[V12]

I recently developed a taste for this classical music however it is difficult to find many songs that suit what i enjoy. Can anyone recommend some symphonies with that are very strong and moving and not as 'dull' or relaxing as others. If you know of the pirates of the caribbean orchestra theme am looking for something along those lines, songs that grow to a great apex. Help this noob out, thanks in advance!

[CharlesS]

Try anything by these composers: Prokofiev, Stravinsky, or Bartók. They will not bore you.

For sheer size and scope, try Mahler or Wagner. However, these composers' music tends to be long, so they require a decent attention span.

Some others to look at: Liszt (for piano music), Berlioz.

[dav]

i thought of prokofiev first as well. there's an outtake from romeo & juliet suite on youtube. looks like a youth orchestra, but it will give you an idea.

montagues and capulets

beethoven's odd numbered symphonies are an obvious choice as well.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by dav 

beethoven's odd numbered symphonies are an obvious choice as well.

Clearly, but it looks like the OP is asking for recommendations on music he's not already familiar with, and I doubt he hasn't heard of the Beethoven symphonies already.

[finboy]

Movie scores are great listens (Hans Zimmer used the Gladiator soundtrack for most of Pirates II). Dvorak, Holst as well.

[CharlesS]

Ooh, forgot about those. Yes, Dvořák and Holst are excellent choices as well.

If you like movie scores, Prokofiev wrote a bunch of those too. The score to Alexander Nevsky is considered by many to be the greatest movie score ever written (although the recording used in the original film was of atrocious quality due to the terrible recording equipment available in Stalinist Russia). If you listen to modern movie music, you can often hear influences from Nevsky and other Prokofiev movie scores.

Another piece I forgot about that you'd probably enjoy is Saint-Saëns' Symphony No. 3 (often referred to as the "Organ Symphony"). Saint-Saëns is admittedly somewhat of a "fluffy" composer at times, but his third symphony is special, especially at the end where the organ comes in with full stops, backed up by a full symphony orchestra with all the percussion. It's an exciting piece.

[olePigeon]

I was gonna suggest anything by John Williams.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I was gonna suggest anything by John Williams.

Particularly good if you like Holst.

[CharlesS]

Or Richard Strauss.

[olePigeon]

If you like a mixture of styles in a single score, check out Greg Edmondson and his Firefly sound track (in my sig.) He uses all sorts of different instruments both western and asian, and mixes them beautifully.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Ooh, forgot about those. Yes, Dvořák and Holst are excellent choices as well.

If you like movie scores, Prokofiev wrote a bunch of those too. The score to Alexander Nevsky is considered by many to be the greatest movie score ever written (although the recording used in the original film was of atrocious quality due to the terrible recording equipment available in Stalinist Russia). If you listen to modern movie music, you can often hear influences from Nevsky and other Prokofiev movie scores.

Another piece I forgot about that you'd probably enjoy is Saint-Saëns' Symphony No. 3 (often referred to as the "Organ Symphony"). Saint-Saëns is admittedly somewhat of a "fluffy" composer at times, but his third symphony is special, especially at the end where the organ comes in with full stops, backed up by a full symphony orchestra with all the percussion. It's an exciting piece.

Great recommendations, both posts

[Faust]

Prokofiev is an excellent choice, especially Violin Concerto No.1 and No.2. His Ballets are wonderful as well.
Other composers that have not been mentioned yet (I think) that I can recommend are Brahms, Mendelssohn Bartholdy, Rachmaninov, Rossini, Saint-Saens (especially Samson and Dalila) and Bizet.

[Sijmen]

Giuseppe Verdi

[besson3c]

This thread should be merged with mine, I'm getting a lot of great ideas here

[V12]

thanks for the imput, now i have some amazing symphonies to listen to while smoking a cigar and sipping on some scotch =p

keep them coming!!

[Patrick]

Did you say you were looking for songs or for symphonies? They're two very different things.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Mozart yet. I recommend his 40th and 41st symphonies, among his most famous ones.

In addition to Beethoven's symphonies, check out his piano concertos. No. 5 is my favorite.

A couple more favorites are Schubert's 8th and 9th, respectively known as his "Unfinished" and "Great" symphonies, though he's considered to be in the romantic era rather than the classical one (nowadays people incorrectly use the term "classical music" in reference to anything orchestral that doesn't sound "modern").

[- - e r i k - -]

What about Vivaldi? He can rock out with his c*ck out!

[abe]

Not a classical piece, per se, but straddling the genres of classical and jazz is Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue." Also "An American in Paris."

Rhapsody in Blue Pt 1
YouTube - Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue pt.1/2

Rhapsody in Blue Pt 2
YouTube - Gershwin - Rhapsody in Blue pt.2/2

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Patrick 

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Mozart yet.

The OP mentioned that he is not looking for "relaxing" music - what I'm inferring from that is that he is more interested in a Romantic or twentieth century sound. Give him time, and I'm sure he'll learn to appreciate Mozart and Schubert, but sometimes it's best to find the right place to stick your foot in the door.

In addition to Beethoven's symphonies, check out his piano concertos. No. 5 is my favorite.

Dude, No. 4 is definitely better than No. 5 (although 5 fits this thread better, I'll admit)!

(nowadays people incorrectly use the term "classical music" in reference to anything orchestral that doesn't sound "modern").

Stuff that's "modern" is definitely considered classical music - look at Boulez or Crumb. What people refer to as "classical music" is differentiated from popular music, which existed in the old days too - in fact, many of the classical composers wrote pieces based on popular/folk tunes (Liszt, for example, did a lot of this). The confusion comes from the fact that there's also a period known as the Classical period which encompasses Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven. Some people refer to it as "Western art music" in order to avoid this namespace collision - whatever. It's just terminology.

Now, back on topic!

Originally Posted by Faust 

Prokofiev is an excellent choice, especially Violin Concerto No.1 and No.2. His Ballets are wonderful as well.

Well, if we're considering concertos, I'm going to have to throw in some piano concertos as well. And Prokofiev happens to be just the composer for those! Check out his Piano Concerto No. 3, preferably the Argerich/Abbado recording. Amazingly beautiful melodies, exciting fingerwork, castanets - what's not to like? Once you've heard that one, listen to Prokofiev's Piano Concerto No. 2 (my recommended recording is Ashkenazy/Dutoit), which will kick your ass all the way from start to finish, although it is more complex and has more of a learning curve (hence why I suggest you listen to No. 3 first). It's also one of the hardest things to play on the piano that I'm aware of.

Here are some other piano concertos that I recommend:

- I know I'm trying to avoid the stuff that everyone's heard ten thousand times, but I really can't make a list of piano concertos without mentioning Rachmaninoff's 2nd and 3rd. 'Nuff said.

- Tchaikowsky's piano concertos, for the same reason (although I bet you haven't heard his 2nd and 3rd).

- Liszt wrote two very exciting piano concertos (though I prefer the lesser-known second concerto over the popular first). There's a great recording on amazon.com by Richter that's only $10 and has both of them, plus the Liszt Sonata in B minor, one of the greatest piano works ever written.

- These composers also wrote great piano concertos: Schumann, Grieg, Bartók, Brahms, obviously Beethoven. There's a piano concerto by Samuel Barber that kicks quite a lot of ass. Saint-Saëns wrote five piano concertos - his second is popular, although I'm kind of sick of it. It has an intro that sounds like Bach and a finale that sounds like a train rushing out of control. Ravel wrote two great piano concertos - his Piano Concerto in G major is in a style based on jazz, and his Piano Concerto for the Left Hand sounds like it's not just one hand! Lowell Liebermann is a composer who's alive today who has written a few piano concertos that are becoming popular, although I'm not as familiar with them.

Hmm, this got a bit disorganized - I hope it is still helpful to you. Definitely listen to some Prokofiev!

edit: I see that someone had to stick Rhapsody in Blue in there while I was writing this post. Meh... Ravel's G Major concerto will kick its ass anyday. Gershwin also wrote a piano concerto, in F major I think - although Ravel > Gershwin (in my opinion anyway!).

[besson3c]

Pines in Rome by Resppeghi (sp?!) and The Rite of Spring by Stravinsky are great... I also like Mahler 2 and 5, and Alexander Nevsky is fun and accessible too!

[Faust]

CharlesS, actually I'm listening to Tchaikovsky's 2nd and 3rd piano concertos right now.

Another violin concerto I can recommend is Tchaikovsky's Violin Concert in D, Opus 33. Very sweet and extremely emotional in my opinion. It gets me teary-eyed every time.

Edit: My favourite interpretation of the above has to be by Jascha Heifetz.

[CharlesS]

Hehe, judging from your handle, I've gotta ask whether you ever listen to any Liszt.

[subego]

I've always thought Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition would make an excellent sci-fi film score.

You'll want Ravel's orchestral arrangement, though that is what most people think of when they think of the piece

[CharlesS]

If you get the Panorama disc for Mussorgsky, it has both Ravel's orchestration and the original piano version on it (Richter plays the piano version, I forget which conductor does Ravel's).

[Faust]

Well, yes, I do but not excessively. The handle has to do with the classic drama Faust by J.W. Goethe. Liszt's Faust-Symphony was inspired by Goethe's Faust, hence its name.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Hehe, judging from your handle, I've gotta ask whether you ever listen to any Liszt.

[subego]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

If you get the Panorama disc for Mussorgsky, it has both Ravel's orchestration and the original piano version on it (Richter plays the piano version, I forget which conductor does Ravel's).

I have one that has the Ravel arrangement (by the Rotterdam Philharmonic) and Mischa Dichter with the piano arrangement.

I actually like the piano arrangement more, though the Ravel version is obviously going to have a leg up in the bombastic department. Likewise, I think it would have been tough (for me at least) to appreciate the piano arrangement without first being a fan of the Ravel arrangement.

Walking over to the AppleTV now. Needs me some Mussorgsky. Piano style.

Edit: for those who don't know, Mussorgsky wrote it as a piano piece, and Ravel rearranged it for an orchestra some 40 years later. The Ravel arrangement is more popular than the original by at least an order of magnitude.

[Bassoonman]

Wow! Lots of good suggestions so far, possibly enough to overwhelm the OP.

V12,

First, let's talk about "Western Art Music" just a bit, so you gain a little orientation. Perhaps the most accessible music, and that which you might just be seeking, is program music. This is music that is intended by the composer to portray some type of action or to tell a story. In other words, it has a "program." As such, this type of music is often the most immediately exciting to listen to.

However, for a newbie, it will be important that you know, beforehand, the story or action that is being described musically. Search for good program notes online, or read those that most times come with a purchased CD.

Probably the most famous example of this type of music is Berlios's "Symphony Fantasique." It starts out as a love story (albeit opium-fueled and paranoid!), proceeds to murder, execution by guillotine (complete with a head bouncing down the gallows stairs), then ends with a descent to hell, a rousing party of witches lead by the now-harlot (and murdered) lover, and eternal torment by demons and goblins. Lots of fun to be had!!

Once you have gained your footing with something "concrete" like Fantastique, it will be easier for you to move to other, potentially more abstract, program music. All of Richard Strauss's tone poems are programmatic. His tone poems stand on their own musically, but they really begin to come to life, as it were, once the listener knows what's being described. Soaring mountains, raging tempests, a beating heart and labored breath (and eventually a heart stopped by heart attack), frolicking children and an argumentative family, a passing hunting party, nagging critics, etc., etc. All these things and many more, up to and including an ascent to Heaven, can be explicitly heard in Strauss's music.

Having some "program" to follow, giving you at least a tenuous framework in which to listen, will help you to learn the musical "language," which in turn will give you an appreciation for all art music, not just the stuff that is rousing in nature. Instead of putting you to sleep, the more gentle selections will convey the emotion or sentiment they are intended to convey (all music is communication, if only of general "feelings" or sentiments).

Of course, you should be listening to live music, performed by real people that you can see in front of you. And, there's no better type of "program music" than opera. For Heaven's sake, you live in NYC!!! Get thee to the Metropolitan or New York City Opera!!! If you have never attended a good opera, I'll tell you that it is probably not what you think. How about a young lady who: 1) makes a deal with the baddie to sleep with him in exchange for releasing her boyfriend from a firing squad, 2) stabs the baddie to death, only to end up finding she was in turn double-crossed (and her boyfriend still gets shot to death), 2) finally, curses the (now dead, of course) baddie and summarily throws herself off the battlements? Yeah, it's a bummer everybody must die, but it makes for some rousing drama and music!

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Faust 

Well, yes, I do but not excessively. The handle has to do with the classic drama Faust by J.W. Goethe.

Well yeah, but Goethe's drama isn't music, and thus not relevant to this thread. Whaddya trying to do, derail the thread?

Liszt's Faust-Symphony was inspired by Goethe's Faust, hence its name.

Yup. So were his Mephisto Waltzes. He also transcribed some Faust-related music by other composers, such as some music from Gounod's opera and Gretchen am Spinnrade by Schubert.

Apparently a bit of a legend sprung up around Liszt during his lifetime, accusing him of having sold his soul to the devil in exchange for his skills. Liszt liked the publicity and ran with it. He also did a bunch of pieces related to Dante's Divine Comedy (including his other symphony).

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by subego 

I have one that has the Ravel arrangement (by the Rotterdam Philharmonic) and Mischa Dichter with the piano arrangement.

I actually like the piano arrangement more, though the Ravel version is obviously going to have a leg up in the bombastic department. Likewise, I think it would have been tough (for me at least) to appreciate the piano arrangement without first being a fan of the Ravel arrangement.

Well, the piano score is pretty orchestral... it's no accident that there have been so many orchestrations of the piece (Ravel's, of course, being the most famous).

[V12]

thanks for the post basoonman, i'm doing some research and planning some dates to go to the opera and possibly see the new york city philharmonic. Now have a few weeks off for winter intercession i can devote some time to new curiosities, hobbies, and interests.

thanks again,

V12

[Faust]

Oh, die Gretchen Frage.

Sorry for derailing but it's your fault. You got me all excited and now I'm listening to Liszt.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Well yeah, but Goethe's drama isn't music, and thus not relevant to this thread. Whaddya trying to do, derail the thread?


Yup. So were his Mephisto Waltzes. He also transcribed some Faust-related music by other composers, such as some music from Gounod's opera and Gretchen am Spinnrade by Schubert.

Apparently a bit of a legend sprung up around Liszt during his lifetime, accusing him of having sold his soul to the devil in exchange for his skills. Liszt liked the publicity and ran with it. He also did a bunch of pieces related to Dante's Divine Comedy (including his other symphony).

[- - e r i k - -]

Bassoonman wins the thread. Post of the week!

[Bassoonman]

V12,

Well, NYC opera doesn't rev up until March, but the Met is performing now. In fact, "just the ticket" might be coming up on Dec. 24th, depending on how you want to "jump in." At 1:00 pm on that day, there is a performance of Engelbert Humperdinck's (yes, Engelbert Humperdinck, but not the one of whom you are thinking ;-) ) "Hansel and Gretel." This would be light fare, compared to potential others, but it is being sung with the English translation. The English translation of H&G is considered by many as one of the most successful translations of an opera, and this might be more accessible to you as an opera newbie.

If you really want to be grabbed by the hair (or other anatomical parts), though, it turns out that NYC opera is, in fact, performing just the opera which I mentioned earlier (although I didn't know it when I posted). It is "Tosca," by Puccini. NYC opera is performing it March 22, 28, 30, and April 3 & 5. This one is being performed in the original Italian with supertitles in English.

Both good choices, but which one you pick is a matter of your own taste, and whether or not you want to wait until March.