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Doc HM · Oct 20, 2009, 03:40 PM

What, no comments on the new polycarb MacBook yet. Looks like a good update to the previous base model and nicely differentiated from the pro line now. A top notch student laptop. Apple will sell bazillions in the run up to Christmas.

gooser · Oct 20, 2009, 04:08 PM

i won't be getting one. don't like it and like the older one better.

amazing · Oct 20, 2009, 04:27 PM

At work, we just bought 2 HD cams that use firewire, not USB.

Oops, well, that's the way the Apple Roulette goes...

Doc HM · Oct 20, 2009, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

At work, we just bought 2 HD cams that use firewire, not USB.

Oops, well, that's the way the Apple Roulette goes...

Firewire was never going to stay on the Macbook. It's now a Pro line delineator. Not saying this is right, just that access to FW via the old model was a hangover.

CharlesS · Oct 20, 2009, 04:58 PM

So why does the Mac mini have a FW800 port then?

The Final Dakar · Oct 20, 2009, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

So why does the Mac mini have a FW800 port then?

Check mate.

pra9ab0y · Oct 20, 2009, 05:05 PM

Because its a desktop and hadn't been updated for a while! But now Apple have caught on to the fact people are using them as servers might explain a few things!

lpkmckenna · Oct 21, 2009, 12:33 AM

The all-rubber bottom is unexpected. It's like the iClamBook redux.

They won't lose any sales without FW800.

iampivot · Oct 21, 2009, 01:38 AM

Wonder how the screen compares to the 13" mbp?

Simon · Oct 21, 2009, 09:57 AM

I'm not sure that rubber bottom is a good idea. I move my MBP a lot on the table and the feet have just enough grip to allow that. But if the entire bottom is rubber I guess you have to lift the MB to move it.

TETENAL · Oct 21, 2009, 10:59 AM

I don't like the lack of an IR sensor. That cannot reasonably be considered to be a "pro" feature.

The Final Dakar · Oct 21, 2009, 11:02 AM

Wait. The Apple Remote no longer works with it?

CharlesS · Oct 21, 2009, 01:14 PM

Sheesh, this model makes even less sense than the old whitebook. Who in their right mind would buy this instead of spending a little more and getting the vastly superior MBP?

(although, I guess that’s the point)

SpaceMonkey · Oct 21, 2009, 01:20 PM

The rubber base makes me think it would be marketed for parents buying a laptop for their tween.

It's kind of odd that the base MBP still only has a 160 GB hard drive.

Eug · Oct 21, 2009, 01:21 PM

Yup. I bought a previous white MacBook because it had MORE features (like Firewire) than the unibody MacBook, yet cost hundreds less. I only got the unibody once it got Firewire and backlit keyboard for the entry level model (and then they called it Pro).

This release further differentiates the consumer vs. Pro lines.

P.S. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the whiteBook not to have IR or Firewire, from a marketing and sales point of view, and I say this as someone who used both IR and Firewire with my whiteBook.

snackhound · Oct 21, 2009, 02:33 PM

Howe can you call it a consumer machine if no IR for front row? No Firewire, good luck with imovie, has any tried to use imovie with only a USB connection between your Mac and camcorder.

What's the point in a single jack for both audio in and audio out? I was glad to see the audio in jack when the original MacBooks were released, now it has mutated both jacks in to one.

Brien · Oct 21, 2009, 03:42 PM

IMO, this is a stop-gap release until they can bring the price down on the 13" MBP and/or get that tablet out into the public's hands. I think the only reason they spent money on R&D redesigning it was to fix the cracking issues. Plus, the lack of FW or IR, along with it sharing a lot of components with the 13" MBP probably boosted margins a bit.

They'll probably axe it if they ever redesign the Pro/Air to go 16:9.

Eug · Oct 21, 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by snackhound

Howe can you call it a consumer machine if no IR for front row?

I don't think I know anyone who uses their MacBook for Front Row. Then again, I don't know anyone who uses Front Row at all. And really, how many entry level consumer laptops out there are used as media centre servers?

However, if you need IR, the 13" MacBook Pro is available for not too much more.

No Firewire, good luck with imovie, has any tried to use imovie with only a USB connection between your Mac and camcorder.

If you need Firewire, the 13" MacBook Pro is available for not too much more.

What's the point in a single jack for both audio in and audio out? I was glad to see the audio in jack when the original MacBooks were released, now it has mutated both jacks in to one.

Very few people actually use the audio in jack. So this makes sense. However, I would expect to have it on the MacBook Pro. Unfortunately, the 13" MacBook Pro doesn't have a separate audio input either. The 15" MBP does, but I don't like 15" laptops. Too big.

TETENAL · Oct 21, 2009, 04:03 PM

FrontRow and iTunes music/movies is definitely a consumer feature. For that the remote is great, even on a MacBook. I wouldn't know what a "pro" would want to use a remote for. Particularly considering that Apple blocks the remote for third party applications like PowerPoint in Snow Leopard.

Taking out the IR receiver is a move I really don't like.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 21, 2009, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Sheesh, this model makes even less sense than the old whitebook. Who in their right mind would buy this instead of spending a little more and getting the vastly superior MBP?

(although, I guess that’s the point)

FW + backlit keyboard + somewhat better (probably) screen != "vastly superior"

especially when it's rubber and plastic against aluminum.

Which parent in their right mind is gonna buy their kid the MacBook Pro over the MacBook for school/college?

Spheric Harlot · Oct 21, 2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

FrontRow and iTunes music/movies is definitely a consumer feature. For that the remote is great, even on a MacBook. I wouldn't know what a "pro" would want to use a remote for. Particularly considering that Apple blocks the remote for third party applications like PowerPoint in Snow Leopard.

Taking out the IR receiver is a move I really don't like.

I don't think many people ever use Front Row on a laptop.

I know have only did like twice in the first few weeks of owning my MacBook.

If you're holding enough presentations to seriously need freedom to move around and away from your book and needing to remote control it, you're probably on a MacBook Pro or Air anyway, and on Keynote, if you have the slightest bit of sense.

YMMV, obviously, but I don't see this as an issue at all for the vast majority of customers.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 21, 2009, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by snackhound

No Firewire, good luck with imovie, has any tried to use imovie with only a USB connection between your Mac and camcorder.

Um yes, and so far, I've only ever encountered a single USB camcorder (virtually ALL consumer camcorders connect via USB these days, you know) - my in-laws' Panasonic VDR-D160 - that refused to work. Though with the latest update, the D100 and the D200 work, so this may have changed just now.

Originally Posted by snackhound

What's the point in a single jack for both audio in and audio out? I was glad to see the audio in jack when the original MacBooks were released, now it has mutated both jacks in to one.

Most people only ever need the audio in for Skype headsets, and it was utter confusion as to why the audio input would never work (because it wasn't a microphone-level input), and why they needed USB headsets instead.

Now, it works with the standard headset that comes with every iPod and is available from a dozen other manufacturers.

Eug · Oct 21, 2009, 05:28 PM

Teardown

CharlesS · Oct 21, 2009, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

I don't think many people ever use Front Row on a laptop.

In a college dorm (what this machine is supposed to be aimed at), there’s not much space, and a laptop is a great fit as a media center. Why on earth they left off the IR sensor, which can’t possibly cost them that much, is a mystery to me.

Chinasaur · Oct 21, 2009, 09:01 PM

Some of us don't use the IR even on our 24" iMac's... on both iMac's it's a "meh" thing..I never use it except to show it to non-Mac owning lifeforms.

The box makes great sense if you're not looking at it with the jaded eye of a long-term Macintosh user. I had an SE30 and I'd buy this thing..if I hadn't already bottom-fed on the Refurb'd store $750 MacBook deal today

Most people don't care about those features gents...you do..but then you're denizens of MacNN and that put's you in a small % of the population.

freudling · Oct 22, 2009, 05:06 AM

I never use the Remote, because I can control my Macs with my iPhone with an application called Rowmote Pro. One of the best apps ever, in my opinion. Turns the iPhone into an Apple Remote or a full on multi-touch trackpad.

But, this assumes most people in dorms, etc... in the target market, will have something like the iPhone to control and conquer with front row and the like...

Eug · Oct 22, 2009, 09:38 AM

Any Bluetooth phone can be configured to control a MacBook.

Not that anyone bothers though. Similarly, the IR thing is more of a theoretical advantage than anything else,useful to only a very small portion of MacBook buyers. I betcha it seems just about as much usage as Firewire... and for those who actually want/need it, they can get a unibody aluminum 13" MacBook Pro.

When the 13" MBP didn't exist, the arguments supporting Firewire and IR in the MacBook made sense. Not anymore. In fact, I specifically never bought the unibody MacBook (non-Pro) because it did not have Firewire, and went with the whiteBook. In today's market though, we've got two clear lines, with two similarly sized models, but one with a few more features for not much more dollars. Makes perfect sense to me.

Simon · Oct 22, 2009, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Brien

IMO, this is a stop-gap release until they can bring the price down on the 13" MBP and/or get that tablet out into the public's hands.

^^^ This.

freudling · Oct 22, 2009, 01:21 PM

I guess Apple just has to put a gap between the Pro line and the entry level line. Although Firewire on the MacBook still does not make it like the 13" Pro. Marketing...

At any rate, I really like the new MacBooks. They look awesome. Strong, beautiful entry level Apples. Good for kids, teens, even older people. That polycarbonate casing is durable and feels excellent in all temperatures. And for the education market they are perfect.

amazing · Oct 22, 2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Which parent in their right mind is gonna buy their kid the MacBook Pro over the MacBook for school/college?

Well, I'd say a parent who knows he's going to have to buy another laptop for the college student in a few years time, perhaps for graduation, perhaps earlier. That $200 savings will go a long way towards a second laptop.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 22, 2009, 05:00 PM

I *think* you read me backwards.

AlbanianGenome · Oct 22, 2009, 09:46 PM

I think the new Macbook is getting a lot of press through these forums thus far. I however just jumped at the opportunity to buy one the other day. I can say that so far this machine is exactly what I wanted and more. I have always preferred the white look(personal preference) but what kept me away was a huge difference in between the macbook and the pro line. I previously owned a 15" Macbook Pro, and also took a look at the newer models before purchasing. The internal components are almost identical as the intro macbook pro. So I don't get backlit keypad(had it numerous times before and never used it) Lacks a firewire port(I will have to get a new cable to connect to my hd, only bummer) Besides that I do not need firewire ports as usb 2.0 is fast enough for most applications. I miss out on a sansdisk slot(rolls eyes). The only thing that is justifiable to me is the aluminum build, but not worth $200 more to me. All and all if you dont need those minor things, you will be a 250 gig hd rather than the 160gig, and pay $200 less for a machine with amazing internal specs and a built in 7 hour battery. That is the key right there, if it did not have the new battery built in it would be a no brainer to get the macbook pro intro model, but as it stands now, not enough to justify the increase in spending. Apple has done a great job in closing the gap to tempt you, but this time I will love on this macbook until the tablet shows itself or there is a significant increase in technology to warrant an increase in spending.

amazing · Oct 22, 2009, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

I *think* you read me backwards.

apologies! yes, i re-read that and was trying to parse the whole thing, so perhaps it's a case of my pre-cognitive preheimers at work?

iampivot · Oct 23, 2009, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by AlbanianGenome

[...] pay $200 less for a machine with amazing internal specs and a built in 7 hour battery. That is the key right there, if it did not have the new battery built in it would be a no brainer to get the macbook pro intro model, but as it stands now, not enough to justify the increase in spending.

Hopefully they'll increase the resolution of the 13" MBP soon. It's the only thing I'm missing on mine.

AlbanianGenome · Oct 23, 2009, 01:51 AM

the only other thing that I just thought about was the non-slip bottom on my new macbook as well. This is going to get dirty if you are not extremely careful, with the possibility of it actually being a nuisance of it being on your lap because of it carrying the dirt and marking your pants/shorts. I wonder if apple or a third party company will come out with a replacement bottom for this new macbook as I bet it would be a hot selling item without a doubt.

freudling · Oct 23, 2009, 04:36 AM

Just another reason to practice cleanliness.

Brien · Oct 23, 2009, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by iampivot

Hopefully they'll increase the resolution of the 13" MBP soon. It's the only thing I'm missing on mine.

Yeah, 1440x900 on the 13" and 1680x1050 on the 15" would be nice. I just hope Apple doesn't wait until it decides to redesign the MBP line to 16:9 to bump up the screen resolution.

EndlessMac · Oct 23, 2009, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Brien

Yeah, 1440x900 on the 13" and 1680x1050 on the 15" would be nice. I just hope Apple doesn't wait until it decides to redesign the MBP line to 16:9 to bump up the screen resolution.

I never understood the desire for super high resolution that some seem to have. I just got my 15" MBP and everything is tiny. It's not bad but considering I used to have my monitor set to 1024x768 things are definitely smaller. I don't think I would like this on a screen as small as 13". Until Apple figures out the scaling issue I don't know if I really want to go any higher in resolution.

With a higher resolution I do get more real estate but I would prefer not having to use a magnifying glass or buy a giant movie theater screen just to see things at a reasonable size.

I think there is a reason why we haven't seen dramatic jumps in resolution on laptops with smaller screens.

So I'm curious as to the benefits of increasing the resolution even further without fixing current issues? This is a genuine question. Are we getting to the point of diminishing returns when it comes to laptop resolutions? I can understand higher resolutions for iMacs because those screens are HUGE but something like a 13" is going to be microscopic.

Eug · Oct 23, 2009, 07:36 PM

I would prefer a slightly lower resolution on my MacBook Pro.

OTOH, I would prefer a much higher resolution if OS X were resolution independent.

iampivot · Oct 25, 2009, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by EndlessMac

I never understood the desire for super high resolution that some seem to have.

It's handy when doing development. An IDE works best when you have ample horisontal space for a wide text editor + file system navigator.

patrix · Oct 25, 2009, 09:22 AM

No IR... Bummer. My macbook (white, 2006) is my only computer, and I use it for everything except basic TV. Rent a DVD? Plug in to the TV, pop the DVD in and control it with remote.

lying down on the bed and listening to music? Control it with remote...

etc..

I guess Apple is telling me "get an Apple TV" or "get a Macbook Pro"...

I just want something that doesn't crack!

Patrix.

EndlessMac · Oct 25, 2009, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by iampivot

It's handy when doing development. An IDE works best when you have ample horisontal space for a wide text editor + file system navigator.

Okay that's understandable but for the majority of the general public I still think drastic bumps in resolution without either making the OS resolution independent or increasing the screen size is going to make the situation more problematic than a benefit.

You are one of the few people who have actually given me a reason for the resolution. If people have valid reasons then that's okay, but what I'm seeing on several forums is that people just want more resolution because they think an upgrade has to have more without thinking if it really is a benefit to them and in some cases it can make things worst. Like the old saying goes, bigger is not always better but it's easier for the marketing department to sell because they tell you get more or something new. That's a concept that anyone can understand but I've noticed not everyone stops to think if they are really benefiting from it.