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Dark Helmet · Mar 30, 2006, 06:15 PM

I noticed that the logic board for the Apple Intel developer kits were much smaller than the current G5's. If Apple uses a chip that is smaller, uses less power and less heat the Towers will need some major reworking.

First, liquid cooling and 9 friggin' fans won't be needed.

Apple may use the extra room to allow for a secondary optical drive or more than 2 hard drives.

OR...

Do you think they will take the same approach as the mini, iMac and MacBook Pro's and not change much other than the guts?

Apples last tower design lasted between 1999-2003 years with only minor changes.
The G5's came out in June 2003.

CharlesS · Mar 30, 2006, 06:25 PM

Maybe they could start using the El Capitan design again. That was a sweet tower case...

Dark Helmet · Mar 30, 2006, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Maybe they could start using the El Capitan design again. That was a sweet tower case...

As long as they don't make it blue again

Anywho, to me the G5 is the most sexy tower ever made, it looks like it is from some Post-modern Sci-fi set from the 70's.

Even thought the inside is pretty it is wasteful in terms of space as most of it is heatsyncs and fans.

::maroma:: · Mar 30, 2006, 06:48 PM

I hope the do a redesign, or at least an updated form factor. Maybe just a smaller version of the current design. I really like the latest G5 case design, but the only quip I have with it is the size. Its a bit big for me.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a totally different design. Something to help signify that this isn't just the same old PPC G5 inside there. Either way I'm excited to see what they do with them, inside and out.

Kevin · Mar 30, 2006, 06:55 PM

Yeah the G5 is just too big.

A smaller version, or a redesign.

Doofy · Mar 30, 2006, 06:59 PM

Please let it be anything but silver. Silver makes things look like they belong on some post-modern sci-fi set from the 70s - which only really appeals to homo/metrosexuals.

Dark Helmet · Mar 30, 2006, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Please let it be anything but silver. Silver makes things look like they belong on some post-modern sci-fi set from the 70s - which only really appeals to homo/metrosexuals.

Considering how many non-insecure people love the design I say props to the Homo's then.

Doofy · Mar 30, 2006, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Considering how many non-insecure people love the design I say props to the Homo's then.

Problem is, Apple's current pro case designers seem to think that everyone lives in an NYC loft. Folks don't. Silver-coloured items are too cold and industrial and thus don't belong in any home other than the aforementioned loft.

If Apple were to offer a wider choice of case designs (i.e. something in black) their market share would go up. Simple as that.
Women have a "little black dress" not a "little silver dress". Think about that.

Maflynn · Mar 30, 2006, 07:12 PM

I love the G5 case design, but it is just way to big and bulky. I have to believe they will.

greenamp · Mar 30, 2006, 07:16 PM

No way the G5 tower is too big. It is big and heavy for the same reason a BMW 7 series is big and heavy.

It isn't big and heavy because of the G5 cpu. It's Apple's top of the line computer, their "luxury" computer. It's made of heavy metal and sits confidently on your desk.

If anything, the G5 PowerMac is prettier now than it was when it was 1st introduced. IMO they should keep the design for a long time.

Dark Helmet · Mar 30, 2006, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Problem is, Apple's current pro case designers seem to think that everyone lives in an NYC loft. Folks don't. Silver-coloured items are too cold and industrial and thus don't belong in any home other than the aforementioned loft.

If Apple were to offer a wider choice of case designs (i.e. something in black) their market share would go up. Simple as that.
Women have a "little black dress" not a "little silver dress". Think about that.

Um ya black, every PC manufacture on the planet hasn't thought of that one.

Since you don't live in a "loft" where homosexuals and Metro's live would you be happier with an oak wood-grain or plaid for you hardcore Heterosexuals?

Dark Helmet · Mar 30, 2006, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by greenamp

No way the G5 tower is too big. It is big and heavy for the same reason a BMW 7 series is big and heavy.

Well like I said it is full of fans and liquid cooling. Either they keep it the same size and make better use of the space for internal expansion or they shrink it by 25%.

Who cares about the weight? I don't hear my desk complaining.

greenamp · Mar 30, 2006, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well like I said it is full of fans and liquid cooling. Either they keep it the same size and make better use of the space for internal expansion or they shrink it by 25%.

Who cares about the weight? I don't hear my desk complaining.

The only reason it's full of fans is so that it can run whisper quiet. Even if they slapped a couple dual core Intel chips in it, several fans running at lower speeds would still be the best way to keep it running quietly. And the liquid cooling deal was because the updated G5 chips they were using were nothing more than over clocked older chips.

The G5 PowerMac design is all about the visual impact it has on your desk.

Dark Helmet · Mar 30, 2006, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by greenamp

The only reason it's full of fans is so that it can run whisper quiet. Even if they slapped a couple dual core Intel chips in it, several fans running at lower speeds would still be the best way to keep it running quietly.

Dude I know that. But 4 of them PLUS liquid cooling are just for the G5 chips. The heat-sync is 10 pounds. Hopefully the Intel chips will not be as hot and judging again by the dev kits they aren't.

On a side note nobody better bitch about silver if Dell has SOLD OUT of this $9000 PC in one week...

mduell · Mar 30, 2006, 07:26 PM

The G5 towers are huge. Sure, they have 2 CPUs and 8 RAM slots, but only 4 PCI slots, 1 optical drive, and 2 hard drives. A Shuttle XPC is about one third the volume, yet holds 1 CPU (dual core today, could be quad core tomorrow), 2 RAM slots, 2 PCI slots, 1 optical drive, and 2 hard drives. That's a lot of extra volume just for 1 CPU, 6 RAM, and 2 PCI.

Dark Helmet · Mar 30, 2006, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

The G5 towers are huge. Sure, they have 2 CPUs and 8 RAM slots, but only 4 PCI slots, 1 optical drive, and 2 hard drives. A Shuttle XPC is about one third the volume, yet holds 1 CPU (dual core today, could be quad core tomorrow), 2 RAM slots, 2 PCI slots, 1 optical drive, and 2 hard drives. That's a lot of extra volume just for 1 CPU, 6 RAM, and 2 PCI.

Exactly what I said, it is all fans. Heck you take out the 2 fans infront of the G5's you can add another 5 harddrives.

Anywho, how long was the Lamp iMac's form factor around? Wasn't it the shortest lived design for an iMac?

Salty · Mar 30, 2006, 07:30 PM

I could see them shrinking the height a bit so that it was just a bit bigger than your average media centre PC. I think Apple will keep the handles. I imagine they'll use the extra room for better cooling, lots of space for RAM, at least 4 HDs (I should hope at least!) and probably the option of more than one optical drive.
Apple is going to have to keep the design pretty big if they hope to be able to keep charging the premium they do on the towers especially. The Mac Pro is going to need to have the option of multiple graphics cards, many internal drives, loads of RAM, and performance up the wazoo! The fact is that unless they go with Xeon based towers, they're not going to be able to continue charging the same premium they have in the past.

greenamp · Mar 30, 2006, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Dude I know that. But 4 of them PLUS liquid cooling are just for the G5 chips. The heat-sync is 10 pounds. Hopefully the Intel chips will not be as hot and judging again by the dev kits they aren't.

On a side note nobody better bitch about silver if Dell has SOLD OUT of this $9000 PC in one week...

What I'm saying is that the G5 cpu alone is not why the computer has so many fans. You're suggesting they need all those fans because the G5 is such a beast, and that's not really the whole story.

The reason for all the fans and the huge heatsink is so that the G5, which yes is a beast, can be properly cooled quietly. They could have just as easily used half as many fans running way louder to get the job done, but that's not why people drop +3k on a PowerMac.

Power consumption is not an issue with a PowerMac. Whatever Intel chip they use in the new ones will be the biggest baddest thing they think Intel has to offer, which will still most likely run as hot as a G5.

Salty · Mar 30, 2006, 07:31 PM

That's one ugly Dull...

::maroma:: · Mar 30, 2006, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

That's one ugly Dull...

Dude its got a friggin skull hidden in the flames! How much cooler can you get??

But I digress, if they've sold out of that thing then they must've hit a nerve with some demographic. My guess is the 10 year old and under crowd.

The Godfather · Mar 30, 2006, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The heat-sync is 10 pounds.

Heat S-I-N-K

I never think of the PowerMacs (or MacTower Pro), since I don't see myself ever buying one. I will be surprised if they get rid of the heatsinks and don't add the long desired features: 2nd optical drive, flash card reader, front USB, Firewire and audio.

Dark Helmet · Mar 30, 2006, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

But I digress, if they've sold out of that thing then they must've hit a nerve with some demographic. My guess is the 10 year old and under crowd.

IT STARTS AT FRIGGIN' $9000!

What kind of 10 year olds do you know?!

It is more like dateless 30 something hard core gamers they've hit the mark with.

Doofy · Mar 30, 2006, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Um ya black, every PC manufacture on the planet hasn't thought of that one.

Um ya silver, every PC manufacture on the planet hasn't thought of that one

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Since you don't live in a "loft" where homosexuals and Metro's live would you be happier with an oak wood-grain or plaid for you hardcore Heterosexuals?

I'd prefer a nice dark mahogany grain with gold highlights, actually.

I'm not sure why I'd want a "plaid" though. I have a nice duvet.

Doofy · Mar 30, 2006, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

On a side note nobody better bitch about silver if Dell has SOLD OUT of this $9000 PC in one week...

And why have they sold out of it in one week? Because it's not

silver, that's why.

Not everyone is a metrosexual fashion zombie who lives in a "black leather and chrome" loft or a sad geek who's converted their mom's basement into the Buck Rogers set.

Lateralus · Mar 30, 2006, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by greenamp

What I'm saying is that the G5 cpu alone is not why the computer has so many fans. You're suggesting they need all those fans because the G5 is such a beast, and that's not really the whole story.

The reason for all the fans and the huge heatsink is so that the G5, which yes is a beast, can be properly cooled quietly. They could have just as easily used half as many fans running way louder to get the job done, but that's not why people drop +3k on a PowerMac.

Power consumption is not an issue with a PowerMac. Whatever Intel chip they use in the new ones will be the biggest baddest thing they think Intel has to offer, which will still most likely run as hot as a G5.

I've made the same point to him before but he doesn't care to listen.

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Mar 30, 2006, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Um ya silver, every PC manufacture on the planet hasn't thought of that one

Personally I have never seen an all aluminum computer from anyone else. If you know of one let me know.

Every PC has come in every colour, would you like Apple to invent a new colour for you?

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Mar 30, 2006, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

And why have they sold out of it in one week? Because it's not

silver, that's why.

You're saying people bought it because of the flaming skill pattern... and for $9000 no less?

production_coordinator · Mar 30, 2006, 09:40 PM

A few things:

I wish they would break up the towers into a pro line and a more consumer line. Transition the towers as they are... and offer a lower end, somewhat smaller tower as well. Similar to the iMac, but able to upgrade the video card, add a PCI device or two, and space for 2-3 hard drives.

Also, offer a hot swappable configuration on the higher end system.

I would also like it if Apple sold an ATX motherboard/CPU configuration. I know, I know...

Stogieman · Mar 30, 2006, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Brings new meaning to the phrase, "To hell with Dell."

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Mar 30, 2006, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

A few things:

I wish they would break up the towers into a pro line and a more consumer line.

They tried that, it was called the cube.

With pro machines it is all or nothing.

volcano · Mar 31, 2006, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Um ya black, every PC manufacture on the planet hasn't thought of that one.

Since you don't live in a "loft" where homosexuals and Metro's live would you be happier with an oak wood-grain or plaid for you hardcore Heterosexuals?

Personally, I like the Aluminum. It looks professional, sleek, and clean. But then again, I do consider myself metrosexual, so what do I know?

Perhaps he'd prefer a tower decked out Brady style - avocado green and antique orange accents surrounded by wood paneling. Yes!

Super Mario · 04:24 PM

The Mac Tower:

10% smaller and lighter than the G5s
Smaller heatsinks
Come in Duo and Quad models
Dual 16X PCI Express lanes for SLI
The Apple logo will be a reflective mirror badge
The cheese grater is gone
There are two more USB ports

version · Mar 31, 2006, 07:11 AM

I love the PM G5 design, looks great and is so quiet. Still, I'm not adverse to a change.

Dark Helmet · Mar 31, 2006, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by version

I love the PM G5 design, looks great and is so quiet. Still, I'm not adverse to a change.

Same here. I have the rev A dual at home and it is pretty quite except for the chirp. I just got the current gen dual at work and it is as quite as my ibook. Simply amazing.

CharlesS · Mar 31, 2006, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

They tried that, it was called the cube.

With pro machines it is all or nothing.

Well, just because the Cube failed doesn't mean that a consumer tower isn't viable. They'd probably be surprised by the results if they tried some radical new ideas that the Cube didn't, such as, oh, not costing more than the pro tower.

Dakar · Mar 31, 2006, 11:48 AM

Personally, I hope they do, if only because the cases look like old bombs from 80s movies and they weigh a ton. Otherwise I like the aluminum look.

Originally Posted by CharlesS

They'd probably be surprised by the results if they tried some radical new ideas that the Cube didn't, such as, oh, not costing more than the pro tower.

Yeah, but this is Apple.

olePigeon · Mar 31, 2006, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

On a side note nobody better bitch about silver if Dell has SOLD OUT of this $9000 PC in one week...

And two weeks later they'll get them all back with broken DVD drives, bad power supplies, and dead inverter boards.

production_coordinator · Mar 31, 2006, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

They tried that, it was called the cube.

With pro machines it is all or nothing.

The cube was FAR from a pro machine. No upgradability, no space for a 2nd (or 3rd HD), no PCI (which was still important at the time).

I'm thinking something more like the contrast between these two systems:

and

Obviously with Apple's styling... Think MacTower mini (supports dual displays, and you can add HDs and maybe space for one or two PCI cards. Some of us still don't like the mini, but don't need the power of the tower.

I don't like having my computer tied to the monitor.

Dark Helmet · Mar 31, 2006, 12:50 PM

So what would this "consumer Pro" have exactly? I mean take out the PCI slots and I don't think you save that much money or space. Right now the only thing you can add to the G5 Towers is PCI slots, RAM and ONE extra hard drive.

That is pretty much the cube again.

production_coordinator · Mar 31, 2006, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Well, just because the Cube failed doesn't mean that a consumer tower isn't viable. They'd probably be surprised by the results if they tried some radical new ideas that the Cube didn't, such as, oh, not costing more than the pro tower.

You should have added "not costing more and not being as fast than a pro tower..."

production_coordinator · Mar 31, 2006, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

So what would this "consumer Pro" have exactly? I mean take out the PCI slots and I don't think you save that much money or space. Right now the only thing you can add to the G5 Towers is PCI slots, RAM and ONE extra hard drive.

That is pretty much the cube again.

How it would be DIFFERENT that the cube:

Price: $1099 to $1399 (no keyboard or mouse)
CPU: Between the Mac mini and the PowerMac (this shouldn't be a problem with Intel's range)
Expandable: Space for 2nd or 3rd HD
Expandable: Space for 1 or 2 PCI cards (with everything going to USB2, I need 4+ powered USB ports, and I don't want to buy a hub)
Monitor: Support for dual screens (no hack required).
Monitor: Have the graphic card upgradable.

Perhaps I'm the only one scratching my heads when it comes time to upgrade. I have a nice 20" Apple LCD... my two options are... a Mac mini ($799 for the hither end) or a PowerMac ($1999 at the low end).

Dark Helmet · Mar 31, 2006, 01:22 PM

production_coordinator I think you are getting in to niche. Mac's are already a niche and they don't need a niche within a niche. Again, the cube was one. Heck I own a cube a love it, if Apple came out with a new one I would prob get it.

Damn I said niche too many times.

CharlesS · Mar 31, 2006, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

You should have added "not costing more and not being as fast than a pro tower..."

Not being as fast is not a problem. The mini-tower Mac wouldn't have to be a quad-core beast like the Power Macs are. As long as they cost less than the quad-core beast, instead of more, it would be fine.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Mac's are already a niche

Mac's what are already a niche?

Dark Helmet · Mar 31, 2006, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Not being as fast is not a problem. The mini-tower Mac wouldn't have to be a quad-core beast like the Power Macs are. As long as they cost less than the quad-core beast, instead of more, it would be fine.

Mac's what are already a niche?

A Mac is a Niche of the computer market, you don't want to create a niche within the niche which is what the cube was.

Super Mario · 04:24 PM

It would be quite cool to have a Tower Mac and Tower Mac Pro range. The problemo is the desktop Macs are always getting cheaper so a prosumer tower might hurt iMac sales.

macaddict0001 · Apr 4, 2006, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Problem is, Apple's current pro case designers seem to think that everyone lives in an NYC loft. Folks don't. Silver-coloured items are too cold and industrial and thus don't belong in any home other than the aforementioned loft.

If Apple were to offer a wider choice of case designs (i.e. something in black) their market share would go up. Simple as that.
Women have a "little black dress" not a "little silver dress". Think about that.

The way I see it is that it is either silver or plastic, plastic is not the kind of thing you want in a pro line.

Todd Madson · Apr 4, 2006, 04:18 PM

That Dell reminds me of airbrushed solidbody guitars from the 1980s.

DigitalEl · Apr 4, 2006, 06:35 PM

I'd prefer a nice dark mahogany grain with gold highlights, actually.

As long as we're rockin' it retard style, what about medical beige? Think Band-Aid meets hearing aid!?

xe0 · Apr 4, 2006, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by DigitalEl

As long as we're rockin' it retard style, what about medical beige? Think Band-Aid meets hearing aid!?

lol

production_coordinator · Apr 4, 2006, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

A Mac is a Niche of the computer market, you don't want to create a niche within the niche which is what the cube was.

The cube failed for two reasons:
- Price
- Price

EVERYONE at the time knew... that for $100 more, you could get a faster computer (so benchmarks said), that could hold more RAM, had audio in, PCI slots (still important in 2000), faster network card, and a questionable expansion future.

Most people said "cool" and then laughed at the price.

WHAT I WAS SUGGESTING, was a less expensive CPU, these systems should have a clear processor difference over the pro towers. They also don't need to have as many RAM slots, comes standard with a lower quality video card, etc. They could even overlap the towers a bit... just to give us a little choice.

As some have noted, they don't like the current size of the towers.