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gunnar · Feb 13, 2003, 02:22 AM

I'm looking at an iPod from the perspective of an audiophile. I intend to use it with AIFF uncompressed files of entire albums. Is this possible? Do albums with no track spaces play without "gaps"? Is the headphone output sufficient to drive larger open back headphones from AKG/Beyer etc.? Lastly, how long does the battery really last and how much does this deteriorate over time?

chabig · Feb 13, 2003, 02:36 AM

I don't know about your headphone question, but if you have tracks without space between them, and you want to make sure they stay together, you can tell iTunes to rip them as one song. In fact, you could the album as one whole piece.

Chris

playby · Feb 13, 2003, 12:18 PM

The sound quality on the ipod is decent but you're pretty much stuck with what it gives you. The EQ presets are a joke.
I find the sound quality on my sony MZR 900 (minidisc) is better, if only for its ability to push more bass. This is using Sony DJ 700 headphones (the big round silver ones with 'SONY' written across the headband)

I use a powerbook 667 DVI and find that if I open iTunes, set the system volume at about 50 - 60% (5 - 6 notches from full in OSX) and iTunes' volume to about 70% with the EQ off, and my headphones plugged directly into the computer, I get the same sound quality as I would from the iPod.

I don't know if all macs have the same sound out though.

Hope this helps

b

xtal · Feb 13, 2003, 12:28 PM

If you are considering using headphones that require that much power, you should think about using the iPod in conjunction with a headphone amplifier. They're usually pretty small (deck of cards) and will fith the bill nicely.

If you're feeling adventurous, you could pick up a kit online to build a headphone amp yourself. That sounds like fun (to me at least).

CatOne · Feb 13, 2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by gunnar:
I'm looking at an iPod from the perspective of an audiophile. I intend to use it with AIFF uncompressed files of entire albums. Is this possible? Do albums with no track spaces play without "gaps"? Is the headphone output sufficient to drive larger open back headphones from AKG/Beyer etc.? Lastly, how long does the battery really last and how much does this deteriorate over time?

Hmmm. Well the sound quality is good -- how specifically are you going to use it though -- with the headphones plugged straight into it?

I'd think if you ripped your songs at 320 kbps they'd be good enough -- have a look at the MP3 sites which pretty much say in a double blind test nobody can tell a difference once the bit rate is over 256. For me I can differentiate between 128 and 192 quite easily so I use 192 for everything... but then again I'm using it when I'm out and about (riding my bike, walking, ...) so there's external noise. I did get some Sony "in the ear" headphones and they're MARKEDLY better than the normal white ones.

Battery is easily a full 10 hours... though it can drain when sitting idle... for example if you charge it fully and let it sit a week you may only get a few hours, but my old one still got 11+ hours on a full charge if it was "hot off the charger" when it was a year old. Because it leaked so bad off the charger (say after a day it would have NO charge) I got a brand spankin' new one after 255 days under warranty :-D

xtal · Feb 14, 2003, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by CatOne:
I'd think if you ripped your songs at 320 kbps they'd be good enough -- have a look at the MP3 sites which pretty much say in a double blind test nobody can tell a difference once the bit rate is over 256.

Do you have the link to any of those MP3 sites handy? It will save me having to Google and sift through the junk.

Thanks.

G4ME · Feb 14, 2003, 01:50 AM

with the head phones, compatabiliy, i am guessing that the head phones have 1/4 adapter, if thats so you will have to get an adapter, buck or two at rat shack, but then it will be mighty gommy.

plus you know that you will only be able to fit about 7 cds worth of music if you use AIFF?

gunnar · Feb 14, 2003, 03:01 AM

Yes, I'm aware that I'll only get 7 to 10 CDs in AIFF but I don't care. I don't want to carry those CDs around, plus I will have SOME MP3s that I don't really care about sound quality which are at lower bit rates. I'm not interested in any debates whether 320kbps is indistinguishable. Purely, is this the best solid state player available and is it going to do justice to my Grado RS1s or whatever earphones I decide to buy. Sound quality is paramount obviously. I can buy a great portable CD player but I want the added convenience of the iPod.

wreks · Feb 14, 2003, 04:19 AM

dude if you're that much of an audio purist phile why don't you just walk down to your comp usa/apple store whatever and take a listen for yourself.

seems with quality headphones you won't get the most out of them unless it's with leet equipment or a headphone amp.. I'm sure it holds true with ipods

atomium · Feb 14, 2003, 11:29 AM

gunnar-

One thing to consider is that the battery life is good because of the 32 MB buffer. Basically, the iPod spins the drive long enough to load the buffer, and then plays from RAM.

If the file you are playing is larger than the buffer, it spins the drive constantly, and chews through battery like crazy. The constantly spinning drive also generates a good bit more heat.

I have a couple albums that were ripped to MP3 all in one piece and won't listen to them on my iPod anymore.

My normal usage is commute to work with it and listen all morning in the office. Plug in and recharge over lunch. Listen for the rest of the day and then commute home, still listening all the while. Playing something that would spin the drive constantly during my morning commute would guarantee a dead battery well before lunch.

Your usage will probably vary, but it's something to keep in mind.

-atomium

chabig · Feb 14, 2003, 12:13 PM

If the file you are playing is larger than the buffer, it spins the drive constantly, and chews through battery like crazy.

It's not supposed to work this way...mine doesn't. The iPod will fill the buffer, spin down the hard drive, and play from the buffer for a good 20 minutes or so. Then it spins up the hard drive, refills the buffer, keeps playing, and spins down the hard drive.

Chris

atomium · 12:53 PM

Originally posted by chabig:
It's not supposed to work this way...

Not only do large and/or uncompressed songs hurt battery life:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61434

They are also more prone to skipping
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=61018

Based on the statements in the second article, we can also look at it like this: Reading from the RAM buffer involves no moving parts, and therefore can not skip. If large songs can skip, they must be reading from the drive. Reading from the drive must involve the drive spinning. The drive spinning is a mechanical process that requires additional battery power.

We may have to agree to disagree, but between public Apple docs and personal experience, I'm sticking with my previous post.

-atomium

gunnar · Feb 14, 2003, 01:30 PM

Unfortunately, we don't have CompUSA in Canada and there's no place that will demo them. With the exchange the 5GB iPod (which isn't available anywhere) costs $479 so I don't really want to buy it without trying it first.

chabig · Feb 14, 2003, 02:18 PM

Perhaps you are right. Maybe the iPod has to have the entire track in RAM at once. That would be poor design, wouldn't it?

Chris

cowerd · Feb 14, 2003, 02:26 PM

Why rip to AIFF? You must surely know that the weak link in the chain (if you splurge for some hi-end headphones) is the iPod amp. So unless you get a Headroom Airhead to power your Grado's its still garbage in-garbage out to a certain extent.

Rip your mp3s at 256, or 320 if you must, and get some decent headphones. Save the audiophile toys for home. To do otherwise would be like hooking up a cheap AV receiver to a pair of $5000 speakers and expecting heavenly results.

CatOne · Feb 14, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by xtal:
Do you have the link to any of those MP3 sites handy? It will save me having to Google and sift through the junk.

Thanks.

Sure. Took me a bit, but go here:

http://www.r3mix.net/

And have a read on the "quality."

Also there's an Ars Technica article:

http://www.arstechnica.com/wankerdes...mp3/mp3-1.html

Recall iTunes uses the Fraunhofer codec.

gunnar · Feb 14, 2003, 02:41 PM

Okay cowerd, so you're saying that the iPod really isn't an audiophile device. How does it compare to a top of the line Sony CD portable like the DEJ1000? Same, better, worse?

cowerd · Feb 14, 2003, 05:01 PM

Okay cowerd, so you're saying that the iPod really isn't an audiophile device. How does it compare to a top of the line Sony CD portable like the DEJ1000? Same, better, worse?

Couldn't tell you as I've not heard that model. However when I did own a portable CD player it did not sound as good as my stereo--wow and flutter issues from motor speed as well as the usual low-fi stuff--compressed highs and boomy bass. The iPod sounds just as good, or bad, if you want to put it that way, but I can fit hours of music in a 6.5oz package and my CDs don't get lost or damaged.

The iPod allows me to listen to music anywhere and shuts out the world when I want. If it sounds good, that is a bonus. When I am at home listening to my stereo I expect it to sound good; any other experience and I've spent my money badly. As with any stereo stuff, try to find an iPod you can listen to and make your own evaluation.

G4ME · Feb 14, 2003, 06:57 PM

if all you are interested in is the audiophile quality of a portable player, get the freakin CD player, yeah its true digital music driectly from the CD, but its more of a hastle, CD exchanging and ****. The ipod is solves the hassle problems. i say save the cash get the CD player and have fun jugling CDs

lextek · Feb 14, 2003, 07:37 PM

I use my iPod with Grado RS2 and Etymotic 4Ps. I have MP3s encoded at 192VBR. I ripped some at higher bitrates and AIFF. Not really a big difference. I am very, pleased with the sound quality. If you have not visited this website. Check it out. www.head-fi.com

G4ME · Feb 14, 2003, 10:55 PM

nice link, it must be the geek in me but damn DIY seems like so much freakin fun

lextek · Feb 15, 2003, 12:13 AM

The META amps are fairly, easy to build an are truly awesome.

gunnar · Feb 16, 2003, 12:58 AM

Thanks for that head-fi link. That's pretty much what I was after. In conclusion, the iPod is one of the best sounding portable devices, especially if you can accept 256 or 320 kbps. For AIFF, a CD player is probably better long term value, and ultimate sound quality because of the non-proprietary batteries and proven technology.