[kent m]

I was also hoping for actual system level mouse Roll Over support as well. Maybe it's in there?

I assume the Finder is now Native?..

[Person Man]

[QUOTE=kent m;3408994I assume the Finder is now Native?..[/QUOTE]

What the heck is that supposed to mean???

Oh, I get it. You don't think that Carbon is native.

CARBON IS JUST AS NATIVE AS COCOA!!!!! So the Finder has ALWAYS been native.

The Finder doesn't suck because of Carbon. It sucks because it's a badly written app.

[kent m]

Jeez louise.

I mean that I was hoping that it was moved into being Native so that it would respond 'correctly' as other apps do when using - say - Virtual Desktops from Codetek to - say - activate some hidden features such as - say - the Focus Follows Mouse feature, which currently is all wonky because the Finder is not Native. (Note the lack of exclamation points in that line). I could give other reasons, but that's enough.

And I don't think the Finder 'sucks'. It's quite nice, generally.

You may want to edit that last post...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by iz3r 

I know I am new, and very late in this conversation. But people like sleek and eye pleasing desktops, at least it appeals to the main stream.

But my main point here, this is OSX 10+, we own the computing world at most anything, and all features in 10.5 are changeable, so if you do not want transparency, just turn it off.

OS X does not own the computing world outside of content creation, sorry.

[besson3c]

Kent M: your choice of the word "native" is inaccurate, that's all. The Finder is native, the features you want have nothing to do with nativeness.

[kent m]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Kent M: your choice of the word "native" is inaccurate, that's all. The Finder is native, the features you want have nothing to do with nativeness.

Ah, right. Thanks for pointing that out. Just me being lazy with my wording. I meant Carbon...

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by kent m 

Ah, right. Thanks for pointing that out. Just me being lazy with my wording. I meant Carbon...

Er…Finder has always been Carbon. It still is.

[Thinine]

Gah, Lightroom is not the Pro UI.

Stupid database, I posted after the screen shot of Lightroom.

[Ado]

Just give us a PRO ui apple.

Removed oversize image -- OreoCookie

[analogika]

Ack, no.

"Pro", not "Goth".

People want to *work*, not kill themselves in darkened rooms.

I think the new unified look will work very well.

[dru]

Originally Posted by kent m 

Yes, but showing it and having it as a string of text that can be cut and pasted is quite different. The only way to do this now is to keep the Terminal open or to use a CM add-on like 'Path To Clip'. I use this a ton at work and when I'm doing web dev, and I'd just like to have it available. It's a minor thing because you can get a sort of similar thing via the CM plug-in, I was just hoping it would be an option in the new Finder.

I don't know if you use TextEdit or something like Dreamweaver but if you have TextEdit open and the document is "Plain Text" you can drag/drop any file in there and it pastes the full path.

You can also use the Edit menu to "Copy" in the Finder and Paste into the Terminal to paste the path.

It's all up to the target of your operation whether you get the path or not. Drag/drop into a text field in Safari also pastes the path so why don't you try that and see what your app(s) do.

[MindFad]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Ack, no.

"Pro", not "Goth".

People want to *work*, not kill themselves in darkened rooms.

I think the new unified look will work very well.

Adobe Emo.



I rather like Leopard's new interface. I have my gripes, but I like it the best out of all of OS X's "iterations" when it comes to GUIs.

[Catfish_Man]

I'm still wondering where this fabled "turn off menubar transparency" option is. I'm sure not seeing it, and I have my desktop background set to a neutral grey image to fake it.

[bearcat2000]

While 10.5 have a lot of quirks to take care of, one must remember it is still an alpha build and has a while to be polished yet before it's released in October.

[bearcat2000]

Oreo, I respectfully disagree. As can be seen by the build number, it is clearly alpha still regardless of what Apple branded it at WWDC. However I'm sure we will see a beta build number soon.

[OreoCookie]

Leopard is in beta, the difference between alpha and beta is that (almost) no features will be added once it has entered beta stage … beta doesn't mean stable.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by bearcat2000 

Oreo, I respectfully disagree. As can be seen by the build number, it is clearly alpha still regardless of what Apple branded it at WWDC. However I'm sure we will see a beta build number soon.

How on earth does the build number define a beta?

[OreoCookie]

Perhaps he is referring to xAyyy vs. xByy(y) builds? However, I don't think this can be used to distinguish alpha and beta builds.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Perhaps he is referring to xAyyy vs. xByy(y) builds? However, I don't think this can be used to distinguish alpha and beta builds.

Yeah, that has nothing really to do with it. The release build for Cheetah was 4K78. The last beta release, if I recall, was also in the 4K** range.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by MindFad 

Adobe Emo.



I rather like Leopard's new interface. I have my gripes, but I like it the best out of all of OS X's "iterations" when it comes to GUIs.

Castilla y León agrees

V

[- - e r i k - -]

While I'm sure Leopard's UI is going to grow on me, I still right now find it less attractive than a normal Unified interface that UNO's been providing me with.

[MindFad]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Castilla y León agrees

V

I have to ask, who's that?

[- - e r i k - -]

Hmmm... not sure if I like these type of menus:




They look disturbingly detached somehow.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by MindFad 

I have to ask, who's that?

ah yes that is the autonomous community of Castilla y León, where Salamanca is situated.

Similar to a state in the US.

V

[- - e r i k - -]

Finder and iTunes are still pretty different when it comes to the sidebar implementation. Finder's is more subtle with a nicer selection:



Also in this picture, note how iTunes non-standard interface is not dimmed in the background like the other Finder window. Also how the arrows are placed too low for their buttons. In fact all the buttons in Finder share this characteristic whereas Safari has the opposite problem with the arrows a pixel too high. All the other buttons remain the same.

[- - e r i k - -]

Also of note:

• When the dock is placed on it's side, stacks will always display files in grids as opposed to fanning them out, no matter how few files are in it.

• CoverFlow is amazingly responsive and nice looking, even when dealing with thousands of images. I tried CoverFlow with the All Images Spotlight folder (which simply says More than 4000 files). It won't display previews of files unless you stop or slow down. But the cool part is that if you drag from one point to a random point, it will have cached the files before the scroll stops, so when it gets to your "destination" the preview is already there! Very very slick. You'll have to see this in action. Oh, and I seem to have lot of strange pictures on my harddrives

[MindFad]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Hmmm... not sure if I like these type of menus:




They look disturbingly detached somehow.

They do feel a bit strange and detached, but I actually like that rounded look (of the drop window itself). So are we rounding everything now? To round or not to round? Are we gonna stick with something solid now, Apple? Please?

I like this new look. It's growing on me.

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Also of note:

• When the dock is placed on it's side, stacks will always display files in grids as opposed to fanning them out, no matter how few files are in it.

Booo! I hope they change that. I like my Dock on the left, and I'd like a horizontal "fan."

• CoverFlow is amazingly responsive and nice looking, even when dealing with thousands of images. I tried CoverFlow with the All Images Spotlight folder (which simply says More than 4000 files). It won't display previews of files unless you stop or slow down. But the cool part is that if you drag from one point to a random point, it will have cached the files before the scroll stops, so when it gets to your "destination" the preview is already there! Very very slick. You'll have to see this in action. Oh, and I seem to have lot of strange pictures on my harddrives

CoverFlow in the Finder (especially with QuickLook) is gonna be sweet and very helpful for me. I'm looking forward to it.

[- - e r i k - -]

The rounded menus are nice. The menu selection colour does not seem to respect graphite, and the blue gradient feels a bit Windows-ish to me. Weirdly the menu bar is now always square, even on desktops. I presume this is side effect of "putting the desktop image in focus" that Steve was talking about

CoverFlow in Finder is a dream. I didn't quite grasp it during the keynote, but it's a really really effective way of previewing your files. I'm amazed at how well it works.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Castilla y León agrees

V

So does Norddeutsche Tiefebene.

C

[Ado]

Can someone bring me upto speed? I just saw the UI from Leopard 9A466 Gallery
Leopard UI looks ****'else.... How could Apple do this? Whats with that garbage transparency in the findermenu?

[analogika]

They went with a sense of aesthetics and usability, but obviously forgot to get all the improvements "authorized" by you.

[- - e r i k - -]

The new UI is a refinement of the old no doubt. There are just some changes that seems to be change for change's sake and "look what we can do". I am of course talking about the dock and the menubar. Everything else seems to be on the brink of perfection. Meaning that with a little tweaking we'll have the best interface yet in operating systems.

Spit and polish of the individual elements seems to be what's remaining for release in October.

Oh, and some ironing bugs out. Games in Rosetta that worked perfectly before no longer runs in Leopard. I especially talk about my newly discovered gem of the moment: Rise of Nations.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by analogika 

So does Norddeutsche Tiefebene.

C

Is that in Prussia or Austria-Hungary?

V

[- - e r i k - -]

Stop your bickering. Here's more juicy goodness for you:


Hope this one makes it into the final release

Dock imported my hacked settings just fine. Here it is pinned to the bottom:
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/images/ui/smalldock.png

But the setting that makes the icons translucent when the apps are hidden it had a strange problem with:
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/images/ui/dockbug.png

Here's the smallest the dock can get, just for MindFad
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/imag...smalldock2.png

A few 512x512 icons:
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/images/ui/fontbook.png
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/images/ui/terminal.png

I really like the new folder icons. They have a gritty dirty texture to them in large sizes:
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/imag...redfolders.png

The big shadow looks quite weird if you have drawers out of bottom of windows:
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/images/ui/bigshadow.png

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Stop your bickering. Here's more juicy goodness for you:


Hope this one makes it into the final release

How is this juicy? Why is there a "connect as" button when two mount points are already being displayed? This seems rather awkward.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How is this juicy? Why is there a "connect as" button when two mount points are already being displayed? This seems rather awkward.

Take another look at that screen

There is a connect as because you automatically connect as either guest or the last account you connected as (providing you save the password to the keychain of course). You want to be able to log in as other users too. The mount points themselves appear under devices. The shared tab is for connecting (like network used to be).

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Take another look at that screen

There is a connect as because you automatically connect as either guest or the last account you connected as (providing you save the password to the keychain of course). You want to be able to log in as other users too. The mount points themselves appear under devices. The shared tab is for connecting (like network used to be).

Huh? I don't understand what you are trying to say...

I've used a Mac for a long time, and if I find that interface a little confusing, surely others will too.

[- - e r i k - -]

It's connected to a PC and it's icon has a blue screen of death on it.

There. Was that really so hard?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

It's connected to a PC and it's icon has a blue screen of death on it.

There. Was that really so hard?

Oh.. didn't notice that. Subtle

The interface does need some improvement in providing more clarity though, IMHO.

[- - e r i k - -]

Any suggestions? I think it's heads and shoulders above the previous way to do it.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Any suggestions? I think it's heads and shoulders above the previous way to do it.

Well, how about this...

When there are no connections to the server, leave everything the way it is in the current screen except obviously remove the shares that are listed there, and change the "connect as..." button to simply be "connect".

Once you have connected as a user, make the parent folder (i.e. replace what is listed there) the person's username, and have clicking on this username list the shares that belong to this user. This way, we can keep share names associated with the user they belong to, which will be particularly useful for when somebody may be sharing a folder with an identical name.

The part that threw me the most was the "connected as: guest" and then immediately below this the connect as button. Huh? I'm already connected, doesn't the connect as button sort of contradict this feedback?

First of all, you cannot connect as multiple users on a single server using AFP, which would make this quite confusing. Maybe this has changed in Leopard (I hope so), but for all other connection methods how about placing a "connect as other user" button of some sort below the listing of usernames already connected to the server?

Does this make sense?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Is that in Prussia or Austria-Hungary?

Which one was the one that supported Franco?

I forget.

[moonmonkey]

Thanks for this Erik,

In your opinion is the Finder a total rewrite? do icon, list and column views feel exactly the same?

Is the networking totally fixed now?

Any spinning rainbows in the finder at all?

Cheers.

[- - e r i k - -]

In my opinion the Finder is absolutely perfect. This is the FTFF that we have waited for. I don't know if it's been rewrote, but there is absolutely no beachballs whatsoever. And I have pushed it to the limit with networking, spotlight searches and cover flows.

[CaptainHaddock]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

A few 512x512 icons:
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/images/ui/fontbook.png
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/images/ui/terminal.png

I really like the new folder icons. They have a gritty dirty texture to them in large sizes:
http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/imag...redfolders.png

Those icons all seem to have blurry edges and other issues. Either they're being scaled, or Apple still has a crapload of interface work to complete.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock 

Those icons all seem to have blurry edges and other issues. Either they're being scaled, or Apple still has a crapload of interface work to complete.

If you look, the blurred ones are third party apps, Apples are perfectly crisp.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey 

If you look, the blurred ones are third party apps, Apples are perfectly crisp.

Exactly. Meaning all the third parties are going to have to design 512 x 512 icons for their apps, too.

[Taylor C]

I can't stand the new dock. It's a pointless upgrade to something that had -nothing- wrong with it, something that doesn't add any functionality. I'd personally be more impressed if Steve had just said 'We added stacks to the Dock' instead of redoing the entire thing. It's hideous, seriously. I love the new Finder, though, but I still wish they hadn't done anything to the menu bar.

I keep hoping that they'll revise the UI before Leopard is actually released; but I'm concerned they won't because they've already hyped the entire thing (including VIDEOS) on their website. Come on, Apple, at least give us the option to use a classic Tiger interface, barring the brushed metal and non-unified windows.

[Chuckit]

A lot of people hated the original Dock when it was first shown as well. We'll see how people feel in a few months.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Finder and iTunes are still pretty different when it comes to the sidebar implementation. Finder's is more subtle with a nicer selection:



Also in this picture, note how iTunes non-standard interface is not dimmed in the background like the other Finder window. Also how the arrows are placed too low for their buttons. In fact all the buttons in Finder share this characteristic whereas Safari has the opposite problem with the arrows a pixel too high. All the other buttons remain the same.

iTunes is the "old" test bed for the interface, and Apple seems to have refined it since the last iTunes update.

Furthermore they will probably use .nib files for iTunes in the future.