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Smart Houses
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mindwaves
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Jul 14, 2019, 08:52 PM
 
I do kind of, sort of want a smart house, but only to an extent. I only want the ability to control lights and certain appliances (i.e., air conditioning) and pretty much nothing else.

The lights would be neat because can have them turn on certain times of the day, so no one will see I am not at home. Of course, definitely don't want anything silly like smart light bulbs, only want a smart outlet that is internet connected, so anything I plug in will turn on, upon a press of my iPhone. Turning on the air conditioning (I don't believe in central air, as cooling down an entire house is just plain silly when I am only in one room, not to mention it taking forever and costly) in the living room 15 minutes before I come inside would be nice.

Camera doorbells are nice, but only want one that is not connected to the internet. Paying any kind of subscription service is just silly. Store all data on local devices only. No face recognition stuff either. Sure, I lose some "benefits," but I'm ok with that.

No smart devices like anything from Amazon Alexa, Google Home, or others. Real humans listen to what you are speaking and voice data leaks are becoming common now. Not asking for recommendations here, just commenting about usefulness of a smart house.
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subego
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Jul 14, 2019, 09:47 PM
 
If the doorbell cam is meant for security in any way, local storage is self-defeating.
     
mindwaves  (op)
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Jul 14, 2019, 09:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If the doorbell cam is meant for security in any way, local storage is self-defeating.
Kind of true. The burglar would first have to know it is local storage vs cloud storage and then actually find the storage device, which could be anywhere in your house (which in my house is next to impossible to find). There isn't an actual wire attached from the doorbell to the hard drive. All wirelessly connected.
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subego
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Jul 14, 2019, 10:13 PM
 
For the system to be compromised the burglar needs no tech savvy beyond “that box looks worth stealing”.

Besides, an actually tech savvy burglar would cut my cable and swipe all my drives.
     
reader50
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Jul 15, 2019, 12:39 AM
 
It could take some work to get your living room AC to come on. The typical window unit does not come on after a power failure, which a smart socket simulates. You might need a smart AC with either built-in timer, or internet-enabled. Or download and read the owner manuals in advance, see if a unit can be set to come on after a power failure.

If a window unit can be wired to a remote thermostat, then you'd be good to go. Wire it through a relay, and you plug the relay into your smart socket.
     
subego
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Jul 15, 2019, 01:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
The typical window unit does not come on after a power failure
They don’t?

I figured the ones with knobs are using analog circuitry.
     
reader50
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Jul 15, 2019, 01:57 AM
 
A non-digital one should come back on. Mechanical controls. But ... are those still made? All I see in the stores are digitals with remotes.
     
subego
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Jul 15, 2019, 03:54 AM
 
A Frigidaire one with knobs came up as “Amazon”s Choice” when I searched for “ac window unit”.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jul 15, 2019, 06:58 AM
 
Can't you clone the remote controls to another device? Used to be a few ways of doing that.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Jul 16, 2019, 10:39 AM
 
Then it would need an IR blaster, and those can be pretty sucky.

As luck would have it, the place I just rented is in a semi-sketch neighborhood, and am charging up a pair of Ring doorbells for it. Also setting up a bunch of Hues to have lights switch on and off when I’m not there so it seems inhabited, which it often won’t be. That’s a super expensive way to pull it off, but I happen to have a bunch lying around.

With the AC, I’m just leaving it on.
     
subego
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Jul 16, 2019, 06:46 PM
 
Some asshole is trying to break in!

     
LuciaL
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Jul 18, 2019, 10:15 AM
 
I am looking at xiaomi door lock. Folks say it's really safe and kind of unlockable. Any thought, experience to share?
Thanks so much!
     
Thorzdad
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Jul 18, 2019, 12:11 PM
 
A door lock that is unlockable?
When are you not home? I have a truck I need to fill.
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subego
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Jul 20, 2019, 04:09 PM
 
Our first real interloper.



This is the first frame, so Ring gets poor marks for not turning on fast enough.

Looks like whatever tool he’s carrying is in a belt sheath, which makes me think “legit”, but I also know that trick.
( Last edited by subego; Jul 20, 2019 at 06:56 PM. )
     
Laminar
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Jul 22, 2019, 07:54 AM
 
He just needs a hard hat and clipboard.
     
subego
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Jul 22, 2019, 10:44 AM
 
And a high-vis vest.
     
subego
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Jul 22, 2019, 05:59 PM
 
Looks like a false alarm.

Our neighbor...



I set the sensitivity of the back camera to max, so hopefully it’ll kick in faster next time. I figure I’m not going to get false triggers back there like I do with street traffic in front.
     
reader50
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Jul 22, 2019, 06:17 PM
 
You have an ID, but "false alarm" has yet to be confirmed. Be nice to see what he was scoping out. A drink from your garden hose, or checking your camera gear through the back window? Or making use of your trash can.

Brewing tip: always dispose of your used meth gear in someone else's trash can.
     
mindwaves  (op)
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Jul 23, 2019, 08:14 PM
 
Question on Ring doorbells. I always thought that a doorbell camera was a poor choice for a camera because the doorbell is just too low to capture what is needed. Is this what you have experienced?
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subego
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Jul 24, 2019, 12:56 AM
 
No one but my neighbor has activated it for real, so I’m not sure.

I’m going there tomorrow so I’ll use it like a normal person and post a pic.

My feel from playing with it was you are correct in that it’s not ideal, but it’s workable.
     
subego
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Jul 24, 2019, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
You have an ID, but "false alarm" has yet to be confirmed. Be nice to see what he was scoping out. A drink from your garden hose, or checking your camera gear through the back window? Or making use of your trash can.

Brewing tip: always dispose of your used meth gear in someone else's trash can.
Our hose was actually on for some reason.

If only he was using our trash can... week three of trying to get one from the city.
     
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Jul 24, 2019, 10:49 AM
 
Sherlock: The city keeps delivering them, but your neighbor is taking them.
     
subego
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Jul 24, 2019, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Question on Ring doorbells. I always thought that a doorbell camera was a poor choice for a camera because the doorbell is just too low to capture what is needed. Is this what you have experienced?


Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Sherlock: The city keeps delivering them, but your neighbor is taking them.
My doorbell has been on the lookout, though!
     
Laminar
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Jul 25, 2019, 08:13 AM
 
Shady looking dude. I'd call the cops for sure.
     
subego
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Jul 25, 2019, 02:23 PM
 
Well past that. Bought a rifle.
     
Jawbone54
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Aug 1, 2019, 12:52 PM
 
No work belt.

Shoot him.
     
subego
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Aug 7, 2019, 07:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
He just needs a hard hat and clipboard.
Got a guy with a clipboard ringing our bell, so they’re halfway there.
     
mindwaves  (op)
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Aug 7, 2019, 08:58 PM
 
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/29/2...t-partnerships

"According to the notes, Ring lets officers request footage from owners through Ring. While police reportedly need consent from owners, a warrant isn’t required. (Ring said in a statement that any requests from law enforcement must be tied to an active investigation.) The notes say 200 agencies use the system."

1984 is here.
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Thorzdad
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Aug 8, 2019, 08:40 AM
 
Ars Technica provides further details on Ring/LEO partnerships. It's worse than you think.
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Laminar
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Aug 8, 2019, 09:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Ars Technica provides further details on Ring/LEO partnerships. It's worse than you think.
Youch.

MIL just bought a new house, it came with a whole ring setup - three door sensors, doorbell cam, motion light cam, two keypads. I helped get it all set up and thought it was kind of neat. She was able to check and make sure that someone stopped by to let her dog out as promised.

Is Google any better about sharing data with LEO? Or is Apple the only real holdout?
     
subego
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Aug 8, 2019, 11:56 AM
 
What am I missing here?

Ring allows the cops to ask its users for footage.

And Apple will hand over whatever with a warrant.
     
Thorzdad
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Aug 8, 2019, 12:08 PM
 
The point here is, Ring cameras point outward from the user's home. That is, it's watching the comings and goings at your house across the street. There's also the part where LEOs are essentially doing the sales pitches to residents on Amazon's behalf.

Warrants are completely different thing. This is warrantless surveillance on you because your neighbor said it was ok.
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subego
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Aug 8, 2019, 01:11 PM
 
I have quibbles with this phrasing.

The police aren’t surveilling you, they’re surveilling a public way. Which they’ve always been able to do.

There’s no expectation of privacy in public.

I actually did, literally, have the neighborhood cop recommend us Ring by name. Said he got Grams a pair.
     
reader50
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Aug 8, 2019, 02:03 PM
 
The phrasing is reasonable in my opinion. Yes, the cops can drive by and see anything in public. But they usually aren't driving by and watching. And I believe police need warrants to plant cameras for long-term surveillance of a residence.

Unless one of your neighbors across the street allows continuous access. In which case, all homes across from them can be watched by the cops continuously. Sans warrant. If a high enough percentage of people play ball and allow the cops continuous access, we have universal residential surveillance.
     
Laminar
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Aug 8, 2019, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I have quibbles with this phrasing.
I think I'm making a slippery slope argument.

MIL has a second camera over her deck, facing several backyards. Is it reasonable for the police to get that video?

If that camera also looks in one of their windows, can the police get that video to look into their house?

If there's a camera mounted inside the house, it seems like we're only a step away from police taking that footage as well.

And Apple will hand over whatever with a warrant.
Apple refused to unlock the phone of the San Bernardino shooter, even after the FBI got a court order.
     
subego
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Aug 8, 2019, 05:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
But they usually aren't driving by and watching.
Because it’s too resource intensive. That’s the only thing stopping them. There’s no legal barrier.

This is an example of the cost of the resource being lowered, which is inevitable. That they can crowdsource it is only moving up the timetable, not changing the destination.
     
subego
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Aug 8, 2019, 05:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I think I'm making a slippery slope argument.

MIL has a second camera over her deck, facing several backyards. Is it reasonable for the police to get that video?

If that camera also looks in one of their windows, can the police get that video to look into their house?

If there's a camera mounted inside the house, it seems like we're only a step away from police taking that footage as well.



Apple refused to unlock the phone of the San Bernardino shooter, even after the FBI got a court order.
Sorta... they refused to write software to crack it. They didn’t have the password.

I like a good slippery slope argument, though.

My understanding is the slope ends where what’s visible from the outside ends, be that by a wall, a curtain, or a privacy fence.
     
reader50
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Aug 8, 2019, 06:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Because it’s too resource intensive. That’s the only thing stopping them. There’s no legal barrier.

This is an example of the cost of the resource being lowered, which is inevitable. That they can crowdsource it is only moving up the timetable, not changing the destination.
I don't disagree with the trend, but disagree with the destination. IMO we cannot allow the death of privacy. With cops watching everything we do outside 24/7. At present, resource cost prevents them from doing so. If that cost lowers, then we have to prevent it some other way. The proposed destination is unacceptable.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My understanding is the slope ends where what’s visible from the outside ends, be that by a wall, a curtain, or a privacy fence.
As I understand it (IANAL) the inside of a home is a protected space. Cops might observe something in plain view of a window - but they need an independent reason to peer in the window first. Otherwise they're conducting a suspicionless search, which violates the 4th amendment.

I believe this has come up in context of infrared cameras and high-accuracy cell phone tracking. Both can reveal individuals moving around inside their homes, even without windows. Courts are demanding warrants to collect inside-the-home info.
     
subego
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Aug 9, 2019, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
IMO we cannot allow the death of privacy.
I share this opinion, but like most civil liberties issues, there aren’t nearly enough people who care to do anything about it.

Fixing this needs a constitutional amendment. I put the probability of one being ratified near zero.
     
subego
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Aug 9, 2019, 03:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
As I understand it (IANAL) the inside of a home is a protected space. Cops might observe something in plain view of a window - but they need an independent reason to peer in the window first. Otherwise they're conducting a suspicionless search, which violates the 4th amendment.

I believe this has come up in context of infrared cameras and high-accuracy cell phone tracking. Both can reveal individuals moving around inside their homes, even without windows. Courts are demanding warrants to collect inside-the-home info.
So, I was in the ballpark.

This whole scheme with Ring is well on the safe side of “plain view”.

Flying a drone up to your window is more like the second, and I think people would freak over that... at least now. The water our collective frog is sitting in can get warmer.
     
subego
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Aug 10, 2019, 05:43 PM
 



INTRUDER ALERT!

Miniature cow detected in sector 12.
     
Thorzdad
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Aug 13, 2019, 08:02 AM
 
When I want your opinion,-
I'll read it in your entrails
     
   
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