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Dark Helmet · Apr 3, 2006, 02:27 PM

Honestly, even IF some book said 100% that homosexuality is a sin do we have to follow it? It is worth being that type of person?

BlueSky · Apr 3, 2006, 02:28 PM

Throw away your books.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 02:30 PM

Are you trying to set yourself up for a "Eh, same difference" joke?

RAILhead · Apr 3, 2006, 02:33 PM

Okay, enough of this. I feel it necessary to step-in and say what so many of us are really thinking:

Railroader · Apr 3, 2006, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Okay, enough of this. I feel it necessary to step-in and say what so many of us are really thinking:

2nded, 3rded, and 4thed.

Oh, and if you read Salty's blog (I know, I know, it was a weak moment) then you'd realize they didn't kick him out of the Church or didn't even ask him not to come back. They simply removed him from a leadership position. He didn't fit the criteria that they had set for that position and he was removed from that position.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 03:12 PM

Did you just bump your GIF?

Salty · Apr 3, 2006, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

2nded, 3rded, and 4thed.

Oh, and if you read Salty's blog (I know, I know, it was a weak moment) then you'd realize they didn't kick him out of the Church or didn't even ask him not to come back. They simply removed him from a leadership position. He didn't fit the criteria that they had set for that position and he was removed from that position.

Read the recent entries. They did kick me out and told me if I come back on a sunday I'd be asked to leave. The pastors have also from what I've seen begun informing key people in the church of what happened in their own words, which happens to include supporting untrue stories about what actually happened. They're flat out lying and saying that they didn't even suggest that I was a real risk to the kids (which is a bold face lie considering that was the final straw).

I have to wonder if anyone on the board has read any of the poetry I've posted. Some of it's dang good haha...

Millennium · Apr 3, 2006, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Honestly, even IF some book said 100% that homosexuality is a sin do we have to follow it? It is worth being that type of person?

What "type of person"? A person who believes that certain actions are or are not good? I fail to see what's wrong with being that type of person.

Millennium · Apr 3, 2006, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

This is all very strange to me. If he really is gay (which I'm not sure at all if I believe), why would he subscribe to a faith that most likely will conflict with his natural instinct?

Because not everyone believes that all instincts -natural, learned, conditioned, or otherwise- are inherently good.

Railroader · Apr 3, 2006, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Read the recent entries. They did kick me out and told me if I come back on a sunday I'd be asked to leave. The pastors have also from what I've seen begun informing key people in the church of what happened in their own words, which happens to include supporting untrue stories about what actually happened. They're flat out lying and saying that they didn't even suggest that I was a real risk to the kids (which is a bold face lie considering that was the final straw).

OK, let me clarify then. I wasn't entirely clear.

They aren't kicking you out for being gay.

Your current actions have led them to ask you to leave which I feel they are entirely justified in doing so.

Originally Posted by Salty

I have to wonder if anyone on the board has read any of the poetry I've posted. Some of it's dang good haha...

I have. No, it's not.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Because not everyone believes that all instincts -natural, learned, conditioned, or otherwise- are inherently good.

That's true. Some people have an inclination toward pedophilia, some toward murder, some toward self-destruction. The mind is a weird thing, and doesn't always lead us in a good direction. If you independently come to the conclusion that the Bible is incorrect, that's one thing, but you shouldn't disbelieve just because you don't like the idea that you do things wrong.

Salty · Apr 3, 2006, 03:55 PM

Ouch. I dono I rather liked Progression.

Anyway, fact is that they decided to make it blatantly obvious to everyone that I was gay (there's only a few reasons people get kicked out of ministry, and I imagine a large number of people had their suspicions already). The fact is that they simply didn't like that I didn't leave it at that. Nor did I stay quiet. I was after that point entirely upfront with anyone who asked. And that was when they started to have a problem with it. Because I wasn't sorry for being gay. I didn't feel as if this was something awful that I had to go perpetually pray over till I was straight. Did that undermine them? Of course. Because they'd done something horrendously wrong. It is not my job to defend the honour off dishonourable people.

Dark Helmet · Apr 3, 2006, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

They're flat out lying

What good Christians.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 03:59 PM

You were one of those dishonorable people until quite recently. Surely you can understand where they are coming from.

Railroader · Apr 3, 2006, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Ouch. I dono I rather liked Progression.

Anyway, fact is that they decided to make it blatantly obvious to everyone that I was gay (there's only a few reasons people get kicked out of ministry, and I imagine a large number of people had their suspicions already). The fact is that they simply didn't like that I didn't leave it at that. Nor did I stay quiet. I was after that point entirely upfront with anyone who asked. And that was when they started to have a problem with it. Because I wasn't sorry for being gay. I didn't feel as if this was something awful that I had to go perpetually pray over till I was straight. Did that undermine them? Of course. Because they'd done something horrendously wrong. It is not my job to defend the honour off dishonourable people.

So, tell us honestly why you were asked to leave your Church and not return until you were repentant.

Railroader · Apr 3, 2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

What good Christians.

He has not given good evidence that they were lying. Read Salty's blog. If true, then Salty's actions are entirely unChristian.

Dark Helmet · Apr 3, 2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You were one of those dishonorable people until quite recently. Surely you can understand where they are coming from.

Exactly, Christians are just as bad as anyone else... they just think they are "Saved" or make excuses for their actions.

Live a life of sin... repent of your deathbed.

Doofy · Apr 3, 2006, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Read Salty's blog.

OK...

Originally Posted by Salty in his Blog

My long term ministry at a church I loved has come to an end all because of secular reasoning which has permeated the church.

Wow. Just wow. I don't even know where to start with that statement.

Railroader · Apr 3, 2006, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Exactly, Christians are just as bad as anyone else... they just think they are "Saved" or make excuses for their actions.

Live a life of sin... repent of your deathbed.

Christianity is not a fire insurance policy.

I should change my sig back to "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.".

Railroader · Apr 3, 2006, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Wow. Just wow. I don't even know where to start with that statement.

I have taken some screen grabs of certain sections just incase he decides to edit/change anything.

Salty is not sinless in this escapade he is sharing with us. Far from it.

Kevin · Apr 3, 2006, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That was exactly my argument with my Ex. He said it is because he is "spiritual and believes in God". I said fine, then can't you choose some other religion that doesn't support taking away your human rights?

Drove me nuts.

Taking away your human rights. Given by whom?

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Honestly, even IF some book said 100% that homosexuality is a sin do we have to follow it? It is worth being that type of person?

What type of person? A homosexual?

(I know what you are trying to say, just showing how hateful it sounds.)

Originally Posted by Millennium

What "type of person"? A person who believes that certain actions are or are not good? I fail to see what's wrong with being that type of person.

Exactly. SWG also doesn't see how he is being just as bad by acting the way he is.

He should lead by example.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Exactly, Christians are just as bad as anyone else...

I have been saying this in here for years. Glad you've started paying attention.

they just think they are "Saved"

No, I am pretty darn sure of it.

Live a life of sin... repent of your deathbed.

Hyperbole.

I DO find it amusing that a thread about Salty coming out has turned into yet another Christian bashing thread.

Some people can't control their hatred I guess.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I DO find it amusing that a thread about Salty coming out has turned into yet another Christian bashing thread.

Some people can't control their hatred I guess.

You can't really blame SWG for this one. It's right along the line of conversation Salty started.

Kevin · Apr 3, 2006, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You can't really blame SWG for this one. It's right along the line of conversation Salty started.

Had salty not said anything, what do you think this thread would be about now?

FeLiZeCaT · Apr 3, 2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by gerbnl

dear salty...

i just wanted to

you...

also, two (somewhat) recent movies are relevant to you interests (well, thats what i think/hope whatever):

This Divided State (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0444698)

C.r.a.z.y. (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0401085)

the latter probably will be more obvious than the former...

C.R.A.Z.Y. is apparently quite an excellent movie.

I think it is time for me to rent it.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Had salty not said anything, what do you think this thread would be about now?

…nothing at all?

boots · Apr 3, 2006, 07:13 PM

I had a jelly donut this morning. It was tasty.

Wait, what was this thread about?

Dark Helmet · Apr 3, 2006, 07:17 PM

My favorite part is everything I have said for the past 4 years about the Christian churches being intolerant and Superchicken being gay were all confirmed in one little thread

abe · Apr 3, 2006, 07:21 PM

Why do some of you condemn homosexuality as a sin yet...

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

• SODOMY IS AN ABOMINABLE SIN, WORTHY OF DEATH.

◦ "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13. "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32.
◦ See also Leviticus 18:22, Genesis 19, Romans 1:18-32, I Corinthians 6:9-11, I Timothy 1:10, and Jude 7.

...you feel completely justified in eating shrimp???

God Hates Shrimp

Shrimp, crab, lobster, clams, mussels, all these are an abomination before the Lord, just as gays are an abomination. Why stop at protesting gay marriage? Bring all of God's law unto the heathens and the sodomites. We call upon all Christians to join the crusade against Long John Silver's and Red Lobster. Yea, even Popeye's shall be cleansed. The name of Bubba shall be anathema. We must stop the unbelievers from destroying the sanctity of our restaurants.

Leviticus 11:9-12 says:
9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Deuteronomy 14:9-10 says:
9 These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10 And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

boots · Apr 3, 2006, 07:22 PM

It's the rock badger prohibition that turns me off. pffffffft!

Dark Helmet · Apr 3, 2006, 07:25 PM

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

Ha ha, points out what hypocrites they are nicely

Why is God creating so many tasty abominations?

Is everyone who eats an Apple also a sinner?

FeLiZeCaT · Apr 3, 2006, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

…nothing at all?

Been sometime since I laughed so much.

Thank you for that!

Salty · Apr 3, 2006, 08:00 PM

At the same time the food laws were later abolished for the church as a result of God directly saying it was OK. Nobody yet has received a vision of a sheet coming down from heaven with two guys banging each-other. Though... I don't know if anyone would have admitted it if they had...

Kevin · Apr 3, 2006, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

My favorite part is everything I have said for the past 4 years about the Christian churches being intolerant and Superchicken being gay were all confirmed in one little thread

And all homosexuals are pedophiles.

turtle777 · Apr 3, 2006, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Is everyone who eats an Apple also a sinner?

Where in the Bible does it say so ?

-t

Salty · Apr 3, 2006, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

My favorite part is everything I have said for the past 4 years about the Christian churches being intolerant and Superchicken being gay were all confirmed in one little thread

7 pages is hardly little

turtle777 · Apr 3, 2006, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

My favorite part is everything I have said for the past 4 years about the Christian churches being intolerant and Superchicken being gay were all confirmed in one little thread

How about NOT making Salty Chicken the prototype of a biblical Christian.
He probably never was, and surely as it looks like right now, never will be.

-t

Kevin · Apr 3, 2006, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

…nothing at all?

History of this forum tells a different story.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 08:22 PM

Somehow I imagine Paul may have had that vision. Dude certainly seemed sexually insecure enough.

Anyway, the entire point of Paul's ministry was that the Law of Moses — which he viewed basically as training wheels — had been abolished. For the most part, Christians don't believe in ritual uncleanness at all; don't circumcise; don't observe the Sabbath, Yom Kippur or Passover; don't consider fabrics or farming to be religious issues; and don't tithe. The sexual laws and most of the Ten Commandments are pretty much the only part that have been carried over.

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Apr 3, 2006, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Where in the Bible does it say so ?

-t

One person finds a passage from the bible that one thing, another finds another passage that contradicts it. I am not getting into that.

turtle777 · Apr 3, 2006, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

One person finds a passage from the bible that one thing, another finds another passage that contradicts it. I am not getting into that.

No, that's not true. It's just a myth that it was an apple. The Bible never talks about an apple.

-t

Kevin · Apr 3, 2006, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

One person finds a passage from the bible that one thing, another finds another passage that contradicts it. I am not getting into that.

No.

And you aren't getting into that, because you CAN'T.

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Apr 3, 2006, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

No, that's not true. It's just a myth that it was an apple. The Bible never talks about an apple.

-t

Here is news for ya. the whole damn thing is a myth. Apple or no Apple.

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Apr 3, 2006, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

7 pages is hardly little

Fine, but my point was proven by the first post.

Kevin · Apr 3, 2006, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Here is news for ya. the whole damn thing is a myth. Apple or no Apple.

In your opinion you mean. You have FAITH it's a myth.

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Fine, but my point was proven by the first post.

I really don't think you had one.

abe · Apr 3, 2006, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

One person finds a passage from the bible that one thing, another finds another passage that contradicts it. I am not getting into that.

I've been waiting for these contradictions to be mentioned here.

I wonder if these contradictions were SUPPOSED to be there. It would allow everyone to follow that part which makes sense to them AND also give them the greatest of truths, to which all should pay heed.

In fact, the contradictions might be instructive in and of themselves.

If forced to try to make sense of and choose between condemning a gay person and loving one's neighbor as thyself, the person who chooses hate has his own personal little lesson wrapped up and presented to him right there.

I think this is (at least) one of the things the Bible has in common with the Koran, btw.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

In your opinion you mean. You have FAITH it's a myth.

You mean you have FAITH that he has faith it's a myth, don't you?

Scandalous Ion Cannon · Apr 3, 2006, 09:03 PM

If anyone would show hard evidence of Adam and Eve go nuts. Until then it is no more true than any other fable. Heck we might as well believe Jack and the Beanstalk.

Kevin · Apr 3, 2006, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You mean you have FAITH that he has faith it's a myth, don't you?

No, if you believe something isn't true, and there is no proof to back up said belief, said belief is based on faith.

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

If anyone would show hard evidence of Adam and Eve go nuts. Until then it is no more true than any other fable. Heck we might as well believe Jack and the Beanstalk.

Nice dodge.

Chuckit · Apr 3, 2006, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, if you believe something isn't true, and there is no proof to back up said belief, said belief is based on faith.

So when somebody denies something based (apparently) on lack of positive evidence, that's faith — but when you tell us the internal state of a man's mind, that's not faith?

Kevin · Apr 3, 2006, 09:18 PM

Faith is just a belief in something that is not proven.

If you have a belief that is not proven, you have faith.

It's that simple.