[legacyb4]

It's out on the FTP site.

Feels much smoother on Windows (will have to test on my Mac when I get home...)

[Weyland-Yutani]

There is only mention of Firefox 1.5 RC3 for OS X on the Mozilla website. No mention of 1.5 anywhere.

cheers

W-Y

[TheoCryst]

True, but check out the FTP site:

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.o.../releases/1.5/

From there, you can choose between Mac, Win32, Linux, etc. Note that I have yet to try it out myself. I'm on a library computer on campus, and downloading/installing anything just doesn't work. When I get home I'll edit this and post my impressions of the Windows version.

[CharlesS]

Cool, thanks for the heads up.

[wataru]

I've been running the 1.5 release candidates for a while, and they're solid.

As always, fancy things up with Aronnax's themes and Firefoxy.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by TheoCryst

True, but check out the FTP site:

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.o.../releases/1.5/

From there, you can choose between Mac, Win32, Linux, etc. Note that I have yet to try it out myself. I'm on a library computer on campus, and downloading/installing anything just doesn't work. When I get home I'll edit this and post my impressions of the Windows version.

Indeed, strange that there is a Spanish version in the release folder but no Spanish version for the RC3. In fact there is only the English version available for RC3.

Anyway I'm not jumping on this new Firefox release just yet. I use Safari and I'm going to wait and see how this release is received. Somehow I doubt it is any more Mac-like than the releases before but one can hope.

cheers

W-Y

[Eug Wanker]

Yup, it's the actual release version. 1.5, not 1.5R3, with a date of Nov. 28 on the file.

[Eug Wanker]

Infoburp!

P.S. The Windows version is the release 1.5 version too.

P.P.S. Here are the changes:

Automated update to streamline product upgrades
Faster browser navigation with improvements to back and forward button performance
Drag and drop reordering for browser tabs
Improvements to popup blocking
Clear Private Data feature provides an easy way to quickly remove personal data through a menu item or keyboard shortcut
Answers.com is added to the search engine list
Improvements to product usability including descriptive error pages, redesigned options menu, RSS discovery, and "Safe Mode" experience
Better accessibility including support for DHTML accessibility and assistive technologies such as the Window-Eyes 5.5 beta screen reader for Microsoft Windows. Screen readers read aloud all available information in applications and documents or show the i
Report a broken Web site wizard to report Web sites that are not working in Firefox
Better support for Mac OS X (10.2 and greater) including profile migration from Safari and Mac Internet Explorer
New support for Web Standards including SVG, CSS 2 and CSS 3, and JavaScript 1.6
Many security enhancements

[Stephen-I-Am]

Middle mouse clicking now opens links in a new tab! I've been looking forward to that.

Anyone know how to make realplayer (.smil extension for sites like NPR, I think) work nicely with firefox? In the past it has left a file on the desktop.

Stephen

[gdw-mac]

Tryed to DL it, but all I get is a window that pops up with a bunch of crazy charectors on it. Any help to DL this file.

George

[mikemako]

mozilla.com is new and improved and has Mozilla 1.5 available for Windows.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by gdw-mac

Tryed to DL it, but all I get is a window that pops up with a bunch of crazy charectors on it. Any help to DL this file.

Option-Click on the link. The file will be saved as an .html file. Change that file to a .dmg file.

They really need to fix this. I wonder if posting it as a .zip would help.

[legacyb4]

I love that plus the ability to move tabs around. Very slick....

Originally Posted by Stephen-I-Am

Middle mouse clicking now opens links in a new tab! I've been looking forward to that.

Anyone know how to make realplayer (.smil extension for sites like NPR, I think) work nicely with firefox? In the past it has left a file on the desktop.

Stephen

[legacyb4]

I love that plus the ability to shift tabs around...

Originally Posted by Stephen-I-Am

Middle mouse clicking now opens links in a new tab! I've been looking forward to that.

Anyone know how to make realplayer (.smil extension for sites like NPR, I think) work nicely with firefox? In the past it has left a file on the desktop.

Stephen

[alphasubzero949]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Option-Click on the link. The file will be saved as an .html file. Change that file to a .dmg file.

They really need to fix this. I wonder if posting it as a .zip would help.

Works fine if you download from FireFox itself.

[Weyland-Yutani]

OK downloaded and installed. No problems downloading with Safari. Two questions:

Why does the interface in the preferences not fit the window AND why are the tabs Mac OS 10.2 (and earlier) style? Didn't the Firefox team get the memo *two* years back when 10.3 was published that tabs were out?

[NO HUGE INLINE IMAGES --tooki]

Very un-Mac like unfortunately. No surprises there. Other than that it seems like a solid update and surfing feels smooth. Firefox fails the Acid 2 test. No system-wide spelling or other Mac OS perks.

Other than its usual un-Mac like look & feel it seems passable with a smooth rendering engine and fast too. It is a fairly made browser but a second-class port to the Mac.

cheers

W-Y

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

Works fine if you download from FireFox itself.

Still doesn't work.

At least with the ftp site you can OPTION-CLICK to download it. From the main site I can't download it all. I just get that jibberish. OPTION-CLICK doesn't work since the link they provide is just a webpage that forwards to the file.

[Thinine]

They don't have their web server setup to properly handle .dmg files, so that's why you're seeing jibberish.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Thinine

They don't have their web server setup to properly handle .dmg files, so that's why you're seeing jibberish.

Downloading from the front page worked just fine for me using Safari. Got a .dmg file and all. Perhaps the ftp server is set up differently.

cheers

W-Y

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949

Works fine if you download from FireFox itself.

I misread your post last time. Yes if you download from Firefox (the app), it works fine.

However, you can't download from Firefox if you're trying to download Firefox for the first time to install it.

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Downloading from the front page worked just fine for me using Safari. Got a .dmg file and all. Perhaps the ftp server is set up differently.

Doesn't work for me, from Safari, either from the ftp server or the front page. However, from the ftp server you can use the OPTION-CLICK option.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Doesn't work for me, from Safari, either from the ftp server or the front page. However, from the ftp server you can use the OPTION-CLICK option.

Strange



cheers

W-Y

[wataru]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Why does the interface in the preferences not fit the window

Because the Spanish strings are too long and the interface elements apparently don't auto-resize. Certainly a big oversight.

why are the tabs Mac OS 10.2 (and earlier) style? Didn't the Firefox team get the memo *two* years back when 10.3 was published that tabs were out?

Who freakin' cares? And since Firefox runs on 10.2 as well, it's going to look out-of-place on something no matter what.

Very un-Mac like unfortunately.

Unfortunately, none of the "Mac-like" browsers offer the same breadth of functionality as Firefox.

Firefox fails the Acid 2 test.

We already knew that. The rendering system was frozen for 1.5 before Acid2 came out.

No system-wide spelling or other Mac OS perks.

Learn how to spell.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Thank you for answering my questions wataru, although some of your replies could have been nicer

Originally Posted by wataru

Because the Spanish strings are too long and the interface elements apparently don't auto-resize. Certainly a big oversight.

Yes, that's what I suspected. Strange since the Spanish localization has been there throughout testing. I'm sure it will be fixed, but it is certainly annoying as it is.

Originally Posted by wataru

Who freakin' cares? And since Firefox runs on 10.2 as well, it's going to look out-of-place on something no matter what.

I care, that's why I mentioned it. Almost nobody runs 10.2 today and since the tabs in the Firefox preferences are a fairly recent addition one would have assumed that they'd choose the 10.3 and later tabs, no? Frankly it seems very Microsoftish to make an interface oversight like that.

Originally Posted by wataru

Unfortunately, none of the "Mac-like" browsers offer the same breadth of functionality as Firefox.

That may be true, I don't know but browser like OMNIWeb and Opera are quite customizable as well. Camino is also very robust and Safari offers all the basic functionalities. Features are nice but one has to be able to look at the thing without wincing as well.

Originally Posted by wataru

We already knew that. The rendering system was frozen for 1.5 before Acid2 came out.

Still, worth mentioning in a mini review since it is relevant to the browser's performance and rendering.

Originally Posted by wataru

Learn how to spell.

Spellchecking is just one of the many services not available in Firefox. Dictionary, Mail, 3rd party services and the rest are missing too. Firefox feels like a second rate Mac conversion, that's all. I use it without hesitation on Linux and Windows, but on the Mac, no. Not yet, not until it feels like a Mac app and works with the OS like other proper apps. One of the major benefits of the Mac OS is the integration between apps and the OS. Firefox ignores systemwide settings like proxies and startpage so one has to change that within the browser when moving between locations. It becomes annoying.

cheers

W-Y

[Eug Wanker]

I don't fault them for not using all the services in OS X. It's a cross-platform app and they are trying to keep it consistent after all.

While I don't think it's a perfect app and not completely Mac-like in many ways, I do think overall it's an excellent program. I congratulate the Firefox developers for a job well done.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

Thank you for answering my questions wataru, although some of your replies could have been nicer

Wataru is a Firefox-zealot. He always freaks out when someone likes another browser better.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I don't fault them for not using all the services in OS X. It's a cross-platform app and they are trying to keep it consistent after all.

An application of the lowest common denominator is crap on all platforms. And a lot of people use one platform exclusively, so consistency between platforms means nothing to them (and honestly – do you think Services-support would confuse a Windows-person if he used the Mac-Firefox?)

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I don't fault them for not using all the services in OS X. It's a cross-platform app and they are trying to keep it consistent after all.

Pardon my ignorance, but does Firefox use *any* OS X service? Perhaps I haven't noticed it but it seems to me that they must be very few indeed.

@TETENAL

Yes, his reputation precedes him. That is why I don't take his potshots personally.

cheers

W-Y

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

An application of the lowest common denominator is crap on all platforms.

Not. Firefox is an excellent program on all platforms. Just because it doesn't use the mail service or the US spell check or whatever doesn't bother me at all.

[wataru]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Wataru is a Firefox-zealot. He always freaks out when someone likes another browser better.

Wrong. I just have no patience for Cocoa zealots and other people who prioritize vagueries like being "Mac-like" above features. If there's another browser out there that has everything Firefox has (specifically its extensibility) and is "Mac-like," however you want to define that, then fine, that's a better browser. Too bad such a browser doesn't exist right now.

I don't care if you like another browser better, no matter what your reasons. But I will feel free to make fun of those reasons if they are stupid, such as "you can't drag windows while the preferences sheet is open" or "the widgets are ugly."

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by wataru

...and other people who prioritize vagueries like being "Mac-like" above features.

Being Mac-like *is* a feature. One that is missing in Firefox. Cocoa has nothing to do with it, many carbon apps support services and other system features just fine.

If you don't know what Mac-like means, it means seamless integration with the OS - which happens to be the Mac OS in this case. That means both in appearance and with features.

A Windows-like app would integrate well with Windows in the same manner. iTunes on Windows is probably an example of an app that is not Windows-like.

Regardless, this is an important feature for many people and the reason that they chose the Macintosh to begin with. The Mac is a certain user experience and most people who buy Macs buy them because of that experience.

If anyone remembers Word 6.0 for the Mac, it was bashed repeatedly at its release and forever after because it was so un-Mac-like. Yet it looked alost exactly like Word 6.0 for the Windows platform. Microsoft took note of this. The Mac users didn't just want the same app, they wanted the same app *with* a Mac-like interface and integration with the OS.

This is something the Firefox team seems to disregard for features. Perhaps Firefox is the best browser for Windows and Linux and the best browser on the Mac for geeks. Those who care more about obscure features and endless customization over look and feel combined elegantly with features. i.e. a Macintosh-like experience.

cheers

W-Y

[madmacgames]

Stay away for the time being if you run OS X 10.3.9. There is a serious issue with drop down menus in 10.3.9 that's been reported on bugzilla for a few months now, but nobody has really bothered to look into it until today after 1.5 was released, finally somebody was assigned to it and it was changed to a major bug. Hopefully a fix will make the next minor release.

Unfortunately it pretty much makes all variations, including the final release, of 1.5 useless on most modern websites, so if you're on 10.3.9, it is wise to stay with Firefox 1.0.7 for now

[Eug Wanker]

W-Y,

I think you're blowing it out of proportion. Firefox is a free app, and it's way better than many "Mac-like" apps out there in terms of overall usability and functionality despite being free.

Firefox hasn't disregarded features. It simply has chosen to go its own direction. And considering the inconsistencies in Apple's own software, it looks like it's in good company.

Do I think Firefox is perfect? No. Nonetheless, I think it's very good and a great option for Mac users, and really one of the very few good options out there that doesn't cost the end user anything.

The biggest problem with Firefox IMO right now is the borked downloads.

--

NB: I haven't encountered the problem madmacgames refers to. What is it exactly? It sounds significant. However, all of my computers run Tiger so it doesn't concern me really. Fortunately for the 10.3.9 users, Firefox 1.0 is still available, and that's a good program in its own right too.

[madmacgames]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

NB: I haven't encountered the problem madmacgames refers to. What is it exactly? It sounds significant.

Yeah it is. Under certain conditions like javascript placed in certain areas or drop downs on some layers, they stop working. Sometimes they only half popup, and sometimes they won't open at all. You can see it in Gmail, on eBays sidebar search filters, and on many other websites.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by wataru

Wrong. I just have no patience for Cocoa zealots and other people who prioritize vagueries like being "Mac-like" above features.

Features? A plural? You mean feature, because the one feature you're thinking of is the extensions. If you use that feature, great! Some of us don't use that feature, so we don't need it (and the potential security vulnerabilities associated with it), and then other features (Mac-like interface, Dictionary, spell check, SnapBack, Services, etc.) become more important. Different people have different needs. Why do you have such a hard time understanding this?

Regardless, Firefox 1.5 is a really nice improvement to Firefox. I like the movable tabs - up until now, the only browser that could do that was Shiira. Let's keep this on topic, okay?

[- - e r i k - -]

What, prey-tell, is it that Firefox can offer me that a Safari + Saft + WebDeveloperMenu combo can't? I'm honestly curious here.

[ghporter]

Plugins, called "extensions" that provide a bunch of functions I haven't seen available for Safari. And I have problems with some sites under Safari that work just fine with Firefox. Further, since I have to work with a number of platforms, a cross-platform browser is a very nice thing.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by wataru

The rendering system was frozen for 1.5 before Acid2 came out.

What do you mean? That they have made Gecko Acid2 compatible but that didn't get into FF 1.5 or that Gecko for FF 1.5 was frozen before the Acid2 test came out?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

What, prey-tell, is it that Firefox can offer me that a Safari + Saft + WebDeveloperMenu combo can't? I'm honestly curious here.

I can't live with Safari alone. Some sites simply don't work with it. 98% of the time, those sites work fine with Firefox.

Thus, I use Safari most of the time, and Firefox as my backup. (I also keep IE around because my GF likes it.)

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Plugins, called "extensions" that provide a bunch of functions I haven't seen available for Safari. And I have problems with some sites under Safari that work just fine with Firefox. Further, since I have to work with a number of platforms, a cross-platform browser is a very nice thing.

I was looking for specific examples. Safari supports plugins too as you would know (admittedly not as nice implementation as Firefox).

I have yet to run into sites that do not work in Safari. My banking site used a certificate that I could only download in Firefox, but I could copy it into the keychain to make it work with Safari too. Any other examples of sites not working in Safari?

I have FF of course, but for compatability checking only (being a web developer).

[Eug Wanker]

A few of the travel/ticket booking sites don't consistently work with Safari. The worst part is that it sometimes doesn't manifest its incompatibility until you're part way into the booking process. Very irritating. Last I checked was a couple of months ago though.

Also, some of the older routers' web configuration functionality didn't work with Safari, but for all my current stuff it works fine.

[wataru]

Originally Posted by JLL

What do you mean? That they have made Gecko Acid2 compatible but that didn't get into FF 1.5 or that Gecko for FF 1.5 was frozen before the Acid2 test came out?

Gecko 1.8 was either done or nearly done when Acid2 came out. Apparently the Acid2 fixes are quite involved, so there was no way to just sneak that in there. Firefox 1.5 was targeted for Gecko 1.8, so it was never going to happen for this release.

I don't know if they're planning to deal with Acid2 in Gecko 1.9 or not. I'm looking for some sort of official announcement about it.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

If you don't know what Mac-like means, it means seamless integration with the OS - which happens to be the Mac OS in this case. That means both in appearance and with features.

(…)

Regardless, this is an important feature for many people and the reason that they chose the Macintosh to begin with. The Mac is a certain user experience and most people who buy Macs buy them because of that experience.

(…)

If anyone remembers Word 6.0 for the Mac, it was bashed repeatedly at its release and forever after because it was so un-Mac-like. Yet it looked alost exactly like Word 6.0 for the Windows platform. Microsoft took note of this. The Mac users didn't just want the same app, they wanted the same app *with* a Mac-like interface and integration with the OS.

(…)

This is something the Firefox team seems to disregard for features. Perhaps Firefox is the best browser for Windows and Linux and the best browser on the Mac for geeks. Those who care more about obscure features and endless customization over look and feel combined elegantly with features. i.e. a Macintosh-like experience.

cheers

W-Y

Agree, I dont want to blame firefox, but I want the Mac look & feel, I have tried Firefox, I find it something like to place an ugly after-market stereo inside a Mercedes replacing the original (from factory) Mercedes gives to you with the car. It just doesn't match.

[madmacgames]

I haven't ran into a single website that does not work with Safari for about a year now, unless it was specifically designed to only work with certain browsers, and well, that isn't Safari's fault, now is it?

[P]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

If anyone remembers Word 6.0 for the Mac, it was bashed repeatedly at its release and forever after because it was so un-Mac-like. Yet it looked alost exactly like Word 6.0 for the Windows platform. Microsoft took note of this. The Mac users didn't just want the same app, they wanted the same app *with* a Mac-like interface and integration with the OS.

I think it's important to note that Windows users also detested Word 6. MS held an apology tour for it, with the managers for both the Mac and Windows versions. The only difference was Word 95 and Word 97 which were much better and came quite soon after for Windows, while we Mac users had to wait for Word 98 until we got a half-way decent version.

[P]

Originally Posted by Stephen-I-Am

Middle mouse clicking now opens links in a new tab! I've been looking forward to that.

Didn't they always? I think they did, but it may have been my hacking in USB Overdrive.

[TheIceMan]

Anyone else getting this message after trying to install FireFox for OS X?

"Sorry, the operation could not be completed because an unexpected error occurred (Error code -42)."

Update: Ok, nevermind. I think it's corrected now. Yeah, I'm going back to Safari. The user interface is very un-Maclike for me.

[ghporter]

I just updated on my PC, and it went very well. Except of course that a number of my extensions don't support 1.5... Cest la vie!

[- - e r i k - -]

I'm still waiting for specific examples of features in plugins Firefox support, that's not found in plugins for Safari. The best example I've heard so far is BugMeNot, which is nice convenience but hardly a dealbreaker when choosing browser.

[ghporter]

I won't say any of the extensions sold me on Firefox, but the fact that I can use the same browser on a number of platforms sure does make my life easier-and as I noted, there are some sites that just don't like Safari...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by madmacgames

I haven't ran into a single website that does not work with Safari for about a year now, unless it was specifically designed to only work with certain browsers, and well, that isn't Safari's fault, now is it?

I don't care if it's Safari's fault or not. If a site doesn't work with Safari, it doesn't work with Safari. Thus, I have to use something else. And for me, that something else is Firefox.