[ibook_steve]

I don't know where else to post that would be private enough to ask something like this of strangers to get their varied opinions (as opposed to close friends who I've exhausted with the topic), so here I am. My wife never goes to MacNN so I should be safe.

I'm 37, an engineer, and my wife is 32, soon to be 33. We've been married for 7 years. Things have been rocky at times, but we've worked things out and we're in a pretty good place right now. I'm investing in a property that she will use to help further her business, and she's been unbelievably happy about the fact that I've been willing to do this.

I'm in the reverse situation of what most couples experience: I want to have a baby (I've wanted to for ages) and my wife is...how should I put it...extremely hesitant. She has many excuses, but mostly they are fears: fear of the physical aspects of pregnancy and labor, fear of passing on some of the not so great DNA in both our families, wanting to further pursue her career (she's an artist; please don't judge; artists are awesome!), fear that I won't man up enough to take care of a child and not be lazy about it, and fear of the influence of family members (our mothers are absolute nightmares; we limit our interaction with them as much as possible). My desire to have children has been especially enhanced lately since pretty much every single couple we know has children or will soon have them, not to mention my own sister as well.

The funny thing is that my wife is fantastic with children and absolutely adores them! She actually works as a nanny. She's handled regular kids along with 3 different autistic children. We babysit occasionally for a number of friends and it always goes perfectly great.

I don't bring it up anymore with my wife because it just goes nowhere. She says eventually maybe she'll "pop out a kid" (her words). I don't want to give up on this because I think she could eventually change her mind. I just hope it's not too late (remember she is 32).

I'm looking for thoughts or opinions on my situation. Have you (as the man or the woman) been in a similar situation in your relationship? If you wanted kids and your partner didn't (or at least not yet), what did you say or do that may have changed their minds? Or did your partner just finally get the "urge?"

Any thoughts or opinions from my MacNN friends would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

[Phileas]

1. Kids change your life. To a degree nobody who doesn't have kids can possibly understand.

2. Kids need commitment. If one partner isn't, don't go there.

3. You are not your parents. If I thought I'd end up like my parents, I'd still be single, much less a dad.

4. People often use fears as excuses.

5. Kids are awesome. There's no describing the feeling of love and closeness I have when my little seven month old son grins at me.

[quesera]

My wife and I are the happy parents of an eleven year old and a 9 month old. We are 39 and 36. Our first daughter entered the world in a tumultuous time financially, career-wise, personally. etc. We managed, and eventually, thrived.

Despite our better circumstances in all those areas a decade later, the decision to have another child wasn't an easy one. My wife is legally and for all practical purposes, blind due to a degenerative and genetically-inherited condition. Her condition has gotten worse since the birth of our first daughter. We hope but will not be certain for many years that our daughters do not inherit this condition, but if they do we'll deal with it.

My wife is a successful software developer and an amazing woman and mother. It's not easy, and it never will be, but I can't imagine missing out on the joys of waking up and staring into the smiling (sometimes drooling) face of our darling baby. As our oldest grows, we are pleased with her character, her achievements, and are overwhelmed by the joy she brings into our lives, even as she approaches those difficult teenage years.

I have many regrets in my own life, opportunities passed up, relationships left to ruin, and mistakes I cannot undo. But I would never change a thing if it meant losing the joy of fatherhood.

Good luck to you both with your lives and decisions.

[olePigeon]

You could always adopt a kid, or, find a surrogate mother. In both instances she'll avoid the physical attributes that accompany child birth.

[ort888]

My wife and I both wanted kids quite a bit, but we waited, and waited, and waited... and when we were finally "ready" we found that it's not always so easy to have kids. It took us almost 2 years and a lot of heartbreak to finally get pregnant.

I suppose my point to you is that you shouldn't wait forever. If this is something you are serious about you need to act on your feelings now. The longer you wait, the more complications you and your wife will possibly encounter.

All that said, having kids is amazing. I say go for it. Just poke some holes in your condom or replace her birth control with tic tacs.

As for the fear about the actual pregnancy... it's funny... when my wife was regnant, we were so obsessed with being pregnant, and the birth, and training for a natural childbirth... but the reality of the situation is that the actual childbirth is going to happen one way or another. You will be in a hospital, surrounded by trained professionals. Blah blah blah... I don't know what my point is, but we focused way to much on the birth and not enough on our lives with a baby. The birth will happen,the whole process will last a day and then your new life will begin. There are what, 5 billion people on the earth? All of them were born. How big of a deal can it be? (Easy enough for a man to say I know...)

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Her 'fears' sound pretty standard. Being male, I can only imagine that for a woman the prospects of having a child must be incredibly scary since she has the physical responsibility of going through the pregnancy. You're probably wise not to push too hard about it. That said, you should maybe find ways to bring it up in a non-pushy way, since it's clearly important to you.

Maybe your wife feels she already has her nurturing needs met by being a nanny? I could see where coming home after dealing with someone else's kid all day, having your own may not be the greatest subject to bring up. Maybe if/when she is more focused on her art as the main career, she'll feel a lot differently? You never know.

I know it's cliche- but I think it's true when people say it's NEVER the right time. Most people probably never feel financially secure enough, they never feel its the right time in their career, they never feel they're quite ready to be parents.

My wife and I are about to have our first child much later than we thought (we're older than you and your wife- you and she still have time) because before it was never the 'right' time. We were both far too absorbed with work and other things, and I know she wrestled with many of the same fears your wife has. But if kids really are important to both of you, you both have to be open to talking about it and figure out when to throw all your fears out the window and just go for it.

Anyway, best of luck. There can't be too many blessings greater in the world than becoming parents if both really want that.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

1. Kids change your life. To a degree nobody who doesn't have kids can possibly understand.

This is important in so many ways. Holidays, finance, free time, stress etc. etc.

I love my kids dearly (3.5 and 7) but it sure is hard work. I'm not looking forward to the teenage years.

[ghporter]

Kids change everything. Everything. For a strong, well prepared couple, these changes can be extremely positive-if they make the effort.

My wife and I were married for over 7 years when we had our son. A solid marriage, plenty of self education, and lots of family support made it a wonderful experience. Being a bit afraid of bringing a new person into the world isn't paranoid, it's realistic. But the world ain't that bad, and this new person could simply be your best attempt to make the world even better.

Being a parent IS hard work if you actually work at being a parent. The only real warning I'll give is that working at being a good parent can be disappointing because you'll see so many people who do NOT even try a little. Being an exceptional parent isn't very hard because the "competition" isn't much, but being a GOOD parent is still hard work.

[OreoCookie]

Having a child (or several of them) seems to be a very big deal to you, so I think the biggest mistake you can make is to stop bringing it up! Bottling this issue up just leads to an explosion or lots of frustration later on. I also don't think it's productive being nice and understanding beyond a certain point, but better to be open and honest. This honesty to yourself and your wife will release a ton of pressure you have bottled up.

Since I'm only going by what you write, take what I say with a grain of salt. But it seems to me your wife uses her fears as a pretext. I would really pursue this topic and get to the bottom of this even if you end up having arguments. Perhaps she doesn't want children? Or she doesn't want them with you (even though she may be otherwise happy in your relationship)? For someone who ostensibly loves children, I find it very odd that this person justifies her decision not to have any of her own with fears. Once you know why, you can start dealing with it.

I've had a friend (a woman) who broke up a 7-year relationship over this topic. Even though the guy was open about it from the beginning, it started to bother her more and more until she had to decide between her wish to have a family or a relationship. She chose family and they're still very close friends today. Personally, I think there are a few topics you cannot compromise on -- and whether or not to have children is one of them. If your desire to have a family of your own is very strong, too, you may feel the same way.

Lastly, I don't think you should `work to change her mind:' first of all, I don't think this works (people only change, because they want to change) and second of all, having children is a responsibility that both parents should embrace willingly.

[andi*pandi]

I was 32 when I had my first, and 37 for the second. 37 was much harder on me physically- pregancy, work, school, and then handling a newborn. I knew what I was doing though so that made it easier. 37 wasn't my plan. It may take time for a baby to happen.

There are always fears, even when you know you want children. Know there will be pain and discomfort but if she really wants kids those aren't a deterrent. For some it's no big deal. How does she deal with a regular pain? How is her health? If she loves kids and is good with them, why the hemming and hawing? Is it the nanny factor?

Like Ort says, pains of pregnancy/childbirth are temporary, it's the baby to plan for.

[nonhuman]

I believe there was a study that showed that, regardless of what they might say, people are less happy when they have kids and only return to their previous happiness levels after the kids have left home. Something worth thinking about.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I believe there was a study that showed that, regardless of what they might say, people are less happy when they have kids and only return to their previous happiness levels after the kids have left home. Something worth thinking about.

There are a ton of conflicting studies out there. The conclusion seems to be that if you're unhappy, kids won't make you any happier; if you're happy, kids won't make you any unhappier.

What everybody does seem to agree on is that grandchildren create a measurable boost in happiness.

[ort888]

Having a baby is supposed too be scary. If you aren't scared that you will screw up you are doing it wrong.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I believe there was a study that showed that, regardless of what they might say, people are less happy when they have kids and only return to their previous happiness levels after the kids have left home. Something worth thinking about.

Seems kind of obvious that people are less able to do everything they used to after they have kids, so in that sense, personal 'happiness' will of course take a backseat to actually sacrificing and raising the kid. If someone is 21, this is probably an insurmountable issue. When they're 30-something,it's possibly much less so. Then when the kids have left home, one can presumably go back to self-indulgence again.

[MrsLarry]

My husband and I just went through a similar "should we/shouldn't we" thing. We're a little younger than you and your wife, I'm 29 and he's 32. After talking about it for a few weeks, we both came to the conclusion that "eventually" we want to have them. Strangely enough, once that was decided, "eventually" couldn't come fast enough. Just like most other things, once you have a goal set, you do everything in your power to get there. I'm dreading the terrible stuff - being pregnant, not to mention the act of getting the baby OUT of there, yikes - but can't wait for the good stuff, like snuggling and sports practice.

Plus, the older you get the harder it will be. (Not just the pregnancy, but the parenting)

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Seems kind of obvious that people are less able to do everything they used to after they have kids, so in that sense, personal 'happiness' will of course take a backseat to actually sacrificing and raising the kid. If someone is 21, this is probably an insurmountable issue. When they're 30-something,it's possibly much less so. Then when the kids have left home, one can presumably go back to self-indulgence again.

Perhaps, but the reaction that most people have when my wife and I say that we aren't planning on having kids typically is something about how happy kids make you. The next most common reaction is for them to get offended and insulted for some ridiculous reason...

[Shaddim]

We're... talking about children right now too. Sarra very much wants a baby, Kim definitely doesn't (she likes kids but doesn't want to go through childbirth), and I waffle back and forth but I think that I can now handle the thought of being a father. Long ago I didn't believe that our relationship would last this long, but it has, and in most ways it's gotten better as the years go by. So, we're at a place where we're talking about a vasectomy reversal and looking at options if that doesn't work. If things do work out the way we want it will be very interesting, especially when the child explains, "this is my dad, and these are my moms".

All I can say about your situation is that it's a decision that looks like it can take time, mostly for her to make sure that it's what she wants. She doesn't seem very committed right now and I'd hate to think what would happen if she gets pregnant, or even "pops one out", and then believes that she made a mistake. You need to have lots of conversations about this, and maybe some counseling, just don't rush it.

Edit:

Hmm, look what I said back in 2009.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

No children, and not having any. I'm so sure about this decision that I went and had a vasectomy at 24. It took a while to find a doctor who would do it, most would decline and tell me that I would change my mind.

Kids... annoy me. I can handle being around my nephew every couple weeks, and it's getting easier as he matures, but that's the extent of my parental instincts.

[andi*pandi]

heh.

[Shaddim]

So far we've got it down to:

Sarra = Mom
Kim = Amma
Me = Dude or "Hey, you!"*



*It would probably be Papa.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by MrsLarry 

I'm dreading the terrible stuff - being pregnant, not to mention the act of getting the baby OUT of there, yikes - but can't wait for the good stuff, like snuggling and sports practice.

It doesn't have to be terrible. My wife really enjoyed her pregnancy. She felt great 99% of the time and even the birth was a lot easier than anticipated. We had paid for a birth doula, which was worth every single cent. Having somebody by, and on, your side when you navigate new territory is invaluable.

[ort888]

My wife also enjoyed being pregnant. And giving birth.

[ibook_steve]

But how can I allay (or help allay) her fears? If she keeps using the fears as an excuse to not have kids, does that mean she never wants to have kids? I'm getting more and more worried that this is the case.

Steve

[ghporter]

Is your wife actually saying she's afraid of specific issues? Pain and sleep deprivation are temporary (and inevitable), but you get both of those from college, right? The world looks scary, and the task of raising a child looks daunting-that's good. A scary world makes parents careful about their children, and being daunted by the challenge of raising a child makes a parent more attentive to the task. These are appropriate concerns. Assure her of that. Ask her to consider the usefulness of these concerns, and how many people (yours truly included) have leveraged them to make better, better informed choices and raise pretty decent kids.

Then wait a while and see if she's been afraid or avoidant.

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by ibook_steve 

But how can I allay (or help allay) her fears? If she keeps using the fears as an excuse to not have kids, does that mean she never wants to have kids? I'm getting more and more worried that this is the case.

Steve

It's easier to be afraid than to tell people you don't want kids. Being a woman, there's a stigma attached to these things. You two just need to talk honestly, ask her what her real fears are, and why she feels like she needs an excuse. Good Luck!

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ibook_steve 

But how can I allay (or help allay) her fears?

In your first post, you write she uses her fears as excuses. If that is indeed the case, it's not even the right question to ask.

Originally Posted by ibook_steve 

If she keeps using the fears as an excuse to not have kids, does that mean she never wants to have kids? I'm getting more and more worried that this is the case.

That sounds like a plausible reason. Or perhaps she wants to have kids, but her intuition tells her that your home `isn't a good nest' (yet). Either way, she knows it'll be a big problem in your relationship, so she puts off telling you the truth for as long as she can, because she knows it'll be a big blow to your relationship and she's afraid of losing you. In either case, getting to the bottom of this probably won't be easy or pleasant.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by MrsLarry 

I'm dreading the terrible stuff - being pregnant, not to mention the act of getting the baby OUT of there, yikes - but can't wait for the good stuff, like snuggling and sports practice.

There's a good chance you've got it backwards.

Pregnancy was great and tremendously exciting, except for the last two or so weeks, where she really didn't know how to lie down without some discomfort.

The birth was literally the most awesome event either of us is ever going to witness. I don't think you could get my wife to ever call it "terrible" in the least. We were at a private birth center, though, so we had all the time in the world and very relaxed and comfortable surroundings.

The cuddliness and sports stuff is largely a question of personality. That might happen, or it might not. You certainly can't *make* it happen - not without ****ing up your kids.

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

There's a good chance you've got it backwards.

Funny... it's not the first time I've heard that. So weird, I'm not particularly afraid of being a parent, but pregnancy and childbirth scare the bejesus out of me.

[Phileas]

I was never worried about the pregnancy and birth itself*; correctly, as it turned out. Our experience was similar to Spheric's. Great pregnancy, easy birth in a very supportive environment.

It's me ****ing up my kid that scares the hell out of me. I did not have the best possible role model myself - a pretty crappy one to tell the truth - so I am really paranoid to drop the ball in a way that my own father did. So far my solution has been to shower the little man with love**, which is resulting in a happy, communicative and active baby.


* Easy for a guy to say, I know, but a feeling shared by my wife.
**Love ≠ no boundaries

[Spheric Harlot]

A wise man told me that the best parents are the average ones.

I try to live by that.

Originally Posted by Phileas 

It's me ****ing up my kid that scares the hell out of me. I did not have the best possible role model myself - a pretty crappy one to tell the truth - so I am really paranoid to drop the ball in a way that my own father did. So far my solution has been to shower the little man with love**, which is resulting in a happy, communicative and active baby.

That's pretty much it. As you said, it doesn't mean no boundaries, and it doesn't mean spoil them. The best thing you can spend on your children is your time.

[andi*pandi]

[finboy]

Originally Posted by hayesk 

That's pretty much it. As you said, it doesn't mean no boundaries, and it doesn't mean spoil them. The best thing you can spend on your children is your time.

Yup. And you're going to find that THAT is hard enough to do when you have kids.

To the OP:
SHE needs to be committed to this, above all, because SHE will ultimately take the most risk and bear the highest cost. And YOU will hear about ALL of it. Even if you're the most supportive dad in the whole world, there are a bunch of things that you CAN'T DO. So make absotively sure she's on board.

If she's an artist, though, I can't imagine that she'd run from the opportunity to learn so much through the uncertainty and angst of child-rearing.

Oh, and the sooner the better. Really.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

It's been less than a day and I'm already sick of this meme.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I don't get it.

[andi*pandi]

Ah, I was just looking for an excuse to post. He's nodding knowingly and contemplatively.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

A wise man told me that the best parents are the average ones.

I try to live by that.

Do you have to try hard to be avg. ?

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

So far my solution has been to shower the little man with love**, which is resulting in a happy, communicative and active baby.

I don't get the connection between you showering your little man with love, and the baby. Please explain.

-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Do you have to try hard to be avg. ?

It's not so easy to stop trying too hard.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

It's not so easy to stop trying too hard.

Very, very true. You will want to help your child do everything wonderfully-which does NOT help the child learn how to do things independently. Backing off is hard work.

[ThinkInsane]

Don't get a baby. It's like a pet that back talks ya and then you have to put it through college. Get a puppy instead.

[ibook_steve]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

Don't get a baby. It's like a pet that back talks ya and then you have to put it through college. Get a puppy instead.

Already did that. His name is Tiny and he's a 6 pound Chihuahua!

My wife adores the dog. I do too though he can be a little bitey. Hopefully, if we had a baby, he/she wouldn't be like that.

Steve

[olePigeon]

It's the dog or the baby. I'm not being funny. It's dangerous to have pets around an infant, especially small aggressive dogs. Your best option is to find a family member or friend to take care of your dog for a couple years.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

It's the dog or the baby. I'm not being funny. It's dangerous to have pets around an infant, especially small aggressive dogs. Your best option is to find a family member or friend to take care of your dog for a couple years.

Gotta agree with this one. Cats too.

I used to have a cat that would sleep on my head occasionally - not something you want around babies.

[Phileas]

Not trying to make light of legitimate concerns, but we have three cats and a baby with zero issues.

Cats are very much pecking order aware and we made it very clear from the beginning that the baby is above them. One of the two toms in particular has taken it upon him to be care-giver cat. He watches over the baby like a hawk, purring at him when he cries, or even coming to get my wife or myself if the baby has woken up without us noticing.

[The Final Dakar]

This talk of not being able to have pets and babies coexist makes me think about the supposed pussification of America. C'mon people, how many of us were born into homes with pets?

[SpaceMonkey]

Competition begets progress. You need to double-dog-dare your wife to have a kid, and/or enter into a competition with Laminar to see whose wife pops out a baby first.

Disclaimer: I do not have kids.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

This talk of not being able to have pets and babies coexist makes me think about the supposed pussification of America. C'mon people, how many of us were born into homes with pets?

Louisiana Police: Pit Bull Puppy Chewed Off Baby's Toes While Parents Slept - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

Pitbull thread....GO!

[The Final Dakar]

Funny enough, I actually thought of that after the post. But remember, the failing there isn't that its a pet, its that its a pit bull.

[olePigeon]

My brother has a small mutt Chihuahua mix thing, and they had to give it to my mom because it kept biting their baby. It's not just pit bulls.

[andi*pandi]

Know your pets.

Our cats were fine with the baby. Well, after their first week phreakout peeathon. (ugh).

Then they realized their choice was to run away from the baby, until she got old enough to pet nicely and give treats.