005, 11:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by CobraMantis
What do you mean? Lag between moving the controller and the system processing the motion, or some sort of performance-related lag? The second part of your sentence makes me think you mean the latter, and if so, I can't help but wonder why you'd think that. The former has historically been a problem with wireless and VR-ish systems, but should not be an issue today for Nintendo.
Every story so far has mentioned that there is a processing delay with these sort of things.

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goMac
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Sep 17, 2005, 11:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker
Every story so far has mentioned that there is a processing delay with these sort of things.
If you're using radio waves, yes. However, these things look to be using IR (hence the TV remote attachment) which would mean the transmission speed is... uhhhhh.... the speed of light? (although someone is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong).
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Kerrigan
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Sep 17, 2005, 11:48 PM
 
The tv attachment idea is a bit too tacky. Teh lame.
     
 
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