[the macimum]

I Don't think it is, does'nt music have INSTRUMENTS or at least a singing voice, isn't rap just basically people talking in rhymes. People say that rap takes talent, to be able to rhyme, but don't rock songs or pop songs have rhymes in them too? Please tell me, with proof, how it is music.

[the macimum]

Damn contractions, I always get them wrong..

[eltrut]

Why ? I know many Rap songs that use musical instruments...

[Jawbone54]

Rap Music - world's most widely-used oxymoron

[mdc]

What if a rap song has a choir in the background? Then it has "singing" in it.

I was a youngin' when rap became popular (Run DMC and the like) and it was bearable. This stuff nowadays - and especially Gangsta - just makes me want to vomit. I immediately assume anyone who loves it is a complete and utter moron. Right up there (and probably worse than) Britney fans.

The whole "gangsta cool" mentality that so many kids try to emulate is not only incredibly ignorant but dangerous. The human race took a huge step backward with this genre and corporate America making it vanilla just proves the genre is stupid and a waste of time. It's used to sell hamburgers, clothes, soda and shoes. It is the new jingle - and who the heck would listen to the jingles of old cranked at 500 watts in their car?

Good lord - have I turned into my Dad??

FWIW - I still listen occasionaly to De La Soul and Arrested Development - they actually have a good message.

[Spliffdaddy]

They call Jimmy Buffet's crap "music" - so I guess anything qualifies.

[jokell82]

It all depends on what you're talking about. The over-commercialized rap that you see on MTV is pure ****, but I'd say it's more qualified to be called music than the latest pop crap that's out there. You have people who can't sing and can't play an instrument selling millions of records because of the way they look. I'll take any rap over Ashley Simpson any day of the week.

And then there's bands like Jurassic 5, De La Soul, etc. that really do amazing things in the rap genre. And they're extremely talented and play instruments on stage. I'm not sure how you could question whether or not that is actually music...

[Briareus]

They call Steve Reich's "It's Gonna Rain" music. Some even call John Cage's "4:33" music.

All a matter of perception, I guess. (I'm not a rap/hip-hop fan either, but I won't dismiss it's validity as a form of sonic expression)

Obvious query to throw out here: Define "music"

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

They call Jimmy Buffet's crap "music" - so I guess anything qualifies.

qft.

[ort888]

Pure ignorance.

In the fifties you would have been asking... is Rock and Roll music?

Or Jazz... or any other type of new music. (not that rap is new...)

"Boy, them colored folk sure do make sum funny noises."

[wataru]

Originally Posted by ort888

Pure ignorance.

In the fifties you would have been asking... is Rock and Roll music?

Or Jazz... or any other type of new music. (not that rap is new...)

"Boy, them colored folk sure do make sum funny noises."

Hear, hear. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not music.

[ort888]

Also, if rap is so easy, I want to hear you make a rap song. Go ahead and record one and upload it and we'll see how easy it is to rap. You can even use someone else's beat and everything.

[MacManMikeOSX]

Is RAP (notice the capitals) music? = I'm unoriginal and white and I like to make observations about things that are decidedly not white just like other white people.

[zmcgill]

I think any genre of music will have its good and bad. Just like rap has 50 cent/Ludicris/Nelly (equation for rap song: push a few buttons on the beat machine + women/i'm so sexy/drugs/killing people/i have lots of cool stuff = $$$$$$), any other genre will have cookie-cutter wannabes who are unoriginal, uninspired, and just plain suck. Then there are people like Ashley Simpson, who's songs are a combination of someone else's music and her computer-altered voice. The problem is that rap/hip-hop is so popular right now and its being shoved in our faces all the time.
Like others have said, there are quite a few 'rap artists' out there with real talent that put real thought into what they're saying, and are possess actual musical talent.

[Dakar]

If you don't like rap music, you're racist.

[::maroma::]

Rap is music. Period. Despite whether or not you like that sort of music, its still music. Yes there is Rap music out there that just plain sucks. There is also TONS of Rock and Pop music out there that just plain sucks.

If you're asking that question you are watching way too much MTV or you are listenging to way too much commercial radio. Go out, talk to some people who know Rap/Hip-Hop and find some real artists to listen to. You'll quickly realize that Rap is music, and there is a ton of really good Rap/Hip-Hop out there. You'll also realize that Rap is not easy to do. On the surface it seems like just a bunch of rhymes set to a beat. But in reality it is a very carefully crafted lyrical rhythm, usually with a message of some sort, that enhances the music that it is set to.

There's a reason why Rap/Hip-Hop has been around for as long as it has. And there's a reason why its the most popular music genre out there today. Its because it has substance. Its real and its good. You'll always have the crappy mainstream stuff out there, but the real Rap/Hip-Hop has merit. Open your mind and you'll see.

[hickey]

No one hates commercial Rap more than me. But no one likes quality, personal, and meaningful Rap more than me either.

Check out MF Doom, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Gangstarr, Big L, Busdriver, and of course the aforementioned Jurassic 5 for some good stuff.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Dakar

If you don't like rap music, you're racist.

No, but if you go out of your way to ask whether or not it's music, you just might be.

[Dakar]

I have this sudden feeling I might regret that joke.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Dakar

I have this sudden feeling I might regret that joke.

See you on page 8, buddy.

[Jim Paradise]

Grab some MF Doom (or Madlib, or Madvillain), A Tribe Called Quest, Asheru, Guru (notably his Jazzmatazz Vol. 1), Beastie Boys, Rza, k-os, Blackstar, Smiff 'n' Wessun, or Pharcyde and you'll enjoy it.

[olePigeon]

1) 2 second sample repeated for 3 minutes
2) Ryme something about hos and gangstas
3) Profit!!!

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by chris v

See you on page 8, buddy.

.

[SpaceMonkey]

Is MAC a computer?

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

equation for rap song: push a few buttons on the beat machine + women/i'm so sexy/drugs/killing people/i have lots of cool stuff = $$$$$$

Originally Posted by olePigeon

1) 2 second sample repeated for 3 minutes
2) Ryme something about hos and gangstas
3) Profit!!!

You're a genius!

I think that the problem is that the worst ones are the most popular. They're the ones getting movie deals, their own tv shows, making the news all the time, at every red carpet event, in every commercial, etc. No one hears about the truly good ones.

[MacManMikeOSX]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Is MAC a computer?

Is DIPSHIT a word?

[hickey]

While we're on the subject of Rap, how many folks here listen to Rap on a regular basis, and if so, what artist(s)?

I listen to it often, gangstarr is my favorite right now.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by MacManMikeOSX

Is DIPSHIT a word?

Is YOUR POST directed at me?

[MacManMikeOSX]

I listen to hadag nachash and subliminal, oh yes it is in fact israeli jewish rap.

[MacManMikeOSX]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Is YOUR POST directed at me?

Never EVER in a million years.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by MacManMikeOSX

Never EVER in a million years.

Oooook

[MacManMikeOSX]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Oooook

[mdc]

Originally Posted by hickey

While we're on the subject of Rap, how many folks here listen to Rap on a regular basis, and if so, what artist(s)?

I listen to it often, gangstarr is my favorite right now.

Quasimodo
Pumpkin Head
Atmosphere
Brother Ali
(Most of the people on Rhymesayers)
MF Doom
DangerDoom

Off the top of my head that has been playing a lot recently in my car.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by MacManMikeOSX

Wanna make out?

[MacManMikeOSX]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Wanna make out?

Damn now I'm totally ****ing lost. Time for me to go out back and get high.

[gururafiki]

Originally Posted by Jim Paradise

Grab some MF Doom (or Madlib, or Madvillain), A Tribe Called Quest, Asheru, Guru (notably his Jazzmatazz Vol. 1), Beastie Boys, Rza, k-os, Blackstar, Smiff 'n' Wessun, or Pharcyde and you'll enjoy it.

If this is music, then anything else can be music too.

[the macimum]

I wasn't saying it wasn't I was asking why some people say it is.

[the macimum]

Originally Posted by ort888

Pure ignorance.

In the fifties you would have been asking... is Rock and Roll music?

Or Jazz... or any other type of new music. (not that rap is new...)

"Boy, them colored folk sure do make sum funny noises."

That isn't true, Rock and roll must have sounded weird in its earlier days, but it has plenty of instruments, if RAP had any instruments I would at least call it bad music.

[gururafiki]

Originally Posted by the macimum

I wasn't saying it wasn't I was asking why some people say it is.

Well, it is sold in music stores...thats my guess to why some people say its music.

[the macimum]

Originally Posted by MacManMikeOSX

Is RAP (notice the capitals) music? = I'm unoriginal and white and I like to make observations about things that are decidedly not white just like other white people.

= I'm Black and I don't give a damn about anything as long as it comes out of a white guys mouth. Are you an idiot, there are plenty of white rap artists. (Notice the non-capitals).

[Salty]

Paul Wright
http://www.myspace.com/paulwright
(he's apparently let his website die I have no idea why)
or Mat Kearney
http://www.matkearney.com/

Both of those are Acoustic Rap, they're from Oregon and are freaking phenomenal. Paul's got a kinda surfer feel, where was Mat... I dono he sounds like he's got a black voice but musically he's just super rich.

Then you have John Reuben one of my favourite rappers
http://www.johnreuben.com/
Again not typical, he tends to tour with a live band that plays with him.

See Rap in and of itself is not evil. It's just speaking fast to music, the problem is that ghetto rap tends to be mindless drivel to a mindless beat. None of these artists will say bitch or ho either . That said... they all are white.

[the macimum]

Originally Posted by Salty

Paul Wright
http://www.myspace.com/paulwright
(he's apparently let his website die I have no idea why)
or Mat Kearney
http://www.matkearney.com/

Both of those are Acoustic Rap, they're from Oregon and are freaking phenomenal. Paul's got a kinda surfer feel, where was Mat... I dono he sounds like he's got a black voice but musically he's just super rich.

Then you have John Reuben one of my favourite rappers
http://www.johnreuben.com/
Again not typical, he tends to tour with a live band that plays with him.

See Rap in and of itself is not evil. It's just speaking fast to music, the problem is that ghetto rap tends to be mindless drivel to a mindless beat. None of these artists will say bitch or ho either . That said... they all are white.

Yeah, but I was reffering to the general genre, so I'll give it to you.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by the macimum

That isn't true, Rock and roll must have sounded weird in its earlier days, but it has plenty of instruments, if RAP had any instruments I would at least call it bad music.

Is electronic music music? Is a computer an instrument? What about people who sing acapella? What about chanting monks? Is chanting music? Why isn't a synthesizer and/or mixer an instrument?

What about the sound of the rusty hamster wheel in your brain squeaking? Is that music? What about the rhythmic sound of your drool dripping out of your gapping mouth?

Squeak squeak drip, squeak squeak drip, "IS RAP MUSIC, DER...", squeak squeak drip, squeak squeak drip, "DUR, UH UH" squeak squeak drip, squeak squeak drip...

Now that's a beat I can dance to.

[CollinG3G4]

Originally Posted by the macimum

I Don't think it is, does'nt music have INSTRUMENTS or at least a singing voice, isn't rap just basically people talking in rhymes. .

I'd say most contemporary music fits into that category considering the effort and thought classical masters had to put into their music. I’m not just talking about Mozart or Beethoven here, but rather music since the 12 tone system came into play.

[Jawbone54]

Love Mat Kearney's stuff, especially Nothing Left to Lose.

[davesimondotcom]

Yes.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by the macimum

I wasn't saying it wasn't I was asking why some people say it is.

Uhhh.. excuse me? Your original post:

Originally Posted by the macimum

I Don't think it is, does'nt music have INSTRUMENTS or at least a singing voice, isn't rap just basically people talking in rhymes. People say that rap takes talent, to be able to rhyme, but don't rock songs or pop songs have rhymes in them too? Please tell me, with proof, how it is music.

Sounds to me like you are saying just that.

[storer]

Music = Organised sound.

Eg. Your microwave makes music when it beeps.

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by Salty

Then you have John Reuben one of my favourite rappers
http://www.johnreuben.com/
Again not typical, he tends to tour with a live band that plays with him.

John Reuben's awesome! I've seen him live a couple times and he's autographed a bunch of stuff for me. I saw him with his DJ and a second time with the live band, right before his latest album came out. I was right in front and he saw me rapping along with him, so for a few lines he leaned down and put the mic up to my mouth.